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New case, fan setup and orientation help...

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I've bought a new case ( MSI MAG Vampiric 011C ) and it supports 6 fans (3x120/140 front fans, 2x 120/140 top fans and 1x120 rear fan) Looking for some input on the best fan setup for it. Currently I have 2x120 front intakes and my AIO 120 which is acting as the exhaust in my current case, with the new case there is an included 120m RGB fan included so that would mean I would have 4x120m fans in total, the AIO will remain as the exhaust as this seems like the most logical place for it, should I buy 1 or 2 more fans? should the top fans exhaust or intake? any input or feedback appreciated. I am also contemplating a push pull setup for my AIO as opposed to the single push fan that I have it set up as right now to maximise cooling, again, open to criticism/ constructive feedback on this
 

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Switch to 140mm fans. keep the 120mm AIO as exhaust. you want to go into your bios and edit fan curves so that the front intake fans always run faster than exhaust fans for positive pressure.
 
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I would suggest buying another fan and put 2 intake in the front, 2 exhaust at top and 1 exhaust at rear.
Or you could just put 3 intake in the front and 1 exhaust in the rear.
 
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Top fans as exhaust or intake?

I would suggest buying another fan and put 2 intake in the front, 2 exhaust at top and 1 exhaust at rear.
Or you could just put 3 intake in the front and 1 exhaust in the rear.
interesting, a negative positive vs a negative pressure setup, any benefits/caveats?
 

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Negative pressure means that dust will get pulled in from any small gaps inside your case, negative pressure can also affect temps a little but not by a huge margin.

Its always better to have more air being pulled inside the case then pushed out because the air being pulled in is always cooler than the air already inside your case.

it wont matter if your exhaust fans are 600-800rpm so long as the front fans ramp up to 1000-1300rpm to keep the balance right.
 
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Negative pressure means that dust will get pulled in from any small gaps inside your case, negative pressure can also affect temps a little but not by a huge margin.

Its always better to have more air being pulled inside the case then pushed out because the air being pulled in is always cooler than the air already inside your case.
To be clear, you want "slight" positive or over-pressure. Too much one way or the other can result in stagnant air pockets which can result in heat building up.

Another critical reason for having slight positive pressure is that will pull the cool air in through the air filters - that is, if the case has front air filters. Sadly, that case does not - which I find odd and IMO, a serious show-stopping omission. :(
 
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To be clear, you want "slight" positive or over-pressure. Too much one way or the other can result in stagnant air pockets which can result in heat building up.

Another critical reason for having slight positive pressure is that will pull the cool air in through the air filters - that is, if the case has front air filters. Sadly, that case does not - which I find odd and IMO, a serious show-stopping omission. :(
Odd?, there are tons of cases with a solid front panel, though It's got 2 grills on the front sides as well as a top intake for 2 120m fans so I don't see it as being an issue tbh
 
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I would do 2 140s in the bottom 2 ports in the front as intake a 140 in the first slot at the top closest to the front as exhaust and the 120 at the rear as exhaust that should allow for your GPU to be cooled by the front and the heat your RAM and CPU produce would be mitigated by those exhaust fans.
 
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Odd?, there are tons of cases with a solid front panel
Solid? Umm, not really. Most have some form of a vent - ether meshed screens or slots to let front-mounted fans pull cool air in through those vents. And more and more cases these days have removable washable filters in front too. The actual front face may be solid, but there typically are vents too - yours, like my Fractal Design R4 has them on the sides of the front panel. But with the R4, there is a large, removable filter behind that front panel too.

My point about it being odd is that there is a filter on top but apparently no where else. If you look at this overview image for your case, it makes a point of pulling cool in through the front and exhausting it out the top. A filter on the top "exhaust" vent serves absolutely no purpose at all! If you want filtered air too keep your case from getting full of heat trapping dust, you will need to orient your tops fans as intakes, or use a radiator setup there with intake fans. And in those scenarios, the air flow pattern will be reversed from that image.

I mean, it will work. It is just an odd setup.
 
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Yea that image is contradictory to say the least, though the filter may well be to stop getting crap in the case from the top, either way it doesn't matter as I'll be using the front and top for intake so the filter will do its job, and the rear for my aio/exhaust, I may grab some mesh depending if the front fans pull in a lot of dust or not
 
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Sounds like a plan.
 
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The most commonly given negative effect of negative air pressure. Speaking generically ... the much greater concern is the temperature of the air carrying it in. The factors here are:

1. Case Placement - Is your PC installed in a desk 'cubby', under your desk ? In a corner of a desk in a room corner ? .... On a desk against a wall ? ... is there a baseboard heater behind your desk ? Are their ceiling or other fans within the room ? Your PC case is really just a small version of your room ... just as air temps vary by location with in a case, the vary within a room. Given the typical case placement in one or more of the conditions described above, the air in this area is normally subject to little changeover because of the semi enclosed position of the air space.

2. Heat Recycling - Looking at your link, if a negative pressure situation arises, the path of least resistance for that intake air deficit will be the large open areas on the rear grille and vented slot covers. With little air movement, let's examine any hear sources in this space:

a) is the a baseboard heater on the wall under the rear of the case ?
b) Is your PSU exhausting it's heat at the rear of the case ?
c) Is your GPU(s) exhausting air into that space ?

Do you want the source of your cooling air to be *preheated* by any of those things ?

3. Intake and exhaust fans are created equal but don't function that way. Let's say that your (6) fan mounts have identical fands and are utilized as (3) imtake and (3) exhaust. Do you have balanced air flow ? Your intake air will be impacted by the inlet air filters. Clean they can restrict air 10-15% ... clogged with dust, they can go to 30% or more. Let's pick 20%. And each fan = 1 Equivalent Fan (EF)

3 Exhausts x 100% air flow =3.00 EF
3 Intakes x 80% air flow = 2.40 EF

So you have the equivalent of 0.60 fans coming inn that rear grille / slot covers....

Other factors affect fan placement ... some of these may contradict the others.

4. Water Cooling - i can not understand the logic of having rad fans as exhaust ... back in the day, there were 2 rules of water cooling :

Rule No. 1 - Never mix metals in a water cooling loop... 95% of AIOs break this rule.
Rule No 2 - Rad fans always blow in, no exceptions ... 95% of AIO users break this rule

a) Yes we all learned in 8th grade earth science that hot air rises ... The effect is minimal and there's no giant fan in the sky like we have in a PC case.

b) This is simple thermodynamics. What is cooler ... ambient air or interior case air ? The amount of cooling provided is proportional to Delta T.

Ambient air = 23C / Case Air = 28C / Coolant = 33C

Intake Air Cooling Delta T = 33 - 23 = 10C
Interior Air Cooling Delta T = 28 - 23 = 5C

At these temps, using ambient air is twice as effective ... and since interior case air is always warmer than autise air, blowing in will always be more effective

If you want the coolest CPU temps, you M U S T use the coolest available air source ... thermodynamics ... it's called a law for a reason. And that's why AIO manufacturers tell their customers to install this way.

Corsair AIO Fans.jpg


Unfortunately, with only a rear mount available for a 120mm AIO you are essentially limited to a air exhaust situation.

5. Mounting location - As hinted above, regardless of the above... fan mount locations will most often be the primary determinator of how the fan will be used.

Rear - Here, you will almost always have to do exhaust ... even if it's an AIO.
Front - Again, these are the locations most often equipped with flters and with a open source of air from an unenclosed space, it will almost always be intake.
Bottom - As above
Side - Can go other way subject to location, having an air intake blowing air between XF'd or SLI'd GFX card always helped eliminate the up to 10C difference in temps between top and bottom cards.
Top - Here's the big tossup.... if there's a radiator up there, then the decision is made. The deciding factor here will be the air balance .... If you can have these fans blow out and still maintain positive air pressure with a bit of dust on the filters, you can install this way. If you can't. you are not "getting the heat out of the case" , you are recycling it.

6. Getting the heat out of the case - few people consider the effect of the open grilles on cooling the system. Have a attic fan in your house ? Ever work in a restaurant kitchen ? Did the buildings ever collapse ? They do not collapse because there are available intake sources. In order to remove heat from an enclosed space one needs both an intake air inlet and exhaust air outlet. The air mover can be at either location with no impact. Take a bedroom ... after a hot day, one can place a fan in a window to cool the room down. What happens when you ....

a) place and exhaust fan in a window .... nothing
b) place and intake fan in a window .... nothing
c ) place and exhaust fan in a window and open another window .... the fan will move XY cfm of hot air into the room and replace it with XY cfm cool outside air
d) place and intake fan in a window and open another window .... the fan will move XY cfm of cool outside air into the room and push the hot inside air out of the room

The impact on the room air is temp is the same ... exactly the same

The same thing inside the PC ....

When we put intake fans on the top of the case with a radiator, it pulls in cooler ambient air into the case and push the hot exhaust from the rad and all the heat radiated from the other components out of the case thru the rear case grille. When you put exhaust fans on the top of the case with a radiator, you can't cool the CPU as well as you are using warmer air and you are sucking in air preheated by PSU and GFX card exhaust.

If we are worried about the radiator exhaust impacting other components ... the exhaust heated by the 75 - 120 watts from the typical CPU ? But not worried about the impact on other componenets preheated by 650 watt PSU aor up to 250 watt GFX card ? It must be recognized that a typical mid tower with 6 fans will turn over the entire case air 1.5 - 2 times a second ... The air coming out of a radiator is at worst gong to be 2-3C above ambient ... What component is going to be negatively affected by that temp ? When you exhaust the AIO, you are preheating the air that cools the 75 - 120 watt CPU with about most of the heat from your 250 watt GFX card that was exhausted into the case, but you are also sucking any that went out thru the exterior vent back into the case. You have a small amount of heat from the rad being pushed out of the case by the radiator intake fans thru the rear grill at least 1.5 times a second ... there is no heat buildup.

If you has a 240 / 280mm on the top I would ask .... do you want to use air preheated by your 165 watt GFX card a, 30 watt MoBo, and 20 watts of miscelleaneous compoinents ?

So where do you do from here ?

Front: 3 x 120 or 3 x 140 mm
Top: 2 x 120 mm or 2 x 140 mm
Rear: 1 x 120 mm

If you keep the existing AIO, if using all 120s, I'd expect that youd have a bit worse than the 3.00 EF Exhast / 2.40 EF coming in situation as the AIO likely has an extreme speed fan which will push more air than the others. I would:

Use (3) 140s in the front as intakes ... They should push about 20% more air than 120s of the same model and rpm (3 x 0.80 x 1.20 = 2.88 EF)
The rear AIO as exhaust ...

The top I would leave empty. You don't have large heat load (@ 280 watts) ... The (3) intakes will definitely mainttain enough positive case pressue to force air thru both the rear and top grilles.
 
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I could mount the AIO to the top with the fan pulling air in as opposed to pushing it, though for some reason that always seems to be less efficicient than pushing air in, in my mind, not sure if there's any basis to that? then have 3x120/140 fans in the front as intake and a rear exhaust?

On another note, I did mount the AIO to the front of my current case but I could only mount with the tubes on top and the temps were 15c higher at load than they were when it was rear mounted as an exhaust so I've gone back to that setup for now until the new case arrives anyway.
 
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There is no such thing as "stagnant air pockets", only poor fan placement which will only reduce airflow.
 
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At a glance, that's definitely a 3x front intake and 1x rear + 2x top exhaust.

Since you already have the fans and AIO put the AIO at the top, and your highest CFM fans at the intake. You want positive pressure but the intakes on that case look more restrictive than the exhausts.
 
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I could mount the AIO to the top with the fan pulling air in as opposed to pushing it, though for some reason that always seems to be less efficicient than pushing air in, in my mind, not sure if there's any basis to that? then have 3x120/140 fans in the front as intake and a rear exhaust?

On another note, I did mount the AIO to the front of my current case but I could only mount with the tubes on top and the temps were 15c higher at load than they were when it was rear mounted as an exhaust so I've gone back to that setup for now until the new case arrives anyway.

It's almost the same, and pulling air through is always more efficient than pushing hot air out in terms of cooling.
 
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There is no such thing as "stagnant air pockets", only poor fan placement which will only reduce airflow.
ROTFL!

Okay so admittedly "stagnant" primarily means "no" flow, but a quick check of my Funk & Wagnalls shows is also means "sluggish" or "slow". For example, a stagnant economy means "slow" growth.

Either way, pretty sure it was clear to most that it meant there would be a build up of heat because there was not enough air flowing. Sorry if that was not clear to you.
 
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So top mount the aio with the fan pulling air in, is this generally a good setup? I'm installing in the case now so won't be changing it once I'm done

IMG_20200829_201621.jpg



That's the only place I can put it on the top without it being impeded by the ram or motherboard
 
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So top mount the aio with the fan pulling air in, is this generally a good setup?
It pushes cool outside air through the radiator instead of heated air from inside. So generally, when using a radiator there, this is the best setup.
 
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It pushes cool outside air through the radiator instead of heated air from inside. So generally, when using a radiator there, this is the best setup.
Yes it's pushing the outside air in through the rad. Well I went ahead and stuck with that anyway, build went well, took longer than I anticipated though to get the cable management the way I wanted but overall I'm very happy with it. Trolling with my blue led fans in an all AMD build :laugh: but I like the coolness of the blue over an overpowering red or flashing rainbow coloured rgb


IMG_20200829_224229.jpgIMG_20200829_224311.jpg
 
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Processor AMD 5800X3D
Motherboard Asus X570 Tough Gaming
Cooling Custom liquid
Memory 32 GB DDR4
Video Card(s) Intel ARC A750
Storage Crucial P5 Plus 2TB.
Display(s) AOC 24" Freesync 1m.s. 75Hz
Mouse Lenovo
Keyboard Eweadn Mechanical
Software W11 Pro 64 bit
Yes it's pushing the outside air in through the rad. Well I went ahead and stuck with that anyway, build went well, took longer than I anticipated though to get the cable management the way I wanted but overall I'm very happy with it. Trolling with my blue led fans in an all AMD build :laugh: but I like the coolness of the blue over an overpowering red or flashing rainbow coloured rgb
I prefer the better option of exhausting the heated air through the top, sucking the warm air from the radiator into the case only makes it hotter.
 
Joined
Jan 25, 2006
Messages
1,470 (0.21/day)
Processor Ryzen 1600AF @4.2Ghz 1.35v
Motherboard MSI B450M PRO-A-MAX
Cooling Deepcool Gammaxx L120t
Memory 16GB Team Group Dark Pro Sammy-B-die 3400mhz 14.15.14.30-1.4v
Video Card(s) XFX RX 5600 XT THICC II PRO
Storage 240GB Brave eagle SSD/ 2TB Seagate Barracuda
Display(s) Dell SE2719HR
Case MSI Mag Vampiric 011C AMD Ryzen Edition
Power Supply EVGA 600W 80+
Software Windows 10 Pro
I prefer the better option of exhausting the heated air through the top, sucking the warm air from the radiator into the case only makes it hotter.
The fan is pulling ambient air from the room into the RAD and in turn into the case
 
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
14,179 (3.80/day)
Location
Sunshine Coast
System Name H7 Flow 2024
Processor AMD 5800X3D
Motherboard Asus X570 Tough Gaming
Cooling Custom liquid
Memory 32 GB DDR4
Video Card(s) Intel ARC A750
Storage Crucial P5 Plus 2TB.
Display(s) AOC 24" Freesync 1m.s. 75Hz
Mouse Lenovo
Keyboard Eweadn Mechanical
Software W11 Pro 64 bit
The fan is pulling ambient air from the room into the RAD and in turn into the case
It's only ambient temp until it gets warmed by the Radiator.
 
Joined
Jan 25, 2006
Messages
1,470 (0.21/day)
Processor Ryzen 1600AF @4.2Ghz 1.35v
Motherboard MSI B450M PRO-A-MAX
Cooling Deepcool Gammaxx L120t
Memory 16GB Team Group Dark Pro Sammy-B-die 3400mhz 14.15.14.30-1.4v
Video Card(s) XFX RX 5600 XT THICC II PRO
Storage 240GB Brave eagle SSD/ 2TB Seagate Barracuda
Display(s) Dell SE2719HR
Case MSI Mag Vampiric 011C AMD Ryzen Edition
Power Supply EVGA 600W 80+
Software Windows 10 Pro
It's only ambient temp until it gets warmed by the Radiator.
omg I didnt realise that when you push/pull warm air over something warm it heats up, thank you so much for explaining this to me o_O:laugh::toast:
 
Joined
Jan 25, 2020
Messages
2,251 (1.24/day)
System Name GrandadsBadAss
Processor I7 13700k w/ HEATKILLER IV PRO Copper Nickel
Motherboard MSI Z790 Tomahawk Wifi
Cooling BarrowCH Boxfish 200mm-HWLabs SR2 420/GTS 360-BP Dual D5 MOD TOP- 2x Koolance PMP 450S
Memory 2x16gb G.SKILL Trident Z5 Neo RGB 6400
Video Card(s) Asrock 6800xt PG D w/ Byski A-AR6900XT-X
Storage WD SN850x 1TB NVME M.2/Samsung 980 Pro 1TB NVMe M.2
Display(s) Acer XG270HU
Case Phanteks Enthoo Pro 2 Server Edition w/3 Noctua NF-A14 2000 IP67/4 be quiet! LIGHT WINGS LX 120mm
Audio Device(s) Logitech z623 <---THE SUCK
Power Supply FSP Hydro Ti PRO 1000w
Mouse Logitech G502
Keyboard Roccat Vulcan Aimo
Software Win 10/11pro
Looks good. How are your temps?
 
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