NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Ti and RTX 3080 Ti Possible Release Dates Surface

[AusWolf]

Yes, but the large profit margins are with selling those niche halo cards.

Profit margins on a finished GPU are one thing. Profit margins on a wafer of GPU dies, manufacturing capability and market demand are another. You can make a lot more GPUs per wafer if their die area is smaller. Plus, there's less waste, because if one chip out of say, 500 is defective, it's not as bad as if one out of 100 is.

They earn exponentially more per chip an thus need to sell less in total.

But they make exponentially more chips per wafer when the chips are smaller.

At the very bottom of the market try selling a GPU with barely better than integrated graphics and earn much in the way of profit margins.

I'm not saying they should sell iGPU level products. That's what iGPUs are for. I'm talking about mid-range, which seems to be lacking in this generation, with the exception of the 3060 maybe (it is still a 170 W TDP product, which is far from mid-range imo).

What the general public wants is largely irrelevant to these companies over profits.

Why would it be irrelevant? They want to sell products, don't they?

Edit: What I think about the situation is, nvidia and AMD probably see that selling top-tier graphics cards to miners is the most profitable thing to do in the short run - as there is a lot more demand for these top-tier products now compared to normal times when GPUs are used for gaming. But there is still a demand for midrange graphics cards, which technically is a market that they've left untouched recently.

 

[turbogear]

"The RTX 3070 Ti is being designed to better compete against the Radeon RX 6800 under the $600-mark, while the RTX 3080 Ti is designed to check the Radeon RX 6900 XT."

imagine lowerin hte price to compete better, thats just crazy talk, lets just assume releasing a sku for every pricepoint, that is the solution!

At current market conditions, $600 is a wishesful thinking.
The prices are going up like crazy.

Here is article from Guru3D showing the price development in last few months for both brands:

GeForce RTX 3000 and Radeon RX 6000 now threefold more expensive over MSRP

It's the year of price inflation, everybody knows it, everybody hates it. Overall and specifically graphics card prices do not seem to settle, and might not do so for a while. ...

www.guru3d.com

 

[InVasMani]

Profit margins on a finished GPU are one thing. Profit margins on a wafer of GPU dies, manufacturing capability and market demand are another. You can make a lot more GPUs per wafer if their die area is smaller. Plus, there's less waste, because if one chip out of say, 500 is defective, it's not as bad as if one out of 100 is.


But they make exponentially more chips per wafer when the chips are smaller.


I'm not saying they should sell iGPU level products. That's what iGPUs are for. I'm talking about mid-range, which seems to be lacking in this generation, with the exception of the 3060 maybe (it is still a 170 W TDP product, which is far from mid-range imo).


Why would it be irrelevant? They want to sell products, don't they?

Edit: What I think about the situation is, nvidia and AMD probably see that selling top-tier graphics cards to miners is the most profitable thing to do in the short run - as there is a lot more demand for these top-tier products now compared to normal times when GPUs are used for gaming. But there is still a demand for midrange graphics cards, which technically is a market that they've left untouched recently.

I get the wafers and yields situation, but halo products command higher price premiums and you get too close to iGPU performance and the demand is low to non existent or replaced quickly by a iGPU which is also why the demand is low. On the very bottom end of the spectrum people will gravitate toward the latest iGPU in certain instances. Who needs or wants a discrete GPU that a APU can nearly rival!? They still have a ways to catch up, but are getting better all the time just the same eroding previous discrete GPU sales territory being replaced with more eco and SFF friendly all in one solutions.

If they can pretty much entice many people into buying the more expensive option and a lot of them keep doing so what do you think the odds of that changing in a hurry is!? Even without taking into account mining that rings true though mining of course pours fuel on the fire. I mean I'm not arguing the mid range GPU market is messy and all, but abandoned feeling almost today, but I've got a lot of skepticism about either GPU maker doing what's in the interest of consumers over their own pockets milking bottom line.

Really look no further than AMD on the CPU side today in relation to Intel. AMD is doing great from a performance standpoint, but the value for dollar beyond a certain threshold is getting pretty poor their evolving into what Intel was prior to Ryzen while Intel is trying to claw it's way back, but hasn't been convincingly successful at it quite yet though I think they'll hit their stride again in due time. It's hard to hold much faith in big corporations not taking advantage of consumers they aren't exactly held to much of consumer friendly standard and toe the line of rather unethical in many cases.

 

[AusWolf]

I get the wafers and yields situation, but halo products command higher price premiums and you get too close to iGPU performance and the demand is low to non existent or replaced quickly by a iGPU which is also why the demand is low. On the very bottom end of the spectrum people will gravitate toward the latest iGPU in certain instances. Who needs or wants a discrete GPU that a APU can nearly rival!? They still have a ways to catch up, but are getting better all the time just the same eroding previous discrete GPU sales territory being replaced with more eco and SFF friendly all in one solutions.

Again, I'm not talking about iGPU level performance. That's usually x10 GeForce level territory, though the last such card made was the GT 710.

Besides, the only iGPU worth mentioning in the same sentence with the word gaming is AMD's Vega line in the latest Ryzen 4000G and 5000G series - that you can't buy on their own through DIY retail, only as parts of pre-built systems. The fastest current-gen iGPU you can buy in a processor is Intel's latest UHD 750, which still 2x slower than the GeForce GT 1030 which was released 4 years ago as an office/HTPC card.

No, I'm talking about x50 GeForce level performance, like the 2014-16 midrange king 750 Ti, the 1050 Ti, or the entire GTX 16 series. No iGPU can be as fast as a 60-120 W graphics card of the same era.

It's hard to hold much faith in big corporations not taking advantage of consumers they aren't exactly held to much of consumer friendly standard and toe the line of rather unethical in many cases.

I'm not expecting any corporation to be more consumer friendly. I'm just surprised that both AMD and nvidia left such a large and important part of their product stack empty. Miners buying up all the halo products, thus not necessitating to make anything else might be a logical explanation, but mid-range is (usually) where big money is made through volume (which is also not possible because of the component shortage, giving another possible explanation for the problem), but is so far left untouched by current-gen products.

 

[Pumper]

Miners buying up all the halo products, thus not necessitating to make anything else might be a logical explanation, but mid-range is (usually) where big money is made through volume (which is also not possible because of the component shortage, giving another possible explanation for the problem), but is so far left untouched by current-gen products.

Well, there's no mystery here. If you can only make 1000 GPUs and you know that you'll sell all of them instantly, why use that capacity for lower end parts with lower profit margins?

 

[Legacy-ZA]

Well, there's no mystery here. If you can only make 1000 GPUs and you know that you'll sell all of them instantly, why use that capacity for lower end parts with lower profit margins?

Yes that is what we were told right? But now, let's play the logical game... Weren't manufacturers supposed to have many many many many more of these lower-end chips? Since hey, not all can be workable 3090/3080/3070/3060 chips for example right? Starting to see the lie?

*Edit*

Oh, and one more thing, if they already had started selling the 3050Ti and 3050, don't you think they would have made MORE money and not less? Why the hold back?