TPU's Nostalgic Hardware Club

[lexluthermiester]

The problem is the 945PM chipset is limited to apx 3.2GB of RAM available to Windows.

I've never heard or read about that. Do you have a citation?

 

[budget_Optiplex]

I've never heard or read about that. Do you have a citation?

Lots of real world experience supporting people still using machines with this chipset in particular the Dell Latitude D520 (car tuners use these because of their serial port). I have set up more D520s for people doing car tuning then I can count. Great old machines, especially upgraded to an SSD and a T7200 CPU!

I still put 2 x 2GB in these machines mostly to get as much bandwidth out of the onboard video as possible. Running 2GB + 1GB sticks noticeably slows down video performance in benches. And the GMA950 doesn't have much of that to begin with lol.

https://www.google.com/search?q=945pm+chipset+4gb&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

 

[Retrorockit]

I tried to update my Opti 380 to Win 10 but it seemed to spit out the TS and Set FSB overclocking apps. Maybe a clean install would let me add them later. I can't run a Dell w/o some OC options.
I found a running Dimension E520 MB in my junk pile. This is nostalgic for me because it was first Dell overclock and landed at 2nd and 3rd place at CPUZ for the QX6800 CPU. 3.73GHz, and 3.998Ghz. That was in Sept. 2015. The CPUZ link is in my sig. Those are pretty much locked at 266fsb , and only support 65nm CPUs. But since they were Pentium 4 era MB high clock speeds and high watt CPUs are part of the deal. There are very few Dell BTX with 4 phase VRM. This is one of them. The XPS 410 is another ( I have one with fresh capacitors). I'm working out some massive cooling upgrades from what I had back then. Also I think I can get SetFSB to tweak the FSB some. I haven't been posting my LGA775 stuff here because it seemed too new. But it looks like the forum is moving in that direction so I'll start sharing my stuff. I'm hoping to get an R9 Fury Nano running in this thing but no luck so far. I ran out of Arctic Thermal Epoxy while reworking the VRM heatsinks to allow a bigger cooler. I had some in my tool box but it was dried out. So I'm stuck for the moment.

The problem is the 945PM chipset is limited to apx 3.2GB of RAM available to Windows......so 64-bit is a bit heavier for such a limited amount of RAM. The later 965 chipset got rid of this artificial limitation......

I'm with Lex on this. I think 945 can run 8GB DDR2 666. The 3.2 GB "limit" sound more like 32 bit Windows and not the chipset. The " " around limit are because I ran a 2GB GTX750 with 6GB RAM on Win7 32 and the GPU found the extra RAM for caching, and let Windows 7 -32 use the other 4GB.
My theory is you should be able to stuff 8GB of DDR2 666 in there and run a 4GB GPU , and the 32 bit OS wouldn't notice. Many systems back them "listed" a 4GB RAM limit, because 2GB modules didn't exist yet. With a BIOS update the newer 2GB modules should run. But with 32 bit Windows they won't "show up".

 

[MaxiPro800]

If it were me, I'd get an SSD for it, even if only a 128GB or something in that range. An SSD would massively improve system response times.

I wouldn't really do that, rather I'd install a 160GB drive, 3GB of RAM and be happy with it.

Had it been the 965PM version, I'd drop in a even bigger SSD hands down, but 945PM and Geforce 7 series aren't something I'd invest too much on.
965PM + Geforce 8 series and above are the ones I'd gladly improve in the right way

 

[budget_Optiplex]

Even if you install 64-bit Windows on a 945 chipset you only get around 3-3.2GB of memory available. Intel crippled this chipset in it's design, much like how the i815 was limited to 512MB........I've worked on a ridiculous amount of laptop and desktop hardware with this chipset.......you will never get your full 4GB of memory.

Examples: https://everymac.com/systems/apple/...ore-2-duo-3-gb-memory-limitation-details.html

i945 Memory Chipset Limitation

I've recently upgraded my Dell Latitude D620 with 2x2GB of RAM (4GB total) and was choked to see that my laptop would not recognize it all, even with a 64-bit OS. It would only see 3326MB for me, even in the BIOS. From what I've read so far, it's a hardware limitation with the i945 chipset...

forums.anandtech.com

You need at least a 946PL or 946GZ chipset to fully utilize 4GB of memory with a 64-bit OS.

 

[Retrorockit]

I'm sorry it's laptop, so my Desktop experience probably doesn't apply.
Here's an optiplex 745 with a 945 chipset running 8GB DDR2.

Please click the green human to continue - UserBenchmark

 

[budget_Optiplex]

Optiplex 745 uses the 965 chipset like your Dimension E520, so it's not crippled like the 945.

https://www.dell.com/downloads/global/products/optix/en/opti_745techspecs.pdf

The 965 chipset is really where the Core 2 CPU could release its power.................it's one of my favorite old school chipsets besides the 440BX.

And incidentally the Core 2 (especially the 45nm Penryn) is my favorite CPU of all time, probably why I still run one. Who would have thought a 2007 CPU would be perfectly usable in 2020?

 

[Retrorockit]

I thought they were the same, then I saw somewhere it was 945. Now I'm not sure.
I guess it is 965. I just ran an Opti 745 long enough to confirm QX6800 support, and an overclock to 3.72GHz and lost interest due to the E520 being better. So it looks like I have 0 experience with the 945 chipset. In fact my E520 project is happening in the hollowed out Opti 745 case

 

[budget_Optiplex]

I really dig the machine in your sig Retrorockit! Since I'm too lazy to search, I'm curious how your overclocking? I'm assuming software FSB tools?

 

[Retrorockit]

What do you guys think will happen if you run Win7 and connect to the internet? I'm running Rollback RX. An outside of Windows utility that reverts my SSD at every reboot. This laptop was air gapped for about 2 years. I got my Windows updates and locked in the drive image.

I really dig the machine in your sig Retrorockit! Since I'm too lazy to search, I'm curious how your overclocking? I'm assuming software FSB tools?

I'm lazy too. But real persistent also. Here's the forum on this. It's all multiplier and Voltage on an unlocked CPU.

Throttlestop overclocking Desktop PCs

Myself and a few others have used Throttlestop software and unlocked CPUs to overclock OEM locked BIOS PCs. Throttlestop was designed for underclocking, and undevolting laptop computers to extend battery life. It also allows full control of Voltage and multiplier on unlocked CPUs. There is a...

www.techpowerup.com

And this one.

Overclocking Dell BTX Computers

Why overclock a Dell? Because they're there. Millions of them in fact. Just about every Dell, HP, Gateway, Acer, etc. Intel computer for almost 10 years was a BTX. Many of them are being sold now as refurbished computers for less than you can buy an operating system license. BTX was originally a...

forums.tomshardware.com

 

[lexluthermiester]

Even if you install 64-bit Windows on a 945 chipset you only get around 3-3.2GB of memory available. Intel crippled this chipset in it's design, much like how the i815 was limited to 512MB........I've worked on a ridiculous amount of laptop and desktop hardware with this chipset.......you will never get your full 4GB of memory.
You need at least a 946PL or 946GZ chipset to fully utilize 4GB of memory with a 64-bit OS.

This was right before mobile chipsets started supporting 8GB+ of RAM. Had forgotten about it..

What do you guys think will happen if you run Win7 and connect to the internet?

Right now? Not much. There haven't been any serious vulnerabilities found in Windows 7 that would make it a "no go" OS. As long as you have a competent security suite(I highly recommend Comodo Internet Security as it's firewall is currently second to no one!) you'll be fine.

I'm running Rollback RX. An outside of Windows utility that reverts my SSD at every reboot. This laptop was air gapped for about 2 years. I got my Windows updates and locked in the drive image.

You really don't need that. 7 is still Ok for a daily driver OS as long as you take precautions and use a good computing ethic.

 

[budget_Optiplex]

canadiantech.info

This domain may be for sale!

www.canadiantech.info

This guy is well respected on the askwoody.com forums. I have followed this procedure myself for a few people that I have running this way for quite some time with no problems at all using MS Security Essentials, weekly MalwareBytes scans, and Waterfox/Firefox with uBlock Origin. Their older systems have been rock solid stable running with no updates since that time! The security updates on Win7 the last few years haven't been that great for stability or performance.

https://www.reddit.com/r/coolstar/comments/evaz0l
Here is something similar............have used the 08-2017 ISO and have had no problems. Actually ran this on my machine listed in system specs for several months of daily computing with zero issues. Only reason I went to Win10 LTSB was because I can slim it down to use less resources then even Win7. And on my 8GB machine, any resources I can free up for gaming are a good thing...............with my tweaked LTSB 2015 a clean boot on my 64-bit desktop idles at about 900MB of RAM usage even while having f.lux, Dolby Home Theatre, and Kodak printer monitor software running.

On 7 I do disable all remote desktop services, as well as the workstation/server services to close off some SMB holes. I disable various other uneeded services as well. However I am not on any type of home network so I don't care about disabling network related services.......

Also, though I've never messed with it, alot of people report good experiences using 0patch. https://0patch.com/

I also use and recommend Windows Privacy Dashboard. https://wpd.app/

 

[Retrorockit]

You really don't need that. 7 is still Ok for a daily driver OS as long as you take precautions and use a good computing ethic.

I had a special situation. A hacker who used to run the servers for Ebay. I actually ran from a Linux Live DVD with no HDD connected for about a year and a 1/2. Every time I connected the Windows HDD to get a file, I could see a Python script trying to run. A rootkit actually got through once. Then there were the $5K of night vision rifle scopes in my Ebay shopping cart with the shipping address changed. Not to mention changing my mothers password, and security questions at Bank of America, twice. The foibles of Win7 are the least of my worries.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I had a special situation. A hacker who used to run the servers for Ebay. I actually ran from a Linux Live DVD with no HDD connected for about a year and a 1/2. Every time I connected the Windows HDD to get a file, I could see a Python script trying to run. A rootkit actually got through once. Then there were the $5K of night vision rifle scopes in my Ebay shopping cart with the shipping address changed. Not to mention changing my mothers password, and security questions at Bank of America, twice. The foibles of Win7 are the least of my worries.

Someone decided they didn't like you. Hope you got the FBI involved.

Rebuild — Windows Update (December, 2019) | Canadian Tech

There are a number of problems with that guide, not the least of which is the adamant advice to only use DVD "+R" disc's, a completely nonsense notion. I use and have been using DVD "-R" without any troubles. Then there is the notion of connecting to the internet and allowing Windows to "finish" updates before installing anything else, including a security suite. Such is not only very foolish but is blatantly unsafe.

Also, though I've never messed with it, alot of people report good experiences using 0patch. https://0patch.com/

Then there's this. I'm sorry man, don't mean to be insulting, but this should NOT be trusted. Please discontinue recommending it.

We now return everyone to their regularly scheduled thread topic..

 

[Retrorockit]

Some decided they didn't like you. Hope you got the FBI involved.

I have the advantage of knowing exactly who it is. After a death in the family he applied for 4 credit cards the next day. Used his own address and phone number. So no mystery there. But he got caught before he could use them so no charges were filed by the local police. He may have lost his job because of the police report because the hacking got really serious about 9 months later. The police didn't give ashit until the night vision scope matter. Police being the obvious high value targets at night. They had another complaint with the same false shipping address. This time when I told them who specifically was doing it the hacking coincidentally stopped (AFAIK). The FBI was investigating an identity theft problem using Ebay employee credentials at the time and place he was in charge. I can just imagine him "helping" with the investigation. But of course they don't report back to me. He also has an online gambling habit. I would guess he's hacking their algorithms. He used his status as a family member to social engineer his way to the deceased persons information. He asked to see the death certificate which has SS#, and mothers maiden name on it. I watched him do it.
His wife used to work in customer service for American Express, so she's involved also.

 

[Apocalypsee]

I plugged in X700Pro card today in my retro gaming PC just for testing, got the thermal paste replaced with Arctic MX4. Surprisingly it runs stable at X700XT clock! Mainly thanks to Samsung memory that always can be clocked higher than advertised. The 2ns memory on this can comfortably run at 525MHz and got a score of 35915 in 3DMark2001SE. This is with 4.1GHz CPU clock, if I clock it at 4.5GHz it should easily break 37000 mark. Too bad this card drops its framerate below 30fps for Serious Sam TSE to at 1920x1080, well this kind of card rarely supposed to handle anything above 1280x1024 back in the day. My X800 breezes this game with 2xAA.

Family portrait with its bigger X800 brother

 

[Robert B]

HIS EXCALIBUR Radeon 9800 PRO IceQ Platinum 128MB AGP 8x. (Samsung K4D263238E-GC2A) https://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/37031/SAMSUNG/K4D263238E-GC2A.html

Untested and with a missing heatsink from the video memory. Otherwise intact. Flea market loot in all its glory!

I hope that it is still alive and kicking. My luck with ATI cards has been abysmal over the years ... not to mention that I find them very hard compared to nVidia products.

 

[Apocalypsee]

HIS EXCALIBUR Radeon 9800 PRO IceQ Platinum 128MB AGP 8x. (Samsung K4D263238E-GC2A) https://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/37031/SAMSUNG/K4D263238E-GC2A.html

Untested and with a missing heatsink from the video memory. Otherwise intact. Flea market loot in all its glory!

I hope that it is still alive and kicking. My luck with ATI cards has been abysmal over the years ... not to mention that I find them very hard compared to nVidia products.

It doesn't look all to good, IO plate is warped, but I hope it worked. You may never know. My X800XT PE look as bad as that, and works...for a month or so before artifact. ATi cards are indeed more fragile than nvidia ones, or perhaps the higher end cards. I never have problem with mid range cards like Radeon 9550/X600 cards that still work today.

 

[Robert B]

If it is still alive I can make it GREAT AGAIN! If not then a show piece it will be!

There is no guarantee with these relics. The only thing that it is certain is that if it works and I restore it, it will be put in a box with a WORKING tag. The rest? Well is history. I don't plan to power it up unless I sell it years from now. Indeed these cards are quite fragile.

Usually at the flea market I don't find working ATI cards so I take this with a truck load of salt.

 

[MaxiPro800]

Heh, there really are no guarantees that they would work. I just bought an ABIT NF7 today and you can't tell it's used. Won't POST or beep.

 

[budget_Optiplex]

Then there's this. I'm sorry man, don't mean to be insulting, but this should NOT be trusted. Please discontinue recommending it.

https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/worth-considering-0patch-for-win7-after-january-2020/

Yeah doing some additional reading 0patch kinda looks like a cluster****. I have seen it discussed a lot on various Windows 7 support forums so that's why I threw it out as something to investigate.....not a recommendation. There does seem to be a very mixed opinion on it no doubt!

There are a number of problems with that guide, not the least of which is the adamant advice to only use DVD "+R" disc's, a completely nonsense notion. I use and have been using DVD "-R" without any troubles. Then there is the notion of connecting to the internet and allowing Windows to "finish" updates before installing anything else, including a security suite. Such is not only very foolish but is blatantly unsafe.

And on this yeah I don't get the DVD-R vs DVD+R suggestion either, I've never had a problem with either type and I've used both since the days they came on the market. My ancient DVD-R burned discs work fine.

And I like his methodology as far as getting the base system updated to May of 2017, but I agree that next should be a good security suite before getting on the internet the first time to finish checking for updates. But then again I've purposely installed just a base un-updated Win7 SP1 on my test bench system and let it sit on the internet for days behind just a cheap Netgear wireless router just to see what happens.....and so far I've seen no evidence of a system compromise. Take it for what you want. Personally I think the fear mongering about updates at least as far as a simple home user is concerned may be a bit over-hyped. Now a large business or 'high-value' target, then yeah updates and security issues should be your 1st consideration.

I'm well aware of people out there that are still running Vista, XP SP3, and Win7 as daily drivers all in various states of patches and none of them has had a security issue. Then again these are people who have been around and know what they are doing and how to practice 'safe-computing' such as myself. I have yet to personally get a virus or malware infection in 30 years of using Windows daily (knock on wood).

HIS EXCALIBUR Radeon 9800 PRO IceQ Platinum 128MB AGP 8x. (Samsung K4D263238E-GC2A) https://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/37031/SAMSUNG/K4D263238E-GC2A.html

Untested and with a missing heatsink from the video memory. Otherwise intact. Flea market loot in all its glory!

I hope that it is still alive and kicking. My luck with ATI cards has been abysmal over the years ... not to mention that I find them very hard compared to nVidia products.

That's a nice card. Had one back in the day I bought used off ebay in 2004 or so, it was a very solid performer other then a few driver related issues. Played through F.E.A.R. using that card, one of my favorite games ever! I wish I would have held on to it, but traded it and some other stuff for a used Geforce 6600GT around 2006. Oh how I and probably everyone else wishes the ATI drivers were better quality back then. Very nice hardware short-changed by mostly mediocre drivers. I hope it works for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[biffzinker]

Tried a test POST for the Gigabyte X48 that @JustAnEngineer sent me. Came up on first power up. There’s way more options for overclocking compared to the limited options the XFX board had. Also auto detected the SPD profile for the DDR2-1066 DIMMS.

CMOS battery seems to be fine.

 

[Robert B]

Full restoration in progress ... I didn't power up the HIS 9800 PRO and I left this for when I'm done with it. I found a couple of problems or should I say more and I decided to keep it off from the electrical juice until she'll be @ 100%!

The rings of Saturn.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Full restoration in progress ... I didn't power up the HIS 9800 PRO and I left this for when I'm done with it. I found a couple of problems or should I say more and I decided to keep it off from the electrical juice until she'll be @ 100%!

The rings of Saturn.

Very wise choice!

 

[Robert B]

Flea Market Day TODAY!!!

1. Windows 98 SE - aka Deuxieme Edition. French. Sealed.

2. Mitsumi CD-ROM 2x / Double Speed.

2x?! HELL YEAH! How slow can you go?
3. Pentium PRO 180MHz - KB80521EX180 - SL22S - 256KB - one VSS pin partially torn but I think that I can straighten the other pins without casualties. I might be able to solder the damaged pin back or the surrounding pins might take other its function. The problem is that I still don't have a sk8 motherboard to test it. My gut feeling says that I'll find one, eventually. All roads lead to Rome.