ASUS Launches ROG Crosshair VIII Extreme Motherboard

[asdkj1740]

Sorry, what?
You make no sense at all, this is an AMD X570 board, what does that have to do with an Intel Z490 board?

I hope you're aware that ASMedia isn't the only company making PCIe bridge chips, in fact, they were late to the game.
And you don't need to inform me of their product range, I'm well aware of it and I have both written about their products and incorporated their chips into a product.

In fact, what you're calling a controller is a bridge/splitter, not a controller.
You might want to consider some of their more up to date parts as well, that have more lanes.
Such as this for example.

ASM2812I -PCIe Gen3 Packet Switching Chips，12 Lane / 6 Port|ASMedia Technology Inc.

PCIe Gen3 Packet Switching Chips, 12 Lane, 6 Port PCI Express Switch, Packet Switching Chip for industrial grade environment,PCIe Gen3x4 bandwidth

www.asmedia.com.tw

asmedia calls asm1061 as pcie to sata controller on its product page, i just follow that.
but when you google asm2182 + asus(or msi or whatever), the results are ...
on z490 if i remember it correctly only biostar uses asm2806.

back to this x570, if those m.2 are really gen3x4, maybe some usb to nvme "BRIDGE" (again, named by asmedia on for example asm2362) is used.
but asus bianbao said they are all gen4 slots on this x570 extreme.

i don't really care whether nxp / ti / diodes have designed such ic or not, in fact mobo vendors 99% wont use them, just like the poor 10g usb hub/controller/bridge whatever.

ps. intel z590 has 24 pcie lane natively, while x570 has 16 only, but even that on z590 we only see 5*m.2 mobo like asus extreme, just one.
given lots of high end z490's 3*m.2 slots are provided by the chipset, we should have seen max 6*m.2 on z590 (3 by cpu and 3 by chipset), but in fact, no such thing.

 

[TheLostSwede]

asmedia calls asm1061 as pcie to sata controller on its product page, i just follow that.
but when you google asm2182 + asus(or msi or whatever), the results are ...
on z490 if i remember it correctly only biostar uses asm2806.

back to this x570, if those m.2 are really gen3x4, maybe some usb to nvme "BRIDGE" (again, named by asmedia on for example asm2362) is used.

i don't really care whether nxp / ti / diodes have designed such ic or not, in fact mobo vendors 99% wont use them, just like poor 10g usb hub/controller/bridge whatever.

Dude, you're mixing apples and oranges now.
Yes, that is a SATA controller, but a bridge chip is something entirely different in this case.

It was an example
Some of their advanced parts have been used in motherboards, I just can't remember the models of the top of my head.

No, no USB to NVMe bridge, that would be insane, it would be slow as anything and no motherboard maker would incorporate that into this kind of a board. Why would they not simply split four PCIe 4.0 to eight PCIe 3.0 lanes? It makes perfect sense, as both slots would operate at full speed.

If you don't care, why did you even get involved in the discussion and add a bunch of confusing suggestions?
Also, you forgot about Microchip...

Plenty of motherboard have USB hubs these days, especially the ones with cheaper chipsets that don't provide enough PCIe lanes.

At the end of the day, we won't really know how Asus has done things, until they release the manual which will hopefully contain a block diagram.

 

[Ruru]

Hi,
Tuf isn't as cool as sabertooth
My x99 sabertooth asus with broadwell-e bios did kill quite a few haswell-e sabertooths mine is the only one in original existence from 2015

Though Sabertooths were TUF series. I had a Z87 one back in the day and it was awesome.

 

[asdkj1740]

Dude, you're mixing apples and oranges now.
Yes, that is a SATA controller, but a bridge chip is something entirely different in this case.

It was an example
Some of their advanced parts have been used in motherboards, I just can't remember the models of the top of my head.

No, no USB to NVMe bridge, that would be insane, it would be slow as anything and no motherboard maker would incorporate that into this kind of a board. Why would they not simply split four PCIe 4.0 to eight PCIe 3.0 lanes? It makes perfect sense, as both slots would operate at full speed.

If you don't care, why did you even get involved in the discussion and add a bunch of confusing suggestions?
Also, you forgot about Microchip...

Plenty of motherboard have USB hubs these days, especially the ones with cheaper chipsets that don't provide enough PCIe lanes.

At the end of the day, we won't really know how Asus has done things, until they release the manual which will hopefully contain a block diagram.

i understand what you said/suggest is truely a bridge, and what i am trying to say is considering what we have seen in the past, forget about that.

the truth is a 1gbps lan ic like i219 or i211at, on b450 it takes chipset's gen2x1, on z490 it takes gen3x1, on x570 it takes gen4x1.

what matters is x1, not gen234567, unless the ic you said (gen4x4=gen3x8) is eventually here and mobo vendors are really willing to widely use them on the whole linup.
and what we are really seeing is finally some 10gbps lan ic can now take x1 rather than x2, just like the 10gbps lan on this asus extreme x570. these are the closet thing we can hope for and it saves the precious and limited pcie lane's allocation.

"split four PCIe 4.0 to eight PCIe 3.0 lanes"
first, i think it needs "ic" to do that, no matter what the ic is called/which type is that.
and again, yeah, i was thinking the same before the first gen x570 was out.
and then when x570 was out, i saw no such thing at all, and i checked back whether there was gen3x2=gen2x4 chips on previous generation. i see asm1184e sometime used on asrock mobo only. and asm1184e is still not gen3x1=gen2x2 if i understand the product page correctly.
if the split you said is a easy job, then we should never ever encountered different devices sharing lanes. how expensive is a 1gbps lan or wifi consume gen4"x1". why intel uses one hsio lane to provide 5gbps usb at the same time which can also be used as pcie3.0x1 or 10gbps usb, namely why not 2*5gbps usb or 1*10gbps usbon the same hsio lane. easy costless split?


btw, i saw the internal asus m13e block diagram, and i pretty sure the version i saw is wrong.
the fact is nothing is "wrong" when mobo vendors got typo. they got their manual and product pages wrong all the time. i mean the spec/typo, not some vrm phase count things.

 

[TheLostSwede]

i understand what you said/suggest is truely a bridge, and what i am trying to say is considering what we have seen in the past, forget about that.

the truth is a 1gbps lan ic like i219 or i211at, on b450 it takes chipset's gen2x1, on z490 it takes gen3x1, on x570 it takes gen4x1.

what matters is x1, not gen234567, unless the ic you said (gen4x4=gen3x8) is eventually here and mobo vendors are really willing to widely use them on the whole linup.
and what we are really seeing is finally some 10gbps lan ic can now take x1 rather than x2, just like the 10gbps lan on this asus extreme x570. these are the closet thing we can hope for and it saves the precious and limited pcie lane's allocation.

"split four PCIe 4.0 to eight PCIe 3.0 lanes"
first, i think it needs "ic" to do that, no matter what the ic is called/which type is that.
and again, yeah, i was thinking the same before the first gen x570 was out.
and then when x570 was out, i saw no such thing at all, and i checked back whether there was gen3x2=gen2x4 chips on previous generation. i see asm1184e sometime used on asrock mobo only. and asm1184e is still not gen3x1=gen2x2 if i understand the product page correctly.
if the split you said is a easy job, then we should never ever encountered different devices sharing lanes. how expensive is a 1gbps lan or wifi consume gen4"x1". why intel use one hsio lane to provide 5gbps usb at the same time which can also be used as pcie3.0x1 or 10gbps usb.

Yes, in theory, it is that easy.
The issues is... Cost.
PCIe bridges/switches are not cheap, in fact, when PLX Technology was bought by Avago (now Broadcom), priced tripled or quadrupled almost over night.
It's very possible they're going x4 PCIe 3.0 to x8 PCIe 3.0, which would mean a loss of performance under heavy use of both SSDs at the same time.
This would allow for one of ASMedia's 12-lane products to work, which would reduce cost somewhat.
It's also possible they're using a more advanced switch that is being used for more peripherals than just the M.2 slots.
As I haven't seen the board block diagram, I really can't say and Asus has as yet to upload the manual.

Intel's HSIO is entirely different, since that's inside their chipset and they have decided how to mix and match things. Their HSIO is most likely a variant of SERDES with an internal MUX.
Many different processors/SoCs rely on muxed SERDES lanes that operate at different speeds so they can offer a wide range of I/O options for their customers, while keeping the pin-count of the physical chip down to keep costs and chip size reasonable. The obvious downside here is that you can't use all the interfaces available at the same time, much as we've seen with M.2 vs SATA ports on most modern motherboards, since they tend to share chipset I/O lanes.
I'm not sure which part of this is so hard to comprehend.

Unless you take bandwidth from the x16 lanes for the GPU, it's not possible to add more than four M.2 lanes to an X570 board. This would also rule out Thunderbolt, which the board in question has. You ought to be able to do basic maths, no?

Also, MSI has put the PCIe 2.0 ASM1182 on their MEG X570 Godlike board, as they ran out of PCIe lanes for things like extra SATA and USB ports.

I'm still not sure what your point is though.

 

[asdkj1740]

the basic math like "gen4x4=gen3x8" is easy to do for everyone but maybe i am the one who cant really understand the point of doing such math in the sense that how this comprehension help in understanding mobo pcie lanes allocation/block diagram or helping general users to choose the suitable mobo for them.
i wont tell them hey simply got some magic cards then plug it to the pcie4.0x4 m.2 slot then gen3x8 would then suddenly pop up, the maths suggests/proves that, not my fault if it doesn't work out.

chipset provides different io devices and what is important to understand is not every device requires the same speed/bandwidth/ same amount of pcie lane.
by doing your basic math it is easy to yell at mobo vendors why still got gen4x1 for 1gbps wifi which definitely contributes to the problem of m.2 vs sata (because of running out of pcie lanes).
if these kinds of stuff got the magic ic you said to handle, sata/usb 0.5g/usb 5g/wifi/lan would not consume gen3x1 or gen4x1 each.
chipsets are a given factor to mobo vendors, what is locked inside wont be able to change by mobo vendors.
to an atx size mobo with two sides of pcb, signal integrity is what they care, not chip size. msi is still struggled to use usb redriver ic for 5gbps ports which is very rare to see these days.
lanes are simply lanes, 1*sata or 1*pcie x1, both amd and intel got the same "design" for mobo vendors to choose.
why intel/amd got lots of lanes specified for usb or sata or lan only but not pcie lane? lmao, i think amd/intel knows their partners so well (except things like mini pc).
doing the math again, is it make sense to have such trade off between gen4x1 and one 6gbps sata. sadly big YouTubers only aim at intel and nvidia.
x570 gen4 bahbahbah, but gen2 asm1182e.

to your first reply to mine, yes i was wrong about using the word "CANT BE".
i wont be surprised to see mobo vendors lock the pcie gen4 down to gen3. msi has such design (on z590 and some b550 iirc) to deal with the gen3 riser card posting problem already, not to mention the b450 gen4 controversy.
but by doing the simple maths then say it is possible to have three gen4x4 m.2 (two by chipset and one by cpu) plus turning gen4x4 to gen3x8 to provide two gen3x4 m.2, and still got gen4x4 left for tb4? of course it is possible. it is also possible to use usb to handle the rest like sata and lan and wifi too. my apology to my poor maths and the reckless "cant be".

btw
asus and asrock are very unlikely to provide block diagram on the public manual these days, you should ask for review guide they usually put it in there if you wanted to see it.
i will never simply check the block diagram or manual or product page then believe what they say without seeing every ic on the pcb.
gl850 and 6 (downstream) usb 2.0 ports, be my guest.


anyway,
"MSI also used PCIe 3.0 redrivers on some of their boards to force some lanes to be slower and to reduce cost, so again, it can be done."
which model??

 

[TheLostSwede]

the basic math like "gen4x4=gen3x8" is easy to do for everyone but maybe i am the one who cant really understand the point of doing such math in the sense that how this comprehension help in understanding mobo pcie lanes allocation/block diagram or helping general users to choose the suitable mobo for them.
i wont tell them hey simply got some magic cards then plug it to the pcie4.0x4 m.2 slot then gen3x8 would then suddenly pop up, the maths suggests/proves that, not my fault if it doesn't work out.

chipset provides different io devices and what is important to understand is not every device requires the same speed/bandwidth/ same amount of pcie lane.
by doing your basic math it is easy to yell at mobo vendors why still got gen4x1 for 1gbps wifi which definitely contributes to the problem of m.2 vs sata (because of running out of pcie lanes).
if these kinds of stuff got the magic ic you said to handle, sata/usb 0.5g/usb 5g/wifi/lan would not consume gen3x1 or gen4x1 each.
chipsets are a given factor to mobo vendors, what is locked inside wont be able to change by mobo vendors.
to an atx size mobo with two sides of pcb, signal integrity is what they care, not chip size. msi is still struggled to use usb redriver ic for 5gbps ports which is very rare to see these days.
lanes are simply lanes, 1*sata or 1*pcie x1, both amd and intel got the same "design" for mobo vendors to choose.
why intel/amd got lots of lanes specified for usb or sata or lan only but not pcie lane? lmao, i think amd/intel knows their partners so well (except things like mini pc).
doing the math again, is it make sense to have such trade off between gen4x1 and one 6gbps sata. sadly big YouTubers only aim at intel and nvidia.
x570 gen4 bahbahbah, but gen2 asm1182e.

to your first reply to mine, yes i was wrong about using the word "CANT BE".
i wont be surprised to see mobo vendors lock the pcie gen4 down to gen3. msi has such design (on z590 and some b550 iirc) to deal with the gen3 riser card posting problem already, not to mention the b450 gen4 controversy.
but by doing the simple maths then say it is possible to have three gen4x4 m.2 (two by chipset and one by cpu) plus turning gen4x4 to gen3x8 to provide two gen3x4 m.2, and still got gen4x4 left for tb4? of course it is possible. it is also possible to use usb to handle the rest like sata and lan and wifi too. my apology to my poor maths and the reckless "cant be".

btw
asus and asrock are very unlikely to provide block diagram on the public manual these days, you should ask for review guide they usually put it in there if you wanted to see it.
i will never simply check the block diagram or manual or product page then believe what they say without seeing every ic on the pcb.
gl850 and 6 (downstream) usb 2.0 ports, be my guest.


anyway,
"MSI also used PCIe 3.0 redrivers on some of their boards to force some lanes to be slower and to reduce cost, so again, it can be done."
which model??

One mans magic is another mans technology...


Models...
All these boards also appear to have PCIe 3.0 M.2 slots, if it's not the slot with lanes from the CPU.

• 1 x PCIe 4.0/ 3.0 x16 slot (PCI_E1)
  • 3rd Gen AMD Ryzen™ support PCIe 4.0 x16 mode
  • 2nd Gen AMD Ryzen™ support PCIe 3.0 x16 mode
  • Ryzen™ 4000 G-Series support PCIe 3.0x16/x0/x0, x8/x0/x8, x8/x4/x4 mode
  • Ryzen™ with Radeon™ Vega Graphics and 2nd Gen AMD Ryzen™ with Radeon™ Graphics support PCIe 3.0 x8 mode
• 1 x PCIe 4.0/ 3.0 x16 slot (PCI_E3, supports x4 mode)
• 3 x PCIe 3.0 x1 slots

X570-A PRO | Motherboard | MSI Global

Best AMD AM4 X570 ATX motherboard, lightning PCIe 4.0, two lightning M.2, Frozr heatsink, USB 3.2 Gen 2, Mystic Light, M.2 heatsink, excellent overclocking, MSI PRO

www.msi.com

• 1x PCIe 4.0/3.0 x16 slot (PCI_E1)
  • 3rd Gen AMD Ryzen™ support PCIe 4.0 x16 mode
  • 2nd Gen AMD Ryzen™ support PCIe 3.0x16 mode
  • Ryzen™ 4000 G-Series support PCIe 3.0x16/x0/x0, x8/x0/x8, x8/x4/x4 mode
  • Ryzen™ with Radeon™ Vega Graphics and 2nd Gen AMD Ryzen™ with Radeon™ Graphics support PCIe 3.0 x8 mode
• 1x PCIe 4.0/ 3.0 x16 slot (PCI_E3, supports x4 mode)
• 3x PCIe 3.0 x1 slots

MPG X570 GAMING PLUS

Satisfying gamers with what they really need, MPG X570 GAMING PLUS is equipped with Extended Heatsink Design, Frozr Heatsink Design, Core boost, Lightning Gen4 M.2, M.2 Shield Frozr accessory, Game Boost, Turbo USB and MSI latest Dragon Center. Black and

www.msi.com

• 1x PCIe 4.0/ 3.0 x16 slot (PCI_E1)
  • 3rd Gen AMD Ryzen™ support PCIe 4.0 x16 mode
  • 2nd Gen AMD Ryzen™ support PCIe 3.0 x16 mode
  • Ryzen™ 4000 G-Series support PCIe 3.0x16/x0/x0, x8/x0/x8, x8/x4/x4 mode
  • Ryzen™ with Radeon™ Vega Graphics and 2nd Gen AMD Ryzen™ with Radeon™ Graphics support PCIe 3.0 x8 mode
• 1x PCIe 4.0/ 3.0 x16 slot (PCI_E3, supports x4 mode)
• 3x PCIe 3.0 x1 slots

MPG X570 GAMING EDGE WIFI

Worth buying AMD AM4 X570 ATX gaming motherboard, lightning PCIe 4.0, lightning M.2, lightning M.2, Frozr heatsink, WiFi, USB 3.2 Gen 2, M.2 heatsink, good overclocking, extended heatsink, pre-install I/O, MSI GAMING

www.msi.com

 

[CheapMeat]

So awesome to see 10G and 2.5G NICs! I love seeing EATX boards too. I love huge boards. I don't think I will be changing anything on my setup until DDR5 era arrives though. I can't wait to see what ASUS does with the SAGE dual series.

 

[asdkj1740]

One mans magic is another mans technology...


Models...
All these boards also appear to have PCIe 3.0 M.2 slots, if it's not the slot with lanes from the CPU.

• 1 x PCIe 4.0/ 3.0 x16 slot (PCI_E1)
  • 3rd Gen AMD Ryzen™ support PCIe 4.0 x16 mode
  • 2nd Gen AMD Ryzen™ support PCIe 3.0 x16 mode
  • Ryzen™ 4000 G-Series support PCIe 3.0x16/x0/x0, x8/x0/x8, x8/x4/x4 mode
  • Ryzen™ with Radeon™ Vega Graphics and 2nd Gen AMD Ryzen™ with Radeon™ Graphics support PCIe 3.0 x8 mode
• 1 x PCIe 4.0/ 3.0 x16 slot (PCI_E3, supports x4 mode)
• 3 x PCIe 3.0 x1 slots

X570-A PRO | Motherboard | MSI Global

Best AMD AM4 X570 ATX motherboard, lightning PCIe 4.0, two lightning M.2, Frozr heatsink, USB 3.2 Gen 2, Mystic Light, M.2 heatsink, excellent overclocking, MSI PRO

www.msi.com

• 1x PCIe 4.0/3.0 x16 slot (PCI_E1)
  • 3rd Gen AMD Ryzen™ support PCIe 4.0 x16 mode
  • 2nd Gen AMD Ryzen™ support PCIe 3.0x16 mode
  • Ryzen™ 4000 G-Series support PCIe 3.0x16/x0/x0, x8/x0/x8, x8/x4/x4 mode
  • Ryzen™ with Radeon™ Vega Graphics and 2nd Gen AMD Ryzen™ with Radeon™ Graphics support PCIe 3.0 x8 mode
• 1x PCIe 4.0/ 3.0 x16 slot (PCI_E3, supports x4 mode)
• 3x PCIe 3.0 x1 slots

MPG X570 GAMING PLUS

Satisfying gamers with what they really need, MPG X570 GAMING PLUS is equipped with Extended Heatsink Design, Frozr Heatsink Design, Core boost, Lightning Gen4 M.2, M.2 Shield Frozr accessory, Game Boost, Turbo USB and MSI latest Dragon Center. Black and

www.msi.com

• 1x PCIe 4.0/ 3.0 x16 slot (PCI_E1)
  • 3rd Gen AMD Ryzen™ support PCIe 4.0 x16 mode
  • 2nd Gen AMD Ryzen™ support PCIe 3.0 x16 mode
  • Ryzen™ 4000 G-Series support PCIe 3.0x16/x0/x0, x8/x0/x8, x8/x4/x4 mode
  • Ryzen™ with Radeon™ Vega Graphics and 2nd Gen AMD Ryzen™ with Radeon™ Graphics support PCIe 3.0 x8 mode
• 1x PCIe 4.0/ 3.0 x16 slot (PCI_E3, supports x4 mode)
• 3x PCIe 3.0 x1 slots

MPG X570 GAMING EDGE WIFI

Worth buying AMD AM4 X570 ATX gaming motherboard, lightning PCIe 4.0, lightning M.2, lightning M.2, Frozr heatsink, WiFi, USB 3.2 Gen 2, M.2 heatsink, good overclocking, extended heatsink, pre-install I/O, MSI GAMING

www.msi.com

any pcb picture showing gen3 redriver is specifically used to "slow down" the pcie x1 slot from 4.0 to 3.0?
from what i have seen, asus simply "uses" asm1480 as gen3 switch on its z490 eg prime a but still able to make pcie4.0x16 works on the first pcie x16 slot.
not saying redrivers and switches are the same thing btw.

not going to argue or say anything else toward this subject, sadly i cant find any test online to show they were just typo on msi first gen x570.
it makes no sense for mobo vendors to suddenly lock the pcie from 4.0 to 3.0 (m.2 slot or pcie slot) on x570 which nice pcb material to sustain gen4 signal is used.

 

[TheLostSwede]

any pcb picture showing gen3 redriver is specifically used to "slow down" the pcie x1 slot from 4.0 to 3.0?
from what i have seen, asus simply "uses" asm1480 as gen3 switch on its z490 eg prime a but still able to make pcie4.0x16 works on the first pcie x16 slot.
not saying redrivers and switches are the same thing btw.

not going to argue or say anything else toward this subject, sadly i cant find any test online to show they were just typo on msi first gen x570.
it makes no sense for mobo vendors to suddenly lock the pcie from 4.0 to 3.0 (m.2 slot or pcie slot) on x570 which nice pcb material to sustain gen4 signal is used.

It's because the first x16 slot doesn't require re-drivers...
Same for the first M.2 slot.

That said, it seems like MSI might have artificially limited things on a lot of their boards, as the second M.2 slot on most of these boards is also only PCIe 3.0.
As to why MSI would do this, who knows, but my guess is they want to "upsell" their potential customers to more expensive models and maybe it saved them a few cents per board..
Also, as most people don't have any PCIe 4.0 x1 devices, or even use the x1 slots, it's most likely something they'll "get away" with, without anyone really complaining about it.
I highly doubt it's a typo when it's across all their cheaper SKUs and not on their higher-end SKUs.

• 2x PCIe 4.0/ 3.0 x16 slots (PCI_E1, PCI_E3)
  • 3rd Gen AMD Ryzen™ support PCIe 4.0 x16/x0, x8/x8 modes
  • 2nd Gen AMD Ryzen™ support PCIe 3.0 x16/x0, x8/x8 modes
  • Ryzen™ 4000 G-Series support PCIe 3.0 x16/x0, x8/x8 modes
  • Ryzen™ with Radeon™ Vega Graphics and 2nd Gen AMD Ryzen™ with Radeon™ Graphics support PCIe 3.0 x8 mode1
• 1x PCIe 4.0/ 3.0 x16 slot (PCI_E5, supports x4 mode)
• 2x PCIe 4.0/ 3.0 x1 slots

MEG X570 ACE | Motherboard | MSI Global

Best AMD AM4 X570 ATX gaming motherboard, lightning PCIe 4.0, three lightning M.2, dual LAN, Frozr heatsink, WiFi 6, USB 3.2 Gen 2 and Mystic Light, M.2 heatsink, infinity LED, excellent overclocking, pre-install I/O, extended heat-pipe, MSI GAMING

www.msi.com