AMD Navi 21 XT Seemingly Confirmed to Run at ~2.3, 2.4 GHz Clock, 250 W+

[Searing]

Well it did have a rough launch driver wise so first month or so wasn’t great but fiasco is a bit of an exaggeration.

No the 5700 XT had game crashes (random black screen then turn off) for 6+ months. Then it took them 13 months to finally solve my Netflix and Youtube crashes from hardware accelerated decode. That is not acceptable for any company. I was 0/5 for AMD for 5 different customers (had to return or sell all of them) until I bought a 5600 XT from MSI a month ago.

 

[INSTG8R]

No the 5700 XT had game crashes (random black screen then turn off) for 6+ months. Then it took them 13 months to finally solve my Netflix and Youtube crashes from hardware accelerated decode. That is not acceptable for any company.

Hardware acceleration has had issues on both sides with certain apps on and off. Definitely not just an AMD issue.

 

[evernessince]

I was pointing out the 30 series is a worse launch and even that isn't being described as a fiasco. Even you say it yourself the 5700xt launch couldn't be described as a fiasco.

It's funny, that AMD fiasco. Not a single reviewer could replicate the issues. Not saying it didn't happen to some degree but it seems to it was more a bandwagon than a fact finding investigation. I can't tell you how many times I've read "turns out it wasn't my 5700 XT that was the issue" on reddit. It comes as no surprise that random anecdotal evidence on reddit does not qualify as fact. I guess the more people spend, the more they feel it necessary to defend that purchase. Makes sense giving turing was the worst generation price to performance increase wise in Nvidia history.

The 30xx series launch has certainly been a fiasco and we can all verify the facts of that.

 

[TumbleGeorge]

Hardware acceleration has had issues on both sides with certain apps on and off. Definitely not just an AMD issue.

Exactly, all processes corresponds via OS. Microsoft also has fingerprint into quality and efficiency of hardware acceleration. Maybe I'm wrong?

 

[Searing]

I build computers for a living. I built 5 different RX 5700 XT computers, all with completely different parts, and all of them had some kind of severe crashing issue with the RX 5700 XT. I don't need to rely on youtubers for info, I'm more of an expert than they are. Over 100 video cards have passed through my hands in the last year. I know people want AMD to be healthy, but their driver team really messed up in the last year. Every computer without exception fixed by switching to nVidia or an OLD AMD card. The black screen bug was caused by many many different things, and they were playing whack a mole one at a time all year long.

I'll be first in line for the latest AMD card, but believe me I'm only giving them one or two chances.

 

[squallheart]

Wait what ? What about the encoding engine with the on pair features that was there for ages? VCE ?
I use A's video converter (free) for simple recodings if the quality doesn't matter (ans speed is preferred.... on the other hand with a 3960X it doesn't really make that much difference...).
If I want to achieve a high quality then no HW encoder is able to deliver it. Only high quality 2-pass encoding on a CPU.

You do realize it doesn’t perform as well as NVENC both in speed and quality right? This fanboism is hilarious to me.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

I get it. That doesn't mean it still wasn't a significant issue. If 98% of people were fine before and 97% were during the peak.. that's 50% more issues. It was enough of a problem that amd had to publically address it. There were threads all over here, there, reddit, and everywhere. More than the usual background static for sure... for several months. The blackscreen issue was "known" (listed) on their release notes for months. I dont call that hype. I would call it a non issue at this point.

I didn't say there wasn't a significant issue, just that not everyone was effected, your playing it up and clearly you think I'm downplaying it, so it's likely between the two eh.
We both agree those issues are in the past and I'm sure we both agree they could return at any moment, for any brand , the quality control on software isn't what it could be in most companies IMHO.

 

[deltaseven]

I'm very much curious about the CU count on the XTX variant as the XT should have 80CU and is supposed to be the one shown on October 8th during Zen 3 announcement.

If price is right and drivers are also fine at launch, the car lineup is to be success.

I've read some more info here and there and about the clock speed around the Navi21 variants.

I'll leave this here as additional to "tweeting rumors" of the day:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317731737347248129

 

[INSTG8R]

Thing is the black screen issue stil creeps randomly and even with being set up to collect crash dumps and the crash mitigations that are currently in place, getting data to send to AMD has proven difficult but without some kind of log/dump files to pinpoint the issue it still remains random and elusive. I’ve personally never had one but was trying to help someone who was and hoping he’d have a dump or a log to forward but alas nope...

 

[evernessince]

I build computers for a living. I built 5 different RX 5700 XT computers, all with completely different parts, and all of them had some kind of severe crashing issue with the RX 5700 XT. I don't need to rely on youtubers for info, I'm more of an expert than they are. Over 100 video cards have passed through my hands in the last year. I know people want AMD to be healthy, but their driver team really messed up in the last year. Every computer without exception fixed by switching to nVidia. The black screen bug was caused by many many different things, and they were playing whack a mole one at a time all year long.

I'll be first in line for the latest AMD card, but believe me I'm only giving them one or two chances.

Statistically speaking having 5 cards with problems is extremely unlikely. Typical GPU RMA rate is 0.8%. AMD's 5700 XT return rate was 1.7% at the height of the driver issues.

Just saying, if your return rate for AMD is 100% either you are one in a billion unlucky or there is something else going on.

 

[Steevo]

AMD's trademark: driver problems, to this day not solved.
And yes, it is power hungry. 5700 has better perf/W than its direct competitor, 5700XT, pushed a little harder, doesn't.
Personally, I wouldn't call 5700XT a fisaco (if you didn't care about RTRT, it is basically a 2070 for $100 less), but it certainly seemed to have more problems than usual. One problem actually, but very annoying knowing AMD couldn't solve it.

Sorry, but wut.

I pre-ordered my 9600XT and had zero issues with it. The 9xxx series was pretty good, and came with HL2 where the ATI drivers worked (without washed out colors) unlike Nvidia, and better performance and their AF actually worked at the time.

Half Life 2 GPU Roundup Part 2 - Mainstream DX8/DX9 Battle

www.anandtech.com

 

[Emu]

No the 5700 XT had game crashes (random black screen then turn off) for 6+ months. Then it took them 13 months to finally solve my Netflix and Youtube crashes from hardware accelerated decode. That is not acceptable for any company. I was 0/5 for AMD for 5 different customers (had to return or sell all of them) until I bought a 5600 XT from MSI a month ago.

Funnily enough, I have that same issue still with my RTX 2080 ti with crashing to desktop and/or the screen turning off. It is random enough that I cannot just return my card though.

 

[Jism]

It's funny, that AMD fiasco. Not a single reviewer could replicate the issues. Not saying it didn't happen to some degree but it seems to it was more a bandwagon than a fact finding investigation. I can't tell you how many times I've read "turns out it wasn't my 5700 XT that was the issue" on reddit. It comes as no surprise that random anecdotal evidence on reddit does not qualify as fact. I guess the more people spend, the more they feel it necessary to defend that purchase. Makes sense giving turing was the worst generation price to performance increase wise in Nvidia history.

The 30xx series launch has certainly been a fiasco and we can all verify the facts of that.

Yep. PCI-E 4.0 and certain overclocked memory profiles, caused issues. When people turned down memory settings, suddenly the card worked perfect. Not AMD's fault for voiding stability when overclocking.

 

[Punkenjoy]

Yep. PCI-E 4.0 and certain overclocked memory profiles, caused issues. When people turned down memory settings, suddenly the card worked perfect. Not AMD's fault for voiding stability when overclocking.

Indeed

Many people were strongly GPU limited and didn't realised that their CPU Overclock wasn't stable at all. By putting a much faster GPU, the cpu finally had enough work to clock high enough to cause stability issue. It do not mean that Windows say your cpu is clocking at x frequency that it's actually doing that. By example my R5 3600 don't even clock at base clock in game due to me being GPU limited (no wonder why i am commenting on GPU news... lol)

The truth is people that had similar experience on Nvidia side thought about their CPU where on AMD with their bad driver reputation, they automatically got the blame.

But taht do not means some had real driver issue. But these aren't just AMD, you can have rare issue on Nvidia side too. But on AMD side they will blame the GPU, on Nvidia, they will blame all the rest of the system.

But in the end, NAVI was a new architecture and the driver had to mature. I suspect the change from Navi 10 to Navi 21 aren't large enough to have big drivers issues. That do not means there won't be, Even Nvidia had some with the 3080.


But the good news is this market is getting very competitive. That is the best thing that can happen for us. More than just AMD destroying Nvidia or vice versa (oh god ... these click bait video on youtube...)

 

[Searing]

Statistically speaking having 5 cards with problems is extremely unlikely. Typical GPU RMA rate is 0.8%. AMD's 5700 XT return rate was 1.7% at the height of the driver issues.

Just saying, if your return rate for AMD is 100% either you are one in a billion unlucky or there is something else going on.

Having 5 cards with problems from the drivers is absolutely likely. The cards are not broken. It isn't about returns. It is about not working properly. People keep stuff that crashes too much, but it wouldn't crash with an RX 580 or nVidia card. RMA or not means nothing. If I build a computer for someone and I get called back to fix it, then I know the issue. The card isn't returned. They'll give you a replacement that has the same problem as the hardware isn't the issue, the drivers are.

 

[PrEzi]

You do realize it doesn’t perform as well as NVENC both in speed and quality right? This fanboism is hilarious to me.

And here you are completely missing my point (reading with understanding problems?). Where did I said that VCE is better? Where did I stated that I find this solution superior?
I am not a streamer, I don't give a damn about OBS or whatsoever.
If I want a quality video material then by all means I don't use either NVENC or VCE, I use tuned 2-pass profiles and encoding on the Threadripper 3960X.

Calling someone a fanboy without understanding the point is hilarious to me.

 

[Searing]

Funnily enough, I have that same issue still with my RTX 2080 ti with crashing to desktop and/or the screen turning off. It is random enough that I cannot just return my card though.

The AMD issue is very specific. The screen goes black, the audio continues, then it hard crashes. There were MANY different things causing that to happen. I'd love for AMD to give an explanation but they won't. Crashing to desktop is very different and not as severe. I hope you can find a fix. Try underclocking your card, crashes to desktop are a lot easier to get a handle on than hard faults.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

It isn't about returns. It is about not working properly. People keep stuff that doesn't work and that crashes, but it wouldn't crash with an RX 580 or nVidia card.

I had a different experience , I have a gtx460X2 ,A Gtx560 too that were always a nightmare and just dead respectively, they're in the draw of doom I kept them my first Polaris and this Vega will be there before long but all the AMD card's have on my life, continuously crunched, folded or for a bit mined on AMD driver's both stock , heavily over clocked on air and water solidly, I wouldn't knock your experiences though I have not used an rDNA card, there were architectural differences that require massive driver change's so I wouldn't be surprised if they had issues, evidently they did, excuse the pre emptive post.

 

[Searing]

Best part I’m sure many may not have even noticed was when “The Fixes” driver was released the. Boost clocks were raised so basically everyone got decent OC for their troubles.

I'll take a fix after one week over a fix after 13 months any day though

I had a different experience , I have a gtx460X2 ,A Gtx560 too that were always a nightmare and just dead respectively, they're in the draw of doom I kept them my first Polaris and this Vega will be there before long but all the AMD card's have on my life, continuously crunched, folded or for a bit mined on AMD driver's both stock , heavily over clocked on air and water solidly, I wouldn't knock your experiences though I have not used an rDNA card, there were architectural differences that require massive driver change's so I wouldn't be surprised if they had issues, evidently they did, excuse the pre emptive post.

I've had tons and tons of AMD cards with no problems. The 5700 XT is different. In fact I used to consider nVidia's drivers to be worse historically (the Vista problems). I also had all nVidia cards crashing Hearthstone with certain high FPS monitors, and GTA5 so I used to actually replace nVidia cards with AMD cards to solve those problems (it took Blizzard a few years, but the Hearthstone launch crash has been fixed now).

I'm just worried the partisanship has really led AMD fans and even AMD itself to not take their driver issues seriously. (Hopefully they've reorganized their team and hired more people). They can't afford the 5700 XT fiasco to happen again with their next launch. I also found AMD's support to be dismissive. Like I'll show the "gpu accelerated bug" caused my GPU to go to 100 percent usage and drop frame rates in youtube to a few fps, and file a report and they'll say "we can't replicate that issue" and that's it. Like one guy tries it, discounts it, and gives up. Never fixes it. People won't be AMD customers for long with that kind of quality.

 

[evernessince]

Having 5 cards with problems from the drivers is absolutely likely. The cards are not broken. It isn't about returns. It is about not working properly. People keep stuff that crashes too much, but it wouldn't crash with an RX 580 or nVidia card. RMA or not means nothing. If I build a computer for someone and I get called back to fix it, then I know the issue. The card isn't returned. They'll give you a replacement that has the same problem as the hardware isn't the issue, the drivers are.

No because polls from hardware unboxed 3 months back suggest that only 7% of card owners were having severe issues like what you were describing (and lets be honest here, a number of those users are likely Nvidia owners checking the box that makes AMD look worst). You are suggesting that 100% of 5700 / 5700 XTs had issues and that simply isn't true. I should not have to say that though, if 100% had issues, drivers or otherwise, AMD would have been decimated. Why you make the assumption that 5/5 cards having issues is "likely" . No, in no universe is it. None of the data supports that and we haven't ever seen anywhere near 100%.

My prior statement stands: Either you are extraordinary unlucky or there is something else going on.

I'm just worried the partisanship has really led AMD fans and even AMD itself to not take their driver issues seriously. (Hopefully they've reorganized their team and hired more people). They can't afford the 5700 XT fiasco to happen again with their next launch. I also found AMD's support to be dismissive. Like I'll show the "gpu accelerated bug" caused my GPU to go to 100 percent usage and drop frame rates in youtube to a few fps, and file a report and they'll say "we can't replicate that issue" and that's it. Like one guy tries it, discounts it, and gives up. Never fixes it. People won't be AMD customers for long with that kind of quality.

No one's saying AMD shouldn't improve it's drivers. Navi clearly had / has issues.

The problem is when people come into threads making claims like 100% of AMD cards have issues. You can't complain about partisanship when you yourself added to it.

 

[dinmaster]

the issues thing would have been front page news like the nvidia shortage of 3000 series cards if everyone was having the problems... move on

 

[EarthDog]

I didn't say there wasn't a significant issue, just that not everyone was effected, your playing it up and clearly you think I'm downplaying it, so it's likely between the two eh.
We both agree those issues are in the past and I'm sure we both agree they could return at any moment, for any brand , the quality control on software isn't what it could be in most companies IMHO.

lol, I'm not playing it up. I'm a realist. The issue wasn't hyped. I'll leave it at that.

 

[renz496]

If RDNA2 can do what the HD4xxx series did at the time, I think that will be good news for consumers.

good news to consumer but it can be more damaging to AMD.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

good news to consumer but it can be more damaging to AMD.

How can a good card be bad for AMD as Xfx have shown, there's a market for all their old cards, the new, well see.

Unlike some I think there's room for more profitable GPU vendors not less.

Back in the dawn of 3d the pliable market was small so many a maker went under or we're bought, now two is far from enough, or balance.

 

[INSTG8R]

How can a good card be bad for AMD as Xfx have shown, there's a market for all their old cards, the new, well see.

Yeah talking about all these “Navi issues” And XFX really didn’t help with their release...thankfully the came out with a redesign that it now one of the better regarded cards