Ryzen Owners Zen Garden

[tabascosauz]

So, in theory, the +200MHz shouldn't affect stability since it just lets PBO go higher if conditions are right?

It really shouldn't, especially since it sounds like your chip isn't benefiting much from the +200MHz ceiling. Though there are some owners who say that Corecycler turns up errors even at stock boost with 0 offset, so never say never I guess.

Your performance in Minecraft with shaders; is that on your 4650G and its iGPU?

As I said a few posts ago, I'm running the "All The Mods 3" mod pack with a couple of extra mods that I like thrown in (341 mods in total). I can sustain my FPS limit of 144 pretty much all the time now, but my CPU temps are higher than synthetic loads.

I haven't done any real tests in the vanilla game yet.

No, on my main with 5900X/2060 Super @ 1440p. I haven't played minecraft on my HTPC ever I think. The 165fps is just because I V-sync on my S2721DGF which is a 165Hz monitor.

Damn, that's a lot of mods. Yeah, I don't have nearly even 10% of that running on MC. Vanilla or Optifine runs really easy on CPU and GPU, it's just with shaders where it goes completely berserk and still churns out barely 90fps.

 

[Mussels]

+200 should be stable and fine IF you dont have any undervolting going on (or serious Vdroop) - doesnt mean you'll get the +200 unless conditions are good (enough spare power in the PBO limits, low enough temps)

 

[sam_86314]

+200 should be stable and fine IF you dont have any undervolting going on (or serious Vdroop) - doesnt mean you'll get the +200 unless conditions are good (enough spare power in the PBO limits, low enough temps)

Decided to give it a try. CB runs were perfectly fine. BSOD'd while watching YouTube. No voltage offset or anything. Back down to my previous settings. Guess my chip is somewhat of a dud; oh well.

 

[Mussels]

Decided to give it a try. CB runs were perfectly fine. BSOD'd while watching YouTube. No voltage offset or anything. Back down to my previous settings. Guess my chip is somewhat of a dud; oh well.

crashes at low load can also be ram/IF related, they're the bane of ryzen lol

 

[Nuckles56]

crashes at low load can also be ram/IF related, they're the bane of ryzen lol

That and also board related, as some BIOS settings make a big difference, I had issues with low load crashes for a while even with everything at stock. Thanks gigabyte...

 

[R-T-B]

I'm trying to decide which memory kit to use when my Ryzen gets here. For the record, they are g.skill brand and I own both, and the CPU is a Ryzen R7 5800X on a Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite.

Kit one is four sticks of dual rank 16GB for a total of 64GBs of ram at DDR4-3200. Kit two is four sticks of single rank 8GBs for a total of 32GBs at the same DDR4-3200 speed and timings (14-14-14-34)

They are both verified B-die.

I don't know how well the Zen 3 memory controller will handle 4 dural rank sticks. I need to clock up to at least DDR4-3200 to get the performance I desire. Is that doable, usually?

Someone with experience help a frog out. Can I expect the 64GB kit to work or do I have to roll back to the single rank kit here?

 

[Space Lynx]

I'm trying to decide which memory kit to use when my Ryzen gets here. For the record, they are g.skill brand and I own both, and the CPU is a Ryzen R7 5800X on a Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite.

Kit one is four sticks of dual rank 16GB for a total of 64GBs of ram at DDR4-3200. Kit two is four sticks of single rank 8GBs for a total of 32GBs at the same DDR4-3200 speed and timings (14-14-14-34)

They are both verified B-die.

I don't know how well the Zen 3 memory controller will handle 4 dural rank sticks. I need to clock up to at least DDR4-3200 to get the performance I desire. Is that doable, usually?

Someone with experience help a frog out. Can I expect the 64GB kit to work or do I have to roll back to the single rank kit here?

I expect the sing rank x4 will do best and very easy to OC to 3600 cas 14 or 15.

if i were to do the DR setup... I think I would just do 2x16gb for 32 total and OC it to like 3600 cas 15. four sticks prob won't be able to OC though im not sure on this.

i really don't think you want to be content with 3200, gamersnexus and hardware unboxed both did videos showing you want to be running around 3600-3800 in range and either 4x 8gb sticks or 2x16gb dr sticks. something weird about the way ryzen 5xxx does memory. but you get like 10% fps gain by doing it this way.

 

[tabascosauz]

I'm trying to decide which memory kit to use when my Ryzen gets here. For the record, they are g.skill brand and I own both, and the CPU is a Ryzen R7 5800X on a Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite.

Kit one is four sticks of dual rank 16GB for a total of 64GBs of ram at DDR4-3200. Kit two is four sticks of single rank 8GBs for a total of 32GBs at the same DDR4-3200 speed and timings (14-14-14-34)

They are both verified B-die.

I don't know how well the Zen 3 memory controller will handle 4 dural rank sticks. I need to clock up to at least DDR4-3200 to get the performance I desire. Is that doable, usually?

Someone with experience help a frog out. Can I expect the 64GB kit to work or do I have to roll back to the single rank kit here?

4x16GB at 3200 shouldn't be much of a problem.
4x8GB is as easy as 2x16GB, just keep a small fan on it - eye on the heat dumped on it by the 3070 during gaming.

4x16GB is quite the load on the UMC, but 3200 is no sweat. If you can stretch it to 3600 I'd still keep the VDIMM really low and thus stay at CL16 or so, because B-die being temp sensitive has a pretty bad time with four dual rank sticks clustered together at 1.4V+, even with a dedicated RAM fan. Don't expect the D15 to do anything for 4x16GB B-die.

Though honestly, if you find that you want more than 3200 at 64GB, your best bet is just to go with new Ballistix with 16Gb Micron Rev.B. 16Gb ICs so double the density, 64GB in either 4x16GB single rank sticks, or 2x32GB dual rank sticks, scales up past 4000 no problem just needs to relax the timings compared to B-die. And two DIMMs will allow for plenty of airflow. Not sure if the 3200 kit is Rev.B though, certain the 3600 kit will be though.

 

[R-T-B]

i really don't think you want to be content with 3200, gamersnexus and hardware unboxed both did videos showing you want to be running around 3600-3800 in range and either 4x 8gb sticks or 2x16gb dr sticks.

I've read both. The difference between DDR4-3200 and DDR-3600 is around 1-2%.

It's diminishing returns. DDR4-3200 seems to be the one you "must hit" and beyond that it's just icing on the cake.

This is hardwareunboxed's text article, for reference:

Ryzen 5000 Memory Performance Guide

In this article we'll be searching for Zen 3's memory sweet spot and looking at DDR4 memory performance with the new Ryzen 5000 CPU series, and a...

www.techspot.com

If I can do DDR4-3200 at native timings, I'll likely just stick with the 64GB kit.

Are we sure that total of 8 ranks isn't going to kill the IMC's ability to clock though? I've read a few articles and quite a few reddit posts calling this into question, but no one has seemingly actually tried it.

 

[Space Lynx]

I've read both. The difference between DDR4-3200 and DDR-3600 is around 1-2%.

It's diminishing returns. DDR4-3200 seems to be the one you "must hit" and beyond that it's just icing on the cake.

This is hardwareunboxed's text article, for reference:

Ryzen 5000 Memory Performance Guide

In this article we'll be searching for Zen 3's memory sweet spot and looking at DDR4 memory performance with the new Ryzen 5000 CPU series, and a...

www.techspot.com

If I can do DDR4-3200 at native timings, I'll likely just stick with the 64GB kit.

Are we sure that total of 8 ranks isn't going to kill the IMC's ability to clock though? I've read a few articles and quite a few reddit posts calling this into question, but no one has seemingly actually tried it.

hmm for some reason I thought it was 10%

well XMP will def work just fine with the 64gb kit. i'd say go with that if you don't want to push it higher clock


ya i think if it were me i'd do 64gb kit at xmp and leave it be.

 

[R-T-B]

hmm for some reason I thought it was 10%

well XMP will def work just fine with the 64gb kit. i'd say go with that if you don't want to push it higher clock


ya i think if it were me i'd do 64gb kit at xmp and leave it be.

My main reason for wanting the additional ram is for my development work and for Kerbal Space Program (ram pig), so yeah that's probably what I will do.

 

[tabascosauz]

My main reason for wanting the additional ram is for my development work and for Kerbal Space Program (ram pig), so yeah that's probably what I will do.

Even the chiplet Ryzens have a much stronger memory controller than most people give them credit for. Infinity Fabric =! memory controller. Most redditors have a hard time distinguishing between the two.

I'm pretty confident 4 ranks per channel 3200 should be easily achievable, but when thinking about higher speeds keep in mind that the Aorus Elite is a 4-layer board. Best case on 4-layer boards, vendors generally will not QVL above 4400 on 1 rank per channel, and 3733 on 2 ranks per channel, so expecting 3600 on 4 ranks per channel for said board may be a bit of a stretch, can't say whether that would or would not be possible.

 

[Space Lynx]

My main reason for wanting the additional ram is for my development work and for Kerbal Space Program (ram pig), so yeah that's probably what I will do.

Also, I always thought the jokes about Chrome were unfounded... I checked it yesterday... I had 7 tabs open... and I was using 53% ram on a 16gb system... just steam, and 7 tabs of chrome. absolutely non-sense.

 

[R-T-B]

Also, I always thought the jokes about Chrome were unfounded... I checked it yesterday... I had 7 tabs open... and I was using 53% ram on a 16gb system... just steam, and 7 tabs of chrome. absolutely non-sense.

Development can be worse than you can possibly imagine, ram wise

 

[Mussels]

I'm trying to decide which memory kit to use when my Ryzen gets here. For the record, they are g.skill brand and I own both, and the CPU is a Ryzen R7 5800X on a Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite.

Kit one is four sticks of dual rank 16GB for a total of 64GBs of ram at DDR4-3200. Kit two is four sticks of single rank 8GBs for a total of 32GBs at the same DDR4-3200 speed and timings (14-14-14-34)

They are both verified B-die.

I don't know how well the Zen 3 memory controller will handle 4 dural rank sticks. I need to clock up to at least DDR4-3200 to get the performance I desire. Is that doable, usually?

Someone with experience help a frog out. Can I expect the 64GB kit to work or do I have to roll back to the single rank kit here?

3200 should be fine with 8 ranks on zen 3, but earlier zen would have struggled - you may need to raise SoC voltage slightly, at worst.

 

[R-T-B]

3200 should be fine with 8 ranks on zen 3, but earlier zen would have struggled - you may need to raise SoC voltage slightly, at worst.

My board (got it on sale) has a pretty good vrm (for a 4-layer) on everything but SOC where it's sort of bare bones. Still picture it will be enough though...

 

[freeagent]

Guess my chip is somewhat of a dud; oh well.

Try a little more SOC voltage, maybe 1.125v and more IOD votlage, maybe 1.06v or a bit more..

You shouldn't have to use any kind of offset, vcore wise anyways..

 

[tabascosauz]

My board (got it on sale) has a pretty good vrm (for a 4-layer) on everything but SOC where it's sort of bare bones. Still picture it will be enough though...

4 ranks per channel is a tough load but at just 3200 even on 2 ranks per channel easily runs on VSOC as low as 0.9-0.95V. I just don't see it needing to exceed 1.1V worst case. On 3200 XMP the boards generally call for 1.0-1.05V or so default?

The component choice of the VSOC portion is a little meh on the Elite, but it hardly matters as long as you have 2 VSOC phases. I've not seen any AM4 board with excessive VSOC droop.........as long as you're not torturing APUs like me, without iGPU the VSOC domain never really pulls more than about 20A or so current

 

[R-T-B]

4 ranks per channel is a tough load but at just 3200 even on 2 ranks per channel easily runs on VSOC as low as 0.9-0.95V. I just don't see it needing to exceed 1.1V worst case. On 3200 XMP the boards generally call for 1.0-1.05V or so default?

The component choice of the VSOC portion is a little meh on the Elite, but it hardly matters as long as you have 2 VSOC phases. I've not seen any AM4 board with excessive VSOC droop.........as long as you're not torturing APUs like me, without iGPU the VSOC domain never really pulls more than about 20A or so current

Takes 1.15 but seemingly is stable. I doubt that's a voltage worth worrying about, right?

 

[Space Lynx]

Takes 1.15 but seemingly is stable. I doubt that's a voltage worth worrying about, right?

dram calculator shows several different variants using 1.15v i think its fine

 

[tabascosauz]

Takes 1.15 but seemingly is stable. I doubt that's a voltage worth worrying about, right?

No need to worry below 1.2V. 1.15V is a bit high but that's by single/dual rank standards, obvs not the same. It's just that usually you'll want to run as low VSOC as you can, also helps to shave off a little bit of SOC power draw. But you'll need to test it over time (weeks/months of use) to find out what VSOC is stable or not. Often when IF stability is an issue it's less a question of VSOC as it is secondary voltages like the VDDGs and VDDP.

Must-have tool to get you started, our AMD version of ASRock Timing Configurator: ZenTimings (protonrom.com)
Take a screenie, let's see what setings you're defaulting to on XMP

DRAM Calc is rather pointless on most things, but there are quite a few experienced B-die OCers on Ryzen in the AIDA thread that might help you out with secondaries/tertiaries and minor voltages. I only do B-die OC on my APU and don't touch much on my 5900X so I'm rather useless when it comes to chiplet CPU know-how.

Share your AIDA 64 cache and memory benchmark here | TechPowerUp Forums

I know for sure that @freeagent runs 4 sticks B-die and benches 24/7 might have specific advice to offer

 

[thesmokingman]

I finally got around to flashing to the latest 4002 bios on my strix-e. It was surprisingly smooth taking my memory settings without too much fuss. Previous bios flashes meant a an hour or so of fiddling to massage my known good mem oc's but this time it took with much more ease. I also enabled curve optimizer to drop the voltage a lil bit for summer. I miss the low ambient already.

 

[freeagent]

I know for sure that @freeagent runs 4 sticks B-die and benches 24/7 might have specific advice to offer

Steve touched off on that once, I am that guy in an arms race against myself

 

[R-T-B]

Ended up switching to the 32GB set due to ongoing stablilty issues... it seems quad rank scenarios are still really rough on the Ryzen IMC. The new dual rank situation is working much nicer, already at 3400Mhz with Infinity fabric in sync and all that with no voltage bump at all. Think I will stay like this and see how far I can go...

Final result: Note, this must be poorly binned b-die, it absolutely refuses to do 1T and the tRAS won't go much lower... Also 3800 hurts my timings in such a way as to not be worth it.

Still I am happy:

 

[tabascosauz]

Ended up switching to the 32GB set due to ongoing stablilty issues... it seems quad rank scenarios are still really rough on the Ryzen IMC. The new dual rank situation is working much nicer, already at 3400Mhz with Infinity fabric in sync and all that with no voltage bump at all. Think I will stay like this and see how far I can go...

Final result: Note, this must be poorly binned b-die, it absolutely refuses to do 1T and the tRAS won't go much lower... Also 3800 hurts my timings in such a way as to not be worth it.

Still I am happy:

View attachment 207084

It's shouldn't be badly binned B-die. What year production do the stickers say? The only badly binned B-die I've ever seen is old Corsair kits where B-die had no business being at those crappy XMP speeds.

3600 flat 15 is impressive but those timings look pretty loose. But you are already at 1.45V, I'd think that your existing VDIMM would be more than enough for tightening some timings. Probably wouldn't want to go much higher without paying attention to 4DIMM airflow too.

• If you're just dailying your system, no reason to go below tRAS=tCL+tRCDRD, where you already are.
• tRC 85 is pretty high, try to bring that down to 45 or at least 55.
• Try tRRDS/RRDL/FAW - 4/6/16.
• Try tWTRS/WTRL/WR - 4/12/12.
• Try tRDRDSCL/WRWRSCL - 4/4.
• Try tRDWR - 8.

imo those timings are just easy to default to on half-decent or better B-die, but tRFC is arguably a bigger deal - tRFC is like 50% of the equation when it comes to B-die latency figures. XMP is always super loose, for a daily you should be 160ns at the very least. Below 150ns it starts getting tougher and depends on the quality of your sticks as well as the VDIMM you want to push, because tRFC scales visibly with VDIMM especially when you get into the 130-140ish range.

Helpful chart I've been using since forever: