Subtle micro-stutter, input lag, floaty mouse feel - computer feels off

[SweetPhilosophy]

Has anyone suggested turning off all "power saving" features, both in bios and in windows? Specifically turn off pci-e link state management in windows, then off usb select suspend in windows , and use the "high performance" power plan. Also make sure nvidia drivers are set to maximum performance in nvidia control panel.

Also try disabling all audio devices and run your games that way and see what happens.

Not sure if someone suggested here but I definitely tried disabling everything you mentioned already. Nvidia driver is set to maximum performance as well as high performance plan from windows (I also tried enabling and using ultra performance mode) and it's the same.
Just tried with all audio devices and drivers disabled and it makes no difference.

More than this my friend with similar build didn't do anything else extra, he's using vanilla windows, bios (only DOCP activated) and nvidia settings, so I don't really know it's just frustrating

 

[Mussels]

Not sure if someone suggested here but I definitely tried disabling everything you mentioned already. Nvidia driver is set to maximum performance as well as high performance plan from windows (I also tried enabling and using ultra performance mode) and it's the same.
Just tried with all audio devices and drivers disabled and it makes no difference.

More than this my friend with similar build didn't do anything else extra, he's using vanilla windows, bios (only DOCP activated) and nvidia settings, so I don't really know it's just frustrating

you really gotta involve that friend more and figure things out by swapping parts - such as using your system with his monitor, mouse, keyboard etc

 

[AsRock]

@Papahyooie your judgment, sir? Trolling or real? Not to put you on the spot there, but I think this handily spells out how difficult a stutter problem really is to be conclusive about. Still - I agree its good to be vigilant.

@SweetPhilosophy
First order of business: stop spending money on this rig. You can make do with less and still get the performance right, this isn't a performance problem in terms of hardware. Its like you say: old game. How the F. I agree. The problem is finding the issue and your steps are going in the right direction, even if the SSD might not be required, you can at least chalk it off as a source and SSD performance is never wasted really.

Clean install with your new storage, that is what I would do. Then you build back up from scratch. I'd not jump on step 2 and 3. There is no reason a component/assembly fault is causing such a minor stutter behaviour and no other symptoms like shutdowns and CTDs. Impossible. From a clean OS install, the next step is installing drivers, double check chipset drivers and getting stuff updated. Make no mistake - you will want to check your game performance after an OS update too. Windows has a tendency to return settings to defaults after big feature updates.

But the big one here: everything STOCK. You revert your BIOS to optimized defaults. The whole shebang.

Another route to explore is how an old game actually does with hardware thats way beyond overpowered for it. I mean, LoL SHOULD have something to mitigate that, but if a game is very light and FPS is running uncapped or very high, a load spike can cause stutter simply due to major frametime variance from the high FPS target, if you catch my drift. The gap between normal and lows is simply bigger so it is more pronounced.

Testing with different hardware is testing a different system. Pointless. You want your solution within the hardware setup you have.

Yes i remember GTA 1 HAHAHA, maybe he has to slow the system down to make it more playable ^^, maybe though a tool.

 

[SweetPhilosophy]

Small update: I have been in talks with Nvidia's customer support and they escalated the issue to level 2 support who, after asking me some details and info and logs, told me they are almost 100% sure it's the motherboard. When I asked them what could be the issue with the motherboard they told me that something so subtle as this could could be caused by a lot of things such as vrm issues, micro tearings from factory, lower quality silicon on IC (?) etc. They also told me to contact Asus about this and/or send the motherboard to warranty - I don't really want this because I'm sure they won't notice the issue if they will actually test it out.
I don't see a reason why would they just tell me this to just get over with me, so I'm asking you guys if these things could really cause something subtle like this?
I'm planning to buy a new motherboard and test it out, and for this I have two questions in choosing a new motherboard: should I go for the same chipset B550 or should I go for x570? Aaand should I choose another manufacturer or submanufacturer (don't know how to call them I'm thinking TUF vs ROG which are both made by Asus)?

 

[Mussels]

VRMs overheating can cause weird stutter, the rest of the things they said - no

x570 gives you more bandwidth to the entire board, so if you're keeping it a long time it'll let you use faster expansion cards in the future (a PCI-E 1x 4.0 card will have double the bandwidth on one of these boards, for future wifi, ethernet, USB cards etc)

 

[bbacks26]

Any updates?

 

[SweetPhilosophy]

Any updates?

Hello everyone,
I'm coming with an update. Unfortunately I did not manage to get a new motherboard because of personal issues that came up in the meanwhile, however what else I did was to run the PC removed from the case and there was no result; I also changed the CPU thermal paste, made sure the CPU socket is extra clean and reseat the cooler, still to no effect.
Interesting thing is that 2 days ago I have installed the new nvidia driver which is game ready 466.47 - I had just received a notification from the geforce experience and I was like hell why not - didn't really care much about it to test stuff again because I didn't have any hope BUT a friend asked me if I managed to fix it, decided to open up latencymon and play around and lo and behold my dpc latency was not getting over 300us. I was like what's going on??? I payed extra attention to how ingame behaves (after switching ssd's the stutters were really hard to notice) and there was no stutter during an entire league game

http://imgur.com/a/jnwd65y

(it was usually spiking to ~2300us literally after 10seconds and now 16minutes of nothing??)

The only thing I noticed tho is that it still spikes to ~2300us when I alt-tab but I don't care about that that much.
It's really strange!!! I mean.. I have read the release notes on this driver's version and there's nothing related to what I was experiencing. I just installed it through nvidia geforce checking the clean installation, no ddu, no nothing else fancy.
Why would the Nvidia guys tell me it's the motherboard when clearly now it was something strange with the drivers? Smh
I'm glad, guys, but at the same time it's bittersweet thinking how I was pulling my hair off and nothing was even remotely making it better.
Thank you very much for all of your help and time and sorry again for such a late reply!! If you have any questions let me know I'm glad to clarify things if there's any

 

[fatehasfans]

Sorry guys/gals for not getting back. I still have the problem. I have such a suspicion though that it's something to do with the electricity/earthing etc or some kind of bottlenecking - you know that 'off' feeling your computer has when you don't install your motherboard drivers after a fresh windows installation? Well, it feels like that.

Anyway, I disconnected everything like another poster said and nothing, no change but I just want to point out that the problem with this issue is not only pinning it down but also highlighting it. What I mean by that is that because my computer is quite powerful (for the games I play at least) the micro-stutter and input lag is so subtle that you only notice it when trying to play at a competitive level, so when you need to press 4-5 key combinations lightning quick I'll find the keyboard will often miss a key OR double tap one thus messing up the entire sequence. In fact I find the double-tap (either keyboard or mouse) thing happens quite a lot. When playing games it's a killer. Same with trying to make sharp, abrupt and decisive movements with the mouse it just feels a little 'floaty or heavy'.

Over time I've kinda gotten used to it but my skill level in games has taken such a hit and I'm getting tired of explaining to my friends that it's to do with my input lag (gah!), you know how forgiving friends can be about this stuff :/

Anyway, I appreciate the help and I'll keep plugging away but it's such a hard issue to pinpoint that I'm actually beginning to think I'll just be stuck with it or that this is the new norm with computers and everyone else adapts to it fine.

 

[ThatWeirdInputLag]

@fatehasfans Hello,
You are not alone in this, I have the exact same problem unfortunately. There's always this weird stuttering when looking around with the mouse even if the FPS is higher than my refresh rate or just capped at my refresh rate.
I've tried almost everything that you did, and even more. I've changed my electric socket and added even another grounding line to act for my PC only lol. Problem was still there.
I have changed motherboards, ssd and nvme, cooling solution, repasting, gpu's, Ram sticks, keyboards & mice & headsets "usb and analog", so many bios and OS tweaks its insane, i've been trying to find the solution for the past year and a half. the only thing I have not changed is the CPU.. but more and more i think its really not a cpu issue, its just something with z390 boards. because i went from Aorus Ultra to ROG MAXIMUS HERO XI and they are both high end motherboards that costed me alot of money, and both did not help solving the problem.

My Specs + changes:
- CPU = i9900KS
- Motherboard = Aorus Ultra Z390 --> ROG MAX Hero XI
- Graphics Card = Aorus 2080 Super --> Aorus 2080TI xtreme
- Ram = HyperX Predator 4000cl19 --> Trident Neo 4000cl15
- CPU cooler = Kraken 52 ---> Noctua 15 "something something twin tower black one"
- Storage = SSD --> Nvme.2 Back and forth

What actually made me know that we both have the same problem is that everytime I change something in the bios mainly for the CPU that forces a restart the computer will behave normal and as it should, and the games start acting smoother with way less stutters "still there" but something normal and within reason. ORRRR if i change something in nvidia 3D settings and hit apply.
All things comes to an end "Mostly" when i shut my PC down. I tried to disable fast boot both from windows and bios, but still the same problem always comes back. I'm not sure why I was thinking its electricity even though i've had a PC before that sitting in the same place hooked to the same power sockets and never had this issue with. Even when you described how its hard to try combination key presses on the keyboard and some of them will just not go through I was like daaaym man i know the feeling its suckssss, made me literally go through 4 keyboards man, razer huntsman, ducky one 2 mini, razer huntsman elite 60% "now" and i was done, im like its not the keyboard for sure.

more observations is if you play csgo or any fps for that matter, switching weapons back and forth is just sluggish, and for some reason everytime i alt tab and go back to the game its smooth and responsive for a bit then it goes back to shit..

Hopefully you find a solution, and i'll make sure to update you if i do too.. But for now, i'm done spending more money on this setup, I just can't do it anymore for my own sanity. I'll just wait and probably just buy an entire new setup next year or something.

 

[fatehasfans]

@fatehasfans Hello,
You are not alone in this, I have the exact same problem unfortunately. There's always this weird stuttering when looking around with the mouse even if the FPS is higher than my refresh rate or just capped at my refresh rate.
I've tried almost everything that you did, and even more. I've changed my electric socket and added even another grounding line to act for my PC only lol. Problem was still there.
I have changed motherboards, ssd and nvme, cooling solution, repasting, gpu's, Ram sticks, keyboards & mice & headsets "usb and analog", so many bios and OS tweaks its insane, i've been trying to find the solution for the past year and a half. the only thing I have not changed is the CPU.. but more and more i think its really not a cpu issue, its just something with z390 boards. because i went from Aorus Ultra to ROG MAXIMUS HERO XI and they are both high end motherboards that costed me alot of money, and both did not help solving the problem.

My Specs + changes:
- CPU = i9900KS
- Motherboard = Aorus Ultra Z390 --> ROG MAX Hero XI
- Graphics Card = Aorus 2080 Super --> Aorus 2080TI xtreme
- Ram = HyperX Predator 4000cl19 --> Trident Neo 4000cl15
- CPU cooler = Kraken 52 ---> Noctua 15 "something something twin tower black one"
- Storage = SSD --> Nvme.2 Back and forth

What actually made me know that we both have the same problem is that everytime I change something in the bios mainly for the CPU that forces a restart the computer will behave normal and as it should, and the games start acting smoother with way less stutters "still there" but something normal and within reason. ORRRR if i change something in nvidia 3D settings and hit apply.
All things comes to an end "Mostly" when i shut my PC down. I tried to disable fast boot both from windows and bios, but still the same problem always comes back. I'm not sure why I was thinking its electricity even though i've had a PC before that sitting in the same place hooked to the same power sockets and never had this issue with. Even when you described how its hard to try combination key presses on the keyboard and some of them will just not go through I was like daaaym man i know the feeling its suckssss, made me literally go through 4 keyboards man, razer huntsman, ducky one 2 mini, razer huntsman elite 60% "now" and i was done, im like its not the keyboard for sure.

more observations is if you play csgo or any fps for that matter, switching weapons back and forth is just sluggish, and for some reason everytime i alt tab and go back to the game its smooth and responsive for a bit then it goes back to shit..

Hopefully you find a solution, and i'll make sure to update you if i do too.. But for now, i'm done spending more money on this setup, I just can't do it anymore for my own sanity. I'll just wait and probably just buy an entire new setup next year or something.

I think I may have found something. I just tested it on a game and the game plays very different than normal, almost quicker and more responsive than normal.

It's late so I will do more tests tomorrow when I have time. But this is what I did, I went into Nvidia settings and turned off V-sync and also turned off G-sync. But also my change resolution settings were different than I normally set - rather than "Ultra HD, HD, SD 1920x1080 (native)" @ 120Hz they were on "PC @ 1920 x 1080" @ 144Hz - loaded up PES and the game feels much smoother as if the animations and input is matching the controls much more - the game feels much more responsive. Will look at other settings also. When I have more time tomorrow I will give you all my settings Nvidia/Bios etc.

Thanks.

 

[Mussels]

I think I may have found something. I just tested it on a game and the game plays very different than normal, almost quicker and more responsive than normal.

It's late so I will do more tests tomorrow when I have time. But this is what I did, I went into Nvidia settings and turned off V-sync and also turned off G-sync. But also my change resolution settings were different than I normally set - rather than "Ultra HD, HD, SD 1920x1080 (native)" @ 120Hz they were on "PC @ 1920 x 1080" @ 144Hz - loaded up PES and the game feels much smoother as if the animations and input is matching the controls much more - the game feels much more responsive. Will look at other settings also. When I have more time tomorrow I will give you all my settings Nvidia/Bios etc.

Thanks.

Wait, so you went from 1080p 120Hz to 1080p 60Hz and its smoother?

you still havent filled out your system specs to make this easier for us, what model monitor is it? How is it connected, HDMI or displayport?

 

[fatehasfans]

Wait, so you went from 1080p 120Hz to 1080p 60Hz and its smoother?

you still havent filled out your system specs to make this easier for us, what model monitor is it? How is it connected, HDMI or displayport?

Hi there,

Sorry my specs are AOC 27G2 27 144hz using display port.

Btw, it was false alarm anyway, after further testing it turns out that when you change v-sync (which I had switched from default i.e. application controlled to off) and then turn off G-sync, turning off G-sync actually turns V-sync back on in the Nvidia settings so when I thought I was testing with both off I wasn't, though the game I was playing felt 'different' in other words a little more natural to the way I#d normally have played it - hard to explain.

Anyway, when I went back in and did it in the reverse order (G-sync first then V-sync) there was significant screen tearing in the game.

Now the problem with testing is that there are other things that affect my games in small ways also, they are changing Bios to XMP profile for ram, using XMP profile for CPU (in other words using the auto-overlock option on your bios), changing the Power and Sleep options from balanced to performance and vice versa, also changing Nvidia power options from Optimal Power to Maximum Performance. Each of these settings produces a different outcome in terms of how the game plays, even though they are small it's noticeable these things range from small glitches to changes in animation speed to small increases/decreases in response AND strangely AI reactions - some combinations can change how aggressive the AI is but this could be due to missing animations or a delay in processing allowing the AI small advantages in reaction to outcomes.

So when I test something else I have to go through a myriad of combinations which makes things extremely time consuming to pinpoint. I'll do more testing of options and get back. Thanks.

P.S. I'm not sure where you got 60hz from as I stated I went from 120hz to 144hz but if you could explain that would be fantastic as I'm no computer buff, thanks.

 

[Mussels]

Because the way you wrote it was confusing, so i was clarifying

G-sync requires Vsync, always has

I suggest disabling Gsync and forcing Vsync off, and using the nvidia driver option to lock your FPS at 140FPS (while on 144Hz)

See what happens

 

[ThatWeirdInputLag]

Hi there,

Sorry my specs are AOC 27G2 27 144hz using display port.

Btw, it was false alarm anyway, after further testing it turns out that when you change v-sync (which I had switched from default i.e. application controlled to off) and then turn off G-sync, turning off G-sync actually turns V-sync back on in the Nvidia settings so when I thought I was testing with both off I wasn't, though the game I was playing felt 'different' in other words a little more natural to the way I#d normally have played it - hard to explain.

Anyway, when I went back in and did it in the reverse order (G-sync first then V-sync) there was significant screen tearing in the game.

Now the problem with testing is that there are other things that affect my games in small ways also, they are changing Bios to XMP profile for ram, using XMP profile for CPU (in other words using the auto-overlock option on your bios), changing the Power and Sleep options from balanced to performance and vice versa, also changing Nvidia power options from Optimal Power to Maximum Performance. Each of these settings produces a different outcome in terms of how the game plays, even though they are small it's noticeable these things range from small glitches to changes in animation speed to small increases/decreases in response AND strangely AI reactions - some combinations can change how aggressive the AI is but this could be due to missing animations or a delay in processing allowing the AI small advantages in reaction to outcomes.

So when I test something else I have to go through a myriad of combinations which makes things extremely time consuming to pinpoint. I'll do more testing of options and get back. Thanks.

P.S. I'm not sure where you got 60hz from as I stated I went from 120hz to 144hz but if you could explain that would be fantastic as I'm no computer buff, thanks.

Im having flashbacks of all those times that i did something similar that made the game run nice and smooth only for it to go bad again in a day or 2!
i’ll most probably just reset everything back to normal and call it a day lol..

 

[OneMoar]

five pages and over 6 months for a non problem problem can we not ?

 

[fatehasfans]

five pages and over 6 months for a non problem problem can we not ?

That 'non problem problem' is the difference between playing games at a competitive level and not. It's a world of difference, and that's the other issue - that it's so hard to pinpoint. For example browsing and everything else is fine you would think the computer is fine but if you are a gamer and play at a high level these then these small things become monumental, game breaking. being to able to 'flickshot' (instant reaction head-shot) in a first person shooter is the difference between being able to play and not being able to play. It's like being a fine detail artist and someone hands you a broken crayon add to this the cost, I paid a lot of money and expected the smoothest result. Am I wrong to expect this?

 

[Mussels]

That 'non problem problem' is the difference between playing games at a competitive level and not. It's a world of difference, and that's the other issue - that it's so hard to pinpoint. For example browsing and everything else is fine you would think the computer is fine but if you are a gamer and play at a high level these then these small things become monumental, game breaking. being to able to 'flickshot' (instant reaction head-shot) in a first person shooter is the difference between being able to play and not being able to play. It's like being a fine detail artist and someone hands you a broken crayon add to this the cost, I paid a lot of money and expected the smoothest result. Am I wrong to expect this?

Well... maybe, yes.
I'm here on a 5800x with a 3090 and know exactly what i'm doing - and i still get lag spikes, the odd game crash and even the odd screwup (like premium PSU cables literally melting)
Playing Ghost recon: wildlands i vary from 200FPS to 60FPS, and i feel laggy and slow at that 60... yet my friend i'm playing with only has a 60Hz monitor, so he sees that same lag as smooth.
the problem here is we dont know your expectations, nor can we really narrow down the issue here after so long, which is uncommon

 

[deviiiiiiiiii]

I am having the exact same problem as described above by fatehasfans and ThatWeirdInputLag.

@fatehasfans Hello,
You are not alone in this, I have the exact same problem unfortunately. There's always this weird stuttering when looking around with the mouse even if the FPS is higher than my refresh rate or just capped at my refresh rate.
I've tried almost everything that you did, and even more. I've changed my electric socket and added even another grounding line to act for my PC only lol. Problem was still there.
I have changed motherboards, ssd and nvme, cooling solution, repasting, gpu's, Ram sticks, keyboards & mice & headsets "usb and analog", so many bios and OS tweaks its insane, i've been trying to find the solution for the past year and a half. the only thing I have not changed is the CPU.. but more and more i think its really not a cpu issue, its just something with z390 boards. because i went from Aorus Ultra to ROG MAXIMUS HERO XI and they are both high end motherboards that costed me alot of money, and both did not help solving the problem.

My Specs + changes:
- CPU = i9900KS
- Motherboard = Aorus Ultra Z390 --> ROG MAX Hero XI
- Graphics Card = Aorus 2080 Super --> Aorus 2080TI xtreme
- Ram = HyperX Predator 4000cl19 --> Trident Neo 4000cl15
- CPU cooler = Kraken 52 ---> Noctua 15 "something something twin tower black one"
- Storage = SSD --> Nvme.2 Back and forth

What actually made me know that we both have the same problem is that everytime I change something in the bios mainly for the CPU that forces a restart the computer will behave normal and as it should, and the games start acting smoother with way less stutters "still there" but something normal and within reason. ORRRR if i change something in nvidia 3D settings and hit apply.
All things comes to an end "Mostly" when i shut my PC down. I tried to disable fast boot both from windows and bios, but still the same problem always comes back. I'm not sure why I was thinking its electricity even though i've had a PC before that sitting in the same place hooked to the same power sockets and never had this issue with. Even when you described how its hard to try combination key presses on the keyboard and some of them will just not go through I was like daaaym man i know the feeling its suckssss, made me literally go through 4 keyboards man, razer huntsman, ducky one 2 mini, razer huntsman elite 60% "now" and i was done, im like its not the keyboard for sure.

more observations is if you play csgo or any fps for that matter, switching weapons back and forth is just sluggish, and for some reason everytime i alt tab and go back to the game its smooth and responsive for a bit then it goes back to shit..

Hopefully you find a solution, and i'll make sure to update you if i do too.. But for now, i'm done spending more money on this setup, I just can't do it anymore for my own sanity. I'll just wait and probably just buy an entire new setup next year or something.

This description matches perfectly with my own problem and vast list of attempts to fix the issue. I have swapped out every single hardware component in my PC and yet the problem remains. I am completely stumped. What makes it worse is that I stream and play professionally for a living.

 

[SuperTweaker]

More than likely it's your CPU. This is happening all the time whether you're are gaming or just doing mundane tasks, right? I would RMA that CPU if that is indeed the case.

 

[deviiiiiiiiii]

More than likely it's your CPU. This is happening all the time whether you're are gaming or just doing mundane tasks, right? I would RMA that CPU if that is indeed the case.

In my case, I've gone and bought a new CPU and my PC has the same problems, not sure about the other posters.

 

[OneMoar]

start your own thread don't come here and thread jack this one thanks

 

[deviiiiiiiiii]

start your own thread don't come here and thread jack this one thanks

Just chiming in to say I have the same issue and am also seeking answers thanks

 

[agn]

Im seeking for this answer since 2011, since then i spend more than 8k on different pc setups. I suscept to be electricity problem, but the thing is even if i power up pc , monitor and router from just a ups battery the problem is still here so i think it may be some kind of noise that fuck up caps or crystal oscillators and that fuckups timing of theese things and the damage is permanent now the last thing i plan to try in future is changing digital smart meter since it may be strongest source of emi/ rfi noise for analog one aswell as buying new motherboard.

 

[SuperTweaker]

Another consideration. If you HD games installed on your PC and they can play 'offline' just fine, the most logical deduction is your Internet connection - especially if any Internet games' connection is below 20mpbs down and 2mpbs up. (megabits per second). Wireless connections can make playing an online game incredibly glitched with lag.

Good place to start is speedtest.net and return and tell us your Ping/Latency, Download and Uploads speeds.

 

[Staijoscaine]

Hi, I have the same problem, I bought my pc 3 months ago and yet the mouse moves inaccurate and its really annoying cuz I can t play fps games like this.
Did u guys find the problem?