Bitcoin price suddenly surges to 3-year high

[SirPerfluous]

Just read that in China if you know someone who is mining you can narc on them to the authorities. Wonder how that will pan out. I know many people are not fond of miners but he is still your neighbor. Unless he is the type that borrows stuff and forgets to return it. Then he deserve it.

It will likely work out well for the CCP.
Unfortunately the Chinese people have been subject to endless propaganda, mostly nationalist.
All they have to do is claim Bitcoin is being used by the US to destroy chinese "culture"
They will have an army of overzealous nationalist vigilantes, ready to bust everyone that "supports their enemies"
Decades of lies has really changed their society and culture.

"the bigger the lie.." or something like that

 

[RandallFlagg]

I think some big money is buying BTC, but small money is selling.

Reason I say that is this. The top graph is RSI which only looks at price, specifically movement of price up or down per transaction. It does not care how big the transaction is. The horizontal bar is 50 which is to say, up/down are even. The orange horizontal is 50/50 on these.

The bottom one MFI includes volume. You can see how big upside volume is on MFI,it's sustained above 50 and a lot over 80 which is huge meaning big up volume.

But the top one shows numerically more trades are down, even as big volume trades are pushing it up.

These two things are in opposition to each other.

The moment big money buys drop out the market tanks and gaps down. I think someone(s) are trying to calm the little guy into not selling, and maybe buying.

Pump n dump..

View attachment 201213

 

[ShiBDiB]

I think some big money is buying BTC, but small money is selling.

Reason I say that is this. The top graph is RSI which only looks at price, specifically movement of price up or down per transaction. It does not care how big the transaction is. The horizontal bar is 50 which is to say, up/down are even. The orange horizontal is 50/50 on these.

The bottom one MFI includes volume. You can see how big upside volume is on MFI,it's sustained above 50 and a lot over 80 which is huge meaning big up volume.

But the top one shows numerically more trades are down, even as big volume trades are pushing it up.

These two things are in opposition to each other.

The moment big money buys drop out the market tanks and gaps down. I think someone(s) are trying to calm the little guy into not selling, and maybe buying.

Pump n dump..

View attachment 201213

They're both still not close to thresholds that "say" anything. I think you're over analyzing here.

This is also assuming TA means anything at all with crypto (it more often than not doesn't)

 

[MentalAcetylide]

Just read that in China if you know someone who is mining you can narc on them to the authorities. Wonder how that will pan out. I know many people are not fond of miners but he is still your neighbor. Unless he is the type that borrows stuff and forgets to return it. Then he deserve it.

Or if they're "borrowing" your electricity for free without you knowing to run their mining farm.

 

[RandallFlagg]

They're both still not close to thresholds that "say" anything. I think you're over analyzing here.

This is also assuming TA means anything at all with crypto (it more often than not doesn't)

Actually I believe just the opposite about TA. See, TA is all about watching the flow of buyers and sellers in and out of the market. That's what it is really charting. Those flows are largely driven by herd behavior and emotion, which is chartable in large groups.

On a regular stock market though, there are other factors. Derivatives / options tend to set a floor on downwards moves and cap upwards moves, keeps prices stable. You also have things like dividends, show me Apple at $20 and I'll buy it for the dividend, screw growth.

Bitcoin has none of that, it's just herds of people being emotional.

 

[MentalAcetylide]

I think some big money is buying BTC, but small money is selling.

Reason I say that is this. The top graph is RSI which only looks at price, specifically movement of price up or down per transaction. It does not care how big the transaction is. The horizontal bar is 50 which is to say, up/down are even. The orange horizontal is 50/50 on these.

The bottom one MFI includes volume. You can see how big upside volume is on MFI,it's sustained above 50 and a lot over 80 which is huge meaning big up volume.

But the top one shows numerically more trades are down, even as big volume trades are pushing it up.

These two things are in opposition to each other.

The moment big money buys drop out the market tanks and gaps down. I think someone(s) are trying to calm the little guy into not selling, and maybe buying.

Pump n dump..

View attachment 201213

Yup, the big guys pump & dump while the little guys get humped & dumped. I think its still safer to go hunting with Dick Cheney.

 

[ShiBDiB]

Actually I believe just the opposite about TA. See, TA is all about watching the flow of buyers and sellers in and out of the market. That's what it is really charting. Those flows are largely driven by herd behavior and emotion, which is chartable in large groups.

On a regular stock market though, there are other factors. Derivatives / options tend to set a floor on downwards moves and cap upwards moves, keeps prices stable. You also have things like dividends, show me Apple at $20 and I'll buy it for the dividend, screw growth.

Bitcoin has none of that, it's just herds of people being emotional.

That's what certain TA indicators are and a very narrow view of TA as a whole but.. okie dokie

 

[trog100]

I still don't think this is your average whale dick waving. There is a bigger thing going on.

It isn't the whales just pulling out either because this wasn't going to just stop until it was made to stop.

yes something is going on.. i aint entirely sure what but something is..

trog

 

[Hemmingstamp]

(even though technically I’m part of it)

A little self loathing once in a while doesn't hurt. I've been practising it for decades

 

[moproblems99]

I think its still safer to go hunting with Dick Cheney.

+2 Eth to you sir.

 

[MentalAcetylide]

+2 Eth to you sir.

Thanks! I'll use it as a down payment for extracting all of the birdshot from my rosy cheeks.

 

[Chomiq]

A lot of Binance things seem to be occurring. Anything in particular you're talking about? The unreliable webpage, I think I see some Tether getting tied in, and Caymen Islands, etc. etc. You'll have to be more specific: a lot of these ills are common to a lot of Cryptocoin stuff in general, lol. So I'm curious what specifically seems to be changing in this past week or so...

The DoJ/IRS investigation?

 

[lexluthermiester]

Actually I believe just the opposite about TA. See, TA is all about watching the flow of buyers and sellers in and out of the market. That's what it is really charting. Those flows are largely driven by herd behavior and emotion, which is chartable in large groups.

On a regular stock market though, there are other factors. Derivatives / options tend to set a floor on downwards moves and cap upwards moves, keeps prices stable. You also have things like dividends, show me Apple at $20 and I'll buy it for the dividend, screw growth.

Bitcoin has none of that, it's just herds of people being emotional.

This very neatly sums up cryptocoin. Which is why it needs world-wide strict regulation.

 

[trog100]

it would seem to me that bitcoin has to find a real bottom.. once it finds this it can start to go up again..

some of the fear needs taking out of the market once this happens all these ups and down will go away..

just for the record i am one of those people that think bitcoin is the future and it has much higher to go..

trog

 

[R0H1T]

It will likely work out well for the CCP.

Yeah except if you know people in all the right places you're probably good to go, that's what actually happens in 99.99% of the world.

 

[LFaWolf]

it would seem to me that bitcoin has to find a real bottom.. once it finds this it can start to go up again..

some of the fear needs taking out of the market once this happens all these ups and down will go away..

just for the record i am one of those people that think bitcoin is the future and it has much higher to go..

trog

This is the main problem with all the coins - how do you when is the "real" bottom? For security such as Amazon, I can say I will invest in it based on so many hard data that I can research - P/E ratio, its R&D, return on capital, revenue growth year over year. If the sales is down 30% this quarter compared to last, I can research - is it losing market share to Walmart? Why is it down? And then I can make a determination if I want to sell my shares or continue to hold.

With any of the coins, none is backed by anything. It is just pure speculation. "They will continue to go up." Or, "they will hit the bottom soon." How? How does one know? If you didn't sell at $60k, will you sell at $80k? $100k? $1M? $1645.32?

I don't hate miners, I just don't think coins investment can be considered as investment. More like gambling on the roulette table.

 

[Hemmingstamp]

More like gambling on the roulette table.

How do you think the global economy works? Ever heard the term 'Casino style banking'?

The wealthy never lose at the table because the Fed will always print more if they do. It's a broken system and needs fixing.
FIAT just doesn't cut it in the 21st century. It's backed by nothing but credit with a promise to pay it back on top.

Many are locked out of this system, why not let some kid with one or two GPU's earn some extra cash?
I could go on but I guess you can understand what I'm saying.

 

[Vya Domus]

This is the main problem with all the coins - how do you when is the "real" bottom? For security such as Amazon, I can say I will invest in it based on so many hard data that I can research - P/E ratio, its R&D, return on capital, revenue growth year over year. If the sales is down 30% this quarter compared to last, I can research - is it losing market share to Walmart? Why is it down? And then I can make a determination if I want to sell my shares or continue to hold.

With any of the coins, none is backed by anything. It is just pure speculation. "They will continue to go up." Or, "they will hit the bottom soon." How? How does one know? If you didn't sell at $60k, will you sell at $80k? $100k? $1M? $1645.32?

I don't hate miners, I just don't think coins investment can be considered as investment. More like gambling on the roulette table.

I think you're mixing up a few things here. People speculate on Amazon stock as much as they do on BTC, that's technically the mechanism by which the act of investing works. You trade something based on the expectation that it's value will go up/down, for whatever reason, it could be a wild guess or technical analysis, it's still speculation.

These coins are supposed to become the backbone of how transactions are performed in the future, people judge whether or not a coin will be successful on it's potential to become a useful part in that future infrastructure. Or at least that's how it's supposed to work, however most of the time that clearly isn't the case and that's how you get stuff like Dogecoin being the sixth largest coin by market cap. And yes, in those cases it's more or less gambling, you buy some doge hoping that Elon tweets some dumb shit about it.

Crypto wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the monumental horseshit that slips through the cracks from time to time, that's also why so many make fun of it and can't take it seriously, it's more or less well deserved.

 

[LFaWolf]

I think you're mixing up a few things here. People speculate on Amazon stock as much as they do on BTC, that's technically the mechanism by which the act of investing works. You trade something based on the expectation that it's value will go up/down, for whatever reason, it could be a wild guess or technical analysis, it's still speculation.

These coins are supposed to become the backbone of how transactions are performed in the future, people judge whether or not a coin will be successful on it's potential to become a useful part in that future infrastructure. Or at least that's how it's supposed to work, however most of the time that clearly isn't the case and that's how you get stuff like Dogecoin being the sixth largest coin by market cap. And yes, in those cases it's more or less gambling, you buy some doge hoping that Elon tweets some dumb shit about it.

Crypto wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the monumental horseshit that slips through the cracks from time to time, that's also why so many make fun of it and can't take it seriously, it's more or less well deserved.

You misunderstood my point. Although the current stock price is based on future earning expectation, at least I have some hard data, historical and current, and from competitors, that I can study and make a determination. Current crypto price is nothing but a speculation of up or down, by reading data from maybe market sentiment, and very prone to manipulation. It is no longer a vehicle as digital currency as it was intended when created.

How do you think the global economy works? Ever heard the term 'Casino style banking'?

The wealthy never lose at the table because the Fed will always print more if they do. It's a broken system and needs fixing.
FIAT just doesn't cut it in the 21st century. It's backed by nothing but credit with a promise to pay it back on top.

Many are locked out of this system, why not let some kid with one or two GPU's earn some extra cash?
I could go on but I guess you can understand what I'm saying.

I have no problem with that, or with people mining the coins. But don't you think, there are also the really rich people, either hedge fund or investors, that are also manipulating the market somewhat to their gains, and hurting smaller "investors" that have a case of FOMO? It is just when people put real money into betting that it will continue to go up, and risk losing significant money, that is when I feel bad for people for falling for it.

Saw this last night. Pretty neat setup actually. I don't have a problem buying a used card from him in 3 months for half the price
https://www.reddit.com/r/EtherMining/comments/nfppnv

 

[ShiBDiB]

You misunderstood my point. Although the current stock price is based on future earning expectation, at least I have some hard data, historical and current, and from competitors, that I can study and make a determination. Current crypto price is nothing but a speculation of up or down, by reading data from maybe market sentiment, and very prone to manipulation. It is no longer a vehicle as digital currency as it was intended when created.


I have no problem with that, or with people mining the coins. But don't you think, there are also the really rich people, either hedge fund or investors, that are also manipulating the market somewhat to their gains, and hurting smaller "investors" that have a case of FOMO? It is just when people put real money into betting that it will continue to go up, and risk losing significant money, that is when I feel bad for people for falling for it.

Saw this last night. Pretty neat setup actually. I don't have a problem buying a used card from him in 3 months for half the price
https://www.reddit.com/r/EtherMining/comments/nfppnv

Ah so this is why 98% of people can't get their hands on a GPU...

It's cool, but part of me hopes coins completely shit the bed because of people like this.

 

[trog100]

i just watched a bitcoin guy say what he thinks money is.. he say that in 10 years time bitcoin will be worth 12 million dollars which in todays purchasing power will actually be 1 million dollars due to all the money printing thats going on..

what is "money"..??.. money is something you sell (exchange) your time for.. you then buy or sell other peoples time..

he also said that central banks who create money for nothing are actually stealing peoples time.. a kind of slavery in essence.. he thinks bitcoin is a way out of this basically corrupt system..

i kind of liked what he said..

trog

 

[80-watt Hamster]

i just watched a bitcoin guy say what he thinks money is.. he say that in 10 years time bitcoin will be worth 12 million dollars which in todays purchasing power will actually be 1 million dollars due to all the money printing thats going on..

what is "money"..??.. money is something you sell (exchange) your time for.. you then buy or sell other peoples time..

he also said that central banks who create money for nothing are actually stealing peoples time.. a kind of slavery in essence.. he thinks bitcoin is a way out of this basically corrupt system..

i kind of liked what he said..

trog

Probably the only concrete thing of the little I understand about money, or any symbolic means of exchange, is that every single one is empty at the bottom. The only reason any of it has value is because of trust and social agreement. After that, it's all about administration. Doesn't matter if it's fiat currency, gold, or crypto: Unless a thing can be used in direct support of biological function, it is essentially valueless at its core. All these means of exchange are convenient substitutions, and aren't inherently different in this regard. The supply of fiat is controlled by the issuing authority, the supply of crypto is controlled by the algorithm, which is still controlled by someone. All systems are governed by rules, and where there are rules, there are ways to exploit those rules. Corruption doesn't go away because you designed a better system. (Conveniently setting aside the argument of whether crypto is a better system.)

 

[trog100]

Probably the only concrete thing of the little I understand about money, or any symbolic means of exchange, is that every single one is empty at the bottom. The only reason any of it has value is because of trust and social agreement. After that, it's all about administration. Doesn't matter if it's fiat currency, gold, or crypto: Unless a thing can be used in direct support of biological function, it is essentially valueless at its core. All these means of exchange are convenient substitutions, and aren't inherently different in this regard. The supply of fiat is controlled by the issuing authority, the supply of crypto is controlled by the algorithm, which is still controlled by someone. All systems are governed by rules, and where there are rules, there are ways to exploit those rules. Corruption doesn't go away because you designed a better system. (Conveniently setting aside the argument of whether crypto is a better system.)

it all goes back to the fractional reserve banking system.. this basically allowed banks to lend out money they didnt have.. in a sense the first attempt at creating money out of thin air.. it works until it dosnt..

trog

 

[Zach_01]

I do believe that the current monetary system is full of holes and insufficiencies in the long term. "They" made it like this the last 50 years to keep producing debt and profit.
Crypto and blockchain on the other hand is far from being a replacement. It is still in its infancy (even as an idea), let alone in practice.

For now "they" using it to just profit by manipulating psychology. Keeping it in the "joke" zone by keeping it volatile.
I do believe it has future, but it is very unrealistic to let it be without even the slightest control. "They" like to control people and their lives, always looking down the herd.

 

[80-watt Hamster]

it all goes back to the fractional reserve banking system.. this basically allowed banks to lend out money they didnt have.. in a sense the first attempt at creating money out of thin air.. it works until it dosnt..

trog

Fractional reserve is much older than either central banking or fiat currency, and has proved to be pretty stable. Over-leveraging, however, is a significant risk, and since the financial industry can't help pushing the limits of everything, is really common today. The Great Recession highlighted this nicely. And since almost everyone got bailed out, nothing's really changed except the restructuring of derivatives. Throwing new money at a problem is a lot easier than fixing the system or enacting unpopular regulation.