80 Plus Hikes its Testing and Licensing Fees, Could Affect Prices of Low-Volume PSU Models

[mechtech]

Couldn't PSU makers get around this by just running the same model for 10 years instead of making new models all the time?

 

[KarymidoN]

Couldn't PSU makers get around this by just running the same model for 10 years instead of making new models all the time?

its not that easy, tecnology keeps changing and getting better, as capacitors become more efficient you (as a manufacturer) have to upgrade your product line with new Models with these new ones so your PSU its not behind the competition (and you have to re-certify it).
Same thing goes to every other small component of the PSU... not only parts keep changing, but also tecnology, manufacturing procces evolves and allows new products with more efficiency, costing less to produce, having a lighter PSU, etc... if you choose to not inovate you will sooner or later become obslete and the competition will trive (see intel getting matched by AMD because of that).

 

[damric]

Guys getting all reviewers (whoever is still active anyway in this field) on the same page is impossible for several reasons. First of all, they need to use similar and calibrated equipment. Not all people can afford this kind of equipment. Secondly, you have to be 100% sure that the provided results are unbiased. Finally, all should follow the same methodology exactly and have of course the required equipment to do so. All the above can be forced through an ISO 17025 certification which ensures that you follow the proper methodology and you have the proper equipment. This ISO also has mechanisms to ensure that your results are valid and unbiased.

All the above cost huge money and who will cover the cost?

A fully-featured lab has increased maintenance costs which cannot be covered by a 2k certification (although in this case they only take 3-5 readings at most so it is a 30-60 min job). Someone can argue here, though, that 80 P doesn't run any tests but still, they have to pay subcontractors to do their job and also make a profit.

I just watched your latest video today with that 80+ EVGA blowing up. Cracked me up.

 

[R-T-B]

Couldn't PSU makers get around this by just running the same model for 10 years instead of making new models all the time?

Only if they don't change anything.

 

[Caring1]

So you pay a significant amount of $'s in order to legal use the 80 plus sticker onto your product?

Any PSU manufacturer can claim to be 80+ it's the certification that costs money.
Do as the Chinese do, just whack an 80+ sticker on but don't add the "certified" to it.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I'm going to have to side with the users that side with the "I don't care that much." school of thought. What we need is an open industry standard that everyone can adopt and design specs to without all the rigmarole. It's not like review sites aren't going to test on their own anyway.

 

[bug]

I'm going to have to side with the users that side with the "I don't care that much." school of thought. What we need it an open industry standard that everyone can adopt and design specs to without all the rigmarole. It's not like review sites aren't going to test on their own anyway.

The obvious (imho) problem with that is review sites don't cover even 5% of the PSUs out there...

 

[-The_Mask-]

That means we would have to rely on review sites and tier lists like LTTs more often, not that that would be a bad thing.

Hope you aren't serious about the tier list....

 

[evernessince]

It's nice to have but not required if they are going to increase pricing that much.

 

[Bansaku]

Organic, Hi-Rex Audio, THX, Nintendo's Seal of Quality, and now 80-Plus. Wake up people, these "certifications" are nothing more than a marketing scheme coupled with extortion. Unfortunately too many suckers rely on these badges as marks of quality.

 

[lexluthermiester]

The obvious (imho) problem with that is review sites don't cover even 5% of the PSUs out there...

Good point!

 

[R-T-B]

Any PSU manufacturer can claim to be 80+ it's the certification that costs money.
Do as the Chinese do, just whack an 80+ sticker on but don't add the "certified" to it.

Using the logo without the cert is actually a trademark violation, not that the China PSUs care one bit.

Hope you aren't serious about the tier list....

People here reference it a scary amount, frankly.

 

[DeathtoGnomes]

Hope you aren't serious about the tier list....

Why not? a tier list is mostly for a quick reference on quality. its not set in stone. LTTs is based on several factors, go read how its made up. I cant count how many times how everyone on TPU has argued and disagreed with someone over which PSU is better. If all those disagreements were put together into a rated list, we have the start of another tier list ala LTT.

 

[Flanker]

I believe Corsair (at least used to) stick a small graph on the box showing efficiency vs load at 110V and 230V. I can live with that

 

[Countryside]

Well in my experience the 80 plus gold and platinum rated psus are usually of a very good build quality but not always, thats why they are reviews out there for those who need it.

 

[-The_Mask-]

Using the logo without the cert is actually a trademark violation, not that the China PSUs care one bit.

A lot of brands have done that were available all over the world.

People here reference it a scary amount, frankly.

That's bad...

Why not? a tier list is mostly for a quick reference on quality. its not set in stone. LTTs is based on several factors, go read how its made up. I cant count how many times how everyone on TPU has argued and disagreed with someone over which PSU is better. If all those disagreements were put together into a rated list, we have the start of another tier list ala LTT.

There isn't any logic in it. It's just random. I've asked many times the logic after a random PSU place. They never could give an answer.

 

[R-T-B]

A lot of brands have done that were available all over the world.

And there are cellphones that sell all over the world with closed source linux kernels in flagrant violation of the GPL. Just because it's illegal outside China, doesn't mean China won't sell it there.

 

[-The_Mask-]

And there are cellphones that sell all over the world with closed source linux kernels in flagrant violation of the GPL. Just because it's illegal outside China, doesn't mean China won't sell it there.

Almost all brands that sold many different PSU's over the years have done it at some point. Even brands like Corsair and EVGA. Just look it up, there is no 80PLUS Bronze or Gold certificate for the EVGA SuperNOVA B1 and G1 series. By Corsair there where some TX PSU's which weren't certified after they switched from manufacturer. It wasn't that these PSU's weren't able to reach the 80PLUS certificate, it was just simple cost cutting.

 

[silentbogo]

Do as the Chinese do, just whack an 80+ sticker on but don't add the "certified" to it.

Yep, those funny 85+ and 92+ stickers always crack me up, but I guess we'll be going back to those quite soon.

I'm going to have to side with the users that side with the "I don't care that much." school of thought. What we need it an open industry standard that everyone can adopt and design specs to without all the rigmarole. It's not like review sites aren't going to test on their own anyway.

Review sites only test "interesting" PSU models, and leave out many low-to-mid range PSUs, which you'd find in your average PC outthere. I think only Russian gecid and ixbt tend to cling to "people's choice" rather than what's trending.

Why not? a tier list is mostly for a quick reference on quality. its not set in stone. LTTs is based on several factors, go read how its made up. I cant count how many times how everyone on TPU has argued and disagreed with someone over which PSU is better. If all those disagreements were put together into a rated list, we have the start of another tier list ala LTT.

I've never even looked at it until today, and I can tell you right now that this list is total garbage, especially when it comes to mid-range and budget PSUs.
They've put Seasonic S12II on the same tier as firehazard Vinga with internals of a stripped-down FSP Qdion.
Their tier D has lots of models that should never be considered for modern systems (chinese crap, PSUs w/ passive PFC etc)
Tier B has at least 3 high-risk models....and upper echelons are a mess.

And there are cellphones that sell all over the world with closed source linux kernels in flagrant violation of the GPL. Just because it's illegal outside China, doesn't mean China won't sell it there.

There are tons of devices from well-known brands that have GPL violations. It's not just "China"-thing.

 

[bug]

Unfortunately too many suckers rely on these badges as marks of quality.

80 Plus isn't about quality, it's about levels of efficiency. Two different beasts.

 

[Countryside]

80 Plus isn't about quality, it's about levels of efficiency. Two different beasts.

Not a lot of that efficiency on those low quality psus. Two different beasts but yet connected.
Platinum or titanium rated psus from known brands have very good build quality but i don't doubt that there are exceptions out there.

 

[-The_Mask-]

Not a lot of that efficiency on those low quality psus. Two different beasts but yet connected.
Platinum or titanium rated psu from known brands have very good build quality.

Because they choose to make a high quality one with high efficiency. If one chooses to make a low quality PC killing high efficient PSU, there is nothing that stops them. Don't forget we already had bad performing 80PLUS Platinum PSU's based on FSP Aurum 92+ design. But much worse is also easy possible. Because there simply isn't a correlation.

 

[bug]

Not a lot of that efficiency on those low quality psus.

Not a lot of 80 Plus certificates on them either.

Two different beasts but yet connected.

The only connection is it's harder to meet 80 Plus certification levels with crap components across the board.

Platinum or titanium rated psus from known brands have very good build quality but i don't doubt that there are exceptions out there.

See above.

 

[Aquinus]

As long as they are giving efficiency numbers with their units, why not?

The whole charging for the certification and then charging to put the logo on the box it stupid. If you get the certification, you should be able to put the logo on the box. The 80+ certification is killing itself, and it's a perfect time for another organization to come in and start to do efficiency certifications.

This. I think some organization should be doing it, but it might be time for a change.

 

[Vayra86]

Lets see if 80 Plus certification is worth it to the masses. I personally don't care too much about it.

Exactly, its becoming clearer that the higher efficiency ratings don't really matter for most and the label is never a real indicator of 'quality' which is what it represents in the minds of many.

This is fine. PSUs are hit or miss anyway you always gotta check what you get. I'm all for things that inspire customer due diligence, and the label was shortcut for it, but not a very good one.