Help undervolting i7 8750h Throttlestop

[Thrasher]

Reset the turbo ratio limits to 40 maximum as your CPU cannot boost to 4.1 all core, that is max turbo limit and will only boost on one or two cores.

excuse my ignorance XD, where would it be?

 

[unclewebb]

http://imgur.com/hBxsrHt

For the 8750H, max turbo ratio limits are 41, 41, 40, 40, 39, 39. Setting them higher than this is ignored by the CPU.

Run Cinebench R20. Open Limit Reasons and watch for throttling. A laptop with decent cooling should score over 3000 in this test.

 

[chplff94]

hello,

I'm new here ...

is there any way to get rid of PL1 throttling on 8750H ? or it's locked by BIOS ?


Laptop - ASUS GL503
OS - Windows 10 v1909


Thank You

 

[unclewebb]

or it's locked by BIOS?

You set the long term turbo power limit (PL1) to 60W, you are using the Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits feature and you are still being throttled to 45W. That means the manufacturer is using the EC to enforce the PL1 power limit to 45W. This is equal to the TDP rating and there is no easy way around this type of power limit throttling.

OEMs have a right to do this but many do not. In a laptop with adequate cooling, the 8750H can perform significantly better if it is allowed to run up to 70W. All consumers can do is vote with their wallets. Asus laptops look great but based on your testing, I would never buy a laptop from them.

 

[chplff94]

You set the long term turbo power limit (PL1) to 60W, you are using the Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits feature and you are still being throttled to 45W. That means the manufacturer is using the EC to enforce the PL1 power limit to 45W. This is equal to the TDP rating and there is no easy way around this type of power limit throttling.

OEMs have a right to do this but many do not. In a laptop with adequate cooling, the 8750H can perform significantly better if it is allowed to run up to 70W. All consumers can do is vote with their wallets. Asus laptops look great but based on your testing, I would never buy a laptop from them.

Thank You @unclewebb for reply

 

[uhlink]

Hello @unclewebb , My EDP OTHER ring is yellow in the limits. I am trying to reach stable temperatures in idle. I have followed a lot of your replies and adjusted my settings. If you could please take a look at them and maybe shed some light. Attached are the images, alongside log file from TS after running Cinebench R20 and my specs from HWMonitor data. Thank you so much

 

[unclewebb]

The ThrottleStop log file clearly shows your problem.

   DATE       TIME    MULTI   C0%   CKMOD  CHIPM   BAT_mW  TEMP    VID   POWER
2020-07-27  17:53:33  36.84   98.9  100.0  100.0        0  100   0.9784   54.7   TEMP
2020-07-27  17:53:34  37.24   99.1  100.0  100.0        0  100   1.0007   54.0   TEMP
2020-07-27  17:53:35  37.04   99.5  100.0  100.0        0  100   0.9761   53.4   TEMP
2020-07-27  17:53:36  37.08   99.4  100.0  100.0        0  100   1.0017   52.8   TEMP
2020-07-27  17:53:37  37.12   99.5  100.0  100.0        0  100   1.0013   53.5   TEMP
2020-07-27  17:53:38  36.82   99.7  100.0  100.0        0  100   0.9788   52.9   TEMP
2020-07-27  17:53:39  36.93   99.7  100.0  100.0        0  100   0.9979   52.2   TEMP
2020-07-27  17:53:40  37.06   99.6  100.0  100.0        0  100   0.9769   54.0   TEMP
2020-07-27  17:53:41  37.07   99.6  100.0  100.0        0  100   0.9788   53.2   TEMP
2020-07-27  17:53:42  37.03   99.7  100.0  100.0        0  100   0.9773   53.0   TEMP
2020-07-27  17:53:43  36.94   99.8  100.0  100.0        0  100   0.9867   52.8   TEMP
2020-07-27  17:53:44  36.93   99.7  100.0  100.0        0  100   0.9814   53.1   TEMP
2020-07-27  17:53:45  36.94   99.7  100.0  100.0        0  100   0.9844   52.8   TEMP
2020-07-27  17:53:46  36.84   99.7  100.0  100.0        0  100   0.9779   52.9   TEMP
2020-07-27  17:53:47  36.77   99.7  100.0  100.0        0  100   0.9843   51.4   TEMP
2020-07-27  17:53:48  36.65   99.6  100.0  100.0        0  100   0.9775   51.8   TEMP
2020-07-27  17:53:49  36.61   99.6  100.0  100.0        0  100   0.9829   51.4   TEMP
2020-07-27  17:53:50  36.58   99.6  100.0  100.0        0  100   0.9836   50.8   TEMP
2020-07-27  17:53:51  36.56   99.6  100.0  100.0        0  100   0.9519   51.2   TEMP
2020-07-27  17:53:52  36.55   99.7  100.0  100.0        0  100   0.9761   50.9   TEMP
2020-07-27  17:53:53  36.55   99.7  100.0  100.0        0  100   0.9788   51.7   TEMP
2020-07-27  17:53:54  36.64   99.6  100.0  100.0        0  100   0.9771   51.5   TEMP
2020-07-27  17:53:55  36.64   99.7  100.0  100.0        0  100   0.9524   51.3   TEMP
2020-07-27  17:53:56  36.21   99.7  100.0  100.0        0   96   0.9325   49.7   PL1
2020-07-27  17:53:57  35.00  100.0  100.0  100.0        0   95   0.9323   44.6   PL1
2020-07-27  17:53:58  35.00  100.0  100.0  100.0        0   95   0.9324   44.7   PL1
2020-07-27  17:53:59  35.00  100.0  100.0  100.0        0   95   0.9326   45.3   PL1
2020-07-27  17:54:00  35.00  100.0  100.0  100.0        0   95   0.9331   44.4   PL1
2020-07-27  17:54:06  35.01  100.0  100.0  100.0        0   96   0.9331   44.9   PL1
2020-07-27  17:54:07  35.00  100.0  100.0  100.0        0   96   0.9319   44.7   PL1
2020-07-27  17:54:08  34.98  100.0  100.0  100.0        0   95   0.9064   45.3   PL1
2020-07-27  17:54:09  34.93  100.0  100.0  100.0        0   96   0.9318   44.6   PL1
2020-07-27  17:54:10  35.00  100.0  100.0  100.0        0   96   0.9327   44.7   PL1

In the far right column it shows TEMP. That means your CPU is thermal throttling. Why? If you look in the TEMP column your CPU is running at a constant 100°C. Of course it is going to be thermal throttling. It is trying to protect itself from a nuclear meltdown.

After a while the power limit is reduced down to a maximum of 45W. Now the far right column shows PL1. Your laptop is slowing down (throttling) to keep power consumption just under the 45W long term limit. This can be adjusted in the TPL window. At the moment the long term turbo power limit is set to 45W so throttling at this level makes sense. Your CPU cooling is still struggling at this level.

Your first screen shot shows one of your CPU cores at 74°C while the other ones are at 59°C or 60°C. That is a significant difference and is usually a sign that someone did a really poor job installing the heatsink and fan or the heatsink is not flat and it is not making full contact with the entire CPU. This needs to be closely examined and fixed.

If your first screenshot is when your computer is idle then there is a bigger problem. A properly functioning computer running Windows 10 needs to spend very little time in the C0 state when idle. Typically 0.5% or less. Your screenshot shows 25.0%. Maybe your screenshot was taken when your CPU was not idle but if this is idle, you need to open up the Task Manager, click on the Details tab and find out what is running on your computer. Definitely lots of room for improvement.

http://imgur.com/Sjo8mtn

Until you fix your cooling issues, you will never be able to achieve maximum performance from your laptop. Might as well reduce the short term power limit down to 45W. Your cooling cannot handle your CPU when it is allowed to run at 55W.

 

[Thrasher]

Hello, I followed your advice to try cinebench r20,
gave me this.
As you can see I do not reach 4.1ghz, which is what I want

 

[uhlink]

Hey, @unclewebb This is what's on the details tab, there were more but they either said 0 or were around 1-3.

I re-applied thermal paste and re-seated my heatsink. Temps are closely together but they're hovering between 60-70 C.

I made Core and Cache Offset -125. Also put short term on 45 as you suggested, i don't know how to make these temps good.

This is a new log file while running Cinebench R20 , no longer temp throttling but instead PL2

 

[unclewebb]

@uhlink - Here is some info about DSAPI.exe

Serious vulnerability in Dell’s PC Doctor Assistant

borncity.com

If I bought a new laptop, I would ditch all of the OEM related software and install a clean version of Windows 10 directly from Microsoft. There are a lot of questionable utilities out there that soak up CPU cycles, create heat and accomplish nothing. You can see from my screenshot that a clean version of Windows 10 plus ThrottleStop running uses next to nothing for CPU resources. If your idle C0% is way over 0.5% then you need to do some Windows house cleaning.

You get to choose either power limit throttling or thermal throttling. Either one is going to slow your CPU down and prevent it from reaching maximum or consistent performance. For the 9750H to run at its full rated speed, it needs a cooler that can dissipate about 75W. Your cooler is struggling at 45W. Many laptops provide only enough cooling for the CPU to run at the 45W TDP.

The next step is up to you. You can try re-engineering your laptop to improve the cooling or you can continue using your laptop at its present level where you are losing almost 900 MHz due to barely adequate cooling. Do you have a Dell laptop? What model? They tend to lock the long term turbo power limit internally to 45W because their heatsinks cannot handle anything more than that. Your testing shows this problem.

 

[Berfs1]

Here's one way to lower your temperatures, lower that maximum cache ratio. Clearly it is adhering to the maximum (37x), if you drop it down to 30, you should be able to get better CPU performance. I have a 9750H, a slightly faster version of your CPU. Basically, I have turbos maxed out for 2 profiles, one that I named Max Performance, and the other Consistent Performance. I use MP when gaming or under lighter tasks, and I use CP when video editing or streaming or anything else that pegs my CPU at 100% and goes over 90C (that's when the fans get really loud). I have MP set to 39x-42x (my laptop adheres to the minimum, not maximum like yours), and CP set to 32x-33x, temperatures drop almost 10°C. That's why I made that profile, because gaming performance drops by about 1 FPS in most games, but in video editing especially when I am rendering videos, it doesn't throttle the core clocks. The reason that is important is, if I use MP for rendering, it will thermal throttle. It will hit 100C, and drop the clock speeds all the way down below 2 GHz, however if I use MP, that never happens, because thermals are hovering below 90°C. In case you are wondering, when video editing, CP uses about 60W, while when using MP, it can burst to 74-75W. My laptop has PL1 of 75W and PL2 of 90W, however 90W is the hard limit. That doesn't mean thermals are okay with it, it means that's the maximum power Dell allowed my CPU to pull, presumably because there are 8 core chips that were also available, but I chose the 9750H because it was cheaper and I had a feeling thermals would be a big issue, and it was with the stock compound. After replacing the thermal compound with IC Diamond, the 9750H's performance went up by more than 10%, pretty embarrassing considering this is Dell's highest end workstation laptop for 15", and they cheaped out on the thermal compound. Anyways, after repasting and tuning (incl. undervolting), package thermals went down 10C in CB20, and 19C in CB15, performance went up 25% and 10.5% respectively, package power dropped 19.4W and 27.3W respectively, and total system power dropped 23.2W and 32.1W respectively. Overall undervolting seriously helped, as well as the thermal compound change.

TLDW: lower your cache ratio by about 8-10x, that will lower your temperatures enough to let your core clocks go higher, while losing minimal performance from cache, and gaining more performance from the increased core speed.

One more thing, about the 8750H, the turbo ratios are 41/41/40/40/39/39, so in CB for single threaded, you should hit 41x provided you max out your turbos and you don't have too many background apps running, because it will run at 41x when up to 2 cores are used. If you disable 4 cores in BIOS (assuming you are able to do that), then see if you can hit 41x, because if you can, then the only reason it isn't hitting it with all 6 cores enabled is because there are too many background apps running. I just opened CPU-Z, and I was able to hit 44x, not 45x like my 9750H is specced for. TBH, the "max turbo frequency" that Intel has provided for years is bogus for real world usage, unless you actually disable enough cores, because basically you almost never are going to hit that single core frequency jump of 100 MHz, nor would you notice it. That's why having the turbo ratios is important; Intel used to provide them, until Skylake (or Kaby Lake, I forgot) came around and they removed all the turbo ratio tables from their website.

@uhlink - Here is some info about DSAPI.exe

Serious vulnerability in Dell’s PC Doctor Assistant

borncity.com

You can try re-engineering your laptop to improve the cooling or you can continue using your laptop at its present level where you are losing almost 900 MHz due to barely adequate cooling. Do you have a Dell laptop? What model? They tend to lock the long term turbo power limit internally to 45W because their heatsinks cannot handle anything more than that. Your testing shows this problem.

One method that would be viable is to purchase a cooling pad, or physically raising the laptop on stands, so that there is more room for intake. As for the 45W limit, it's usually for laptops that were meant to be using quad cores before 8th gen hit. It's possible the OP's laptop has a hard limit at 55W, meaning even if they were able to magically lower the temperatures enough, they still would be limited to 55W by the motherboard limits (but a temperature improvement is an improvement nonetheless). I use a DJ Laptop stand and the laptop sits on two metal rails and it provides better air intake, instead of normal setups like on a flat surface, which tends to block the max intake a laptop can take.

Another method that would also be viable is limiting the current. If you can limit it to just enough, you can force your clock speed to hit a certain speed when under full load, and that also will lower temperatures, because you are lowering the current, and V * A = W, if you go from 1.1V * 50A to 1.1V * 40A, your clock speed will drop a bit, so you won't have any instability issues, and your power draw theoretically would drop from 55W to 44W. Obviously that is just a theoretical example, but you will be able to drop the power that the CPU takes by throttling the current, so that you can make as much performance as you can with the limits you have.

 

[uhlink]

@unclewebb

It's a G3 3590

I7-9750H
1660 Ti Max Q
16 GB Ram ddr4
512 NvME SSD
2TB External

Thank you so much for replying

 

[AOne]

@Berfs1 - awesome post and a very good idea. Congrats.

 

[xXxreaperxXx]

@uhlink - Here is some info about DSAPI.exe

Serious vulnerability in Dell’s PC Doctor Assistant

borncity.com

If I bought a new laptop, I would ditch all of the OEM related software and install a clean version of Windows 10 directly from Microsoft. There are a lot of questionable utilities out there that soak up CPU cycles, create heat and accomplish nothing. You can see from my screenshot that a clean version of Windows 10 plus ThrottleStop running uses next to nothing for CPU resources. If your idle C0% is way over 0.5% then you need to do some Windows house cleaning.

You get to choose either power limit throttling or thermal throttling. Either one is going to slow your CPU down and prevent it from reaching maximum or consistent performance. For the 9750H to run at its full rated speed, it needs a cooler that can dissipate about 75W. Your cooler is struggling at 45W. Many laptops provide only enough cooling for the CPU to run at the 45W TDP.

The next step is up to you. You can try re-engineering your laptop to improve the cooling or you can continue using your laptop at its present level where you are losing almost 900 MHz due to barely adequate cooling. Do you have a Dell laptop? What model? They tend to lock the long term turbo power limit internally to 45W because their heatsinks cannot handle anything more than that. Your testing shows this problem.

Hello, I have an Acer Aspire 5 notebook with an MX130 and an i5 core 8265U I always played on it and I never had a problem but 2 weeks ago when I play any game the FPS drops from nothing to 60 FPS, I have already restored the notebook and it didn't work, I updated the BIOS and, but I see when the FPS drops, the processor goes from 15W to 12W why does that happen? I never had this problem and now nothing happens, help me please.

 

[Kohuke]

I've been reading this topic and main reason why specially thin gaming laptops tend to throttle and have few cores hotter then the other, is the issue of bad build/placement of components.

I have MSI gs65 Stealth 95G (with i7-9750H @2.60GHz and RTX 2080 Max-Q Design) and even with all of the undervolting still tends to have few cores 20 degrees or so higher then the other, procing the throttling around 93+ degrees C on 2 cores.
My Processor power state has been set to 75% at max level.

Is there any settings that I can play around in BIOS as well (though as TS is not working in BIOS the laptop gets hot very quick, even when it is sitting on a cooling bad above the table) which doesn't take more then few minutes?

Anything else I can do fix the issue of 2 cores running hot or is temps like that under load (rendering HD video and playing) fine?
Laptop has still almost 1 and half of year warranty left, will it break the warranty if I would bring the laptop to my dealer to have the CPU repasted with something decent? Or will it only be done under RMA?

 

[Caring1]

I've been reading this topic and main reason why specially thin gaming laptops tend to throttle and have few cores hotter then the other, is the issue of bad build/placement of components.

I have MSI gs65 Stealth 95G (with i7-9750H @2.60GHz and RTX 2080 Max-Q Design) and even with all of the undervolting still tends to have few cores 20 degrees or so higher then the other, procing the throttling around 93+ degrees C on 2 cores.
My Processor power state has been set to 75% at max level.

Is there any settings that I can play around in BIOS as well (though as TS is not working in BIOS the laptop gets hot very quick, even when it is sitting on a cooling bad above the table) which doesn't take more then few minutes?

Anything else I can do fix the issue of 2 cores running hot or is temps like that under load (rendering HD video and playing) fine?
Laptop has still almost 1 and half of year warranty left, will it break the warranty if I would bring the laptop to my dealer to have the CPU repasted with something decent? Or will it only be done under RMA?

27C difference between cores is huge and indicates poor application of the Thermal interface material.
Having a shop reapply it shouldn't void warranty, you should even be able to do it yourself, but the manufacturer may argue that voids warranty.

 

[Kohuke]

27C difference between cores is huge and indicates poor application of the Thermal interface material.
Having a shop reapply it shouldn't void warranty, you should even be able to do it yourself, but the manufacturer may argue that voids warranty.

I will try to contact the seller then and see will they be able to do it, cause I do not feel that comfortable taking the laptop apart myself. I'd rather have someone with more experience do it. But anything else I can tweak to make it run more cooler?

 

[unclewebb]

even with all of the undervolting

Part of the problem is that you are not doing any undervolting. You need to under volt both the CPU core and CPU cache or else the CPU will completely ignore your under volt request.

Start by setting these equally to an offset of -125 mV for both the CPU core and cache. Download Cinebench R20. Do a baseline test of Cinebench and see if you are stable. Do a couple of TS Bench tests. Some light tests like 1 or 2 Threads just to make sure you are stable at this setting. If everything is OK, try decreasing only the CPU core offset in steps of -25 mV and see if your temperatures or performance in Cinebench R20 improve at all.

Download ThrottleStop 9.2 from TechPowerUp. Hopefully the new version can correctly report your C0%.

Set Speed Shift Max back to 45 and set your turbo ratio limits back to their default values. For your situation, I would lower the turbo power limits as much as necessary. Your cooling solution would be overwhelmed at 90W. Check the Turbo Boost Short Power Max box and start by setting both of your power limits to 45W. If your cooling system is still struggling, go less. A proper under volt will help but ultimately, it looks like you need to replace the thermal paste. People working on an assembly line either do not know or do not care about thermal paste. With a laptop with poor thermal design, application of the thermal paste is critical.

 

[Kohuke]

Thank you, unclewebb, for pointing out my mistak of not touching the cashe bit.

Tests with 12 threads and 96M size
With both cache and core -125 the result in TS is 15.706
Cache at -125 and Core at -150.4 the Bench on TS is 15.427
Cache still at -125 and core with 154.3 Bench was with score of 11.402

In Cinebench with -125mv undervolt I got 2372 as the result with majority of the cores staying between 75-80 degrees and the 2 hot cores peaked at 96 degrees.
With cache staying -125 and core around -150.4mv the result in Cinebench 2383; the majority temperatures stayed around 75, some cores below 70 and the 2 hot cores around 93 degrees.
With the last setting in TS the score was the same as with the 1st set of settings, so I guess the bigger number in Cinebench means better performance, so I will go back to 150.4 for co0re. Temperatures stayed on the 2 higher cores around 91 degrees.

I think the power limit of 45 is fine, given that with the medium setting the prochot was not shown.

I tried 40w on the power setting and then POWER was yelled to me by TS while running the Cinebench test, although the highest peak on the hot cores was 90 (not that big temperature difference), so I assume it is not good and that is way too less.

The new version of TS idd shows the c0%

I will try to have my laptop repasted (hopefully the dealer is allowed to do it on premises, rather then send the laptop off to msi...) and will hope that the temperatures go lower.
Thank you so far for the tips, I will do more testing when I get the laptop back

 

[Kohuke]

I got my laptop back from the dealer where it received new paste. Much cooler now. Even put processor max power state to 80 as well as both cache and core to -125mV.
Upped the Turbo Ratio limits to 40-39-38-37-36-36 and the Cinebench results are now much more crappier: 1485, instead of what it was before.

I put the the turbo limits, to defaults now... Put short term power usage to 90w as it was before and reset all of the voltages, upped the CPU power state to 90% and got my cinebench results to 1678... Temp was 71 the highest.

What else is wrong now? Not that I am complaining nor it matters that much I guess, as my games FPS seem to be the same as it was before, just curious.

 

[unclewebb]

upped the CPU power state to 90%

What setting did you change? Is this the Windows max processor state? This should be set to 100%.

Did you set the Speed Shift Max value back to 45?

Temp was 71 the highest.

That is a big problem. The 9750H needs to run a lot hotter than that to achieve maximum performance. Even with great cooling, laptops with these CPUs will be up over 90°C. That is a normal operating temperature for these CPUs.

and got my cinebench results to 1678

That is a terrible result for your CPU. You might want to delete the ThrottleStop.INI configuration file and shutdown your computer so it resets itself. Your CPU is running at half of its rated speed. Turn on the ThrottleStop log file option and show me some more pictures of how you have ThrottleStop setup. You changed something and not for the better.

 

[Kohuke]

@unclewebb The funniest thing is that when I got my laptop back from the thermal pasting and "dust cleaning" from the dealer I didn't touch any of the TS settings and all things where as they were before I sent it to the shop. When I got back, then I ran the test again and got bad results and it is only after that I started to put the settings back bit higher.

Since then I've placed the windows setting of CPU performance back to 100%, deleted the ini-file of TS as well as disableing TS in Task Scheduler. After I've done all of that, I got with the base settings of TS (nothing changed or touched, default settings) , Cinebench result of 2374 with Power/Hot blinking in TS.
Attaching the log from that. Dunno what went wrong in the service, since they didn't have an account/pw to boot to windows - maybe that just a simple starting computer and the shutting down cause TS to do something.

Also attaching a log when the laptop was completely idle (or well I was AFK).

Now I set the TPL for both short and long to 45W, nothing else changed. Running Cinebench again, TS saying POWER with the result of 2120.

With TPL still 45W, CPU core/cache reduced to -125mW, nothing else changed I get the result of 2372, with temperature maxing at 84 degrees, although TS yelling POWER. Attaching a log (..._power.txt)

Powers now set to 50/55, rest as it was before the temperature went to 91 degrees and still yelled POWER to me. Result was the best so far 2490. Log with ..50.55.txt. So I guess getting to 91 is not still ideal and the TPL should be reduced.

With TPL settings 45/50, CPU core reduced -150.4 and the cashe at -125, getting 80ish degrees and test results in Cinebench with 2486. Log ...45.50.txt

By going back to the guide I found here (with the exception of leaving the Turbo Ratio limits the way they were as well as leaving the TPL the way they was on the previous test), TS still saying power but the temperature seemed fine and the Cinebench gave me 2490 as the result. ..._final.txt is called that log.
Anything else I can play around to make the power demand go away? What else would you recommend I could change in the TS settings that the temperatures would say normal, but the power demand to go away? Or won't that happen if I want the temps. to be normal? Screens attached below.

 

[AOne]

You've got 20 degrees difference between cores. Guess how "good" the dealer performed the repasting. Just do it yourself.

 

[TheEndIsNear]

I have 2 intel laptops. An Hp Omen with an 8750h and an msi with a 9300h I think that the number. But they throttle like crazy. The Hp omen is a big notebook while the msi is a 4 pounder. Even undervolting as much as I can with a laptop cooler the omen will still hit thermal throttling, the 9300h which is a 4 core 8 thread I've got right at the sweet spot of just being under throttling temp when gaming. I had a 4lb haswell laptop that would never get that hot. It just seems to me that they are too aggressive with their boost clocks. I had the 6 core omen locked at 3.2 and it would come close to throttling while gaming. Locked any higher than that it throttled. These are freaking hot chips. I've been around a while and this is the first time I've seen a chip go so fast to the thermal limit. Except that time I forget to plug in the pump on a water cooler lol. It just seems odd.

 

[Kohuke]

You've got 20 degrees difference between cores. Guess how "good" the dealer performed the repasting. Just do it yourself.

Sadly am not the person to do take the laptop apart. Just so many things what an inexperienced hand can break in there without proper tools.