Valve Claims Steam Deck Can Run Entire Steam Library Within Performance Target

[medi01]

That explains. I am doubtful if this can really run games like CyberPunk 2077 at the target resolution though. How about Microsoft Flight Simulator? If these games were part of what they tested and confirmed that it runs at 800p @ 30FPS, I think there will be a lot of caveats, i.e. very low graphic settings or something along the line.

Proton (WINE) is not emulation, it is essentially an alternative implementation of Windows API.
That is why there even are windows native games that run faster on Linux. (although, that happens rarely)
To my knowledge perf is roughly in the same ballpark most of the time.

 

[Legacy-ZA]

This product is intriguing, but I don't think the technology is quite there yet. Definitely better than my PSP or SEGA Game Gear though. lol

 

[InhaleOblivion]

Reserved and looking forward to playing various games on the go. Plus hopefully Steam's Big Picture mode gets this updated UI from the Steam Deck. It hasn't seen an update since they released the Steam Controller.

 

[Valantar]

Reserved and looking forward to playing various games on the go. Plus hopefully Steam's Big Picture mode gets this updated UI from the Steam Deck. It hasn't seen an update since they released the Steam Controller.

They've announced that it will, which should be a good improvement.

This product is intriguing, but I don't think the technology is quite there yet. Definitely better than my PSP or SEGA Game Gear though. lol

Well, the GPU is essentially an unknown at this point. It's still 8 CUs like current APUs, but RDNA2 rather than Vega, which should mean a >50% increase in gaming performance per clock+CU count (assuming no new bottlenecks). That last parenthesis is key though, with the introduction of LPDDR5 being crucial here - the memory subsystem in this should trounce anything seen with a Vega iGPU, so hopefully it'll be up to the task. Assuming the IMC can handle the new memory well and allocation between the iGPU and CPU is smooth, obviously. But even Vega 8 on current APUs is pretty decent for light gaming at 900p or 1080p at medium/low settings in lighter titles - at well above 30fps. (I play Rocket League - obviously not a demanding title - at 70-90fps in 900p on my 4650G HTPC.) Is an assumed 50% performance increase sufficient to transform that into AAA gaming at 800p30? That's difficult to say, but I'm optimistic. It should at the very least be close, and this isn't the machine you get for playing the most graphically intense titles on a huge screen anyhow.

 

[Deleted member 185088]

Me. Install windows and play almost everything windows-wise and million console/arcade games using emulators.
I don't have a computer, only an ultrabook, hell, I can even connect it via usb-c to my dell monitor and charge it while using the monitor as docking station, it's supported!

Of course there is a niche for it, but I don't see it selling millions like the Switch, with games developed optimised for it.

 

[Nordic]

Of course there is a niche for it, but I don't see it selling millions like the Switch, with games developed optimised for it.

The Steam Deck isn't intended to sell at the volume traditional consoles do, nor do they expect developers to optimize for that specific hardware. Valves goal is to demonstrate how far gaming on Linux has come. They actually want others to copy them and make similar devices.

 

[maxfly]

The Steam Deck isn't intended to sell at the volume traditional consoles do, nor do they expect developers to optimize for that specific hardware. Valves goal is to demonstrate how far gaming on Linux has come. They actually want others to copy them and make similar devices.

Thats how they are marketing it? I have no idea what Valve is investing but it must not be much if they are actively encouraging competition.

 

[Deleted member 185088]

The Steam Deck isn't intended to sell at the volume traditional consoles do, nor do they expect developers to optimize for that specific hardware. Valves goal is to demonstrate how far gaming on Linux has come. They actually want others to copy them and make similar devices.

It doesn't seem like it, they don't mention Linux at all, rather it's a PC, portable PC to use their terminology.

 

[qubit]

Frankly, a so-called "performance target" of 30fps is rubbish in this day and age. My smartphone can do better than that. I wouldn't touch it.

 

[Nordic]

Thats how they are marketing it? I have no idea what Valve is investing but it must not be much if they are actively encouraging competition.

In the IGN interview they said that they want others to copy them and make hardware like this.

Microsoft took a similar approach with the Surface. They made the Surface to show other hardware manufacturers what they would like laptops to look like.

Valve is saying that they would like others to make handheld devices like the Steam Deck while demonstrating that they have a game store and OS ready for such a devise. Valve is a game store first and foremost and would like others to make hardware that features their storefront by default.

Frankly, a so-called "performance target" of 30fps is rubbish in this day and age. My smartphone can do better than that. I wouldn't touch it.

I believe that they were saying 30 fps minimum in the worst performing games. Regardless if 30 fps is unacceptable to you, then a handheld device is probably not for you. Fps limiting yourself to 30fps is probably going to be one of the best battery saving features.

 

[qubit]

I believe that they were saying 30 fps minimum in the worst performing games. Regardless if 30 fps is unacceptable to you, then a handheld device is probably not for you. Fps limiting yourself to 30fps is probably going to be one of the best battery saving features.

From my understanding, everything will be capped at 30fps, but I could be wrong.

If they were only slowing it down to save the battery, then they should offer 60fps as an option and let the user decide.

 

[Nordic]

From my understanding, everything will be capped at 30fps, but I could be wrong.

If they were only slowing it down to save the battery, then they should offer 60fps as an option and let the user decide.

By what I have read, it will be no more locked down software wise than your own desktop and they are planning on having a built in fps limiter to save battery. I am certain that you will be able to choose what fps limit you want.

 

[maxfly]

In the IGN interview they said that they want others to copy them and make hardware like this.

Microsoft took a similar approach with the Surface. They made the Surface to show other hardware manufacturers what they would like laptops to look like.

Valve is saying that they would like others to make handheld devices like the Steam Deck while demonstrating that they have a game store and OS ready for such a devise. Valve is a game store first and foremost and would like others to m

In the IGN interview they said that they want others to copy them and make hardware like this.

Microsoft took a similar approach with the Surface. They made the Surface to show other hardware manufacturers what they would like laptops to look like.

Valve is saying that they would like others to make handheld devices like the Steam Deck while demonstrating that they have a game store and OS ready for such a devise. Valve is a game store first and foremost and would like others to make hardware that features their storefront by default.

I believe that they were saying 30 fps minimum in the worst performing games. Regardless if 30 fps is unacceptable to you, then a handheld device is probably not for you. Fps limiting yourself to 30fps is probably going to be one of the best battery saving features.

Ah i see. That makes alot more sense.
Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Durvelle27]

From my understanding, everything will be capped at 30fps, but I could be wrong.

If they were only slowing it down to save the battery, then they should offer 60fps as an option and let the user decide.

Except they never stated that. The state the target was 30 FPS as it gives better battery life but it can do 60FPS if you don't mind the battery drop. They stated at 60FPS the battery life is only 2-4hrs

 

[Valantar]

From my understanding, everything will be capped at 30fps, but I could be wrong.

If they were only slowing it down to save the battery, then they should offer 60fps as an option and let the user decide.

As stated above that is wrong, but it also makes no sense. Why would they do this? Why would they artificially handicap performance in titles where it can deliver more? I doubt they'd want to cripple games like DOTA2 on this, for example. Or any other title this can run above 30fps - which is bound to be many (I'd expect 80-100 fps at 800p in Rocket League, for example, if my 900p/1080p results from my 4650G are anything to go by). They might implement some easily accessible 30fps global framerate lock as a battery saving feature, but there's no way whatsoever they would make that mandatory in any scenario.

 

[The red spirit]

As are laptops. And this. Outside of storage, that is, for all of the above.

Some laptops have upgradable RAM, storage, CPU, GPU, optical drive, screen, wireless card. That's not too bad.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

From my understanding, everything will be capped at 30fps, but I could be wrong.

If they were only slowing it down to save the battery, then they should offer 60fps as an option and let the user decide.

From my understanding and something I can't pinpoint to show but did hear the 30fps is the base level of performance they expect for Any game and it isn't capped.

I definitely heard or saw that somewhere as a valve reply to a question but I'm admittedly vague on where I heard that.

 

[Valantar]

Some laptops have upgradable RAM, storage, CPU, GPU, optical drive, screen, wireless card. That's not too bad.

Storage? Sure, nearly all. RAM? Many, true, though nothing even remotely close to this level of portability. At 2x the weight? sure. But you'll at best get DDR4-3200 that way. Optical drive? Which laptops from the past five years even have those? Screen? Uh ... sure. I guess on paper at least. Though it's typically incredibly invasive, and the number of screens that fit any given laptop are extremely limited. CPU? Not a chance, unless it's a DTR using desktop chips. Laptop chips haven't been socketed since ... Ivy Bridge? GPU? Again, no. MXM GPUs are essentially impossible to buy, are ridiculously expensive when available at all, and ever fewer laptops actually fit them (not to mention the 'flexible' implementations of the standard for high-end GPUs meaning most only fit laptops from the brand that made them).

The point being: this isn't upgradeable. The vast majority of laptops, including most gaming laptops, are non-upgradeable in terms of performance. Consoles are non-upgradeable. Thus, upgradeability isn't an argument in any direction regarding this, no matter what was intended.

From my understanding, everything will be capped at 30fps, but I could be wrong.

If they were only slowing it down to save the battery, then they should offer 60fps as an option and let the user decide.

They've clarified what was intended by that "performance target" thing here. Essentially, 30fps is treated as a minimum of what is considered playable, with more being the norm and desired. There is an optional 30fps framerate lock for improving battery life.

 

[The red spirit]

Storage? Sure, nearly all. RAM? Many, true, though nothing even remotely close to this level of portability. At 2x the weight? sure. But you'll at best get DDR4-3200 that way. Optical drive? Which laptops from the past five years even have those? Screen? Uh ... sure. I guess on paper at least. Though it's typically incredibly invasive, and the number of screens that fit any given laptop are extremely limited. CPU? Not a chance, unless it's a DTR using desktop chips. Laptop chips haven't been socketed since ... Ivy Bridge? GPU? Again, no. MXM GPUs are essentially impossible to buy, are ridiculously expensive when available at all, and ever fewer laptops actually fit them (not to mention the 'flexible' implementations of the standard for high-end GPUs meaning most only fit laptops from the brand that made them).

The point being: this isn't upgradeable. The vast majority of laptops, including most gaming laptops, are non-upgradeable in terms of performance. Consoles are non-upgradeable. Thus, upgradeability isn't an argument in any direction regarding this, no matter what was intended

I had HP DV6000 hand me down. It had swappable CPU, upgradable RAM, upgradable storage, I could swap screen to basically any other screen as they all use same connector and many are same diameter. Optical drive is likely swappable too, it used slim ODD format. Laptops from that same era also often had mini PCIe graphics cards and as long as you matched TDP, you could upgrade to newer one. And I upgraded, HDD to SSD, single core Sempron to Turion X2 dual core, 512 MB RAM to 4GB RAM. Everything worked fine and DV6000 was more or less bottom of the barrel laptop in 2006. Fully upgradable laptops existed for a very long time. Even in 2012, you could buy base Pentium P6200 laptop and upgrade nearly everything for cheap. Sure those laptops are less common now, but I'm pretty sure that enterprise laptops are still like that. And the irony is that upgraded laptop would still be quite fast today and could beat quite bit of new laptops. I remember that Alienwares were a great platforms, you could put high power components in them and they wouldn't overheat. As for prices, maybe on eBay they are expensive, but local deals are far more reasonable. I remember, Turion X2 was 15 Euros. Not bad for what was basically Core 2 Duo.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

I had HP DV6000 hand me down. It had swappable CPU, upgradable RAM, upgradable storage, I could swap screen to basically any other screen as they all use same connector and many are same diameter. Optical drive is likely swappable too, it used slim ODD format. Laptops from that same era also often had mini PCIe graphics cards and as long as you matched TDP, you could upgrade to newer one. And I upgraded, HDD to SSD, single core Sempron to Turion X2 dual core, 512 MB RAM to 4GB RAM. Everything worked fine and DV6000 was more or less bottom of the barrel laptop in 2006. Fully upgradable laptops existed for a very long time. Even in 2012, you could buy base Pentium P6200 laptop and upgrade nearly everything for cheap. Sure those laptops are less common now, but I'm pretty sure that enterprise laptops are still like that. And the irony is that upgraded laptop would still be quite fast today and could beat quite bit of new laptops. I remember that Alienwares were a great platforms, you could put high power components in them and they wouldn't overheat. As for prices, maybe on eBay they are expensive, but local deals are far more reasonable. I remember, Turion X2 was 15 Euros. Not bad for what was basically Core 2 Duo.

I don't think it viable to compare a Mobile pc gaming device meant for handheld portable gaming to a laptop that's for more general pc use.
Who buys Even a laptop these days and expects to be able to upgrade more than memory and storage besides the corporate or mega rich, no one sensible.
Laptops like most consumer goods and steam deck are disposable user device's intended to have a shelf life then be obsolete and Replaced.

This isn't new , OEM's made this switch a decade ago or more, they are not trying to make a device that's upgradable ,very few are, very few.

So this tangential argument against steam deck is at best miss placed, try another angle.

Note all you just mentioned were likely less powerful Now in games and in general ancient.

No portable pc device exists or is planned that beats this in performance per dollar even win max 3 priced at 900$ + will be trounced by this , simple.

 

[The red spirit]

I don't think it viable to compare a Mobile pc gaming device meant for handheld portable gaming to a laptop that's for more general pc use.
Who buys Even a laptop these days and expects to be able to upgrade more than memory and storage besides the corporate or mega rich, no one sensible.
Laptops like most consumer goods and steam deck are disposable user device's intended to have a shelf life then be obsolete and Replaced.

This isn't new , OEM's made this switch a decade ago or more, they are not trying to make a device that's upgradable ,very few are, very few.

So this tangential argument against steam deck is at best miss placed, try another angle.

Note all you just mentioned were likely less powerful Now in games and in general ancient.

No portable pc device exists or is planned that beats this in performance per dollar even win max 3 priced at 900$ + will be trounced by this , simple.

Laptops like DV6000 weren't really disposable. Say, you bought base model in 2006, used until 2012. Upgraded, CPU, RAM, storage and rand Windows 8.1 (this OS still had all drivers for it) until support ended. It will end in 2023. If it is used for light work, it is adequate for that. That's 17 years of very cheap computing. Assuming that you are okay with using it as your main machine and your computing needs aren't very high, that's a hella lot of value. Right now, 2012 Pentium P6200 laptop, could be upgraded to i7, 16GB RAM and 1TB SSD. That's not weak and will last for quite a while. I would expect no less than 12 years out of such machine, if it doesn't break down. Such laptop was around 400 Euros new. Later you upgrade it for 300-400 Euros. That's 800 Euros for 12 years of really nice computing. Cost per year of such machine is 66.(6) Euros. Power consumption is quite low of laptops, so likely no more than incandescent bulb, which is 62 watts. Owning such laptop for all those years is actually cheaper than owning desktop, due to similar component price, but much lower power consumption. That's cheap and not shabby.

Meanwhile Deck is already quite limited and as gaming machine it won't usable for more than 3 years. As general purpose PC it doesn't really work, but if somehow someone perseveres, it can last. But since nothing apart storage is upgradable, it will be in dumpster (sorry, recycling center, don't put electronics in dumpster) a lot sooner than what was once a cheap laptop. Dumping device and searching for new one is quite more expensive, as Deck in non e-waste spec is quite expensive. Anyway, I didn't write my previous comment to write about Deck again, I was just trying to say that laptops can be highly upgradable and still cheap if they are designed that way. That was good for consumer and likely helped to reduce e-waste. Modern laptops are made a lot worse, nearly everything is soldered, thermals are atrocious, they are loud, they are also brittle and despite efficiency advancements, battery life didn't meaningfully change, because they became smaller. Modern laptops are the best example of shoddy engineering, no foresight and very obvious planned obsolescence in order to save some bucks and generate more cash from higher replacement rate, which is artificially inflated. In modern electronics, there simply aren't more infuriating devices than laptops. Thankfully, I don't have a reason to own laptop and I really don't want to have one.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Laptops like DV6000 weren't really disposable. Say, you bought base model in 2006, used until 2012. Upgraded, CPU, RAM, storage and rand Windows 8.1 (this OS still had all drivers for it) until support ended. It will end in 2023. If it is used for light work, it is adequate for that. That's 17 years of very cheap computing. Assuming that you are okay with using it as your main machine and your computing needs aren't very high, that's a hella lot of value. Right now, 2012 Pentium P6200 laptop, could be upgraded to i7, 16GB RAM and 1TB SSD. That's not weak and will last for quite a while. I would expect no less than 12 years out of such machine, if it doesn't break down. Such laptop was around 400 Euros new. Later you upgrade it for 300-400 Euros. That's 800 Euros for 12 years of really nice computing. Cost per year of such machine is 66.(6) Euros. Power consumption is quite low of laptops, so likely no more than incandescent bulb, which is 62 watts. Owning such laptop for all those years is actually cheaper than owning desktop, due to similar component price, but much lower power consumption. That's cheap and not shabby.

Meanwhile Deck is already quite limited and as gaming machine it won't usable for more than 3 years. As general purpose PC it doesn't really work, but if somehow someone perseveres, it can last. But since nothing apart storage is upgradable, it will be in dumpster (sorry, recycling center, don't put electronics in dumpster) a lot sooner than what was once a cheap laptop. Dumping device and searching for new one is quite more expensive, as Deck in non e-waste spec is quite expensive. Anyway, I didn't write my previous comment to write about Deck again, I was just trying to say that laptops can be highly upgradable and still cheap if they are designed that way. That was good for consumer and likely helped to reduce e-waste. Modern laptops are made a lot worse, nearly everything is soldered, thermals are atrocious, they are loud, they are also brittle and despite efficiency advancements, battery life didn't meaningfully change, because they became smaller. Modern laptops are the best example of shoddy engineering, no foresight and very obvious planned obsolescence in order to save some bucks and generate more cash from higher replacement rate, which is artificially inflated. In modern electronics, there simply aren't more infuriating devices than laptops. Thankfully, I don't have a reason to own laptop and I really don't want to have one.

As I said over a decade ago we went from built to last to built for the bin, again you mentioned a laptop yes Laptop not portable gaming device and went with 2006-2012 proving me right.
Find an upgradable laptop out now for 700£ and you may have a point otherwise this argument is pointless.

And if you do please also point out how the f#@£ a laptop is relevant to a handheld gaming device.

As for your other opinionated points , I'll await reviews before arguing how long this would be a viable gaming option.

Which I think irrelevant, I doubt valve or any buyer expects 5-10 years out of it?!.

I'm buying and I doubt I'll be using it in 2030, shits given = 0 on that point.

 

[The red spirit]

As I said over a decade ago we went from built to last to built for the bin, again you mentioned a laptop yes Laptop not portable gaming device and went with 2006-2012 proving me right.
Find an upgradable laptop out now for 700£ and you may have a point otherwise this argument is pointless.

I don't know, but maybe I could find some. I wonder if Clevo is still in business today.

Edit:
Clevo is in business and they have 800 pound laptop with... GTX 1060. And it's darn upgradable too. GTX 1060 vs 8 CU RDNA 2 is no contest. Turns out you can still find value. And it has 1440p 120 Hz display, 512GB SSD. Unfortunately 8 GB single stick RAM, but it's upgradable and configurable for more. It essentially costs as much as top config Deck. Things don't look so good for Deck. Link:

CLEVO PA70EP6 | QHD 120Hz | INTEL CORE i5-8300H | NVIDIA GTX 1060 | METAL CHASSIS

CLEVO PA70EP6 with 8th generation Intel Core i5-8300H Coffee Lake Mobile processor and NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 graphics card and QHD 120Hz…

clevo-computer.com

And if you do please also point out how the f#@£ a laptop is relevant to a handheld gaming device.

I posted purely about laptops, but if you want gaming, then I'm pretty sure that they can put more graphics power into laptop for same price rather than in Deck. AMD still puts Vega iGPUs there and big Vegas (11 CU ones). Once RDNA 2 iGPUs roll out, laptops will beat Deck for price/performance. Not to mention, that you may even get dedicated graphics (Let's say GTX 1650 m or 1050 Ti m) in laptop sometimes, which are already faster than Deck.

As for your other opinionated points , I'll await reviews before arguing how long this would be a viable gaming option.

Which I think irrelevant, I doubt valve or any buyer expects 5-10 years out of it?!.

I'm buying and I doubt I'll be using it in 2030, shits given = 0 on that point.

Post was about laptops and their longevity, not about gaming capabilities of them.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

I don't know, but maybe I could find some. I wonder if Clevo is still in business today.


I posted purely about laptops, but if you want gaming, then I'm pretty sure that they can put more graphics power into laptop for same price rather than in Deck. AMD still puts Vega iGPUs there and big Vegas (11 CU ones). Once RDNA 2 iGPUs roll out, laptops will beat Deck for price/performance. Not to mention, that you may even get dedicated graphics (Let's say GTX 1650 m or 1050 Ti m) in laptop sometimes, which are already faster than Deck.


Post was about laptops and their longevity, not about gaming capabilities of them.

So crack on, show me a laptop that's sub 700£ and upgradable?!.
Edit, a Clevo with replaceable shit ram and adequate ssd replaceability = upgradeable,, yet next generation LPddr5 memory anyway and replaceable ssd isn't upgradable?! It's also 100£ more expensive , massive, probably not much more GPU grunt and for gaming totally balls ergonomics, but yeh , no.

A laptop is not this though is it, a laptop is not an ultra portable gaming device, it's a general purpose computer, this isn't that, I own a decent gaming laptop, yet this will be used as much as that, why, because it's significantly more Portable and Will do what I require . ..

my opinion differs from yours but I admit only a review will enlighten us to reality verses circular opinion spouting , meanwhile you think you will trump my opinion spouting what I think is irrelevant nonsense about upgrading and either future tech that's not out yet or a laptop from 2012?!! With no facts just opinion, your wasting mine and others time here going round in circles with the same stuff.

Show a better handheld portable gaming pc for the same money or leave it out pal, laptops are not this, at all and ARE irrelevant, anyone wanting this already decided against a laptop sooo.

 

[Valantar]

I had HP DV6000 hand me down. It had swappable CPU, upgradable RAM, upgradable storage, I could swap screen to basically any other screen as they all use same connector and many are same diameter. Optical drive is likely swappable too, it used slim ODD format. Laptops from that same era also often had mini PCIe graphics cards and as long as you matched TDP, you could upgrade to newer one. And I upgraded, HDD to SSD, single core Sempron to Turion X2 dual core, 512 MB RAM to 4GB RAM. Everything worked fine and DV6000 was more or less bottom of the barrel laptop in 2006. Fully upgradable laptops existed for a very long time. Even in 2012, you could buy base Pentium P6200 laptop and upgrade nearly everything for cheap. Sure those laptops are less common now, but I'm pretty sure that enterprise laptops are still like that. And the irony is that upgraded laptop would still be quite fast today and could beat quite bit of new laptops. I remember that Alienwares were a great platforms, you could put high power components in them and they wouldn't overheat. As for prices, maybe on eBay they are expensive, but local deals are far more reasonable. I remember, Turion X2 was 15 Euros. Not bad for what was basically Core 2 Duo.

Laptops like DV6000 weren't really disposable. Say, you bought base model in 2006, used until 2012. Upgraded, CPU, RAM, storage and rand Windows 8.1 (this OS still had all drivers for it) until support ended. It will end in 2023. If it is used for light work, it is adequate for that. That's 17 years of very cheap computing. Assuming that you are okay with using it as your main machine and your computing needs aren't very high, that's a hella lot of value. Right now, 2012 Pentium P6200 laptop, could be upgraded to i7, 16GB RAM and 1TB SSD. That's not weak and will last for quite a while. I would expect no less than 12 years out of such machine, if it doesn't break down. Such laptop was around 400 Euros new. Later you upgrade it for 300-400 Euros. That's 800 Euros for 12 years of really nice computing. Cost per year of such machine is 66.(6) Euros. Power consumption is quite low of laptops, so likely no more than incandescent bulb, which is 62 watts. Owning such laptop for all those years is actually cheaper than owning desktop, due to similar component price, but much lower power consumption. That's cheap and not shabby.

Meanwhile Deck is already quite limited and as gaming machine it won't usable for more than 3 years. As general purpose PC it doesn't really work, but if somehow someone perseveres, it can last. But since nothing apart storage is upgradable, it will be in dumpster (sorry, recycling center, don't put electronics in dumpster) a lot sooner than what was once a cheap laptop. Dumping device and searching for new one is quite more expensive, as Deck in non e-waste spec is quite expensive. Anyway, I didn't write my previous comment to write about Deck again, I was just trying to say that laptops can be highly upgradable and still cheap if they are designed that way. That was good for consumer and likely helped to reduce e-waste. Modern laptops are made a lot worse, nearly everything is soldered, thermals are atrocious, they are loud, they are also brittle and despite efficiency advancements, battery life didn't meaningfully change, because they became smaller. Modern laptops are the best example of shoddy engineering, no foresight and very obvious planned obsolescence in order to save some bucks and generate more cash from higher replacement rate, which is artificially inflated. In modern electronics, there simply aren't more infuriating devices than laptops. Thankfully, I don't have a reason to own laptop and I really don't want to have one.

I don't know, but maybe I could find some. I wonder if Clevo is still in business today.

Edit:
Clevo is in business and they have 800 pound laptop with... GTX 1060. And it's darn upgradable too. GTX 1060 vs 8 CU RDNA 2 is no contest. Turns out you can still find value. And it has 1440p 120 Hz display, 512GB SSD. Unfortunately 8 GB single stick RAM, but it's upgradable and configurable for more. It essentially costs as much as top config Deck. Things don't look so good for Deck. Link:

CLEVO PA70EP6 | QHD 120Hz | INTEL CORE i5-8300H | NVIDIA GTX 1060 | METAL CHASSIS

CLEVO PA70EP6 with 8th generation Intel Core i5-8300H Coffee Lake Mobile processor and NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 graphics card and QHD 120Hz…

clevo-computer.com

I posted purely about laptops, but if you want gaming, then I'm pretty sure that they can put more graphics power into laptop for same price rather than in Deck. AMD still puts Vega iGPUs there and big Vegas (11 CU ones). Once RDNA 2 iGPUs roll out, laptops will beat Deck for price/performance. Not to mention, that you may even get dedicated graphics (Let's say GTX 1650 m or 1050 Ti m) in laptop sometimes, which are already faster than Deck.


Post was about laptops and their longevity, not about gaming capabilities of them.

... where to start? Sigh.

Let's see:

• Laptops today are not made like laptops in 2006 or 2012. As I said, there are no socketed mobile CPUs. Zero. Intel doesn't make any, AMD doesn't make any. Period. They're all soldered. Unless you're buying a giant DTR """laptop""" using desktop CPUs, you're not getting the option to upgrade your CPU. Period. Enterprise/commercial laptops are exactly the same.
• Given that the storage in the Steam Deck is upgradeable (you'll likely find higher capacity m.2 2230 drives in the future, and faster microSD cards too), that point is moot.
• Your estimation of the longevity of the Steam Deck is ... odd. If it can play a huge library of games now, it will be able to play the same games or any games equally demanding for as long as the device works. That is bound to be more than three years. Obviously it won't be playing AAA games five or ten years from now, but neither will any gaming laptop at any quality setting that the owner will deem good enough considering its price and specs. Or desktop GPUs, really. There's no way to future proof against increasing GPU demands in future games.
• Given how much better the build quality of most devices is these days (those 2006 HPs you mentioned were garbage - I know, I used to sell them, and I've seen too many cracked and broken ones to count) I'd be surprised if this didn't last several decades if treated well. The battery will obviously wear out, and you'd need to clean the fan, but that's par for the course for any laptop.
• An argument for increased repairability and upgradeability in laptops in general is not especially applicable towards this device in particular. Why? Because unlike the Apples, Dells and others of the world, this actually does something useful with its density. I really wish all laptops were as upgradeable as the Framework laptop, but that's not the world we live in, at least not yet. But that's not an argument against the usefulness, performance or longevity of the Steam Deck in particular, but a critique of the industry overall.
• Those upgradeable €400 laptops you're speaking of - what was the gaming experience like? Yeah, no, even at their time they were nowhere close to the Steam Deck's purported performance today.
• No, laptops have never used "mini PCIe" GPUs. They have used MXM ones, but most have had the GPU integrated onto the motherboard. And MXM GPUs have never been freely sold on the open market, and upgradeability has been essentially a pipe dream. A few manufacturers have sold GPU upgrades for their laptops for a few years, but it's been a while since I've seen that happen, and they were inevitably incredibly expensive.
• So you're actually positing a 3 kilogram 17.3" laptop as a relevant alternative to a 600g handheld? I mean, it's clear that you don't understand the use case for a handheld, but come on! On top of that, that's a laptop with a 5-year-old GPU, a 3-year-old CPU (which is likely slower than the 4c8t Zen2 chip in the Steam Deck even at 15W vs. 35W), half the memory at a much slower speed, etc... like, what are you trying to say here? Yes, you can get good value in a bigger laptop if a bigger laptop is what you want. But it won't be a tiny, use-anywhere handheld, nor will it sip power, fit easily in your hands, etc. Different types of products have different use cases.
• Saying "the post was about laptops and their longevity, not about their gaming capabilities" in a thread that is about a gaming device is .... very, very odd. I mean, if you want a laptop and not a handheld gaming PC, go buy a laptop. Is anyone stopping you? Is the existence of the Steam Deck somehow problematic for people who just want a day-to-day laptop? Of course not. This whole "laptop longevity" discussion is a massive side track with little to no relevance to this topic.