System Name | AM5 |
---|---|
Processor | AMD Ryzen R9 7950X |
Motherboard | Asrock X670E Taichi |
Cooling | EK AIO Basic 360 |
Memory | Corsair Vengeance DDR5 5600 64 Gb - XMP1 Profile |
Video Card(s) | AMD Reference 7900 XTX 24 Gb |
Storage | Samsung Gen 4 980 1 TB / Samsung 8TB SSD |
Display(s) | Samsung 34" 240hz 4K |
Case | Fractal Define R7 |
Power Supply | Seasonic PRIME PX-1300, 1300W 80+ Platinum, Full Modular |
Sure extremely noticeable if I stop my game play, take a picture of the current scene, and then zoom in on plant pedals to be able to come on this forum and say, “Yup, just like I thought, markedly inferior to DLSS!”FSR is markedly inferior. It might get a 2.0 but improvements there are quite likely to follow what DLSS and XeSS are currently doing.
Wide support/adoption is a quality in itself but visually, there is a difference.
Processor | RYZEN 7 5800X3D |
---|---|
Motherboard | Aorus B-550I Pro AX |
Cooling | HEATKILLER IV PRO , EKWB Vector FTW3 3080/3090 , Barrow res + Xylem DDC 4.2, SE 240 + Dabel 20b 240 |
Memory | Viper Steel 4000 PVS416G400C6K |
Video Card(s) | EVGA 3080Ti FTW3 |
Storage | XPG SX8200 Pro 512 GB NVMe + Samsung 980 1TB |
Display(s) | Dell S2721DGF |
Case | NR 200 |
Power Supply | CORSAIR SF750 |
Mouse | Logitech G PRO |
Keyboard | Meletrix Zoom 75 GT Silver |
Software | Windows 11 22H2 |
Isn't DLSS already had AA effects built-in ?
Why doing the same thing twice ?
Or it is a cut down version of DLSS that focus on edges only so it is way easier to implement
System Name | Beaver's Build |
---|---|
Processor | AMD Ryzen 9 5950X |
Motherboard | Asus ROG Crosshair VIII Hero (WI-FI) - X570 |
Cooling | Corsair H115i RGB PLATINUM 97 CFM Liquid |
Memory | G.Skill Trident Z Neo 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory - 16-19-19-39 |
Video Card(s) | NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 Founders Edition |
Storage | Inland 1TB NVMe M.2 (Phison E12) / Samsung 950 Pro M.2 NVMe 512G / WD Black 6TB - 256M cache |
Display(s) | Alienware AW3225QF 32" 4K 240 Hz OLED |
Case | Fractal Design Design Define R6 USB-C |
Audio Device(s) | Focusrite 2i4 USB Audio Interface |
Power Supply | SuperFlower LEADEX TITANIUM 1600W |
Mouse | Razer DeathAdder V2 |
Keyboard | Razer Cynosa V2 (Membrane) |
Software | Microsoft Windows 10 Pro x64 |
Benchmark Scores | 3dmark = https://www.3dmark.com/spy/32087054 Cinebench R15 = 4038 Cinebench R20 = 9210 |
Sure extremely noticeable if I stop my game play, take a picture of the current scene, and then zoom in on plant pedals to be able to come on this forum and say, “Yup, just like I thought, markedly inferior to DLSS!”
System Name | AM5 |
---|---|
Processor | AMD Ryzen R9 7950X |
Motherboard | Asrock X670E Taichi |
Cooling | EK AIO Basic 360 |
Memory | Corsair Vengeance DDR5 5600 64 Gb - XMP1 Profile |
Video Card(s) | AMD Reference 7900 XTX 24 Gb |
Storage | Samsung Gen 4 980 1 TB / Samsung 8TB SSD |
Display(s) | Samsung 34" 240hz 4K |
Case | Fractal Define R7 |
Power Supply | Seasonic PRIME PX-1300, 1300W 80+ Platinum, Full Modular |
It is actually quite the opposite. It is a still image that needs more careful inspection, especially since it is viewed in web browser and without the same focus, attention and immersion that you have when actually playing. In actual game once your focus is up and you view actual scenes in motion, then it becomes abundantly clear how much less aliasing and shimmering DLSS has. Especially if you look at notoriously problematic things like hair, thin objects or distant landscape, all of that looks like twice the resolution with DLSS despite the fact that it is reconstructed from lower resolution, while FSR is simply going inherit all TAA issues and then make it worse through basic upscaling and sharpening it uses. The only place where FSR may be comparable are big close up objects with low complexity, because these are very easy to reconstruct and to remove aliasing from. For everything else, DLSS is always going to be miles ahead, as it should given light years technological difference between the two solutions.
My intention is not to hate on FSR, but how developers are supposed to treat players seriously if they cannot see the difference between cheap upscaler/sharpener and proper reconstruction. What you are essentially telling them is "We cannot see a damn thing anyway, so why give us any actual technology?"
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The Medium: DLSS vs. FSR Comparison Review
Originally, The Medium was an NVIDIA-sponsored game on PC, with support for DLSS only. Recently it has been updated to also support AMD's FidelityFX Super Resolution technology. In this mini-review we take a look and compare the image quality and performance offered by both solutions.www.techpowerup.com
Differences are minimal, 4K FSR Ultra Quality versus 4K DLSS Quality, unless zooming very far in. In gameplay the player will not know the difference.
System Name | AM5 |
---|---|
Processor | AMD Ryzen R9 7950X |
Motherboard | Asrock X670E Taichi |
Cooling | EK AIO Basic 360 |
Memory | Corsair Vengeance DDR5 5600 64 Gb - XMP1 Profile |
Video Card(s) | AMD Reference 7900 XTX 24 Gb |
Storage | Samsung Gen 4 980 1 TB / Samsung 8TB SSD |
Display(s) | Samsung 34" 240hz 4K |
Case | Fractal Define R7 |
Power Supply | Seasonic PRIME PX-1300, 1300W 80+ Platinum, Full Modular |
You have picked like the least favorable comparison for yourself out of all in the whole world. That net is TAA's and FSR's worst nightmare while it is exactly what DLSS excels at, reconstructing fine detail like that so well that it actually looks way better than native res TAA, let alone FSR that is just one big oversharpening artifact on top of already numerous native res TAA issues. I don't know if you are viewing it on a phone or 15" laptop or what, but if you cannot see the difference then I don't know what to tell you. That scene is so tailor cut for DLSS and the difference is so massive that you could almost accuse the author of cherrypicking the scene to favor DLSS, and you say there is no difference...
System Name | Beaver's Build |
---|---|
Processor | AMD Ryzen 9 5950X |
Motherboard | Asus ROG Crosshair VIII Hero (WI-FI) - X570 |
Cooling | Corsair H115i RGB PLATINUM 97 CFM Liquid |
Memory | G.Skill Trident Z Neo 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory - 16-19-19-39 |
Video Card(s) | NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 Founders Edition |
Storage | Inland 1TB NVMe M.2 (Phison E12) / Samsung 950 Pro M.2 NVMe 512G / WD Black 6TB - 256M cache |
Display(s) | Alienware AW3225QF 32" 4K 240 Hz OLED |
Case | Fractal Design Design Define R6 USB-C |
Audio Device(s) | Focusrite 2i4 USB Audio Interface |
Power Supply | SuperFlower LEADEX TITANIUM 1600W |
Mouse | Razer DeathAdder V2 |
Keyboard | Razer Cynosa V2 (Membrane) |
Software | Microsoft Windows 10 Pro x64 |
Benchmark Scores | 3dmark = https://www.3dmark.com/spy/32087054 Cinebench R15 = 4038 Cinebench R20 = 9210 |
I just got that same monitor a few days ago!My monitor?
LG UHD Monitor 27' 4K LED Nano IPS ... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08BCRYS6...imm_MTS3SH8VBDD8Q3E9G6G4?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
The differences are negligible. Neither is a nightmare, and both look similar even rendering the game on my desktop testing both on my 3090 and 6900 XT.
System Name | PCGOD |
---|---|
Processor | AMD FX 8350@ 5.0GHz |
Motherboard | Asus TUF 990FX Sabertooth R2 2901 Bios |
Cooling | Scythe Ashura, 2×BitFenix 230mm Spectre Pro LED (Blue,Green), 2x BitFenix 140mm Spectre Pro LED |
Memory | 16 GB Gskill Ripjaws X 2133 (2400 OC, 10-10-12-20-20, 1T, 1.65V) |
Video Card(s) | AMD Radeon 290 Sapphire Vapor-X |
Storage | Samsung 840 Pro 256GB, WD Velociraptor 1TB |
Display(s) | NEC Multisync LCD 1700V (Display Port Adapter) |
Case | AeroCool Xpredator Evil Blue Edition |
Audio Device(s) | Creative Labs Sound Blaster ZxR |
Power Supply | Seasonic 1250 XM2 Series (XP3) |
Mouse | Roccat Kone XTD |
Keyboard | Roccat Ryos MK Pro |
Software | Windows 7 Pro 64 |
The problem with DLSS is....like so many projects from big N, just temporary, something will come along that works on everything, some global tech that will just replace it.
And then you will be looking back at those silly DLSS games from 10 years ago which no current gpu actually supports anymore.
System Name | MightyX |
---|---|
Processor | Ryzen 5800X3D |
Motherboard | Gigabyte X570 I Aorus Pro WiFi |
Cooling | Scythe Fuma 2 |
Memory | 32GB DDR4 3600 CL16 |
Video Card(s) | Asus TUF RTX3080 Deshrouded |
Storage | WD Black SN850X 2TB |
Display(s) | LG 42C2 4K OLED |
Case | Coolermaster NR200P |
Audio Device(s) | LG SN5Y / Focal Clear |
Power Supply | Corsair SF750 Platinum |
Mouse | Corsair Dark Core RBG Pro SE |
Keyboard | Glorious GMMK Compact w/pudding |
VR HMD | Meta Quest 3 |
Software | case populated with Artic P12's |
Benchmark Scores | 4k120 OLED Gsync bliss |
Why would it need to last forever? It's meant for the here and now. Upscaling seems 100% here to stay and only going to increase, and Nvidia clearly have a big hand in paving the way forward. In 10 years time a current midrange GPU would obliterate any 2021 game and DLSS wouldn't be needed anyway.The problem with DLSS is....like so many projects from big N, just temporary, something will come along that works on everything, some global tech that will just replace it.
And then you will be looking back at those silly DLSS games from 10 years ago which no current gpu actually supports anymore.
Processor | Ryzen 7800X3D |
---|---|
Motherboard | ROG STRIX B650E-F GAMING WIFI |
Memory | 2x16GB G.Skill Flare X5 DDR5-6000 CL36 (F5-6000J3636F16GX2-FX5) |
Video Card(s) | INNO3D GeForce RTX™ 4070 Ti SUPER TWIN X2 |
Storage | 2TB Samsung 980 PRO, 4TB WD Black SN850X |
Display(s) | 42" LG C2 OLED, 27" ASUS PG279Q |
Case | Thermaltake Core P5 |
Power Supply | Fractal Design Ion+ Platinum 760W |
Mouse | Corsair Dark Core RGB Pro SE |
Keyboard | Corsair K100 RGB |
VR HMD | HTC Vive Cosmos |
Actually, it is mostly the other way around, in the few FSR titles I have played FSR introduces quite noticeable shimmering. Plus it has clear sharpening artefacts, whether that is something you like or something that bothers you seems to be very subjective.Sure extremely noticeable if I stop my game play, take a picture of the current scene, and then zoom in on plant pedals to be able to come on this forum and say, “Yup, just like I thought, markedly inferior to DLSS!”
The trick with DLSS, as well as XeSS and FSR is to do this in a very limited timeframe and in a way that would be temporally stable. Nvidia has said they target DLSS at doing what it does at 2160p in 1.5ms, less at lower resolutions. XeSS and FSR no doubt have similar targets.Adobe has an AI based super-resolution upscaling based enhancement in Photoshop. It resizes the image by 2x, but if you then downsize that image back to the original size using bicubic interpolation the resulting image is far more detailed in many cases. The difference can be huge and I use it for many of my images. I have a Sony 42MP camera and I'm amazed at how much more detail this can extract from and already very high quality image. It's similar to the pixel shift technology used by many camera companies now to increase resolution.
Nvidia is not doing anything original here IMO, but it is welcome in games.
AA is actually more dependent on PPI not resolution.I just got that same monitor a few days ago!
Going from 60 yo 144 Hz made a huge difference for me...
4K giving reduced reasons for AA, and 144 giving reduced reasons for V-Sync, imho
System Name | Bragging Rights |
---|---|
Processor | Atom Z3735F 1.33GHz |
Motherboard | It has no markings but it's green |
Cooling | No, it's a 2.2W processor |
Memory | 2GB DDR3L-1333 |
Video Card(s) | Gen7 Intel HD (4EU @ 311MHz) |
Storage | 32GB eMMC and 128GB Sandisk Extreme U3 |
Display(s) | 10" IPS 1280x800 60Hz |
Case | Veddha T2 |
Audio Device(s) | Apparently, yes |
Power Supply | Samsung 18W 5V fast-charger |
Mouse | MX Anywhere 2 |
Keyboard | Logitech MX Keys (not Cherry MX at all) |
VR HMD | Samsung Oddyssey, not that I'd plug it into this though.... |
Software | W10 21H1, barely |
Benchmark Scores | I once clocked a Celeron-300A to 564MHz on an Abit BE6 and it scored over 9000. |
If the devs implement DLSS and nvidia don't feed it into their DL supercomputer for training, then it's not really DLSS, is it? It just uses the same generic upsampling and filtering techniques like FSR and prior title-specific postprocessing filters use.The devs can implement DLSS, they don't need nvidia to do it, also 2.0 changed the way it works, there's no longer such a dependency on the AI supercomputers at nvidia headquarters. That's what i understood anyway,
You'll probably have launch games with DLSS that are nvidia branded and not on the ones that are AMD branded. The bi mounthly thing you mention is for older titles.
Processor | Ryzen 7800X3D |
---|---|
Motherboard | ROG STRIX B650E-F GAMING WIFI |
Memory | 2x16GB G.Skill Flare X5 DDR5-6000 CL36 (F5-6000J3636F16GX2-FX5) |
Video Card(s) | INNO3D GeForce RTX™ 4070 Ti SUPER TWIN X2 |
Storage | 2TB Samsung 980 PRO, 4TB WD Black SN850X |
Display(s) | 42" LG C2 OLED, 27" ASUS PG279Q |
Case | Thermaltake Core P5 |
Power Supply | Fractal Design Ion+ Platinum 760W |
Mouse | Corsair Dark Core RGB Pro SE |
Keyboard | Corsair K100 RGB |
VR HMD | HTC Vive Cosmos |
Based on what Nvidia has disclosed and what we know, DLSS is using an algorithm derived from machine-learning. Nvidia has said DLSS 2.0 is no longer trained per game which does not mean it is not machine learning, the resulting algorithm is simply more generic and applies well enough to games in general. The use of Tensor cores to run this thing also points at it being ML-derived.If the devs implement DLSS and nvidia don't feed it into their DL supercomputer for training, then it's not really DLSS, is it? It just uses the same generic upsampling and filtering techniques like FSR and prior title-specific postprocessing filters use.
System Name | The de-ploughminator Mk-II |
---|---|
Processor | i7 13700KF |
Motherboard | MSI Z790 Carbon |
Cooling | ID-Cooling SE-226-XT + Phanteks T30 |
Memory | 2x16GB G.Skill DDR5 7200Cas34 |
Video Card(s) | Asus RTX4090 TUF |
Storage | Kingston KC3000 2TB NVME |
Display(s) | 48" LG OLED C4 |
Case | Corsair 5000D Air |
Audio Device(s) | KEF LSX II LT speakers + KEF KC62 Subwoofer |
Power Supply | Corsair HX850 |
Mouse | Razor Death Adder v3 |
Keyboard | Razor Huntsman V3 Pro TKL |
Software | win11 |
If the devs implement DLSS and nvidia don't feed it into their DL supercomputer for training, then it's not really DLSS, is it? It just uses the same generic upsampling and filtering techniques like FSR and prior title-specific postprocessing filters use.
DLAA without DL is just regular AA, we already have about two decades of development covering a myriad of clever sampling/dynamic resolution/temporal/sharpened/edge-detecting combinations. FXAA or TXAA seem to be good enough for most people at modern HD resolutions and 60FPS framerates, so adding some proprietary garbage that only works properly once Nvidia have tuned the algorithm and bundled it into drivers is, IMO, not useful enough and too late to the party in almost every instance.
I think my beef with DLAA is in the naming, not the actual technology. Using the otherwise-wasted tensor cores to do something useful is good. Just call it TensorAA ffs. It has NOTHING to do with deep-learning if it's just making use of spare silicon to do a regular AA job.
System Name | The de-ploughminator Mk-II |
---|---|
Processor | i7 13700KF |
Motherboard | MSI Z790 Carbon |
Cooling | ID-Cooling SE-226-XT + Phanteks T30 |
Memory | 2x16GB G.Skill DDR5 7200Cas34 |
Video Card(s) | Asus RTX4090 TUF |
Storage | Kingston KC3000 2TB NVME |
Display(s) | 48" LG OLED C4 |
Case | Corsair 5000D Air |
Audio Device(s) | KEF LSX II LT speakers + KEF KC62 Subwoofer |
Power Supply | Corsair HX850 |
Mouse | Razor Death Adder v3 |
Keyboard | Razor Huntsman V3 Pro TKL |
Software | win11 |
FXAA with reshade is fine is closely comparable to SMAA imo and better performance. I even prefer the image quality myself, but as I said it's close. The text is more clear too for what it's worth.
SMAA vs FXAA
System Name | Bragging Rights |
---|---|
Processor | Atom Z3735F 1.33GHz |
Motherboard | It has no markings but it's green |
Cooling | No, it's a 2.2W processor |
Memory | 2GB DDR3L-1333 |
Video Card(s) | Gen7 Intel HD (4EU @ 311MHz) |
Storage | 32GB eMMC and 128GB Sandisk Extreme U3 |
Display(s) | 10" IPS 1280x800 60Hz |
Case | Veddha T2 |
Audio Device(s) | Apparently, yes |
Power Supply | Samsung 18W 5V fast-charger |
Mouse | MX Anywhere 2 |
Keyboard | Logitech MX Keys (not Cherry MX at all) |
VR HMD | Samsung Oddyssey, not that I'd plug it into this though.... |
Software | W10 21H1, barely |
Benchmark Scores | I once clocked a Celeron-300A to 564MHz on an Abit BE6 and it scored over 9000. |
Good enough to compensate for higher resolutions? No."FXAA and TXAA seem to be good enough" - said no gamer ever
Nvidia probably has trained its neural network well enough to create Skynet, now they are telling the tensor cores to destroy gamers in games first before carrying out real world domination.
System Name | RyzenGtEvo/ Asus strix scar II |
---|---|
Processor | Amd R5 5900X/ Intel 8750H |
Motherboard | Crosshair hero8 impact/Asus |
Cooling | 360EK extreme rad+ 360$EK slim all push, cpu ek suprim Gpu full cover all EK |
Memory | Corsair Vengeance Rgb pro 3600cas14 16Gb in four sticks./16Gb/16GB |
Video Card(s) | Powercolour RX7900XT Reference/Rtx 2060 |
Storage | Silicon power 2TB nvme/8Tb external/1Tb samsung Evo nvme 2Tb sata ssd/1Tb nvme |
Display(s) | Samsung UAE28"850R 4k freesync.dell shiter |
Case | Lianli 011 dynamic/strix scar2 |
Audio Device(s) | Xfi creative 7.1 on board ,Yamaha dts av setup, corsair void pro headset |
Power Supply | corsair 1200Hxi/Asus stock |
Mouse | Roccat Kova/ Logitech G wireless |
Keyboard | Roccat Aimo 120 |
VR HMD | Oculus rift |
Software | Win 10 Pro |
Benchmark Scores | 8726 vega 3dmark timespy/ laptop Timespy 6506 |
Your question is confusing.does this mean DLSS 2.0 will make more sense for 1080p gamers want to render higher? currently DLSS 2.0 only makes sense for 1440p and 4k gamers from what I understand. so this tech will make it worthwhile for 1080p wanting to scale up higher rez's?
@nguyen can you explain. its getting confusing as **** LOL
System Name | The de-ploughminator Mk-II |
---|---|
Processor | i7 13700KF |
Motherboard | MSI Z790 Carbon |
Cooling | ID-Cooling SE-226-XT + Phanteks T30 |
Memory | 2x16GB G.Skill DDR5 7200Cas34 |
Video Card(s) | Asus RTX4090 TUF |
Storage | Kingston KC3000 2TB NVME |
Display(s) | 48" LG OLED C4 |
Case | Corsair 5000D Air |
Audio Device(s) | KEF LSX II LT speakers + KEF KC62 Subwoofer |
Power Supply | Corsair HX850 |
Mouse | Razor Death Adder v3 |
Keyboard | Razor Huntsman V3 Pro TKL |
Software | win11 |
Good enough to compensate for higher resolutions? No.
Good enough compared to the best alternatives at any given resolution? Yes.
In an ideal world, AI is smart enough in realtime to know which parts of the image require VRS, MSAA, and TXAA. Nvidia's DLSS/DLAA isn't that AI, so until we get an actual inteligent frame-analysis AI that can apply enhancements on a per-frame basis, we're still living in the "generic postprocessing filter" era. Call it whatever name you want, it's not going to be a solution without compromise. The only good thing about DLAA is that tensor cores are horrendously under-utilised on consumer RTX cards, so giving them anything to do is a bonus.
- FXAA can't compensate for lack of resolution, but hides jaggies for free. It's better than no AA unless it's implemented so poorly that it also applies to the HUD/Text.
- TXAA does a much better job of maintaining detail but comes with a requirement for reasonably high framerates, and whilst cheap it's not free. 99% of cases it should be used if it's an option because the image quality improvements are significant for very little cost.