Microsoft Dives into the Internals of Windows 11

[dyonoctis]

I wouldn't rule out AMD working on a big.LITTLE of its own.

How small can you make a Zen1 core (originally designed for 14 nm) with TSMC 5 nm?

View attachment 216192

Source: My magic ass.

Someone else magic ass said that zen 4 will be used for the small core :

 

[Solaris17]

Windows 11's TPM Module with a universally-identifiable number

I take it you have no idea how a TPM works.

Jeez, some of these comments are wild. I'm surprised people bold enough to publicly call themselves intelligent drone on about "Windows sucks" and "People are going to hate it".

The only people that are going to bitch are:

A: Old people or anyone afraid of change or otherwise tech illiterate.
B: The negligible less than 1% of people that are enthusiasts and actually build their own systems that actually dislike it.

Since before windows 8 so around a decade now, eeePCs and other "tablets" and "budget" under $400 machines have been plied to the masses from various manufacturers making throw away tech the norm for years.

Windows 10 Home will stop working on some $379 target ultrabook with a 12" screen and they will go out and buy a new one with windows 11 and the HW requirements built in. They will spend 35min trying to use it, find microsoft word and move on.

No one will be in the street protesting it because 98+% of apple and microsofts target market the ones that ACTUALLY make them money were trained not to care years ago.

 

[ThrashZone]

The only people that are going to bitch are:

A: Old people or anyone afraid of change or otherwise tech illiterate.
B: The negligible less than 1% of people that are enthusiasts and actually build their own systems that actually dislike it.

Hi,
How about
C: perfectly good systems 5-6-7 year old that can run 11 perfectly well are not compatible for no really good reason other than there will be no bios updates for them.

Is that worth bitching about I think so lol

Hell even a 15 year old system can run 11 there is nothing special about 11 other than silly obnoxious security requirements.

The company also described fine-grained application performance prioritization, which automatically prevents "trivial" apps from taking up too many system resources.

Hell this is all ms apps to me frankly lol

 

[zlobby]

M$ dives into stuff they want you to know, not all the new hidden telemetry* should be the title.

Linux Mint to the moon boys!!!!!

I just switched to Linux Mint (latest beta release) I AM FREAKING IN LOVE!!! TAKE CARE WINDOWS 10 and 11 LMAO

So first impressions so far today... it's smooth!!! So smooth! It's very user friendly... I have already installed Steam with two clicks, updated all my drivers from the welcome window that pops up on first install, installed proprietary Nvidia driver, got gsync working. Steam has an awesome...

www.techpowerup.com

Mint-y fresh?

I take it you have no idea how a TPM works.

Jeez, some of these comments are wild. I'm surprised people bold enough to publicly call themselves intelligent drone on about "Windows sucks" and "People are going to hate it".

The only people that are going to bitch are:

A: Old people or anyone afraid of change or otherwise tech illiterate.
B: The negligible less than 1% of people that are enthusiasts and actually build their own systems that actually dislike it.

Since before windows 8 so around a decade now, eeePCs and other "tablets" and "budget" under $400 machines have been plied to the masses from various manufacturers making throw away tech the norm for years.

Windows 10 Home will stop working on some $379 target ultrabook with a 12" screen and they will go out and buy a new one with windows 11 and the HW requirements built in. They will spend 35min trying to use it, find microsoft word and move on.

No one will be in the street protesting it because 98+% of apple and microsofts target market the ones that ACTUALLY make them money were trained not to care years ago.

Hmm, same language or tone did get me a 'yellow card' on several occasions.

 

[MentalAcetylide]

Well, at least Windows hasn't gone the way of "free-to-play" and tries to goad you into making micro-transactions for changing your desktop themes, adding/removing hardware, or editing the registry... yet.

 

[MikeMurphy]

C: perfectly good systems 5-6-7 year old that can run 11 perfectly well are not compatible for no really good reason other than there will be no bios updates for them.

Is that worth bitching about I think so lol

Hell even a 15 year old system can run 11 there is nothing special about 11 other than silly obnoxious security requirements.

Then stick with Windows 10 as it has at least another 4 years of support.

By that time these systems will be quite dated and likely up for replacement anyways.

 

[zlobby]

Well, at least Windows hasn't gone the way of "free-to-play" and tries to goad you into making micro-transactions for changing your desktop themes, adding/removing hardware, or editing the registry... yet.

Strong emphasis on 'yet'.

 

[Space Lynx]

Strong emphasis on 'yet'.

Well, at least Windows hasn't gone the way of "free-to-play" and tries to goad you into making micro-transactions for changing your desktop themes, adding/removing hardware, or editing the registry... yet.

100% certain M$ would have done exactly that by now if it wasn't for Linux Mint and other Ubuntu branches being polished enough to use by a common user (Mint especially is very plug and play now), Apple is a different user base, but M$ knows they can't risk an exodus to Linux just yet.

Competition is a lovely thing sometimes to keep the beasts reigned in.

 

[MentalAcetylide]

100% certain M$ would have done exactly that by now if it wasn't for Linux Mint and other Ubuntu branches being polished enough to use by a common user (Mint especially is very plug and play now), Apple is a different user base, but M$ knows they can't risk an exodus to Linux just yet.

Competition is a lovely thing sometimes to keep the beasts reigned in.

heh, don't fool yourself. Microsoft has a good chunk of the market by the balls due to a lot of software being made specifically for windows, and they're more than willing to give that hairy sack a few tugs, taps, and twists to reign in the market to their favor. The only thing keeping them from pulling too hard is if they piss off too many people, one of the first places the outcry is going to reach is the opportunistic-for-votes legislators, which would not be a good thing for MS.
Give me a non-ms OS that can run all of my windows programs, and I'll gladly have a separate VR machine set up for me to learn how to use it and start breaking the chains of Microslave.

 

[DeathtoGnomes]

The company may even penalize PCs running unsupported hardware with no access to security updates.

I wanted to blame my hdd failure and say current feature updates already penalize the hardware, but this is (or should be) limited to cpu/motherboard hardware. Thisis also a message to that IT guy that still refuses to update to windows 10.

 

[Naito]

Then stick with Windows 10 as it has at least another 4 years of support.

By that time these systems will be quite dated and likely up for replacement anyways.

Stop being so logical and let everyone moan and b*tch while holding on tight to their sense of entitlement!

 

[matar]

Will stick with windows 10 for now. especially that direct storage will be available on windows 10.

 

[Tardian]

I am no a huge fan of W10, but W11 has "Sleeping Tabs". I really like that idea.

 

[Vya Domus]

If you had a choice, and could buy a CPU in an 8+8 or 10+0 configuration from the same manufacturer at the same price, which one would you choose?

I don't want to choose between such crappy options. But they're never gonna offer such configurations anyway because they don't make sense for them. They'll only manufacture chips with both efficiency cores and high performance cores because that way they get the maximum amount of cores that they can advertise.

This is all about Intel losing the core count battle, if you can't win at the game change the rules.

 

[Aretak]

I take it you have no idea how a TPM works.

You seem to be the one with no idea how a TPM actually works if you think what he said is in some way incorrect. All TPMs have immutable keys burned in at manufacturing time (called 'Endorsement Keys'), which are unique per TPM. This essentially makes your device identifiable at all times, regardless of where you are or whether you're hiding behind a VPN or such. There's so much ignorance on this subject, with people buying into Microsoft's BS about how it's just some harmless little module that's there for your safety. It's there for your identification and will be used for DRM purposes in the very near future. Hell, you could say it's already begun, with Valorant now requiring both Secure Boot and TPM 2.0 functionality to even launch on Windows 11. Enjoy the brave new future of computing, and remember that corporations and governments always have your best interests at heart, and just want to keep you safe from terrorist hacker pedophiles who are hiding under your bed right now.

 

[dyonoctis]

You seem to be the one with no idea how a TPM actually works if you think what he said is in some way incorrect. All TPMs have immutable keys burned in at manufacturing time (called 'Endorsement Keys'), which are unique per TPM. This essentially makes your device identifiable at all times, regardless of where you are or whether you're hiding behind a VPN or such. There's so much ignorance on this subject, with people buying into Microsoft's BS about how it's just some harmless little module that's there for your safety. It's there for your identification and will be used for DRM purposes in the very near future. Hell, you could say it's already begun, with Valorant now requiring both Secure Boot and TPM 2.0 functionality to even launch on Windows 11. Enjoy the brave new future of computing, and remember that corporations and governments always have your best interests at heart, and just want to keep you safe from terrorist hacker pedophiles who are hiding under your bed right now.

Eh, then any modern piece of technology is bad then ? Phones got the IMEI, network device got the MAC, credit cards got chips who are very similar to a TPM. That sounds like the start of a slippery road where even cars plate and identification number is a violation of privacy... Big companies are shady, but the average Joe can be shady as well, with all the hit and run, and other frauds made by an individual. It's sad to say, but absolute anonymity is going to remain a fantasy as long as people keep dabbling into criminal activities. The dark web is proof of what people are willing to do when they know that they can't get caught (or more difficult to get caught).

 

[Vayra86]

Then stick with Windows 10 as it has at least another 4 years of support.

By that time these systems will be quite dated and likely up for replacement anyways.

This.

/thread.

Its a new Windows version all over again. Who would've thought, seeing as the previous 'One'... was actually called 10. Who ever stopped counting at ten?

And as usual; the best approach is simply to hang back, get your popcorn, whine about new features and then find a pretty well developed OS when you can't avoid it anymore. 4 years is a long time, and all Windows support periods have been quite long so far. And if they're not long enough because the market won't move... MS is forced to adjust. Can't have millions of security leaks in your user base, bad PR.

This is a healthy consumer/corp relationship, especially for a near monopolist.

 

[ThrashZone]

Then stick with Windows 10 as it has at least another 4 years of support.

By that time these systems will be quite dated and likely up for replacement anyways.

Hi,
Can't stand win-10 it's only a benchmark os to me frankly doubt 11 would be any different.
I use linux on my z490 the only system I don't have win-7 installed on as daily drivers.

 

[smiler3d]

Zero trust from user or from Microsoft (Microsoft have had little trust from many users since/from win 10)

Has anybody ever really trusted Microsoft

 

[zlobby]

Eh, then any modern piece of technology is bad then ? Phones got the IMEI, network device got the MAC, credit cards got chips who are very similar to a TPM. That sounds like the start of a slippery road where even cars plate and identification number is a violation of privacy... Big companies are shady, but the average Joe can be shady as well, with all the hit and run, and other frauds made by an individual. It's sad to say, but absolute anonymity is going to remain a fantasy as long as people keep dabbling into criminal activities. The dark web is proof of what people are willing to do when they know that they can't get caught (or more difficult to get caught).

That logic cannot be more flawed. While the dilemma is as old as the world, the solution is simple. Simple, however doesn't mean easy to implement.

Actually, it's only solvable in a perfect society, where everyone can audit everyone's actions.
Until then non-criminals will be siphoned from privacy and power (by pretext of prevention and law enforcement), by people who already have more power, i.e. governments, corporations and criminals (these are often synonyms), ultimately leading to skew in the distribution of power to anyone but the average Joe.

It is frankly unavoidable. A Great filter is upon us.

 

[dyonoctis]

That logic cannot be more flawed. While the dilemma is as old as the world, the solution is simple. Simple, however doesn't mean easy to implement.

Actually, it's only solvable in a perfect society, where everyone can audit everyone's actions.
Until then non-criminals will be siphoned from privacy and power (by pretext of prevention and law enforcement), by people who already have more power, i.e. governments, corporations and criminals (these are often synonyms), ultimately leading to skew in the distribution of power to anyone but the average Joe.

It is frankly unavoidable. A Great filter is upon us.

Well that's the thing, how can we have a "perfect" society, when there's so many individuals after power and money ? Every time that an old unfair system get replaced by something better corruption always finds a way in

To get back on topic, IMO, the whole TPM things is blown out of proportion. because of the field that I'm working in, my real name and ways to contact me have to be on the web, it's the case for many people, my computer having a unique ID isn't going to ruin my life

 

[john_]

I think this is nonsense. Please explain how will Alder Lake with only 24 threads on a broken 10 nm process be both faster and more efficient than the mighty 32-thread Ryzen 9 5950X, let alone the coming 3D V-cache Ryzen 6000?

I can realize the limitations of basic understanding you are facing, when rushing to throw a laughing smile and talk about nonsense.
People like you many(damn...) years ago could not understand how a 2.5GHz Athlon64 was running circles around a 3GHz Pentium 4. You see, 3GHz > 2.5GHz.

I fully explain my point of view in that post. I can't explain it further, but you said "please" so let me try again.

Try to not read my post as a one simple sentence. There are more than one sentences there. Here, let me also put some colors for you.

They will have to jump either they like it or not. Because that Big little setup gives a huge marketing advantage to Intel.

It can advertise the same number of cores as top AMD models, knowing that 90% of consumers will never know the difference. Intel will be advertising the total number of cores on the box. I doubt they will be specific saying 8+8.

Can advertise top performance, based on the big cores. Big cores. Are you following me? When pointing at performance in their advertising slides, they will be focusing on big cores alone and apps that usually don't go over 6-8 threads.

Can advertise exceptional efficiency, based on little cores. Little cores. Hope you are not already confused. When advertising efficiency, they will be doing it by focusing on usage scenarios where big cores are mostly siting idle. Like, light browsing, email reading, office stuff.

AMD can't touch that with only big cores. It will be winning in some heavily multithreaded benchmarks, but it will be losing in both efficiency and performance. No matter how much more efficient TSMC's 7nm is, or how much more efficient Zen 3 we can speculate it is over Intel designs (probably it isn't against Alder Lake), a big core can't drop it's power usage as low as a little core when for example siting idle or while throwing a game of Solitaire.

Because it's easy to write an article where the author will be pointing at the fact that the PC usually runs idle or at lower loads. Measuring total power consumption at a period of time, Intel CPUs will be ending up cheaper on the power bill. It's also easy to test some games or apps or run some single threaded benchmarks and show that Intel CPUs are faster. Intel still offers top IPC and top CPU frequencies, so AMD will have to do some magic, get a couple of years ahead of Intel just to come at parity. We have seen this in those last years. Oh, look, I was already explaining it. Probably you got confused before reaching this last part of the post.

Talking also about AMD's Ryzen 6000, only shows that you are afraid of Alder Lake. No matter that 24 vs 32 threads comment that shows zero understanding of CPUs, or you just pretend to not know because you have to write an anti-Intel post and 24 vs 32 can play as an argument I suppose. That broken 10nm also points to that direction also. Anti-Intel post.

Anyway, being an AMD fan, I could love Intel to fell on it's face and you coming with laughing smiles saying "I told you so". But Alder Lake looks good and AMD should find a cheaper way to fight future Intel CPUs. Intel found a way to lower production costs, by using little cores and at the same time maximize it's marketing advantage. AMD using V-Cache is a good way to increase performance, but unfortunately, V-cache, increases production cost. Does not lower it.

 

[Tardian]

This article/thread has the shit thread crapped out of it.

 

[AsRock]

Zero trust from user or from Microsoft (Microsoft have had little trust from many users since/from win 10)

Well what you expect when they said there would not be a windows 11 or what ever then do the opposite just like most companys do in fact today, just to get you buy in to some thing ( COUGH Samsung ).

 

[Tardian]

Well what you expect when they said there would not be a windows 11 or what ever then do the opposite just like most companys do in fact today, just to get you buy in to some thing ( COUGH Samsung ).

Microsoft confirms there will be no Windows 11

A new Windows era begins

www.techradar.com

Microsoft confirms there will be no Windows 11, May 9, 2015