How horrible is my PSU? Should i change it before upgrading my GPU

[thunderingroar]

When i was building my PC i was on a budget and i had to cut corners somewhere, so i did it with PSU and the case. Initially the case was absolutely horrid, but i removed the glass front panel and now the 3pin fans are blasting at full speed i just have to clean it more often.
The bad part comes with this 720W PSU, its non modular, claims 85-89% efficiency on the spec sheet yet it doesnt have 80+ certification at all (honestly a giant red flag), has ketchup and mustard cables, but it was around 40€ and it had decent reviews on amazon so i went for it. Fast forward to couple of weeks ago there was a very quick blackout in my town (lasted under 1 second) and my PC actually restarted instead of just powering off, this seemed odd and im not even sure if its PSU's fault. Other than that i didnt have any other issues with it, even when PC was on full load for many hours.
Now i saved up some money and i was thinking of upgrading my used RX 580 to something like 6700XT or 3060 ti and also my current PSU's 12V rail seems to be fully capable of powering a 200-230W GPU

but the last thing i want is installing a shiny new GPU and seeing crackle/smoke when i turn it on. Should i get a quality PSU first (if so i would appriciate some recommendations) and delay the GPU upgrade or am i just being paranoid? And yes i know that a higher efficiency PSU will pay itself in electricity bills in year or two.

An alternative option is maybe even getting like a 1200VA UPS to improve power stability and i heard those things can help iron out the power delivery.

Edit: i just remember that it came with a shitty power cable that had slightly shorter plug which wouldnt go all the way in and it sometimes made crackly/static noises, and when i would slightly move my PC to left or right sometimes it would shut it down, i replaced the cable early on tho.

 

[Jose Jeswin]

1.PSU-buy immediately..
2.All the rest later..

 

[FreedomEclipse]

40€ for 700w? Im willing to bet its closer to 250-300w. I wouldnt of bought it and if i did, i wouldnt even plug it in.

You want something from at least tier B or C -- A if you can afford it

::EDIT::

Im always weary of reviews on amazon because its been known that a lot of manufacturers and merchants will pay money to botters to leave positive reviews on their products. Only 20 people left a review on your Argus PSU, I would have stayed completely away from it. 20 positive reviews is not enough to tell if a product is good or not and judging by the price Its not going to be good unless you use it with an extremely low end system that doesnt pull much power from mains.

Products with thousands of reviews are slightly more trustworthy, because even though reviews still could have been botted, there is a higher chance that people who actually bought the product would leave a review -- you just have to be smart and read through a few pages of them and you'll start noticing how they structure their reviews in the same way or use the same words/phrases to praise the product. Some accounts exist souly to leave positive reviews on stuff rather than actually belonging to a random joe who buys stuff on amazon.

 

[dgianstefani]

Get a nice Seasonic Focus Plus gold minimum. If you want to forget about replacing the psu for the next ten years at least, spring for a Seasonic Prime GX/PX/TX.

There's also a psu tier list floating around somewhere, get anything in the top two tiers if you can't afford Seasonic.

As a rule, aim for twice your average load, and at least 30% higher than your peak system wattage. Psu are most efficient around 50% capacity load. There's various calculators around where you put your specs in and it estimates.

 

[dirtyferret]

i was on a budget and i had to cut corners somewhere,

Looks like you are not the only one, Inter-Tech has sent several of their units for 80 plus testing but not that one. Considering how easy it is to pass 80 plus testing (the OEM gets to cherry pick the unit and testing done at room temp) I would say there are several corners cut in that unit and since they won't send it out for third party testing you (and your PC) will probably have to find out the hard way which corners were cut.

Get a nice Seasonic Focus Plus gold minimum.

 

[milewski1015]

its non modular,

i replaced the cable early on tho.

I don't trust it in your current system, let alone trusting a brand new GPU (good luck hunting for one, you'll need it) on that PSU, especially if you're frankenstein-ing cables onto it. This PSU sounds like a house fire waiting to happen. As @Jose Jeswin said, get a new PSU ASAP.

 

[Bill_Bright]

And yes i know that a higher efficiency PSU will pay itself in electricity bills in year or two.

Well, not really - not unless the old is very inefficient, the new is very efficient AND the computer is used for many hours every day performing very demanding (power consuming) tasks. Even then, it is likely to take considerably more than a "year or two" to make up the difference.

Also, it is important to note a few other facts.

Genuine 80 PLUS certification does NOT imply "quality".​

A lack of 80 PLUS certification does NOT automatically imply inferior quality or poor efficiency.​

Wired (non-modular) does NOT imply lower quality.​

Wired does imply fewer parts and connections that can go bad.​

Fast forward to couple of weeks ago there was a very quick blackout in my town (lasted under 1 second)

When you say "fast forward to couple weeks ago" - how new is this PSU? Was it working fine before the power outage?

Note these type very short outages ("fluctuations") can actually be the most damaging as opposed to outages that last minutes or longer. It is not the drop in power itself but when the power returns that is the problem. The moment the power is restored is often accompanied by extreme spikes and surges - capable of doing damage to even the highest quality power supplies (hence the reason I say all computers should be on a good UPS with AVR).

When i was building my PC i was on a budget and i had to cut corners somewhere, so i did it with PSU and the case.

Of course hindsight is (or should be) 20/20. The case and especially the PSU are the last places where cutting corners in the budget should be avoided. A quality case and PSU form the foundation for a system that can provide many years of evolving upgrades. I like to ask, "would you buy a brand new Porsche then fill it up with fuel from the corner Tobacco and Bait shop?"

In any event, you at least need to beg or borrow a PSU from a trusting friend or relative and swap it in there to see what happens BEFORE you spend money on anything else.

Im always weary of reviews on amazon because its been known that a lot of manufacturers and merchants will pay money to botters to leave positive reviews on their products.

I agree that only 20 reviews is a red flag. But there's another reason not to trust "user reviews" (on any site, not just Amazon). For one, "happy users" don't normally write reviews. And if they do, it is typically only after a day or two of use, not months or in a year or two. Most user reviewers are not qualified to properly evaluate products - especially high-tech electronics that require using precision measuring test equipment, and having the knowledge to use them. And they don't have competing products to compare with.

Also, many products are down-rated because it was the wrong color, the Post Office delivered it next door, FedEx delivered it a day late, or the box looked like it fell off the UPS truck.

I look at user reviews but I only pay attention if there are many reviews that complain about the exact same and specific problem - and even then I take those with a grain of salt.

 

[milewski1015]

The case and especially the PSU are the last places where cutting corners in the budget should be avoided.

I agree about the PSU but there's an argument that can be made for cheaping out on the case. I agree that a solid case will last many years and multiple builds (barring some crazy ATX standard change), but if you're tight in terms of budget, at the end of the day the case is just a metal box to put everything in. Yeah, a quality case will allow for better cooling, be of better build quality, and provide a better building/cable management experience. But if it's between a better case or bumping your GPU up a tier, I'm going with the better performing GPU 99% of the time. There are passable $30-40 case options, and in a pinch you could always just run everything test bench-style on top of the motherboard box. Not an ideal situation, sure, but again, I think performance per dollar is most important when building on a tight budget, and aside from potential cooling hazards, the case isn't a performance-determining component.

 

[Bill_Bright]

at the end of the day the case is just a metal box to put everything in.

Nope. Not even. And you even explained why. Cooling! It is the case's responsibility to provide a sufficient supply of cool air flowing through the case. The CPU's cooler need only toss the CPU's heat into that air flow.

It is also the case's responsibility to protect the components inside from accident kicks and bumps - but that's a lessor requirement.

I am NOT saying you need to spend $200 on a case during your initial build. You don't even have to spend $100 to get a quality case. I just said the case (along with the PSU) form the "foundation" for a system that can support years of upgrades.

The GPU does NOT form or support the foundation - it depends on the foundation to support it! In fact, many computers and their users don't even need a separate graphics card for their "mission critical" zero-downtime allowed, essential purposes!

So what's a quality case? A quality case is one that supports multiple "large" (at least 120mm, preferably 140mm or larger) case fans (not counting HTPC cases). A quality case has "finished" sheet metal edges - edges that have been rolled or ground down so they don't have jagged edges that shred knuckles. And most importantly, a quality case is "true". That is, it has exactly 90.0° bends at all the corners. A "true" case ensures all 4 feet sit firmly on the floor so the case does not wobble on 3 and so the motherboard, cards, drives, etc. mount squarely in/on their mounting points instead of being forced into a twist that puts undue stress on those devices.

Side windows, removable washable filters, thumb screws, tool-less assembly, removable drive bays, noise deadening materials, motherboard trays, etc. are just "features" - maybe even mandatory in your book (and mine). But they are extra features - not necessities for what makes a quality case needed to form a solid "foundation".

 

[milewski1015]

Nope. Not even. And you even explained why. Cooling! It is the case's responsibility to provide a sufficient supply of cool air flowing through the case. The CPU's cooler need only toss the CPU's heat into that air flow.

It is also the case's responsibility to protect the components inside from accident kicks and bumps - but that's a lessor requirement.

Agreed, but you don't necessarily need a case to provide cooling. Just plug some fans in or point a desk fan over the motherboard while it's resting on the box. Sure, it's ghetto, but it's free. I certainly wouldn't be putting a motherboard box rig on the floor, so I'd argue a desktop setup is in less danger. Not danger-free of course, but not at as much of a massive risk.

I am NOT saying you need to spend $200 on a case during your initial build. You don't even have to spend $100 to get a quality case. I just said the case (along with the PSU) form the "foundation" for a system that can support years of upgrades.

The GPU does NOT form or support the foundation - it depends on the foundation to support it! In fact, many computers and their users don't even need a separate graphics card for their "mission critical" zero-downtime allowed, essential purposes!

I agree. You definitely can find quality cases for much less than $100. Sure, if by foundation you mean structurally, then yeah, the case forms that. When I'm thinking of the foundation of a PC, I'm thinking of what it can do, and in general the case doesn't affect that, with the exception being you buy an enclosed box that cuts off all airflow and causes your components to overheat and die (see GN's coverage on the DIYPC Zondda-O or the Abkoncore Ramesses 780 for example). Maybe foundation isn't the best word to use - I'm thinking more of potential.
I just used GPU as an example as it can be a performance-determining component. Obviously that depends on your use for the system - your typical Office suite user/Facebook browser/email viewer doesn't need a dedicated GPU. But I would also argue that they're not necessarily the people that are going to build their own system. I'm talking about your younger (teenage) gamer that maybe doesn't have a ton of income and has saved up a couple hundred bucks.

So what's a quality case? A quality case is one that supports multiple "large" (at least 120mm, preferably 140mm or larger) case fans (not counting HTPC cases). A quality case has "finished" sheet metal edges - edges that have been rolled or ground down so they don't have jagged edges that shred knuckles. And most importantly, a quality case is "true". That is, it has exactly 90.0° bends at all the corners. A "true" case ensures all 4 feet sit firmly on the floor so the case does not wobble on 3 and so the motherboard, cards, drives, etc. mount squarely in/on their mounting points instead of being forced into a twist that puts undue stress on those devices.

Side windows, removable washable filters, thumb screws, tool-less assembly, removable drive bays, noise deadening materials, motherboard trays, etc. are just "features" - maybe even mandatory in your book (and mine). But they are extra features - not necessities for what makes a quality case needed to form a solid "foundation".

Again, I agree with that sentiment. I generally tend to recommend cases in the $50-60 range for lower-priced builds (CM NR600, Phanteks P300A, etc) if budget allows, but they come with features (mesh fronts, tempered glass, etc.) that are certainly "nice-to-haves" and not "need-to-haves". Cheaper quality cases exist, and can be recommended if the builder is looking to prioritize performance per dollar.

I think we're both circling around a relatively similar conclusion about what's necessary for a case to be "quality". I just think that if budget is really tight and you're confident you'll be careful enough with a ghetto'd motherboard box/desk fan combo, you can forego getting a case out of the gate and add one later as budget allows.

 

[thunderingroar]

There's also a psu tier list floating around somewhere, get anything in the top two tiers if you can't afford Seasonic.

I found few PSUs from that tierlist available in my country, BQ straight power 11 750W, BQ pure power 11 700W, Deepcool DQ750M and Fractal design ion+ 760P, they re all around 100-150€ (seasonic ones tend to be more expensive for some reason) so im not sure which one to choose.

When you say "fast forward to couple weeks ago" - how new is this PSU? Was it working fine before the power outage?

its about 6months old and it worked fine so far, im just paranoid about the future

 

[dgianstefani]

I found few PSUs from that tierlist available in my country, BQ straight power 11 750W, BQ pure power 11 700W, Deepcool DQ750M and Fractal design ion+ 760P, they re all around 100-150€ (seasonic ones tend to be more expensive for some reason) so im not sure which one to choose.

As above. Any in top two of the tierlist that has enough wattage.

 

[RJARRRPCGP]

Genuine 80 PLUS certification does NOT imply "quality".​

​

QFT, especially the CoolerMaster MWEs (OCF grilled CM for their MWE in their review of an MWE) and most Thermaltake PSUs now, even at least some Toughpowers. Avoid a PSU from Tt unless it's a Toughpower Grand!

 

[DeathtoGnomes]

I have to side with @milewski1015 on the case thing. Its not detrimental to a build. A case made from duct tape and cardboard would suffice. A breadboard case works too.