Diablo II: Ressurected Beta

[Cvrk]

@Vayra86 i know I made THIS review on it where I kinda say the same
@Jill Valentine except it's not. I wanted exactly the same but you won't get it (we...we won't get it cuz I'm in the same boat with you)
@Operandi yeah I also considered Diablo 2 to be the king, and everything that came after was like a copy/paste something... But new implementations and mechanics etc matter so much.

Check out this article Not So Massively: Diablo II Resurrected is a lot of old school jank in a pretty wrapper

This is what one of the viewers has commented on my video

"I enjoy the game and I'm buying it, but I get what you're saying. I share many of the same issues. I feel like not quite enough has been done to make the gameplay less clunky.
The way you select and cast spells compared to modern ARPGs is awful and slow, keeping the potion belt loaded up is obnoxious, and your inventory filling up after picking up like 4 or 5 pieces of loot gets really old really fast. I think we all put up with this stuff 20 years ago because the game was so fresh and amazing for the time, but in 2021 Diablo 2 is - in terms of how it controls - clunky and trashy.

Games like Path of Exile and Grim Dawn are so much more fluid and you get to focus more on playing the game rather than switching spells or loading up a belt or taking your 10th trip back to town in 30 minutes. It's inevitable people are going to hate your video, because most people can't see anything from a point of view other than their own and there are a lot of people who like the aesthetic/emotional feeling that they're this ardent defender of the sanctity of classic games.

But these people don't actually care about the game itself, they only care about that emotional feeling of "defending" it against people who want to make it better. Anyone who cares about the actual enjoyability of the game should admit that the way the game plays is tedious and out of date. But it could be fixed fairly easily. And I'm 35 and played Diablo 2 when it was new, so I'm not just some kid rolling up for the first time. I was there back in the day. But nostalgia goggles are stupid."

 

[Vayra86]

Well put! But its not 'just' nostalgia goggles. Its the simple fact and idea of 'Less is more'. The simplicity, really, makes the game more interesting. The fact you are micro managing inventory space or being forced to choose between leaving stuff (=currency) or going back AGAIN is also a gameplay element!

Newer gamers tend to not even know this. The game has always managed it for them, and in doing so, the gameplay focus moves to .... meta builds and mindless farming And we all know this can get boring very quickly, and the mindless part is there exactly because the game never forces real choices.

Not having respec or 'easy' respeccing is another such element. Is it really worse? Or does it actually keep the game more replayable?

 

[Ruru]

TL;DR what's that respeccing everyone is talking about?

 

[c2DDragon]

TL;DR what's that respeccing everyone is talking about?

You can reset your skills tree talking to a NPC in the first "town", I don't know if it was possible in the original Diablo 2 because I skipped it in the past. Did Diablo then Diablo 3.

EDIT : I wanted to screen it from the Bêta but it's over xD

source : https://www.gosunoob.com/guides/diablo-2-resurrected-respec-reset-skills/

 

[Ruru]

You can reset your skills tree talking to a NPC in the first "town", I don't know if it was possible in the original Diablo 2 because I skipped it in the past. Did Diablo then Diablo 3.

Isn't that possible as well with newer D2 LoD patches? Probably many hasn't played with those if respecing is a new feature for those.

 

[londiste]

Isn't that possible as well with newer D2 LoD patches? Probably many hasn't played with those if respecing is a new feature for those.

Respec as Den of Evil quest reward was added in 1.13c back in 2010 or so.

 

[Ruru]

Respec as Den of Evil quest reward was added in 1.13c back in 2010 or so.

Yeah, my memory seems to serve me right this time

 

[c2DDragon]

Yeah, my memory seems to serve me right this time

I've never done Diablo 2 but yeah from what I just read in few forums you could do that

 

[bug]

I've never done Diablo 2 but yeah from what I just read in few forums you could do that

Actually no, you couldn't. By the time this was added, >90% of the player based had already moved on. For all intents and purposes, playing D2 was a no-respec affair.
But without this and the shared stash, D2R would be a complete no-go in 2021.

 

[Sithaer]

You can respec all you want in D2 for quite some time now on top of the Akara one, ever since they added Tokens to the game which is farmable on hell from specific bosses then you just craft it in the cube.
Checked now to be sure, it was added to the game with 1.13c.

On the topic of D2R.
After playing it for the second time during the recent open beta weekend, yeah I'm not buying it unless its dirt cheap discounted.
Not because its bad but because even after playing for a few hours I already got tired of it cause yea its pretty but its the same old game I already know in and out. 'probably put thousands of hours in the game back in the days'
Ultrawide support is also half assed now, its not completely black bars but more like faded out at the sides of the screen almost like a fog of war. 'could still change before relase tho'

I guess my nostalgic googles are gone after all this time, this aged gameplay just doesn't really cut it for me anymore.
Not interested in doing god knows how many Pit/Tunnel/CS/etc runs in D2 again just to hope for some HRs to drop nor spend all my time trading with other ppl in order to make end game RWs.

D3 might be a train wreck in some ppl's eyes but at least I can still jump in that game after 2500+ hours and play for 2-3 weeks during a season and have a blast with it then put it down for months.
If all else fails theres always Grim Dawn which is imo the best of both worlds.

D4 I will buy it on day 1 most likely unless there will be some very alarming things about it before relase but so farm I'm interested.

 

[bug]

@Sithaer Do not hold your breath for wide screen improvements. Afaik, it is what it is right now on purpose, to avoid giving an advantage to people with ultrawides (e.g. sorceress sees loot, teleports and snatches it and you don't even know it happened).

 

[Sithaer]

@Sithaer Do not hold your breath for wide screen improvements. Afaik, it is what it is right now on purpose, to avoid giving an advantage to people with ultrawides (e.g. sorceress sees loot, teleports and snatches it and you don't even know it happened).

That was always an issue even in the original game if you played online on Bnet, some ppl used a third party software called picki/or other software that had it built in and it basically insta grabbed/teleported to everything even before you could blink. 'This makes me wonder if they also upgraded their anti cheat system or it will be just as useless as in the original '

Even if one day I decide to play D2R it will be singleplayer/solo only so I would like to have my Ultrawide there since it doesn't affect anyone.
Oh well I'm sure there will be workarounds for it in singleplayer at least.

Other reason I read on the Blizz forums is the die hard purists/pvpers complaining that its an advantage in PvP.

 

[bug]

That was always an issue even in the original game if you played online on Bnet, some ppl used a third party software called pickit and it basically insta grabbed/teleported to everything even before you could blink.
Even if one day I decide to play D2R it will be singleplayer/solo only so I would like to have my Ultrawide there since it doesn't affect anyone.
Oh well I'm sure there will be workarounds for it in singleplayer at least.

Other reason I read on the Blizz forums is the die hard purists/pvpers complaining that its an advantage in PvP.

I suspect it's hard to organize teams around D2R today, thus mostly people will be playing by themselves (myself included), so proper wide screen support wouldn't be such an issue. I was just relaying what Blizzard said about this matter. Luckily for me, I hate wide screen so my widest monitor is 16:9

 

[c2DDragon]

Good anticheat system or not, for me, it will be like in D3 : solo or with friends only.
Even if it will take years to get a descent gear.
I hate to be carried by ultra powered people who nuke the whole map in seconds, while I run to take the loots, this is not fun xD
I understand it's cool to help people when YOU are the person with the powerbuilds, I helped some randoms few times, when I was hardtrying D3 years ago with the barbarian and the crusader too, but I felt like I was spoiling their fun.

 

[bug]

Good anticheat system or not, for me, it will be like in D3 : solo or with friends only.
Even if it will take years to get a descent gear.
I hate to be carried by ultra powered people who nuke the whole map in seconds, while I run to take the loots, this is not fun xD
I understand it's cool to help people when YOU are the person with the powerbuilds, I helped some randoms few times, when I was hardtrying D3 years ago with the barbarian and the crusader too, but I felt like I was spoiling their fun.

Well, that how games (and other things, really) work: everyone likes something else, even when playing the same game.

 

[Cvrk]

Not having respec or 'easy' respeccing is another such element. Is it really worse? Or does it actually keep the game more replayable?

That's an excellent question. It all depends on the person you are asking.

I come from "punish me i like it" gaming background. For years I have played farming simulators like Lineage 2 or Silkroad Online. And for about 15+ years I had very low spec computers...only in recent years things have changed, I stopped farming, choosing fun and story with great graphics on a computer that can actually handle them.

I would choose to not respec. Only because you are forced to think hard on those 2 skill points you get on each level and have to play/live with your choices and character build. Sure....that does not add replayability. Cuz once I get the last cutscene that game is forever uninstalled.

 

[Vayra86]

That's an excellent question. It all depends on the person you are asking.

I come from "punish me i like it" gaming background. For years I have played farming simulators like Lineage 2 or Silkroad Online. And for about 15+ years I had very low spec computers...only in recent years things have changed, I stopped farming, choosing fun and story with great graphics on a computer that can actually handle them.

I would choose to not respec. Only because you are forced to think hard on those 2 skill points you get on each level and have to play/live with your choices and character build. Sure....that does not add replayability. Cuz once I get the last cutscene that game is forever uninstalled.

I think thats the nail on the head: and its great that different games exist (ARPGs) and all doing things just a bit different. That is also why D2 stands out, even today.

And its why many triple A stuff from today all tastes the same. Every dev is looking at what's fashionable now and copies it, then sprinkles some 'unique stuff' on top to call it their own. That's not originality. Its innovation for the sake of looking different, not better, but actually its really more of the same.

 

[bug]

I think thats the nail on the head: and its great that different games exist (ARPGs) and all doing things just a bit different. That is also why D2 stands out, even today.

And its why many triple A stuff from today all tastes the same. Every dev is looking at what's fashionable now and copies it, then sprinkles some 'unique stuff' on top to call it their own. That's not originality. Its innovation for the sake of looking different, not better, but actually its really more of the same.

Imho respeccing is both cheesy and required when you sink hundreds of hours into a game playing with a sword, only to end up with an elite, ultra-rare axe (most people will trade it, but that's another story). I like best the games that let you respec, but increase the price every time you do it. That gives you a little flexibility, but not enough to let you mindlessly allocate skill points.

 

[Sithaer]

Good anticheat system or not, for me, it will be like in D3 : solo or with friends only.
Even if it will take years to get a descent gear.
I hate to be carried by ultra powered people who nuke the whole map in seconds, while I run to take the loots, this is not fun xD
I understand it's cool to help people when YOU are the person with the powerbuilds, I helped some randoms few times, when I was hardtrying D3 years ago with the barbarian and the crusader too, but I felt like I was spoiling their fun.

Yeah I'm usually that one with the power build but I play 99% of the time solo nowadays and only help friends in D3 when they ask me to give them a boost since I always start seasons on day 1 so they wait a few days and ask me to boost them. 'even this don't happen anymore cause I play Hardcore for a while now and they didn't follow me there'

But yea some ppl don't mind or even ask for a boost, personally I prefer to get things done myself so I don't ask for that.

That's an excellent question. It all depends on the person you are asking.

I come from "punish me i like it" gaming background. For years I have played farming simulators like Lineage 2 or Silkroad Online. And for about 15+ years I had very low spec computers...only in recent years things have changed, I stopped farming, choosing fun and story with great graphics on a computer that can actually handle them.

I would choose to not respec. Only because you are forced to think hard on those 2 skill points you get on each level and have to play/live with your choices and character build. Sure....that does not add replayability. Cuz once I get the last cutscene that game is forever uninstalled.

For me respec is pretty much a must have in this genre, I like to mess around with various builds cause I find that enjoyable/interesting and I aint gonna level up a new char for each of my builds.
Been there done that in the old D2 days before respec but I don't have the patience nor the time anymore to pull stunts like that.

In Borderlands 3 for example I'm often tinkering with my builds, its part of the end game experience for me.

 

[Vayra86]

Imho respeccing is both cheesy and required when you sink hundreds of hours into a game playing with a sword, only to end up with an elite, ultra-rare axe (most people with trade it, but that's another story). I like best the games that let you respec, but increase the price every time you do it. That gives you a little flexibility, but not enough to let you mindlessly allocate skill points.

Absolutely agree at this point in time, with the experiences I have. But at the same time, when I played D2 back in the day (as a noob) and getting to know ARPGs, it was actually helpful not respeccing and being forced to siphon every last drop out of your choices. Failure is/was the best teacher. Also, in, say, Grim Dawn, respeccing is limited (even though they did unlock Mastery point respec too later, you still can't switch classes, so you're really effectively tied to your initial build choices anyway) I'd say it adds a great deal of replay value.

Perhaps the combination of D2, the low amount of QoL features AND the lack of easy respec is too much for someone's blood, I can get that tbh.

tinkering with my builds, its part of the end game experience for me.

Absolutely. Respec also adds replay value in its own way.

 

[bug]

Absolutely agree at this point in time, with the experiences I have. But at the same time, when I played D2 back in the day (as a noob) and getting to know ARPGs, it was actually helpful not respeccing and being forced to siphon every last drop out of your choices. Failure is/was the best teacher. Also, in, say, Grim Dawn, respeccing is limited (even though they did unlock Mastery point respec too later, you still can't switch classes, so you're really effectively tied to your initial build choices anyway) I'd say it adds a great deal of replay value.

Perhaps the combination of D2, the low amount of QoL features AND the lack of easy respec is too much for someone's blood, I can get that tbh.

Yup, a big part of the fun was that you had to plan ahead, dig for viable builds. Decisions mattered.
It was a little less fun when they added skill synergies and you were kinda forced to respec, but respec wasn't in the game yet.

Grim Dawn, I never got into. Too many deaths by random damage spikes. I enjoyed they way they did it in TQ, but in GD it just felt like you could never engage a boss without reading which auras/effects they spawned with. Also too many damage types (and resists to go with them), it was so apparent the devs were at their wits end, but stubbornly refused to scale back.

 

[Space Lynx]

Yup, a big part of the fun was that you had to plan ahead, dig for viable builds. Decisions mattered.
It was a little less fun when they added skill synergies and you were kinda forced to respec, but respec wasn't in the game yet.

Grim Dawn, I never got into. Too many deaths by random damage spikes. I enjoyed they way they did it in TQ, but in GD it just felt like you could never engage a boss without reading which auras/effects they spawned with. Also too many damage types (and resists to go with them), it was so apparent the devs were at their wits end, but stubbornly refused to scale back.

I'm assuming TQ means Titan Quest? As far as this genre goes, that is my favorite game. Mainly because I love that time period in history though. Grim Dawn has the prettiest graphics I think though.

 

[bug]

I'm assuming TQ means Titan Quest? As far as this genre goes, that is my favorite game. Mainly because I love that time period in history though. Grim Dawn has the prettiest graphics I think though.

I liked TQ (and TQ:IT) graphics better. GD looks like it can't decide whether it wants to be grim or cartoonish. But yeah, it's in the eye of the beholder.
TQ also gets credit for being littered with (accurate) mythology references. The classes in TQ were also better fleshed out (ever thought spirit+dream can make a great melee toon?), but that may be because I didn't get deep enough in GD.

 

[Sithaer]

Absolutely agree at this point in time, with the experiences I have. But at the same time, when I played D2 back in the day (as a noob) and getting to know ARPGs, it was actually helpful not respeccing and being forced to siphon every last drop out of your choices. Failure is/was the best teacher. Also, in, say, Grim Dawn, respeccing is limited (even though they did unlock Mastery point respec too later, you still can't switch classes, so you're really effectively tied to your initial build choices anyway) I'd say it adds a great deal of replay value.

Perhaps the combination of D2, the low amount of QoL features AND the lack of easy respec is too much for someone's blood, I can get that tbh.


Absolutely. Respec also adds replay value in its own way.

My first lvl 100 char 'blademaster' in GD was kinda messed up cause I did it blind and based only what I knew from TQ since similar core systems.
Skills were so so but my constellation was pretty bad so I was glad for a respec. 'did more than 1 respec since to put a few points differently'

My early D2 chars were disasters too until I learned the game and its mechanics + started reading in depth guides.
Before respec was a thing I literally had to do the math myself and count on paper how many stats I have to put where with the planned out end game gear I'm gonna use and whatnot. 'so that I can dump everything else on Vit so no wasted stats'
What stat bonuses that gear gives and various other things to consider like how many dex to keep up my 75% capped block rate at lvl 90+ with the shield I was going to use,etc. 'this was years after I started playing obviously'
Granted I got lazy as I grew older and nowadays I just slap a respec if I messed up something or didn't like a skill/build but I still like to try things out.

I'm assuming TQ means Titan Quest? As far as this genre goes, that is my favorite game. Mainly because I love that time period in history though. Grim Dawn has the prettiest graphics I think though.

Aye that, GD is using an improved version of TQ's engine as far as I know.
TQ was like the first ARPG I really got into after I finally put down D2, it was a new experience but I really liked it and made multiple high lvl chars.

I also found the game pretty at the time, compared to D2's graphics for sure.
That and I also like that part of history/mythology, more than GD's world actually.

 

[bug]

That and I also like that part of history/mythology, more than GD's world actually.

To be completely fair, TQ had a mythology to tap into, something that is simply not available to GD. But because it did it and it did it nicely, TQ deserves credit.
(Somewhat fun fact: when the TQ expansion was announced, I was left wondering who is our hero going to chase next, since he obviously just ran out of titans.)