AMD 4th Gen Ryzen "Vermeer" Zen 3 Rumored to Include 10-core Parts

[Caring1]

4600 - 6 core
4600x - 6 core oc
4700 - 8 core
4700x - 8 core oc
4800 - 10 core
4800x - 10 core oc
4900x - 12 core
4950x - 16 core

Maybe?

No love for XT?

 

[Minus Infinity]

Seems clear it will replace 3800X.
AMD is tired of having 8 cores that cost more than other 8 cores and dont sell as much

This makes the most sense. No point for a the current 3800X, so for Zen 3 a line up
4500X - 4 cores
4600X - 6cores
4700X - 8 cores
4800X - 10 cores
4900X -12 cores
4950X - 16 cores

would be very balanced. I would definitely get the 10 core version if true. I wonder if we’ll see a 10 core Rembrandt APU?

 

[watzupken]

This makes the most sense. No point for a the current 3800X, so for Zen 3 a line up
4500X - 4 cores
4600X - 6cores
4700X - 8 cores
4800X - 10 cores
4900X -12 cores
4950X - 16 cores

would be very balanced. I would definitely get the 10 core version if true. I wonder if we’ll see a 10 core Rembrandt APU?

I believe 4 cores model should be Ryzen 3 4300, instead of 4500X. Currently 3500X is a 6 cores processor without SMT. I actually feel the 3500X is pretty redundant considering it is one of the rare processor in the lineup with no SMT.

 

[dicktracy]

Only thing interesting is the improvements in latency with Infinity Fabric 3.0. For Cinebench IPC... ROFL!

 

[Anymal]

4600 - 6 core
4600x - 6 core oc
4700 - 8 core
4700x - 8 core oc
4800 - 10 core
4800x - 10 core oc
4900x - 12 core
4950x - 16 core

Maybe?

Plausible!
Question remains, would it run on b450 am4?

 

[s3thra]

Plausible!
Question remains, would it run on b450 am4?

Seems like it:

AMD Backpedals, Zen 3 Support Coming to B450 and X470

AMD backpedaled on dropping support for its future "Zen 3" processors on AMD 400-series chipset motherboards. The company will work with its motherboard partners in integrating "Zen 3" processor support on certain beta versions of motherboard BIOSes. AMD also detailed how it plans to go about...

www.techpowerup.com

MSI Confirms "Zen 3" Support on its AMD 400-series Chipset Motherboards with 16MB ROMs

MSI confirmed that AMD's "Zen 3" processor support will be added to the company's AMD 400-series chipset motherboards, including the non-MAX SKUs that only have 16 MB EEPROM chips. Marketing Director Eric van Beurden in an MSI Insider video presentation confirmed that with the non-MAX...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[Dux]

Idk should i sell my r5 3600 and upgrade to 8 core ZEN 3? I have X570 motherboard. Also planing on getting RTX 3070.

 

[theGryphon]

I really hope AMD will skip 4XXX series and make a fresh start with 5XXX. Don't they see the current situation is confusing??

 

[Anymal]

It has to be confusing, Intel school.

 

[Jism]

That would be an intriguing product. If the CCX is now the CCD, then it stands to reason that the 8-core Vermeer is going to share the same latency advantages of the 3300X, a scaled-up 3300X if you will.

Meanwhile, the 10-core SKU might have double the write bandwidth and 2 more cores, but it'll also share the current 2-CCD [slight] DRAM latency penalty, not to mention that having only five cores per CCD places it lower than the six-core SKUs in the binning hierarchy, which might not bode well for volt/freq and speeds on that SKU especially if the 8-cores are poised to have their purported improvements.

You forget that DRAM continues to become faster. it's not like you still pair such a CPU with a 2933Mhz kit.

 

[tabascosauz]

You forget that DRAM continues to become faster. it's not like you still pair such a CPU with a 2933Mhz kit.

I don't see how you made that connection at all...Matisse and Renoir's memory controllers already rival Comet Lake, it's still Infinity Fabric that's holding Ryzen back. That extra 1ns+ of DRAM latency on dual CCD isn't something that fast RAM solves; that same fast RAM on single CCD will always be slightly lower latency.

The rumored sharing of L3 amongst an 8-core CCX/D for Vermeer benefits 4/6/8-core SKUs, because like the 3300X all those SKUs would have uniformly low core-core latencies. But the chiplet model would potentially throw this supposed 10-core into the awkward void where the single CCD advantages end but the dual CCD binning advantage wouldn't extend to cover it, unless they artificially lower the 8-core clocks and boost the 12-core clocks even more. Between a 3600 and 3900X, you can allocate the "better" six-core CCDs to the higher end part, but AMD doesn't make and won't be making a 5-core Vermeer so all the bad 5-core CCDs would have only one place to go. And that's without discussing exactly how 5 cores could be distributed asymmetrically in a CCD, even if L3 is shared.

 

[JustAnEngineer]

Is 5+5 any more likely than 6+4?

 

[mahirzukic2]

Is 5+5 any more likely than 6+4?

I like your sig man, both the CPU as well as GPU. I'm kinda in the same boat. Just look at my rig, it's ancient.

 

[bencrutz]

No love for XT?

sure, 4700X (4+4) vs 4700XT (8) a-la 3100 vs 3300

 

[Makaveli]

Hmmm, this is ambiguously worded.

We already have 16-core "chips": the R9 3950x, which features two 8-core chiplets, each with 2-CCDs of 4-cores. Is Zen3 going to be 8-core chiplets with unified L3? Or are they doubling the size to 16-core chiplets with two L3 caches?

Will next generation's "3950x" be 16-core, or 32-core? I think that's the question most of us want answered. I'm betting just a 16-core part, and that this "10-core chip" is just an interesting cost-saving option (like the 12-core 3900x).

They may have alot of defective dies in the 12 core 4900X so creating a 10core version was the next logical solution?

And I think 16 cores is max for AM4. We may see the Max core count go up once we are on DDR5 on the desktop.

 

[dragontamer5788]

They may have alot of defective dies in the 12 core 4900X so creating a 10core version was the next logical solution?

Rumor is that yields are great on Zen2. Its a tiny die, even smaller than the iPhone A12 / A13. And iPhone doesn't need to play "cut down" games at all.

And I think 16 cores is max for AM4. We may see the Max core count go up once we are on DDR5 on the desktop.

3d rendering (Blender), Deep Learning, LTSpice, Chess analysis, H265 (and more) says otherwise.

None of these tasks are memory limited at all, and need grossly more CPU power. There's a reason why some people bought the Threadripper 2990wx. Now with that being said: these heavy tasks are niche (and even then: 3d modeling is both single-thread and multi-thread bound. Single-thread bound on editing, multi-thread bound on rendering. So some 3d modelers are opting for Intel i9 for superior single-thread speeds ).

 

[milewski1015]

Idk should i sell my r5 3600 and upgrade to 8 core ZEN 3? I have X570 motherboard. Also planing on getting RTX 3070.

If you have a use for the extra cores maybe. Wait and see what third party benchmarks have to say about CPU pairings with Ampere - if the 3600 doesn't hinder GPU performance and you don't need the two extra cores, why spend the money?

 

[R0H1T]

We may see the Max core count go up once we are on DDR5 on the desktop.

PCIe 5.0 also DDR5 on AM5 ~ what's not to like, who knows maybe we'll even get the full 555 timer cores from AMD in a special edition package

 

[Chrispy_]

Cool, this will be the new cheapest CPU with 64MB L3 cache, since they'll have to span it over two chiplets.

More cache per thread is what made Zen2 so much better than Zen+, so I suspect this 10-core part will be great. The only downside may be that each 5-core chiplet is low quality silicon so overclocking headroom and FCLK tuning options may be worse than the best single-chiplet SKU.

 

[AddSub]

What are the chances Zen3 aka Zen+++ is just that, supremely refined revision of the first Zen. Still using pokey and latency starved CCX arrangements, stuck in 4GHz land.... those promised IPC boost better not be just YouTuber clickbait (Didn't both Bitwit and LinusTT buy new personal homes just recently?).

(Disclosure: disappointed Ryzen owner.)

...
..
.

 

[R0H1T]

What are the chances Zen3 aka Zen+++ is just that, supremely refined revision of the first Zen.

Technically it is just that, much like ICL or TGL is a super refined Conroe.

 

[dragontamer5788]

What are the chances Zen3 aka Zen+++ is just that, supremely refined revision of the first Zen. Still using pokey and latency starved CCX arrangements, stuck in 4GHz land.... those promised IPC boost better not be just YouTuber clickbait (Didn't both Bitwit and LinusTT buy new personal homes just recently?).

Zen2 had 256-bit AVX added, which is something I definitely would have liked on my Threadripper 1950x (especially because wider-SIMD is amenable to the workloads that you need 16-core / 32-threads for).

Latency is much worse on Threadripper 1950x (Zen1) by every benchmark I've seen, L2, and L3 latencies were improved by Zen+ and Zen2. Absolute latency to DDR4 was also improved.

Its not enough to make me upgrade off of my 1950x, but I was quite surprised at how quickly everything improved. Especially with a 16-core in AM4 / standard motherboards. (Threadripper on Zen2 / Zen3 might be out of my budget now, but high-end AM4 is looking pretty solid now).

Zen2 also improved the CCX communications with their centralized routing chip, such that NUMA is no longer required. (NUMA still improves Zen2 speeds, but its not like Threadripper 1950x where NUMA is basically required if you care about latency at all)

Technically it is just that, much like ICL or TGL is a super refined Conroe.

The 128-bit to 256-bit AVX jump between Zen+ to Zen2 was as big as the Sandy-Bridge -> Haswell jump for Intel. It was quite significant for the workloads that utilize AVX.

 

[Grigor]

single die?

 

[Frick]

What are the chances Zen3 aka Zen+++ is just that, supremely refined revision of the first Zen. Still using pokey and latency starved CCX arrangements, stuck in 4GHz land.... those promised IPC boost better not be just YouTuber clickbait (Didn't both Bitwit and LinusTT buy new personal homes just recently?).

(Disclosure: disappointed Ryzen owner.)

...
..
.

Why are you dissapointed?

Idk should i sell my r5 3600 and upgrade to 8 core ZEN 3? I have X570 motherboard. Also planing on getting RTX 3070.

You should wait for reviews.

 

[mahirzukic2]

You should wait for reviews.

Like always, and just like with everything else.