Thermalright Frost Commander 140 is a Large Dual Fin-Stack Cooler Out to Snack on AIOs

Caring1 · Mar 26, 2021

Operandi said:
Didn't mean to imply otherwise, just stating the Noctua puts a lot of their own development into their fans and that the fan is often times an afterthought.

Hell no, if I have to spend at least $30 per fan I am making sure I get decent ones up to the job.

curiosity · Mar 27, 2021

freeagent said:
Some of you guys probably haven't been around long enough to know but.. TR was making high end heatsinks before Noctua was in the HSF game. They all copy each other. TR was a pioneer, and did not patent anything.. the first time I saw a Noctua review, it looked like they used many of TR's manufacturing and design techniques. I know a lot of people put Noctua on a pedestal, but it really is uncalled for.

Just know that they all copy each other. It could be a dimension, a technique, a plating, whatever..

Amen.

wolar · Mar 27, 2021

freeagent said:
Some of you guys probably haven't been around long enough to know but.. TR was making high end heatsinks before Noctua was in the HSF game. They all copy each other. TR was a pioneer, and did not patent anything.. the first time I saw a Noctua review, it looked like they used many of TR's manufacturing and design techniques. I know a lot of people put Noctua on a pedestal, but it really is uncalled for.

Just know that they all copy each other. It could be a dimension, a technique, a plating, whatever..

And honestly, its a good thing (for consumers at least)! Copying good things moves the industry forwards as companies will try to exceed the general threshold and then they copy that and do it again.

ixi · Mar 28, 2021

Good looking, want to know the price.

the54thvoid · Mar 28, 2021

I'm still using a Thermalright Le Grande Macho. One huge heap of metal. But it keeps the 8 cores cool AND quiet.

moproblems99 · Mar 29, 2021

the54thvoid said:
I'm still using a Thermalright Le Grande Macho. One huge heap of metal. But it keeps the 8 cores cool AND quiet.

Do you have the option of cool OR quiet? Or are you stuck with both?

Crackong · Mar 29, 2021

theGryphon said:
You guys are too worried about the fans when what matters most is the heatsink.

I have to disagree.
I 've tried putting the fans that comes with the NH-U12A onto the NH-U12S and all the sudden the U12S performs almost identical to the U12A.

Effectiveness of heatsinks based on current 【copper base + heatpipe +aluminium fins】designs are already very high, even on cheapo $10 models.
The bottleneck is on the fan.
It is very difficult to balance efficiency and acoustics while trying to move a lot of air.

theGryphon · Mar 29, 2021

Crackong said:
I have to disagree.
I 've tried putting the fans that comes with the NH-U12A onto the NH-U12S and all the sudden the U12S performs almost identical to the U12A.

Effectiveness of heatsinks based on current 【copper base + heatpipe +aluminium fins】designs are already very high, even on cheapo $10 models.
The bottleneck is on the fan.
It is very difficult to balance efficiency and acoustics while trying to move a lot of air.

Saying effectiveness of $10 heatsinks equal to high end ones is laughable at best.

Of course fans do make a difference. But you can't put a lipstick on a pig and call it a day. What you can do is put any lipstick (=fan) on any pig (=heatsink) easily. I hope you get my meaning.

the54thvoid · Mar 29, 2021

moproblems99 said:
Do you have the option of cool OR quiet? Or are you stuck with both?

Always both - such a drag.

Crackong · Mar 29, 2021

theGryphon said:
Saying effectiveness of $10 heatsinks equal to high end ones is laughable at best.

Of course fans do make a difference. But you can't put a lipstick on a pig and call it a day. What you can do is put any lipstick (=fan) on any pig (=heatsink) easily. I hope you get my meaning.

I am not saying a $10 2-heatpipe heatsink would equal to a D15.
But instead,
I mean the bottleneck here is the last part of the equation = Heat being carried away by air.

(well , thermal density of the CPU is another thing but we cannot improve that by a cooler so just ignore it.)

Since there is size constraint and limitations on how narrow between the fins could be, you cannot increase the surface area of a heatsink indefinitely.
Once the limitations are reached, only thing they can do is increase the quantity of the air moving through the heatsink.

As long as the heatsink is made by a reputable company, the fans would be the deciding factor here for similarly sized heatsinks.

mechtech · Mar 30, 2021

motherboards everywhere are cringing in pain

theGryphon · Mar 30, 2021

Crackong said:
As long as the heatsink is made by a reputable company, the fans would be the deciding factor here for similarly sized heatsinks.

This is obvious, so we agree.
Where we differ is the perspective.

You and most people here focus on the "out-of-box" experience, which is valuable for people who will never even consider changing the stock fans.

I focus on the "potential" experience. The fact is, the "potential" experience from a CPU cooler lies in the heatsink.

With oob experience thinking, you must also consider the stock TIM, which also plays a huge role in performance.

Fans and TIM are user-serviceable, but the heatsink is not. Another fact is, if you are on TPU, I believe (and hope) that you will seek out the feasibly best fans and Tim to maximize your experience. In that thinking, the heatsink is your bottleneck.

moproblems99 · Mar 30, 2021

theGryphon said:
In that thinking, the heatsink is your bottleneck.

I really enjoyed reading your perspective. Entirely different perspective I never would have seen.

Prima.Vera · Mar 30, 2021

Will this be compatible with the new chipsets intel will release in a couple of months for the 12xxx CPUs??

freeagent · Mar 30, 2021

I just bought one.

Crackong · Mar 30, 2021

theGryphon said:
In that thinking, the heatsink is your bottleneck.

I am just saying the "bottleneck" will always be the "Slowest part in the equation"

And in this situation the slowest part of the equation will always be "Conducting heat to air and let air carry away the heat"

And to speed this up there are only two options : More surface area / Move more air

And there are hard limitations on how big you can make the heatsink, and how small the gap could be between the heatsink fins.

(Unless you are NASA and be able to make heatsinks with the most expensive tech)

That leaves the only feasible way to improve is : Move More Air

claes · Mar 30, 2021

You two are so wild lol :love:

theGryphon · Mar 30, 2021

Crackong said:
I am just saying the "bottleneck" will always be the "Slowest part in the equation"

Yes, and in the pursuit of maximizing performance where you can change everything but the heatsink, the heatsink becomes the bottleneck.

What you're saying about fans being the bottleneck applies to a stationary system, with a given fan and a heatsink.

Again, different perspectives, both true in their definition but mine considers the ability to change user-serviceable components of the system.

freeagent · Mar 30, 2021

Why are you arguing? If there was "bottleneck" it would be the IHS/CP junction. That wont change until you remove the IHS.

You can move all the air you want, it can only do so much.

Crackong · Mar 31, 2021

freeagent said:
Why are you arguing? If there was "bottleneck" it would be the IHS/CP junction. That wont change until you remove the IHS.

You can move all the air you want, it can only do so much.

We put the internals of the CPU away of the equation because we are focusing on the cooler.
If you wanna really dig into the bottom of it,
It would be the thermal conductivity / thermal resistant of the base silicon material , and heat density vs surface area of the modern CPU die.

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Thermalright Frost Commander 140 is a Large Dual Fin-Stack Cooler Out to Snack on AIOs

Caring1

curiosity

wolar

ixi

the54thvoid

Super Intoxicated Moderator

moproblems99

Crackong

theGryphon

the54thvoid

Super Intoxicated Moderator

Crackong

mechtech

theGryphon

moproblems99

Prima.Vera

freeagent

Moderator

Crackong

claes

theGryphon

freeagent

Moderator

Crackong

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