[Throttlestop] [i7_4700MQ] [Utilization] [Non Turbo Ratio]

[yb-ressap]

Hi,

I'm a newbie here. I started using Throttlestop to improve my laptop's temps, and utilize my CPU's capabilities.

Unfortunately, I'm having trouble getting the i7_4700MQ to turbo boost to 3.00 GHz (all-core.)

If I start the "TS Bench" without changing any settings, the CPU will go upto 2.4 GHz (base clock speed) only.

I can only get the CPU to boost by ticking the "Set Multiplier" box. Alternatively, changing the "Non Turbo Ratio" to "1" in "FIVR" [default value is "0"] allows turbo boost as well.
However, when I do either of these changes I see "Utilization" lighting red in "Limit Reasons" under "Core."

"Utilization" is gone during "TS Bench"

What does this "Utilization" indicate exactly?

What are the values that I can enter in "Non Turbo Ratio"? I thought this would be "24" as in 2.4 GHz base clock speed.

All tests were done while plugged in. If I perform these tests on battery, results are worse-- in terms of clock speeds.

I use this laptop for everyday use; nothing heavy; documents, web browsing, watching videos.

 

[unclewebb]

I started using Throttlestop to improve my laptop's temps

What is wrong with your temps? Intel CPUs do a fantastic job looking after themselves. Your CPU is rated to be able to run reliably up to 100°C. Your CPU will automatically thermal throttle and slow down if it ever reaches that temperature. No user intervention is required.

If I start the "TS Bench" without changing any settings, the CPU will go upto 2.4 GHz (base clock speed) only.

It is possible that either your laptop BIOS or Windows is not setting your CPU up correctly. My Lenovo laptop with a 4700MQ has a similar problem where it randomly disables Intel Turbo Boost. Using ThrottleStop takes care of that issue. What laptop model do you have? Turbo boost problems were not unusual back then.

What does this "Utilization" indicate exactly?

The Intel public documentation says,

Autonomous Utilization-Based Frequency Control Status (R0)
When set, frequency is reduced below the operating system request because the processor has detected that utilization is low.

Any throttling flag lighting up in red in ThrottleStop is nothing to worry about when a CPU is idle or lightly loaded.

On the 4700MQ, if you are not using the Windows High Performance power profile, ThrottleStop will be in a constant fight with Windows over control of your CPU speed. I prefer using a Non Turbo setting of 1. You can play with this setting if you like. Different values will change the minimum CPU speed.

A setting of 1 forces the CPU to run at full speed all of the time. I like that. Most laptop owners automatically assume that this is a horrible thing to do. I have found that the idle CPU speed does not significantly effect power consumption or CPU core temperatures. CPU cores that are idle will immediately enter one of the low power C states like core C7. In this state, the CPU is disconnected from the internal clock so it is sitting at 0 MHz and it is disconnected from the voltage rail so it is getting 0 Volts. An idle CPU can have its cores spending 99% of the time in C7 where they are dormant. What speed or voltage the CPU core is at the other 1% of the time really does not make much of a difference.

Here is an interesting comparison. Huge difference in idle CPU speed, no difference in power consumption or CPU temperature. A slow CPU was a great feature when the low power C states did not exist. Slowing down a modern CPU does not accomplish as much as one would think.

I'm having trouble getting the i7_4700MQ to turbo boost to 3.00 GHz (all-core.)

Your screenshot shows that in the FIVR widow, you have set the 4 core turbo ratio to 29. That will prevent your CPU from reaching 3.00 GHz when all 4 cores are active. If you really want 3.00 GHz all core, set all of your turbo ratio limits to 30 and set the Non Turbo ratio to 1.

My first question is why do you want to do this? I like a fast CPU so I check the Overclock box. Then you can set all of the turbo ratios to 34 for a 3.40 GHz all core turbo. When plugged in, there is no reason to slow down your CPU but using ThrottleStop, you can do whatever you like. With Overclock checked, I have always used 36, 35, 34, 34 for the turbo ratios. It has run reliably like this since the day I bought it. No need to baby an Intel CPU.

 

[yb-ressap]

What is wrong with your temps? Intel CPUs do a fantastic job looking after themselves. Your CPU is rated to be able to run reliably up to 100°C. Your CPU will automatically thermal throttle and slow down if it ever reaches that temperature. No user intervention is required.

I'm not really complaining about temps. When I TS Bench with default Turbo Ratio values [3.2 GHz all-core] [94+ °C]. I'm still trying to find the "sweet spot" while undervolting. Besides, this is not a big issue for me right now as I don't stress this laptop. Most stressful tasks are Windows Updates, Antivirus Scans, and other Windows maintenance tasks.

It is possible that either your laptop BIOS or Windows is not setting your CPU up correctly. My Lenovo laptop with a 4700MQ has a similar problem where it randomly disables Intel Turbo Boost. Using ThrottleStop takes care of that issue. What laptop model do you have? Turbo boost problems were not unusual back then.

This is what I want to accomplish in this thread; taking care of the Turbo Boost problems. If it's a Windows/drivers issue, I'm open to clean install. I don't know what to do if it's a BIOS issue. Hopefully we'll find out!
Oh! I have a [Lenovo G510] [i7_4700MQ] [16 GB DDR3 RAM @1600MHz] [480 GB SSD] [Windows 8.1 Home x64].

Any throttling flag lighting up in red in ThrottleStop is nothing to worry about when a CPU is idle or lightly loaded.

Okay! I guess I don't have to worry about "Utilization" lighting red.
Speaking of, though, I discovered a new behavior of my laptop and Throttlestop. If I wake the computer from sleep while Throttlestop is running and on battery, I can see PL2 lighting red under "GPU." If I switch to "High Performance" battery profile, PL2 lights red under "GPU" and "RING." If I tick "Speedstep", PL2 lights red under "Core" "GPU" and "RING."
All while idle. The only way I could get rid of these red flags without restarting the computer was to plug in the AC adapter. I'd like your input on this phenomenon.

On the 4700MQ, if you are not using the Windows High Performance power profile, ThrottleStop will be in a constant fight with Windows over control of your CPU speed. I prefer using a Non Turbo setting of 1. You can play with this setting if you like. Different values will change the minimum CPU speed.

I'm confused because my brother has an HP Envy with i7_4700MQ as well. However, his CPU increases and decreases clock speeds automatically depending on system load and tasks running. In other words, he doesn't have to use Windows High Performance profile. [While using Throttlestop as well]
Again, I ask, what are the values I can enter here?
0: doesn't allow me to turbo boost [2.4 GHz at best (base clock)]
1: 2.3 GHz minimum up to 3.4 GHz all the time.
What about other numbers. I saw that in newer generation CPU's such as i7_9750H, the default value is "25". I thought this was the base clock speed 2.5 GHz. Am I wrong here?

A setting of 1 forces the CPU to run at full speed all of the time. I like that. Most laptop owners automatically assume that this is a horrible thing to do. I have found that the idle CPU speed does not significantly effect power consumption or CPU core temperatures. CPU cores that are idle will immediately enter one of the low power C states like core C7. In this state, the CPU is disconnected from the internal clock so it is sitting at 0 MHz and it is disconnected from the voltage rail so it is getting 0 Volts. An idle CPU can have its cores spending 99% of the time in C7 where they are dormant. What speed or voltage the CPU core is at the other 1% of the time really does not make much of a difference.

Here is an interesting comparison. Huge difference in idle CPU speed, no difference in power consumption or CPU temperature. A slow CPU was a great feature when the low power C states did not exist. Slowing down a modern CPU does not accomplish as much as one would think.

I too noticed that while idle the CPU doesn't consume extra wattage regardless of the clock speed [probably one core or thread are clocking that speed, while the rest are idle].
If this is the only way, it's ok I'll do it on a permanent basis [I've been setting Non Turbo Ratio to "1" whenever I needed extra juice before resetting it to "0"].
I'm content with that as you are the expert. I'm just looking to be enlightened.
I just want to understand why on some machines this step isn't necessary for the i7_4700MQ to turbo boost on it's own.
In other words, is there something wrong with my laptop that I can fix [with your help of course] to eliminate this problem.

Your screenshot shows that in the FIVR widow, you have set the 4 core turbo ratio to 29. That will prevent your CPU from reaching 3.00 GHz when all 4 cores are active. If you really want 3.00 GHz all core, set all of your turbo ratio limits to 30 and set the Non Turbo ratio to 1.

Yes, I deliberately set it to 2.9 GHz to lower temps. My question is Why do I have to set the Non Turbo Ratio to "1"?
I'm confused because my brother has an HP Envy with i7_4700MQ as well. However, his CPU increases and decreases clock speeds automatically depending on system load and tasks running. In other words, he doesn't have to tick the Speedstep box or change the value of Non Turbo Ratio to "1."

My first question is why do you want to do this? I like a fast CPU so I check the Overclock box. Then you can set all of the turbo ratios to 34 for a 3.40 GHz all core turbo. When plugged in, there is no reason to slow down your CPU but using ThrottleStop, you can do whatever you like. With Overclock checked, I have always used 36, 35, 34, 34 for the turbo ratios. It has run reliably like this since the day I bought it. No need to baby an Intel CPU.

I may overclock the CPU after all issues are resolved [turbo speeds and temps issue], and after I repaste my CPU and GPU [Hopefully the thermal compund I ordered will arrive by Monday].
Why I want to do what [I'm not sure which point you were referring to; sorry] exactly.
I posted this thread because the CPU is miserably slow. Without Throttlestop, the CPU clocks between .9 GHz and 2.3 GHz at best-- with Balanced or High Performance battery profiles respectively.
With Throttlestop, I have to tick Speedstep or set Non Turbo Ratio to "1" for the CPU to Turbo Boost to the max clocks the CPU can handle [minimum clock speed is 2.3 GHz while setting this.]

BTW, thanks for taking the time to read the entire post and elaborating on each point! I really appreciate it!

 

[computerNoob123]

What is wrong with your temps? Intel CPUs do a fantastic job looking after themselves. Your CPU is rated to be able to run reliably up to 100°C. Your CPU will automatically thermal throttle and slow down if it ever reaches that temperature. No user intervention is required.


It is possible that either your laptop BIOS or Windows is not setting your CPU up correctly. My Lenovo laptop with a 4700MQ has a similar problem where it randomly disables Intel Turbo Boost. Using ThrottleStop takes care of that issue. What laptop model do you have? Turbo boost problems were not unusual back then.


The Intel public documentation says,


Any throttling flag lighting up in red in ThrottleStop is nothing to worry about when a CPU is idle or lightly loaded.

On the 4700MQ, if you are not using the Windows High Performance power profile, ThrottleStop will be in a constant fight with Windows over control of your CPU speed. I prefer using a Non Turbo setting of 1. You can play with this setting if you like. Different values will change the minimum CPU speed.

A setting of 1 forces the CPU to run at full speed all of the time. I like that. Most laptop owners automatically assume that this is a horrible thing to do. I have found that the idle CPU speed does not significantly effect power consumption or CPU core temperatures. CPU cores that are idle will immediately enter one of the low power C states like core C7. In this state, the CPU is disconnected from the internal clock so it is sitting at 0 MHz and it is disconnected from the voltage rail so it is getting 0 Volts. An idle CPU can have its cores spending 99% of the time in C7 where they are dormant. What speed or voltage the CPU core is at the other 1% of the time really does not make much of a difference.

Here is an interesting comparison. Huge difference in idle CPU speed, no difference in power consumption or CPU temperature. A slow CPU was a great feature when the low power C states did not exist. Slowing down a modern CPU does not accomplish as much as one would think.

Your screenshot shows that in the FIVR widow, you have set the 4 core turbo ratio to 29. That will prevent your CPU from reaching 3.00 GHz when all 4 cores are active. If you really want 3.00 GHz all core, set all of your turbo ratio limits to 30 and set the Non Turbo ratio to 1.

My first question is why do you want to do this? I like a fast CPU so I check the Overclock box. Then you can set all of the turbo ratios to 34 for a 3.40 GHz all core turbo. When plugged in, there is no reason to slow down your CPU but using ThrottleStop, you can do whatever you like. With Overclock checked, I have always used 36, 35, 34, 34 for the turbo ratios. It has run reliably like this since the day I bought it. No need to baby an Intel CPU.

I have an i7-8550u core too and have trouble trying to get it to cool temperatures but good performance. Could you please post screenshots of your settings?

 

[unclewebb]

Could you please post screenshots of your settings?

I do not have an 8550U laptop anymore so can you post your settings? Most laptops with this CPU will run extremely hot, especially if you have increased the turbo power limits. Most laptops come with heatsinks that can not fully cool what this CPU is capable of. Overheating and thermal throttling will be the result.

 

[computerNoob123]

I do not have an 8550U laptop anymore so can you post your settings? Most laptops with this CPU will run extremely hot, especially if you have increased the turbo power limits. Most laptops come with heatsinks that can not fully cool what this CPU is capable of. Overheating and thermal throttling will be the result.

Sorry for getting back to you so late. I really appreciate how you responded so quickly!

Anyways, I'm just going to provide a little context.

My laptop is an ultrabook. Specifically a MSI PS42 Modern. Here's a link to the exact specs:
https://www.cdw.com/product/MSI-PS42-8RB-059-14in-Core-i7-8550U-16-GB-RAM-512-GB-SSD/5271421?cm_cat=google&cm_ite=5271421&cm_pla=NA-NA-MSI COMPUTER CORP_NB&cm_ven=acquirgy&ef_id=CjwKCAjwr7X4BRA4EiwAUXjbt0axDOv89Jnyjczr8UknP_AMD8gdw2OXiIN2Lf0DWY5AhT7ijjTtHBoCRHoQAvD_BwE:G:s&gclid=CjwKCAjwr7X4BRA4EiwAUXjbt0axDOv89Jnyjczr8UknP_AMD8gdw2OXiIN2Lf0DWY5AhT7ijjTtHBoCRHoQAvD_BwE&s_kwcid=AL!4223!3!354228322526!!!g!326277036125!


Some problems I have noticed:
- When ever I start playing a game, my render suddenly drops down and I get a huge lag spike
- When my CPU is running at 100%, my laptop temperature becomes 80 degrees Celsius. I heard online that a good temperature is 70 degrees Celsius so I thought that my temperature might be a bit too high

P.S I am not an expert with computers as my username says, and I have a minimal understanding of what most of the settings in throttlestop do.

P.P.S I really appreciate you for helping me and apologize if I sound demanding.


The screenshots I will be showing are when my CPU is at 10%

 

[unclewebb]

I heard online that a good temperature is 70 degrees Celsius

Intel says the maximum safe operating temperature for the Core i7-8550U is 100°C. Do not believe everything you hear on the internet. Trust Intel. They know what their CPUs are capable of.

Intel® Core™ i7-8550U Processor (8M Cache, up to 4.00 GHz) Product Specifications

Intel® Core™ i7-8550U Processor (8M Cache, up to 4.00 GHz) quick reference guide including specifications, features, pricing, compatibility, design documentation, ordering codes, spec codes and more.

ark.intel.com

MSI reduced the 100°C thermal throttling temperature down to 95°C so your CPU is extra safe. There is no need to be concerned about your CPU temperature. Your CPU is well designed to look after itself. If it ever gets up to 95°C, it will immediately slow down to prevent any damage.

Set the Turbo Ratio Limits to their default values; 40, 40, 37, 37 and set the Speed Shift EPP value to 80.

When you undervolt the Intel GPU, you also have to under volt the iGPU Unslice equally. Your computer has a Nvidia GPU which it uses when playing games so using ThrottleStop to under volt the Intel GPU might not be necessary. You might risk stability without any gain in reduced power consumption. For now, I would leave the Intel GPU and iGPU Unslice offset voltages at +0.0000.

When a computer is idle with only ThrottleStop open on the desktop, the individual cores should be spending 99% of their time in the low power C7 state.

http://imgur.com/N3uqcLo

If you have too many programs running in the background, this number will be significantly reduced. Open up the Task Manager, click on the Details tab and click on the CPU column heading to organize your running tasks by CPU usage. If there are apps running in the background that are using a lot of CPU cycles, get rid of them if you do not need them. High CPU usage when idle will interfere with smooth CPU performance while playing games.

my render suddenly drops down and I get a huge lag spike

The Nvidia GPU in your laptop is not a powerful, gaming GPU. Your laptop might be able to play some games smoothly but some games might have moments where the frame rate (FPS) is very low or the game struggles with huge lag spikes. Turn on Nvidia GPU monitoring in the ThrottleStop Options window. Also turn on the Log File option, play a game for at least 15 minutes and then attach your log file to your next post so I can have a look.

 

[computerNoob123]

For some reason, my logs all say that my cpu temp is in the forties. But when I was checking out Throttlestop, it said I was at 75 degrees celsius.

I understand that it is okay for my PC to be at those temperatures but I was wondering how I can lower my temps while gaming to under 70.

By the way, I did a TS bench and my temps went up to 85 degrees celsius, but I digress

 

[unclewebb]

Can you post your log file? Maybe you were seeing your GPU temperature in the log.

 

[computerNoob123]

Can you post your log file? Maybe you were seeing your GPU temperature in the log.

Yeah you were right, I think they were GPU temps because I just checked and the temps match up. How do I switch it to CPU?

 

[unclewebb]

The log file has both CPU and GPU temps. Post a log file if you need help understanding it.

 

[computerNoob123]

Here are my log files. They are fine now.

Anyways. I know my temperatures are fine but I still want to know how others get their CPU temps under 80while gaming. If you don't know that is perfectly fine, I was just wondering.

 

[Unknown?]

make sure u have checked set multiplier 36T, then check speed step, then check powersaver... i have 4700mq, it was stucked at 2.4 ghz even on idle.. i was wondering why my cpu is so busy even when nothing is being performed..