Bitcoin price suddenly surges to 3-year high

[Outback Bronze]

those that dont will be left behind..

Just for you : )

 

[sepheronx]

India to propose cryptocurrency ban, penalising miners, traders - source

India will propose a law banning cryptocurrencies, fining anyone trading in the country or even holding such digital assets, a senior government official told Reuters in a potential blow to millions of investors piling into the red-hot asset class.

www.reuters.com

I am gonna be a thorn in the rear for this but:

Having experienced India's law system first hand, I can safely give my opinion on this matter.

India has been pushing an idea of a Digital Rupee and this is simply to stifle out competition. But with what happened not so long ago (couple years ago), India was banning use of older notes due to the counterfeit scheme going on where money was being delivered from Pakistan into India, to fund illegal activities and much of this money was being used for buying up things like Gold and other precious assets. Anyway, while this did stifle the use of it, it didn't stamp it out.

Now lets add in the fact that India will use their digital currency, there will be a tough measure in trying to actually stop miners and or the use of bitcoin. Actually, on contrary, it may increase the activity of it, much like what is seen in China. Bitcoin itself is still used in hiding transactions and how many nations are able to circumvent sanctions and other trade issues by using crypto. Simply banning it is one thing, but actually enforcing any law on it is another. See Canada's torrenting laws and the lack of actually doing anything to counter it. And Canada has a much more stable political and justice system than India.

Also add in that a lot of rich and powerful people in India has dealings in crypto, it may just not pass through. Lastly, the constitutional court seems to always want to stifle whatever Modi does or pushes, so I imagine there will be lawsuits.

It sounds good when it is all written down. But just wait till they have to enact such laws. They are still fighting with the corrupt middle men in Punjab regarding the so called Farmer protests (Khalistani's way of trying to cause harm).

What I forsee is that Bitcoins will be increased in use in India and there will be a way to trade between it and digital Rupee and then to cash if the user so wishes to. And or it will force Bitcoin back into the hands of the illegal market anyway and flourish there.

Remember - Drugs like Marijuana is illegal in India. Yet it grows on the side of the road everywhere in Punjab for instance.

 

[Mescalamba]

if bitcoin truly becomes a universally accepted store of value countries are gonna gave to mine it.. its money.. those that dont will be left behind..

trog

Rather sooner than later there wont be any BTC left to mine. Even today basically everyone is mining something else than BTC.

As for BTC going to zero. Unlikely, there would be a lot of ppl keeping faith in it even at super low prices, so zero simply wont happen. When/if BTC does another drop to 15-20% price, there will be a lot of ppl buying like mad.

BTC has few future scenarios. One is that it will keep its value as "digital gold" with infinite price ceiling. Other that it will be replaced by some other currency that will be more viable.

I kinda expect that BTC will be used as sorta digital gold standard and whatever currency will be used as actually currency will simply derive its price from BTC. Not much different to physical gold standard. Or current situation with crypto.

While it would be nice to have one crypto for everything in the world I dont think it will happen. Most likely scenario is at first huge amount of different cryptos (bit like current situation, just those future ones will be companies/government owned/made). Which will be later reduced in numbers to much less. Probably each continent/economical union having own.

I wonder if current free crypto will survive. But given not even free internet does. Probably not.

 

[Outback Bronze]

For anybody interested in how bad it is for the environment.

Governments are quick to demonise Bitcoin as an environmental menace (msn.com)

 

[lexluthermiester]

You are missing big picture.

You desperately need a mirror when you say that. Really, you do!

Fact that poor PC players cant upgrade their PCs (selfish much?) is meaningless and non-important. Beside that its temporary situation, much like last time. Ofc impatient kids like you cant wait couple months and their greedy paws must have new HW or world will end. So they could waste their time gaming and fuel stupid greedy companies like Activision for example (to each its own, eh..).

Like definition of first world problems..

Oh go polish your Apple man. It's not just the poor or middle class that can't afford to upgrade, it's even affecting the buying decisions of high end buyers who also do not want to pay outrageous prices IF they can find a card for sale... The world was fine before cryptocoin it'll be fine if it's gone...

 

[trog100]

You desperately need a mirror when you say that. Really, you do!

Oh go polish your Apple man. It's not just the poor or middle class that can't afford to upgrade, it's even affecting the buying decisions of high end buyers who also do not want to pay outrageous prices IF they can find a card for sale... The world was fine before cryptocoin it'll be fine if it's gone...

the "outrageous" prices are caused by a supply shortage.. the demand at RRP prices by far exceeds the supply.. cards are readily available at ebay prices.. ebay prices are based on what people are prepared to pay..

in such a situation supply needs to increase to bring prices down.. the makers may not be able to do this or they may choose not to do this i dont know..

but simply blaming miners is a very short sighted view and its wrong..

trog

 

[lexluthermiester]

the "outrageous" prices are caused by a supply shortage..

And why is THAT happening? Hmmm?

but simply blaming miners is a very short sighted view and its wrong..

Except that pretty much everyone knows that the miners are a big contributor to the problem..

 

[mouacyk]

Yep, there is a price to speculation. The more meaningless it is, the higher the cost to resources. And ofc, people who speculate on such meaningless things don't give a shite. They just like to profit and complain about the resource issue at the same time.

 

[trog100]

yes miners are part of the problem but they are not the cause of the problem.. too little (or no) supply is the cause of the problem..

i mine with my gpus i would love to buy more of them so that i could mine some more.. but current ebay prices are too high even for me.. a 3080 gpu UK ebay price is around £1750 quid..

having said that even at £1750 a card would pay for itself after about six months if used for mining..

trog

 

[kapone32]

I hope this doesn't instill any real animosity as any of you (most of you) can do it. I have a sweet Gaming PC and absolutely love Gaming. I have been Gaming since I was 7 and I am now 50 so that covers the entire Gambit from the arcade (Asteroids, Wizard or Wor, Gauntlet, Joust) all I am trying to establish is that I have a computer for Gaming and that is the focus of my use. I also had a card sitting around since I made an upgrade. Buying GPUs is absolutely insane in terms of pricing. I started mining with the one card and tuned the GPU to pull 140 Watts (Vega 64) with a hashrate of 37 MH/s. That is about $8 a day in mining. Ok so I am thinking $8 over 30 days would be a nice sum of $240. That is not bad at all vs the electricity cost but there are newer cards that are way more efficient. Canada Computers is having a sale on a MSI Gaming PC. It is $1179 (CAD) and comes with a 10400F, 512GB SSD, 16GB DDR4 and 5600XT. Why I am posting this in this thread is because I bought 2 of them. I sold my Water cooled Vega 64 for $800 and built a rig from spare parts that netted me another $2000 (X399).

Canada Computers | Best PC, Laptop, Gaming Gear, Printer, TV, Cables - Canada Computers & Electronics

The best deals on laptops, PC, game systems, components, small appliances, cables, and office supplies. Save more by shopping online or in-store!

www.canadacomputers.com

So I have a MSI X570 Pro and I put the 2 cards on that board with a 3400G. I tuned the cards to pull a ridiculous 90 watts each (they have 2 8 Pins each?) and have a hash rate of about 75mh/s by then end of the year I will be happier than I am today (if the trend continues). As for the rest of the PCs. One is getting a 7950 and the other is getting a Vega 64 and going on sale for $500 and maybe $1000 respectively so it's smiles all around.

4 of my friends and family (so far) have bought the deal. I can understand the melancholy that is out there but you just have to be smart, there are still ways to get in without getting hosed. The fact that you could (currently) make $6000 a year mining with 2 6800XTs (or maybe $3000 if you ran it while working) makes spending $1300 in the store or $1400-1500 on the street a sort of moot point if you can have a return on your investment.

Supply seems to be getting better but without commercial flights to support supply we are relegated to waiting for containers to cross the Pacific. Lets hope that their are ships on the Ocean right now with several containers full of GPUs though.

Yep, there is a price to speculation. The more meaningless it is, the higher the cost to resources. And ofc, people who speculate on such meaningless things don't give a shite. They just like to profit and complain about the resource issue at the same time.

Actually my goal is to have 5 3KW windmills hooked up to a 10 card mining rig.

 

[R0H1T]

Also add in that a lot of rich and powerful people in India has dealings in crypto, it may just not pass through. Lastly, the constitutional court seems to always want to stifle whatever Modi does or pushes, so I imagine there will be lawsuits.

Well here's the thing ~ everything's legal for the rich & powerful, whether it be in India or really anywhere else! Which is to say that the govt can definitely make & enforce such laws, but selective punishment for plebs could well be the norm if the law's passed of course ~ which I doubt would be the case in the immediate future.

 

[trog100]

I hope this doesn't instill any real animosity as any of you (most of you) can do it. I have a sweet Gaming PC and absolutely love Gaming. I have been Gaming since I was 7 and I am now 50 so that covers the entire Gambit from the arcade (Asteroids, Wizard or Wor, Gauntlet, Joust) all I am trying to establish is that I have a computer for Gaming and that is the focus of my use. I also had a card sitting around since I made an upgrade. Buying GPUs is absolutely insane in terms of pricing. I started mining with the one card and tuned the GPU to pull 140 Watts (Vega 64) with a hashrate of 37 MH/s. That is about $8 a day in mining. Ok so I am thinking $8 over 30 days would be a nice sum of $240. That is not bad at all vs the electricity cost but there are newer cards that are way more efficient. Canada Computers is having a sale on a MSI Gaming PC. It is $1179 (CAD) and comes with a 10400F, 512GB SSD, 16GB DDR4 and 5600XT. Why I am posting this in this thread is because I bought 2 of them. I sold my Water cooled Vega 64 for $800 and built a rig from spare parts that netted me another $2000 (X399).

Canada Computers | Best PC, Laptop, Gaming Gear, Printer, TV, Cables - Canada Computers & Electronics

The best deals on laptops, PC, game systems, components, small appliances, cables, and office supplies. Save more by shopping online or in-store!

www.canadacomputers.com

So I have a MSI X570 Pro and I put the 2 cards on that board with a 3400G. I tuned the cards to pull a ridiculous 90 watts each (they have 2 8 Pins each?) and have a hash rate of about 75mh/s by then end of the year I will be happier than I am today (if the trend continues). As for the rest of the PCs. One is getting a 7950 and the other is getting a Vega 64 and going on sale for $500 and maybe $1000 respectively so it's smiles all around.

4 of my friends and family (so far) have bought the deal. I can understand the melancholy that is out there but you just have to be smart, there are still ways to get in without getting hosed. The fact that you could (currently) make $6000 a year mining with 2 6800XTs (or maybe $3000 if you ran it while working) makes spending $1300 in the store or $1400-1500 on the street a sort of moot point if you can have a return on your investment.

Supply seems to be getting better but without commercial flights to support supply we are relegated to waiting for containers to cross the Pacific. Lets hope that their are ships on the Ocean right now with several containers full of GPUs though.

you are looking at things in a realistic way..

i have a couple of desktop 3080 machines and a mining rig built back in 2017.. the mining rig has 8 x 1070 cards in it... they are producing around 400 m/hs all together.. or about $14000 US dollars per year..

this may go up or it may go down i dont know.. but at over a 1000 dollars per month it would be hard not to do it..

trog

 

[critofur]

One of the mornings I went to wait in line at my local computer store hoping to buy a 3070 but by the time it was my turn to pick a card, my only option was the $1800 EVGA FTW3 3090 Ultra - well, I couldn't go away empty handed so I bought that (gasp - $300 was already an expensive GPU IMO). The thing is, it wasn't that long ago that I had bought a 3070 for $475 and I wasn't sure it was worth it even at that price.

I keep telling myself: It'd be stupid to keep this 3090 when I can sell it for $2,800 or more - and, of all the cards in the 3000 series, the 3090 is the least efficient in terms of both cost per MH/s and electricity per MH/s - with summer coming, I'm hesitating to open this beast up and start mining with it. Talk about "first world problems" - I just can't decide and it's stressing me out

Either way is a "win" though I guess - I do realize I'm lucky that I could get the card at the "retail" price. My gaming PC has a 3080 in it which is more than enough already, and I bought a 3060 Ti for my son even though he said "I don't need a new GPU" because mining makes it "free" or better.

 

[kapone32]

you are looking at things in a realistic way..

i have a couple of desktop 3080 machines and a mining rig built back in 2017.. the mining rig has 8 x 1070 cards in it... they are producing around 400 m/hs all together.. or about $14000 US dollars per year..

this may go up or it may go down i dont know.. but at over a 1000 dollars per month it would be hard not to do it..

trog

F me that is insane. I am sure your face is not wide enough to fit how wide your smile must be. I would not even have contemplated Mining if my 6800XT did not cost more than I paid for the PCs I mentioned. It does something to you when you see your wallet growing and growing though.

 

[trog100]

F me that is insane. I am sure your face is not wide enough to fit how wide your smile must be. I would not even have contemplated Mining if my 6800XT did not cost more than I paid for the PCs I mentioned. It does something to you when you see your wallet growing and growing though.

got into crypto because i fancied building a mining machine back 2017.. it cost me about 4K to build.. back then i could have bought one whole bitcoin for 4k.. that one whole bitcoin would now be worth around 55K..

my crypto wallet grows quicker as crypto goes up in price more than it does from my mining.. but the mining is fun..

i watched bitcoin go up from 4K to 20K and then back down to 4K and then back up to 60K i have never sold anything... it gives me something to check on every day just like the weather.. he he

trog

 

[Mescalamba]

For anybody interested in how bad it is for the environment.

Governments are quick to demonise Bitcoin as an environmental menace (msn.com)

BTC is temporary thing. Once majority is mined it will be pretty much over, which is going to be around 2030.

Current/new crypto most likely wont go mining way. But who knows really..

Chip production in general has problems, current mining craze only made it worse. Beside that, apart mining, PC segment isnt particularly interesting for companies. For nVidia biggest interest is I think super computers, machine learning and similar stuff, where they can supply thousands of cards at once (and very very expensive ones).

As for environmental impact. Hah. World has much more pressing problems than crypto mining. Beside the fact that a lot of it isnt using classical sources of energy, but alternative due profits.

Is it stupid? Sure, but so is basically majority of things that mankind does. Including very existence of mankind.

 

[ZenZimZaliben]

BTC is temporary thing. Once majority is mined it will be pretty much over, which is going to be around 2030.

BTC will be forever. Once majority is mined it will be the start of a new world currency around 2030...See I can make up stuff also.

 

[Zach_01]

People forgetting that mining is not what gives cryptos their value. Its the blockchain tech and what you can do with it along with the transaction volume. Otherwise most crypto assets (that are unminable) would have no value right now. But that is not what is happening...

I wonder... has anyone of the ney sayers think that once all BTCs mined and their number is finite that would actually give them way more value? Unlike fiat currency that govs keep printing?

 

[Mescalamba]

BTC will be forever. Once majority is mined it will be the start of a new world currency around 2030...See I can make up stuff also.

Its not made up. Around 2030 98% of BTC will be mined. Difficulty at that point will be crazy high to the point that profitability will be most likely only if your electricity is completely free and in same time you own gigantic farm. Unless there will be some serious computing power jump in ASICs or even PC technology (I wouldnt rule that out given M1 from Apple).

So around 2030 BTC can be considered as pretty much "mined". ETH by then should move to non-mining. There is question what will other mineable stuff do. Ppl love to mine, so I guess there will be still a lot of stuff to mine. Another question is what will AMD/nVidia do. Right now AMD does nothing and nVidia did some primitive attempt at moving miners to dedicated GPUs for that. Next generation might be a lot more difficult to crack, which in theory can increase number of GPUs available for regular gamer market.

BTC mining is temporary thing. BTC lifetime is unknown at this point.

People forgetting that mining is not what gives cryptos their value. Its the blockchain tech and what you can do with it along with the transaction volume. Otherwise most crypto assets (that are unminable) would have no value right now. But that is not what is happening...

I wonder... has anyone of the ney sayers think that once all BTCs mined and their number is finite that would actually give them way more value? Unlike fiat currency that govs keep printing?

Even meme coin DOGE is in long term better option than FIAT, cause even while DOGE has some built-in inflation after some time that inflation will be still lower than USD (or basically any main FIAT).

Crypto is pretty much opposite of FIAT. But so far that usable currency part isnt really working. Fortunately for crypto current world economical situation is looking rather bad for FIAT and good for everything else (including physical gold and such..). Will see what future brings. Probably something nasty.

 

[ZenZimZaliben]

I just don't agree with your logic. There will still be transaction fee's. There are still 100M Satoshi in 1 BTC. Imagine a day when 1 Sat = 1 USD. Everything I have read says 2140 +-10 years. The only way it any crypto becomes a currency is once it plateaus and holds. But we have a long ways to go for that.

 

[Zach_01]

It’s tech. Blockchain. And like any all-new tech it will take many years to evolve and develop. It will eventually be adopted by major players like Visa, MasterCard and others. You can use it today with Revolut.
And I don’t mean just BTC but digital assets in general. Blockchain tech can be used in so many (legit) ways.

 

[Vya Domus]

People forgetting that mining is not what gives cryptos their value. Its the blockchain tech and what you can do with it along with the transaction volume. Otherwise most crypto assets (that are unminable) would have no value right now.

It's neither mining or the technology.

It's just the demand of a fixed supply asset that gives it value. It could have been anything else that matched that description. Practically nobody cares what you could do with bitcoin, they're in just to make a profit, that's it.

 

[basco]

quote from this site:
However, it also suggests the amount of electricity consumed every year by always-on but inactive home devices in the US alone could power the entire Bitcoin network for a year.

Bitcoin consumes 'more electricity than Argentina'

The rising value of Bitcoin leads to ever-higher energy consumption, researchers say.

www.bbc.com

 

[trog100]

i have just been looking at UK ebay gpu prices.. currently a 3060 ti is fetching over £1000.. i also came across some pre-built mining machines.. one that caught my eye was a 8 x 3060 ti machine.. its priced at £11,700..

at current prices it would generate over a £1000 per month and take just under a year to pay for itself... a 480 m/hs machine..

all ebay gpu prices do seem linked to what they would make as mining cards..

forking out over £11000 grand in one go is a bit much for me so i probably wont buy it but i am pretty sure that in the future i am gonna look back and wish i had.. he he

trog

ps.. as for the cost of leccy.. i recon for a couple of grand i could put enough solar panels on the top of my shed to run the the mining machine for at least half of the time.. it would need a few batteries and an inverter in the shed but it could be done..

 

[sepheronx]

I'm slowly building the rig. Doing things like buying GPUs as backorders so I pay what would be closest to MSRP. Only issue is the wait game.

Getting a RX 6800 XT for gaming and helping a bit with mining in a seperate rig, but the mining rig, I'm hoping to find at least a 3080 or two 3060 ti's to work with the 3 3070's.

So far, no luck. 3080 is more or less mythical here.