$700 Best-Value Gaming PC Build Guide (Jun 2020)

[crazyeyesreaper]

True, but you won't find a Pure Power 10 anywhere anymore, it's EOL for more then 1,5 year.

Great, maybe also at the maximum power consumption of the PC and/or components so that people won't think that they need a higher wattage PSU. Otherwise they just gonna buy something like a EVGA BT 600W or other double forward PSU with group regulations.


I don't know which memory chips they use for this kit? Did you checked this?

The problem isn't overclocking, it's with XMP profiles on 3000MT/s and 3200MT/s with Corsair Vengeance.

Horse has been beaten enough. I got high end sticks here that are from Crucial that cant even do XMP stable. Yet I got corsair sticks that do just fine. silicon lottery. Hell i think i still have a couple sticks of the Samsung wonder DDR3 memory laying around somewhere not that it matters realistically but they didnt clock for shit. Yet another set I sold clocked really well. I have had good luck with Mushkin back in the day too. Win some lose some in that regard.

Eitherway i have been up for going on nearly 40 hours worked an 8 hr shift, spent 5 hours helping best friend do demo work on his new house and then from 9 pm last night till now ie 6 am have been doing review and article work. I am going to enter a minor coma. You guys can discuss the finer points amongst yourselfs

 

[tvamos]

I'm going to say that the RAM is a poor choice as Ryzen has a lot of problems with the corsair LPX sticks, I've been there with a first gen Ryzen system and some 3200MHz that could never run at the rated speeds without some instability

Same here, my best shot was 3066mhz

 

[msroadkill612]

What a lot of pixels are spilled over PSUs?

Here we have a budget so tight, that saving $20 & getting 8GB is a real option. Yet god forbid it seems, that a reasonable quality used psu should be considered (yeah - its a new build, but used options come up in posts)?

are older PSUs really so bad?

are new psuS really significantly better?

Nobody facing these tough choices cares more about a bit of efficiency or extra clocks he cant afford to cool anyway.

 

[springs113]

Am I missing something here? I thought this system was supposed to be $700.

 

[jabbadap]

Am I missing something here? I thought this system was supposed to be $700.

Quite so. 740€ VAT19 -> 621.85€ VAT0 -> $701.76

Edit: Albeit I would build ~$700 build around this, r5 1600AF ipc is kinda bad for gaming.

 

[-The_Mask-]

What a lot of pixels are spilled over PSUs?

The PSU is the most important and most underrated component.

 

[Taraquin]

Well i have 3x Crucial Ballistics kits sitting here rated at 3466 Mhz and guess what? they cant even run XMP stable tested on 2x 8700K systems / 9900k system and a Ryzen 3600 just for shits and giggles. Every vendor has good or bad and many times its luck of the draw. 2x 8GB kits x2 and 1x 32 GB (4 x 8 GB) and they all exhibit the same behavior. No voltage changes, timing changes has made them stable at 3466. But they will do 3200 just fine. So I will just leave it at that.

Edit: at first i figured it was just the IMC on my personal CPU was weak but haven't had any luck with the sticks in ANY system thus far beyond 3200 MHz. So my experience tells me that while they may work great for others (including Black Haru who has reviewed them here at TPU) my luck hasn't been nearly as good.

That said the Team Group kit linked above is the same as Black Haru reviewed and he managed 3733 MHz at 16-18-18-38.

But again at this point we are splitting hairs. Realistically look at the person who needs a blueprint to get started from ie this article do you really honestly think those just getting their feet wet with no real idea to start are gonna be messing with system memory? Some people enjoy it the rest just want to have a system that works and to play there games.

With a 5700 XT being over 40% faster than a 1660 Super yeah i can see memory tinkering being a worthwhile option but even then the majority of users aren't going to push things that far. When they do they typically wind up on forums like TPU asking why the 2666 MHz kit they were recommending isnt stable at 3200 CL w.e that they saw elsewhere. Something to keep in mind.

Was it the 3000cl15 or 3200cl16 kit? Sound strange, I have tested several kits and they all to 3733cl15. There are many ballistix kits, but only the 3000cl15, 3200cl16, 3600 and 4000 are E-die. Thing with Corsair vengeance is that they are often Hynix AFR, but you can be lucky and get Hynix CJR og even Samsung B-die.

 

[NOTELLN]

You now amateur this build looks when you don't even talk about CAS latency timings for memory? Especially when it comes to a Ryzen build and the limitations of the infinity fabric. Quality memory makes a big difference in performance and your casual approach is typical of those who just do not appreciate its importance on the AM4 platform.

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

You now amateur this build looks when you don't even talk about CAS latency timings for memory? Especially when it comes to a Ryzen build and the limitations of the infinity fabric. Quality memory makes a big difference in performance and your casual approach is typical of those who just do not appreciate its importance on the AM4 platform.

ANother troll joined to post once then disappear congrats i guess?

If people read the article its never meant to be the end all be all this is what you should by its a jumping off point for those that don't know where to start. But I suppose when your a troll there is not enough brain cells left to rub together to figure that out.

 

[msroadkill612]

The PSU is the most important and most underrated component.

yep, thats the mantra, but why?

when i hear reasons, the ones i hear seem lame - re overclocking/a few watts of efficiency/...

simple question:

what has happened that is so new in PSUs over the last ~decade, that a new PSU is mandatory on a modern rig? Has there been a major advance in the basics of power converting?

 

[NOTELLN]

ANother troll joined to post once then disappear congrats i guess?

If people read the article its never meant to be the end all be all this is what you should by its a jumping off point for those that don't know where to start. But I suppose when your a troll there is not enough brain cells left to rub together to figure that out.

Then

ANother troll joined to post once then disappear congrats i guess?

If people read the article its never meant to be the end all be all this is what you should by its a jumping off point for those that don't know where to start. But I suppose when your a troll there is not enough brain cells left to rub together to figure that out.

If a so called expert, does not even mention CAS timings or the importance of memory on an AMD system, then he has no clue. Memory is critical on the Infinity Fabric. But, I see you no as little as the author.

 

[londiste]

If a so called expert, does not even mention CAS timings or the importance of memory on an AMD system, then he has no clue. Memory is critical on the Infinity Fabric. But, I see you no as little as the author.

Memory frequency is critical for Infinity Fabric, timings are absolutely not.

 

[Readlight]

I can build one faster from 3 computers.

 

[RandallFlagg]

That's an $830-$840 build in USD right now.

 

[kapone32]

The PSU is the most important and most underrated component.

There are a couple of Motherboards that would like to comment on your post.

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

That's an $830-$840 build in USD right now.

Few posts above I literally did a PCpartpicker list around $740. or 744 I am to lazy to look. But yeah generally speaking prices are climbing due to COVID-19 disruptions in supply chains. Europe is far less affected. I mean hell state side finding a decent PSU for sub $70 is a stretch. (can get lucky day to day but typically all i can is good luck when those same units were $45-55 a month or two ago.

As for the troll, Yup lets focus on diminished returns and less important items on a system that is entry level with an article targeted at someone just getting started. The fact is a first time builder should probably focus on BUILDING a system before getting into nitty gritty details such as memory timings which if you don't pay attention or don't know what your doing results in an unstable system, bsods and more. Tools for dialing in memory on Ryzen work wonderfully but they are not an end all be all. Seen even Safe settings fail on a regular basis. So with that in mind I would worry more about memory and speeds on a 3000 series Ryzen like the 3600 than I would 1600 AF / 2600. Where the differences are smaller, that said the system in the article is equipped with CL16-18-18-38 3200 MHz DDR4.

As such its already operating near peak for the Ryzen 2000 series processors which the 1600 AF is based on. Even DDR4 3000 MHz gets you 95% of the way to peak performance. But I am sure everyone here that is more knowledgeable than me likely already knows that right? Also that typically matters more when your not GPU LIMITED the system has a 1660 Ti not a 2080 Super or 2080 Ti or 5700 XT etc where the GPU can push more frames than the CPU would typically allow at which point better memory then makes sense.

Multiple reviews show huge gains when using higher end GPUs and CPUs with more room to stretch their legs so to speak. But generally if your maxing out a games settings and getting 60-80 FPS on a mid range GPU the difference will be minimal.

Example W1zz's review of the 2600 with a 1080 Ti which is way faster than a 1660 Ti showed frame rates in say The Witcher 3 at max settings around 130 FPS a 1660 Ti is only going to deliver around 80 FPS. Meaning its well below the CPUs max performance. While squeezing out every drop of memory performance will up the minimum FPS its not going to make as big a difference. Again using a higher tier GPU sure go for it. But with this particular build the memory and timings while beneficial are not the real limiter of performance here.

Hellblade a game thats typically CPU bound. on a 1080 Ti the Ryzen 2600 was hitting around 120 FPS, with a 1660 Ti its holding out around 80 FPS. Again while performance goes up but with this particular GPU combination your gonna hit the wall in regards to GPU performance more often than you do CPU unless doing esports titles or your a CSGO lover that cranks everything down to low.

 

[RandallFlagg]

Few posts above I literally did a PCpartpicker list around $740. or 744 I am to lazy to look. But yeah generally speaking prices are climbing due to COVID-19 disruptions in supply chains. Europe is far less affected. I mean hell state side finding a decent PSU for sub $70 is a stretch. (can get lucky day to day but typically all i can is good luck when those same units were $45-55 a month or two ago.

I'm just saying the exchange rate right now for 740 euro is ~830-840 USD. Inflated prices due to lack of availability would be on top of that. I just ordered parts for a new rig though, and the price gouging is primarily on PSU, GPU, and Intel CPUs. ESP PSU. PSU prices are bonkers. Also AMD 550 boards are gouging but that is normal right after a release.

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

I'm just saying the exchange rate right now for 740 euro is ~830-840 USD. Inflated prices due to lack of availability would be on top of that. I just ordered parts for a new rig though, and the price gouging is primarily on PSU, GPU, and Intel CPUs. ESP PSU. PSU prices are bonkers. Also AMD 550 boards are gouging but that is normal right after a release.

roughly same parts/ same specs at the very least the above build in euros can be had for roughly the same price but as you noted PSU choice sucks. I had to use a Rosewill ARC good efficiency but not my first choice by far to make it work.

 

[-The_Mask-]

yep, thats the mantra, but why?

Unstable power supplies will shorten the life of other components significant.

what has happened that is so new in PSUs over the last ~decade, that a new PSU is mandatory on a modern rig? Has there been a major advance in the basics of power converting?

It just depends on the PSU you have. Around 10 years ago the first consumer high-end LLC resonant + SR + DC-DC power supplies came on the market. If you have such a PSU and a high quality one which can last more then 10 years it should still be OK to use today in a modern PC. However most power supplies aren't that good. They use older more unstable designs which can shorten the life of other components, can give you a lot of coil whine or just makes the PC unstable. Also if the quality isn't that high, you can also have a PSU with failed caps. If the capacitors are failed the PSU will have extreme high ripple which will shorten the life of your components by a lot. You can kill your hardware in a couple of months that way.

 

[msroadkill612]

Unstable power supplies will shorten the life of other components significant.

It just depends on the PSU you have. Around 10 years ago the first consumer high-end LLC resonant + SR + DC-DC power supplies came on the market. If you have such a PSU and a high quality one which can last more then 10 years it should still be OK to use today in a modern PC. However most power supplies aren't that good. They use older more unstable designs which can shorten the life of other components, can give you a lot of coil whine or just makes the PC unstable. Also if the quality isn't that high, you can also have a PSU with failed caps. If the capacitors are failed the PSU will have extreme high ripple which will shorten the life of your components by a lot. You can kill your hardware in a couple of months that way.

I feel bad taking so long to thank you for your reply.

i shall explore those terms & heed ur words.

i have 3x amd apuS i am building. no dgpu & a 95w a10 kaveri 7850k

i have old upmarket desktops w/ psuS from that era - nec/hp etc.

.... w/ psuS w/ 200w on the 12v rail (adequate), & have had easy lives

i think i could discern cheap/poor quality psuS

i just thought i could recycle & save - psuS are hard to get atm also. Oh well.

Memory frequency is critical for Infinity Fabric, timings are absolutely not.

False IMO.

 

[-The_Mask-]

i have old upmarket desktops w/ psuS from that era - nec/hp etc.

.... w/ psuS w/ 200w on the 12v rail (adequate), & have had easy lives

i think i could discern cheap/poor quality psuS

i just thought i could recycle & save - psuS are hard to get atm also. Oh well.

Most likely not a bad PSU no, but probably also not a good one either. Otherwise maybe wait for the PSU's to get available again.

 

[londiste]

Memory frequency is critical for Infinity Fabric, timings are absolutely not.

False IMO.

Source?

 

[msroadkill612]

Source?

your false claim, let alone "absolute". The onus is on you to provide.

My main interest is not bickering with you, but in sowing doubt on the false logic you provoke.
Fabric has it's inevitable ceilings.
It's buffer/cache's sizes is one, the flow of data packets (affected by timings), is another.

 

[londiste]

For multiple reasons - primarily due to controlling latency and clock domains - it is beneficial to have a shared frequency for memory and IF. This is well documented.

RAM timings are specific to RAM and its controller. IF does not inherit these.
RAM controller to cores traffic probably gets indirectly affected by RAM timings but due to RAM latencies, not due to anything IF does.

Edit:
It is pretty difficult to prove a negative. Basically only way to do that is - See, none of the IF documentation or articles mention timings so they are not relevant
But more seriously, that is why I asked for a source - if you can point at an AMD document or just an article that mentions timings in relation to IF, that would be something to look into.

Even in theory, I am having a hard time trying to imagine how timings would affect IF. RAM timings are all related to specifics of SDRAM - CL is cycles between sending the address to memory and starting to get data in return, Trcd is delay from opening memory row to accessing data, Trp is precharge to opening next row, Tras is something about delay to precharge. None of these make any sense for an interconnect or its configuration.

 

[msroadkill612]

As stated, I will leave it to others to get drawn in if they wish, but better sub-timings pushing more packets thru Fabric's cache bottleneck at the same raw speed per packet, seems plausible & easily grasped.