As if Things Weren't Bad Enough, China is Now Experiencing Power Shortages

[Chomiq]

It's not just China:

Insight: Soaring gas prices ripple through heavy industry, supply chains

Global record high natural gas prices are pushing some energy-intensive companies to curtail production in a trend that is adding to disruptions to global supply chains in some sectors such as food and could result in higher costs being passed on to their customers.

www.reuters.com

 

[TheLostSwede]

Is this for real, China care about the environment? Why don't go with nuclear instead of coal or another alternatives like wind and solar farms?

I guess you're not reading the news?

Why China is developing a game-changing thorium-fuelled nuclear reactor

China is poised to test a thorium-powered nuclear reactor in September, the world’s first since 1969. The theory is that this new molten-salt technology will be “safer” and “greener” than regular uranium…

www.france24.com

 

[neatfeatguy]

It's not just China:

Insight: Soaring gas prices ripple through heavy industry, supply chains

Global record high natural gas prices are pushing some energy-intensive companies to curtail production in a trend that is adding to disruptions to global supply chains in some sectors such as food and could result in higher costs being passed on to their customers.

www.reuters.com

Gasoline made a crazy jump in price, too. I thought it was nice to see gas was under $3.00 a few days ago. I didn't need to fill up my car, I had just done so the day or two before and the price at the station I went to that day was $2.99. A couple of days later I noticed gas by my work was at $2.74 and this was last Friday (9/24) in the afternoon as I was going home.

I didn't notice the price for gas yesterday because I went a slightly different route to work, so maybe it had jumped already but I just didn't know. However, I drive by the gas station today by my work and gas is at $3.14....seriously? How the hell does it just jump 30 cents in the span of 3-4 days?

 

[TheLostSwede]

Gasoline made a crazy jump in price, too. I thought it was nice to see gas was under $3.00 a few days ago. I didn't need to fill up my car, I had just done so the day or two before and the price at the station I went to that day was $2.99. A couple of days later I noticed gas by my work was at $2.74 and this was last Friday (9/24) in the afternoon as I was going home.

I didn't notice the price for gas yesterday because I went a slightly different route to work, so maybe it had jumped already but I just didn't know. However, I drive by the gas station today by my work and gas is at $3.14....seriously? How the hell does it just jump 30 cents in the span of 3-4 days?

It's what happens when everything we need in our daily lives are being traded on an international market. Much of it is speculation and not actual demand, which is the problem, as rich people and banks are gambling with other people's money, not only things like investments and pensions, but also the actual cost of goods we buy. For fuel there are also what can only be described as cartels that negotiate and agree on how much should be produced, so the price doesn't drop below a decided upon level if possible. However, it's apparently all legal and above board, so nothing that can be done about it until we come up with a new economic system that doesn't rely on money.

 

[Vayra86]

I mean cutting back on CO2 emission is great. Mass consumption of natural resources really needs to tone down a bit. Consumer less is good



I do not agree. Countries across the world had massive differences in how they responded to a pandemic. Some counties like Taiwan were barely affected. Can't blame the stupid ways of handling a pandemic when you have a huge amount of stupid aholes doing anti-science and anti-vaccine movements.

Yeah this totally looks like a well considered plan, doesn't it. I'm sure randomly shutting stuff down by force is the best way to be efficient.

Because the demand won't go away. This is not doing a thing for mass consumption, and I'm not sure what the point really is altogether. Could it be that Xi's let the power go to his head, at last? He was on that trajectory for a while now.

In the end what this is is simple bean counters doing the work. Gas shortage is a money problem.

I guess you're not reading the news?

Why China is developing a game-changing thorium-fuelled nuclear reactor

China is poised to test a thorium-powered nuclear reactor in September, the world’s first since 1969. The theory is that this new molten-salt technology will be “safer” and “greener” than regular uranium…

www.france24.com

This is a decade plan though, not gonna help them for gas problems today. They still need more coal, too.

 

[ValenOne]

Since when did protectionism become communism?

If that's the case, Trumps recent tariffs are communist.

No, that's absurd.

The protectionist policies can occur for both capitalist and communist systems. CCP's China 2025 and "Negative List of Market Access Restricted" are protectionist policies.

From https://tradebarrierindex.org
New Zealand's tariff score is 2.92
Australia's tariff score is 3.08
Japan's tariff score is 4.06
US's tariff score is 4.58

Germany's tariff score is 4.92
EU's tariff score is 4.92

China's tariff score is 6.8
South Korea's tariff score is 7.35 (there's a reason why South Korea is not a member of CPTPP).

Lower is better.

CCP complaints about Australia's new "Negative List of Market Access Restricted" targeting CCP companies when CCP has its "Negative List of Market Access Restricted" list.

Reciprocal trade is a simple concept to understand.

Your argument is naive.

 

[R-T-B]

Your argument is naive.

And your arguement is what exactly? You just established protectionism has nothing to do with being conmunist/capitalist as both systems can use protectionism, so I'm not sure why you think those scores defeat my point.

 

[ValenOne]

And your arguement is what exactly? You just established protectionism has nothing to do with being conmunist/capitalist as both systems can use protectionism, so I'm not sure why you think those scores defeat my point.

If you actually read CCP's "Negative List of Market Access Restricted" list, a private entity not being able to own land is communist and protectionist.

Real-world communism is just an extreme case of very big government.

 

[R-T-B]

If you actually read CCP's "Negative List of Market Access Restricted" list, a private entity not being able to own land is communist and protectionist.

That's one point I'll grant you but it's nothing in the overall picture (several south american nations lease land in a similar fashion rather than sell it). I also believe the list you are citing is not for citizens but outside foreign investment.

At any rate, it's irrelevant.

What part of communism allows private enterprise to operate? It's clear this is happening en-masse in China, and that's really where the argument ends.

 

[XiGMAKiD]

I guess you're not reading the news?

Why China is developing a game-changing thorium-fuelled nuclear reactor

China is poised to test a thorium-powered nuclear reactor in September, the world’s first since 1969. The theory is that this new molten-salt technology will be “safer” and “greener” than regular uranium…

www.france24.com

That's a good read thanks, if their endeavor bears fruit then electric vehicle is much more feasible than I thought

 

[ValenOne]

That's one point I'll grant you but it's nothing in the overall picture (several south american nations lease land in a similar fashion rather than sell it)

What part of communism allows private enterprise to operate? It's clear this is happening en-masse in China, and that's really where the argument ends.

FYI, Australia has both government leasehold and private land ownership. Name the several south American nations with 100% government lease. Be specific instead of generalizing the argument.

For China, foreign private enterprises can operate as per CCP's "Negative List of Market Access Restricted" list. China has a 100% government land lease.

CPTPP is enforcing WTO rules without promises exception (i.e. fixing the mistake done by the Clinton administration). Due to China's current protectionist policies, China's CPTPP application will fail i.e. both Japan and Australia will reject China's CPTPP application.

That's one point I'll grant you but it's nothing in the overall picture (several south american nations lease land in a similar fashion rather than sell it). I also believe the list you are citing is not for citizens but outside foreign investment.

China has a 100% government land lease for both foreign entities and its citizens.

IF Australian mining companies can't invest in China's mining industries (land-related), then the Australian government will apply reciprocal investment restrictions on CCP companies.

 

[TheLostSwede]

That's a good read thanks, if their endeavor bears fruit then electric vehicle is much more feasible than I thought

The reason why they're going with Thorium over Uranium is because they have plenty of it locally. As to what else it can be used for... Well...

This is a decade plan though, not gonna help them for gas problems today. They still need more coal, too.

Sure, but that wasn't the question I answered.

 

[R-T-B]

Name the several south American nations with 100% government lease. Be specific instead of generalizing the argument.

There aren't any specific instances of 100% I know of but that wasn't really a pillar of my arguement either beyond pointing out "so what?"

For China, foreign private enterprises can operate as per CCP's "Negative List of Market Access Restricted" list. China has a 100% government land lease.

You're dodging the point. There are chinese owned and stocked shareholder based companies. Just because they aren't land is irrelevant.

At any rate *I* certainly think this looks quite different from what we conventionally consider communism. You'll be hard pressed to convince me otherwise when compared to nations like the USSR, Chinas own past, etc.

 

[trog100]

china limits energy use.. the end result of all this is china makes less stuff.. less stuff mean prices will go up..

the west will have no choice but to pay these higher prices.. higher prices will mean the west buys less stuff..

this kind of reminds me of what the arabs did to oil prices near fifty years ago.. cut production and jacked up prices..

why should china keep making cheap stuff and polluting its own country when it dosnt have to..

limiting energy use is just a neat way of limiting production and jacking up prices.. its win win situation for china..

trog

 

[Ferd]

this kind of reminds me of what the arabs did to oil prices near fifty years ago.. cut production and jacked up prices..

And it reminds me of what happened after that

WAR

the west will have no choice but to pay these higher prices.. higher prices will mean the west buys less stuff..

It’s not like the west are handcuffed, again referring to the previous example you gave about ME , a lot of bad things can happen it doesn’t always end the way you concluded

 

[trog100]

And it reminds me of what happened after that

WAR


It’s not like the west are handcuffed, again referring to the previous example you gave about ME , a lot of bad things can happen it doesn’t always end the way you concluded

there are worse case scenarios.. war being one of them.. .. is the US stupid enough to start one.. possibly but hopefully not..

trog

 

[Vayra86]

there are worse case scenarios.. war being one of them.. .. is the US stupid enough to start one.. possibly but hopefully not..

trog

There is a good chance the world has become far too connected to really go to war and keep a straight face about it. The whole supply chain affair for example. Irony has it that China is suffering in equal measure but just on different resources instead of end user product. At the same time, they still lack technology and supply chains to do everything themselves especially in mission critical areas like chip production.

We need each other, is the simple fact and it should eventually lead to some form of balance. Xi is trying very hard to look like he doesn't need anyone else. And the US, too. Neither of them are credible.

There is also a growing group of global citizens that can easily oversee all the petty politics at play here and how pointless it really is. Wasteful, too. How long can we keep up that charade with climate change peeking around the corner? Its going to hit specific parts of the world in specific ways, killing resources or production options while creating them elsewhere. It always has and it already does.

 

[Why_Me]

There is a good chance the world has become far too connected to really go to war and keep a straight face about it. The whole supply chain affair for example. Irony has it that China is suffering in equal measure but just on different resources instead of end user product. At the same time, they still lack technology and supply chains to do everything themselves especially in mission critical areas like chip production.

We need each other, is the simple fact and it should eventually lead to some form of balance. Xi is trying very hard to look like he doesn't need anyone else. And the US, too. Neither of them are credible.

There is also a growing group of global citizens that can easily oversee all the petty politics at play here and how pointless it really is. Wasteful, too. How long can we keep up that charade with climate change peeking around the corner? Its going to hit specific parts of the world in specific ways, killing resources or production options while creating them elsewhere. It always has and it already does.

Global citizens & climate change. Straight out of the EU/Greta Thunberg handbook.

 

[Vayra86]

Global citizens & climate change. Straight out of the EU/Greta Thunberg handbook.

Not even thát up to speed on Greta, but the EU, sure. We've been the stage for two World Wars and learned something along the way. But its also the only trajectory that isn't completely filled with death & misery going forward. Things do run out. And you might also consider it a logical next step in human evolution, zooming out further. Let's face it, the good old left/right wing ideological battles are getting pretty old and boring right about now. Aren't they explored enough? Its clear we need elements from everything.

 

[Why_Me]

Not even thát up to speed on Greta, but the EU, sure. We've been the stage for two World Wars and learned something along the way. But its also the only trajectory that isn't completely filled with death & misery going forward. Things do run out. And you might also consider it a logical next step in human evolution, zooming out further. Let's face it, the good old left/right wing ideological battles are getting pretty old and boring right about now. Aren't they explored enough? Its clear we need elements from everything.

The EU has learned little since WW2. Other than the Brits, western Europe was a big non factor. The Germans went through western Europe like a hot knife through warm butter and what did the EU learn from that experience? Nothing by the looks of it. If you don't have a military then you're a pretender. If China was to invade Taiwan how much help would the EU be? In order to reach Taiwan you'd need a navy.

 

[Vayra86]

The EU has learned little since WW2. Other than the Brits, western Europe was a big non factor. The Germans went through western Europe like a hot knife through warm butter and what did the EU learn from that experience? Nothing by the looks of it. If you don't have a military then you're a pretender. If China was to invade Taiwan how much help would the EU be? In order to reach Taiwan you'd need a navy.

Oh but on that one we fully agree. Deterrence is everything. It may even be key to reaching the goals I mentioned in previous posts. Because that's when shooting is truly pointless.

 

[dicobalt]

The entire world has exported their manufacturing pollution to China. People grossly underestimate their personal energy consumption by forgetting about the energy needed to manufacture the things they use everyday. This is why China is so set on deploying new reactors and development of advanced reactors. We can blame Nixon for his decision to kill development of vital nuclear research programs in the 70s which set us back around 40 years worth of progress. Nixon is also the one who started trade with China in 1972 in a failed attempt to end a war by ending arms trafficking.

 

[ValenOne]

There aren't any specific instances of 100% I know of but that wasn't really a pillar of my arguement either beyond pointing out "so what?"


You're dodging the point. There are chinese owned and stocked shareholder based companies. Just because they aren't land is irrelevant.

At any rate *I* certainly think this looks quite different from what we conventionally consider communism. You'll be hard pressed to convince me otherwise when compared to nations like the USSR, Chinas own past, etc.

You're dodging the effects of CCP's state-owned land (refer to Market Access Negative List) is effectively protectionist policy. All mining companies in China are state-owned.

When my Australian federal government applied investment restrictions against CCP state-owned companies, CCP didn't like it (refer to 14 points complaint against the Australian government) while CCP has Market Access Negative List.

You don't know crap when my nation has a trade war against China!

 

[R-T-B]

You don't know crap when my nation has a trade war against China!

The USA doesn't?

 

[ValenOne]

The USA doesn't?

Has China blocked or throttle US's barley, beef, coal, wine, timber, lobster and 'etc'?

The U.S has imposed trade sanctions (e.g. tariff) on China due to CCP's failing to execute the promises made prior to WTO entry.

VS

1st. China has a Market Access Negative List that restricts foreign (and local) investments that is the by-product of its communist system.
2nd. Australia applies reciprocal investment restrictions on CCP state-owned companies.
3rd. China has imposed trade (goods) sanctions on Australia. Australia's goods trade to China across the affected commodities, including barley, beef, and coal has dropped by 78 percent. Australia has replaced China with alternative markets e.g. China's mass dam building has caused drought in the downstream countries, hence creating alternative markets for Australia. LOL