AMD Overtakes Intel in Puget Systems Processor Sales

[Shatun_Bear]

I would much rather own stability than fan boy toys.

I would much rather own stability, best performance and security, so I guess Intel is completely out of the picture. Will probably stay that way for years and years.

 

[Chrispy_]

I have not seen this at all. I live in Tennessee and getting the Ryzen 5000 series has been pretty easy. The only CPUs that have been hard to get is the 5900X and 5950X. The 5600X and 5800X literally sell everyday

Don't take a single sample point anecdote and base your reasoning off that, that's dumb.

Look at a stock/price tracker for your region like CamelCamelCamel and you'll see that plenty of Ryzen 5000 series have spent two months being globally out of stock and price-scalped, followed by a return to norm this last month, but still in short-enough supply that it's been selling for 20% higher than MSRP.

When trying to ascertain a trend/generalisation, look for sample sizes with half a dozen zeroes on the end.

 

[moob]

Hm, plenty of issues finding stock for the ryzen 5000s, especially at anywhere close to MSRP, and the ryzen 9s are on existent.

They've been in and out of stock on AMD's site for the past week or so. Usually in stock for hours. The 5600X and 5800X are in stock right now: https://www.amd.com/en/direct-buy/us
They've also been readily in stock at Micro Center for a while now for those of us with those nearby. Hell, they've also been stock at Amazon for MSRP.

But like Durvelle said, the 5900X and 5950X are another story.

 

[Psinet]

Ugh the one-eyed Intel nutters are becoming more and more deranged.

 

[ratirt]

Don't take a single sample point anecdote and base your reasoning off that, that's dumb.

Look at a stock/price tracker for your region like CamelCamelCamel and you'll see that plenty of Ryzen 5000 series have spent two months being globally out of stock and price-scalped, followed by a return to norm this last month, but still in short-enough supply that it's been selling for 20% higher than MSRP.

When trying to ascertain a trend/generalisation, look for sample sizes with half a dozen zeroes on the end.

Why would you say it's dumb? Here is a screen grab for availability of the 5800X in Norway for example (most common stores). Basically all stores have that processor in a noticeable stock. It's been like that for a while now so I don't think what he said is dumb. The availability may not be great but these are available.

Also a 5600X for comparison. Also available but the price may not be as great.

 

[Chrispy_]

Why would you say it's dumb? Here is a screen grab for availability of the 5800X in Norway for example (most common stores). Basically all stores have that processor in a noticeable stock. It's been like that for a while now so I don't think what he said is dumb. The availability may not be great but these are available.
View attachment 192057
Also a 5600X for comparison. Also available but the price may not be as great.
View attachment 192058

It's dumb to make sweeping generalisations for a market consisting of hundreds of thousands of units per month based on a sample size of one individual purchase.

As for that Zen3 stock, you're basically confirming what I've been saying - prices are still way above MSRP; Anything will stay in stock if you price it high enough. I can find you a 3080 for $2000 if you want? It's easy....

 

[ratirt]

It's dumb to make sweeping generalisations for a market consisting of hundreds of thousands of units per month based on a sample size of one individual purchase.

As for that Zen3 stock, you're basically confirming what I've been saying - prices are still way above MSRP; Anything will stay in stock if you price it high enough. I can find you a 3080 for $2000 if you want? It's easy....

I did not base this on an individual purchase.
Yes prices are above MSRP but these products are available and you can buy them. That's should be your take away.
It will take some time before the prices normalize that's for sure. That is why I'm not buying 5000 series CPU now. I'm simply waiting for the prices to drop.
Besides Norway has a 25% tax on electronics. If you consider 5180NOK for 5800x that's around $612. Yeah it is a lot but if you exclude the 25% tax you will get around 3900NOK and that's around $461 vs $449 5800X official MSRP. That's not bad in my opinion.

 

[medi01]

prices are still way above MSRP

Uh, are they?

5600x $299 MSRP => 328 Euro
5800x $449 MSRP => 438 Euro

(prices include 19% VAT)

Available at roughly those prices for many weeks.
(Given chip size of these guys, I can't help wondering, why are they so pricey vs what GPUs cost... )

 

[kapone32]

I have not seen this at all. I live in Tennessee and getting the Ryzen 5000 series has been pretty easy. The only CPUs that have been hard to get is the 5900X and 5950X. The 5600X and 5800X literally sell everyday

I guess it depends on where you live. I can buy the 5600x and 5950X in my part of Canada but the 5800X and definitely the 5900X are no shows. Unfortunately I do believe that the 5900X will suffer the same fate as the 3300X.

 

[Chrispy_]

I did not base this on an individual purchase.

It's a good job I wasn't replying/referring to you then, isn't it It was a quote specifcally reply to Durvelle about one single location. It doesn't reflect global trends and trying to generalise from a biased location (the country AMD is based in) is a false assumption that does not correlate with the ROW.

Uh, are they?
Available at roughly those prices for many weeks.

We're getting off topic with straw-man arguments here. If you go back to my much earlier post:

That's true now, but this is historic data reflecting the last quarter and in the last couple of quarters, availability has been a massive problem for both AMD and Intel.

This entire line of discussion is about historic data for the first three months of launch. "That's true now" is literally me acknowledging that stocks are looking better and pricing is finally at MSRP in some places. If you're not following that conversation then you're just jumping into an argument blindly without context and this is a dead end because I already agreed on the point you're trying to argue yesterday.

 

[medi01]

"That's true now" is

conveniently ignoring "for many weeks" part. Let me be more specific, price including 19% of German VAT on 5800x:

Essentially, there was a bit more than 1 month of crazy pricing, between early November and mid Dec. That's it.

 

[Chrispy_]

I guess it depends on where you live. I can buy the 5600x and 5950X in my part of Canada but the 5800X and definitely the 5900X are no shows. Unfortunately I do believe that the 5900X will suffer the same fate as the 3300X.

I feel that the 5900X is less important given good availability of the 3900X still.

Zen3's biggest advantage over Zen2 is the removal of the CCX, making the 6-core and 8-core parts better than the previous gen's "2x3-core" and "2x4-core" parts with separate L3 cache domains.

With the 5900X and 5950X you still have cores forced to move data back and forth between CCDs at an enormous latency penalty with many extra steps and the far slower infinity fabric clock. The two CCDs still suffer the duplication of data in both caches (duplications reducing the effective L3 cache size).

So yes, the IPC of a 5900X is better than that of a 3900X by a decent chunk, but many heavily-threaded loads will not realise the same Zen2-to-Zen3 improvement as the single CCD models like the 5600X/5800X - because they still have to use the infinity fabric to communicate between CCDs.

I bought the 5800X for myself because it's the best example of Zen3 - it's a single top-binned CCD with none of the disadvantages of having to move threads from core-to-core over the infinity fabric. If I needed more cores, the relative price/performance of a readily available 3900X is close enough to a 5900X that I'm not in a huge rush to try and find a 5900X which is extra effort and still above MSRP as of right now, though hopefully that situation is changing based on 5600X and 5800X availability returning to normal these past couple of weeks.

 

[ratirt]

It's a good job I wasn't replying/referring to you then, isn't it It was a quote specifcally reply to Durvelle about one single location. It doesn't reflect global trends and trying to generalise from a biased location (the country AMD is based in) is a false assumption that does not correlate with the ROW.

Well I agree with you. Generalization of global market based on an individual person's purchase is false but I hope I showed that the availability is there. That is the only thing I wanted to share. Of course Norway is not a representative of global market but due to the situation we currently are facing, the availability is better even though the prices aren't as good.

 

[Chrispy_]

conveniently ignoring "for many weeks" part. Let me be more specific, price including 19% of German VAT on 5800x:

View attachment 192087

Essentially, there was a bit more than 1 month of crazy pricing, between early November and mid Dec. That's it.

Straw man again. You're picking one region and the one product that has been stocked best (a 5800X), mainly because of its unattractive price/perf ratio at MSRP and most reviewers arguing that it's pointless over the 5600X for all but a niche minority. This line of discussion is about the entire 5000-series product stack. How's that graph looking for a 5900X, for example?

You're conveniently ignoring all the other people in this thread talking about how 5600X and 5900X have been difficult to find even now, just for the sake of standing your ground. Fine, whatever makes you happy!

 

[ARF]

I feel that the 5900X is less important given good availability of the 3900X still.

Zen3's biggest advantage over Zen2 is the removal of the CCX, making the 6-core and 8-core parts better than the previous gen's "2x3-core" and "2x4-core" parts with separate L3 cache domains.

With the 5900X and 5950X you still have cores forced to move data back and forth between CCDs at an enormous latency penalty with many extra steps and the far slower infinity fabric clock. The two CCDs still suffer the duplication of data in both caches (duplications reducing the effective L3 cache size).

So yes, the IPC of a 5900X is better than that of a 3900X by a decent chunk, but many heavily-threaded loads will not realise the same Zen2-to-Zen3 improvement as the single CCD models like the 5600X/5800X - because they still have to use the infinity fabric to communicate between CCDs.

I bought the 5800X for myself because it's the best example of Zen3 - it's a single top-binned CCD with none of the disadvantages of having to move threads from core-to-core over the infinity fabric. If I needed more cores, the relative price/performance of a readily available 3900X is close enough to a 5900X that I'm not in a huge rush to try and find a 5900X which is extra effort and still above MSRP as of right now, though hopefully that situation is changing based on 5600X and 5800X availability returning to normal these past couple of weeks.

The 5900X is 20% faster. Gaming performance is also fixed and tops the charts, while the old Zen 2 processors are slower.

5900X is the only way to go here.

 

[kapone32]

One of the things that support the argument for AMD's rise are CPU coolers. Today you can get coolers that come installed with AM4 support. There are even some that naturally work with the plastic support brackets. Not too long ago AMD was always part of the accessory pack.

 

[medi01]

Straw man again. You're picking one region and the one product that has been stocked best (a 5800X), mainly because of its unattractive price/perf ratio at MSRP and most reviewers arguing that it's pointless over the 5600X for all but a niche minority. This line of discussion is about the entire 5000-series product stack. How's that graph looking for a 5900X, for example?

You're conveniently ignoring all the other people in this thread talking about how 5600X and 5900X have been difficult to find even now, just for the sake of standing your ground. Fine, whatever makes you happy!

You need to come up with a theory of why availability in Germany is drastically different from the noname "all the other people" who are so with you on this.

5600x you said, here you go (for some reason, I believed 5800x is the thing, based on on gaming forums at least, but oh well):

Oh, look, same slightly more than one month of crazy pricing, "cherry picking" eh? Or perhaps it's you failing to admit the obvious?

 

[SL2]

I feel that the 5900X is less important given good availability of the 3900X still.

Oh, we go by feelings now do we, speaking of convenient..

Zen3's biggest advantage over Zen2 is the removal of the CCX, making the 6-core and 8-core parts better than the previous gen's "2x3-core" and "2x4-core" parts with separate L3 cache domains.

No. We both know this is false, and we both know that you have no source to back up this hunch. Zen 3 is the biggest architectural change since the introduction of the first generation, this is a well know fact.
I see this claim coming back every now and then, but I never see any proof of it.

AMD Zen 3 Ryzen Deep Dive Review: 5950X, 5900X, 5800X and 5600X Tested

www.anandtech.com

You're conveniently ignoring all the other people in this thread talking about how 5600X and 5900X have been difficult to find even now, just for the sake of standing your ground. Fine, whatever makes you happy!

Don't be sad. There are plenty of 5600X available on several countries, maybe not just where you live. You don't seem to keen on proving your point either, unlike medi01.
Just because it's out of stock at some places, I'd guess north america for instance, it doesn't have to be that everywhere.

There are loads of stores that have it in stock, not only DE, but also AT, PL, NO, SE, DK... unlike two months ago when there were nothing. Here are 76 stores, with many having it in stock -

€330 is about about 330USD + tax, Yup, 10 % over MSRP in USD.

AMD Ryzen 5 5600X, 6C/12T, 3.70-4.60GHz, boxed ab € 124,64 (2024) | Preisvergleich Geizhals EU

✔ Preisvergleich für AMD Ryzen 5 5600X, 6C/12T, 3.70-4.60GHz, boxed ✔ Bewertungen ✔ Produktinfo ⇒ Kerne: 6 (6C) • Threads: 12 • Turbotakt: 4.60GHz • Basistakt: 3.70GHz… ✔ AMD ✔ Testberichte ✔ Günstig kaufen

geizhals.eu

Now before you say it's just words, yeah, we won't know for sure until we buy one right now. But the thing is, this is what it looks like when it's out of stock: 5950X - 5 stores, and zero in stock.

When trying to ascertain a trend/generalisation, look for sample sizes with half a dozen zeroes on the end.

As if you'd do that. Show us how it's done!

 

[kapone32]

No. We both know this is false, and we both know that you have no source to back up this hunch. Zen 3 is the biggest architectural change since the introduction of the first generation, this is a well know fact.
I see this claim coming back every now and then, but I never see any proof of it.

Well I have had the 2600, 3600 and 5600 but I also have had the 3100 and 3300X. The single CCX chips are faster than the others in the generation. The 3300x is noticeably about 10 to 15 % faster than the 3100. The 5600X is the 6 core version of the 3300x and as such is one of the fastest CPUs AMD had ever made. The other point would be that these are the CPUs that AMD focused on in production. You could expect that 70+% of the chips AMD produce on this node are 8 core variants. Using that theory you can expect that the first round of failed 8 cores was the 3300x with the 5600X being a chip that could come from a host of chips including the 5800 and 5900 and the failed console chips as well. I would be shocked if we don't see a non X release when Alder Lake starts to get some real noise.

 

[moob]

Don't be sad. There are plenty of 5600X available on several countries, maybe not just where you live. You don't seem to keen on proving your point either, unlike medi01.
Just because it's out of stock at some places, I'd guess north america for instance, it doesn't have to be that everywhere.

Stock issues have greatly improved in the US for the 5600X. I posted that link above to AMD's site and it was available from when I posted it to about midnight last night at least. The 5800X is still in stock.

Even Amazon currently has the 5600X (yes, at $299): https://www.amazon.com/AMD-Ryzen-5600X-12-Thread-Processor/dp/B08166SLDF/

A month ago stock was terrible, but that's not the case anymore.

 

[Chrispy_]

Stock issues have greatly improved in the US for the 5600X. I posted that link above to AMD's site and it was available from when I posted it to about midnight last night at least. The 5800X is still in stock.

Even Amazon currently has the 5600X (yes, at $299): https://www.amazon.com/AMD-Ryzen-5600X-12-Thread-Processor/dp/B08166SLDF/

A month ago stock was terrible, but that's not the case anymore.

And to perfectly illustrate my point, it's already back up to $355 less than a mere 14 hours later with scalpers who know they can make a clean $50 on every unit!

No. We both know this is false, and we both know that you have no source to back up this hunch. Zen 3 is the biggest architectural change since the introduction of the first generation, this is a well know fact.
I see this claim coming back every now and then, but I never see any proof of it.

You're misinterpreting what I wrote. I did NOT say that the only difference was the removal of the CCX, I said the biggest difference. It's not even hard to see either - TechPowerUp's own reviews show a 5800X > 3800XT = 19.0% IPC increase, whilst the 5900X > 3900XT = 14.6% increase. Despite the long laundry-list of architectural changes, 25% of all Zen3's IPC gains come from unifying the CCD. If you compare IPC uplift of single CCD (5800X) vs dual CCD (5900X) then you get 19.0/14.6 = 30% improvement. That's a 30% improvement the 5800X gets that the 5900X doesn't.

Let's just be super clear here as you seem readily-willing to misconstrue what I say for the sake of making an argument: The 5900X is still a fantastic chip with huge IPC gains over the 3900X/XT. It's just not as much of a leap forwards over the previous generation as the 5800X is over the 3800X/XT. Given the smaller performance gap between the 5900X and the 3900X/XT, and then considering the discounts/availability of the the 3900X against the scalping/unavailabilty of the 5900X, it's not as much of a concern to most people interested in a 12-core CPU. Even if you find a 5900X at MSRP, the discounts on a 3900X make it better performance/$ in most tests.

Don't be sad. There are plenty of 5600X available on several countries, maybe not just where you live. You don't seem to keen on proving your point either, unlike medi01.
Just because it's out of stock at some places, I'd guess north america for instance, it doesn't have to be that everywhere.

Whilst that's true, I read and watch English-speaking channels and sites. That means US, Canada, UK, Australia, New Zealand, India, South Africa. The top-5 tech streamers covering US, Canada, UK, and Australia have all realeased multiple videos in the last week mentioning stock shortages (presumably in those regions) and the same goes for websites and forums where you will have no problem finding up-to-date threads whining about availability and equally the existence of threads proclaiming that retailer X has Zen3 in stock right now. None of those threads would exist in abundance if there wasn't a widespread problem.

For what it's worth, I'm in the UK and have had no problem acquiring a 5800X and eight 5900X CPUs at close to MSRP in the last four weeks, though availability of the 5900X is terrible, I had to pull strings with my B2B account manager at the UK's largest tech etailer. That same site just had "call for pricing" on the 5900X for business accounts and "coming soon" for consumer logins.

Show us how it's done!

I did, days ago, in the post that seems to have triggered you.
CamelCamelCamel - you can check various regions and with the exception of Germany they all look either bad or terrible today for stocks/scalping:
You can also see the price history and despite Germany having stocks of some Zen3 models for two months now, Everywhere else is still above MSRP, sometimes by ridiculous amounts because any stock that hits the market gets instantly scalped.

 

[thesmokingman]

This thread has gone to shit, now full of a bunch of other shit not related to thread topic.

 

[Chrispy_]

This thread has gone to shit, now full of a bunch of other shit not related to thread topic.

Are you surprised? Any thread about Ampere, RDNA2, or Zen3 ends up being about the fact that they're really hard to buy.

We're finally starting to get somewhere with CPUs now. There's no end in sight to the crypto-mining bubble though so GPUs are still very much not a thing your average person can just go out and buy.

Oh, I made myself sad by saying "go out". Damn 'rona lockdown.....

 

[SL2]

You're misinterpreting what I wrote. I did NOT say that the only difference was the removal of the CCX, I said the biggest difference.

I gave you the pic from AMD, if you don't want to believe it there isn't much I can do about it.

Whilst that's true, I read and watch English-speaking channels and sites. That means US, Canada, UK, Australia, New Zealand, India, South Africa.

My point earlier was that you can't prove that availability is equally low in all countries based on what you know about some countries, that's what triggered me in the first place. To make things worse, when people tries to explain that the situation isn't identical everywhere, you call replies dumb to the left and right for no reason.
What I see here in parts of EU doesn't match what I'm seeing elsewhere.

Are you surprised? Any thread about Ampere, RDNA2, or Zen3 ends up being about the fact that they're really hard to buy.

Yeah, I wonder who started it in this very thread.. talk about going full circle: You started the conversation, and then you're complaining that the conversation is started.

Processor sales are no longer decided on who makes the best processor for any given market, they are decided by whichever brand can stay in stock the longest.