27 vs 36 decibel HDD

[Shrek]

double check : yep they're 7 orders of magnitude apart 0.06x7=0.42

7 times apart; 7 orders of magnitude is 10,000,000

 

[Valantar]

Air density 1.27 kg/m3

HDD dimensions: 14x10x26 = 0.00038602 cubic meter
if hard drive was entirely made of air, it would weight 0.4902454 grams
if it was all helium it would be 0.0656234 grams
double check : yep they're 7 times apart 0.06x7=0.42

difference between weight of air and helium in that volume : 0.424622

Ok, helium makes it half a gram lighter, so other components must be also different.
Anyway, from 12tb and up, a lot of things including acoustics change. We tend to think higher capacities are louder because they have more platters and arms; but it's not true once Helioseal enters the realm.


So this statement is disregarding Helium capability:

AFAIK (don't ask me about details, I don't know them) heluim drives use different platters and heads than conventional drives. There are plenty of possible reasons why: less drag on platters means less need for rotating mass to counteract drag-induced vibration; less drag means head designs can be different; less turbulence allows for different aerodynamics, tighter tolerances, etc. Lighter platters could also help explain the reduced power draw (alongside the lowered drag). And so on, and so on.

Either way, if you need significant storege space, I would very much recommend a NAS. Either DIY with TrueNAS or something similar (my choice, works amazingly well, low cost from spare/hand-me-down PC parts), or off the shelf. Place it out of the way and you don't have to worry about noise, and even cheap 2.5GbE is fast enough for HDD speeds. I use shucked external HDDs in my NAS, and some of them are very clicky and loud, but that doesn't matter when the NAS lives in a hallway cupboard.

 

[Shrek]

Which leads to an interesting question (for me at least)

The heads surf on a different medium (Helium) so I wonder what would happen if air did indeed leak in.

 

[Lei]

It becomes unusable. there's no filter hole and the lid is laser welded Opening Helium hard drive
There's no "do not cover this hole"

This blog from WD says that if they just empty the drive, the head will crash into the disk. And Hydrogen is flammable
Rise of Helium

It would be great if we could have an empty drive without crashing the head into the disk, don't mind density but sound would not be able to propagate. We'd never hear the head or any moving parts. Just tiny vibrations of hdd body. Please make it, at least it won't catch fire.

Which leads to an interesting question (for me at least)

The heads surf on a different medium (Helium) so I wonder what would happen if air did indeed leak in.

 

[Shrek]

Didn't realize it was welded; many thanks for the clarification.

However the video

shows screws, so there is still a possibility of leakage.

 

[claes]

So this statement is disregarding Helium capability:

With respect, having purchased dozens of helium drives to build NAS systems for others, it’s not. I am sure there are differences that affect noise, but the bigger you go the louder they get… Your own research verifies as much

Sure, a 12TB helium drive is quieter than a traditional 12TB drive, but they’re both still louder than 8TB drives at the same rpm, and 16TB are louder still, which was my caveat — I think your setup would be quieter with two 8TB drives rather than a single 16TB drive. Maybe the spec sheets will prove me wrong, but that’s just my experience. :shrug:

 

[Valantar]

With respect, having purchased dozens of helium drives to build NAS systems for others, it’s not. I am sure there are differences that affect noise, but the bigger you go the louder they get… Your own research verifies as much

Sure, a 12TB helium drive is quieter than a traditional 12TB drive, but they’re both still louder than 8TB drives at the same rpm, and 16TB are louder still, which was my caveat — I think your setup would be quieter with two 8TB drives rather than a single 16TB drive. Maybe the spec sheets will prove me wrong, but that’s just my experience. :shrug:

Spec sheets are hardly exhaustive though. dBA measurements might be comparable, but are the conditions of measurement the same? Distance, direction, type and sensitivity of the measurement device, etc. - are those standardized between manufacturers? If not, the numbers are only internally comparable. Then there's the question of frequency and how human hearing sensitivity isn't linear across the audible frequency spectrum - and some frequencies are just more annoying than others, regardless of volume. I've long since stopped putting any trust in dBA measurements for this reason - without strict standardization, the numbers are meaningless at best, misleading at worst.

 

[repman244]

The helium drives started with 8TB I think (Hitachi He8), but I'm not sure if they still make them.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Helium is 7 times lighter than air

While true, this is NOT a factor in the weight of drives. There just is not enough "empty space" (for lack of a better term) inside a drive that is filled with gas (air or helium) to affect the weight of a drive.

HDD dimensions: 14x10x2.6 = 0.00038602 cubic meter
if hard drive was entirely made of air, it would weight 0.4902454 grams
if it was all helium it would be 0.0656234 grams
double check : yep they're 7 times apart 0.06x7=0.42

difference between weight of air and helium in that volume : 0.424622

Ok, helium makes it half a gram lighter

None of this makes any sense. The volume of the entire drive (external dimensions) is not a factor in this discussion. And the "empty space" inside a hard drive is so insignificant, discussing weights at all makes no sense.

As seen by this weight per volume calculator,

1 inch³ air = 21.19 milligram (mg)​

1 inch³ helium = 2.93 mg (confirming the x 7 difference)​

1/2 gram = 500mg.

The weight of the drive indicated by the OP in post #44 above is .66kg. That's 660 grams. It takes almost 4 meter³ of helium to make up that much weight. 500mg of helium would take up over 3 meter³. If anyone has ever worked with concrete, they would know 3 "yards" of concrete would make a lot of sidewalk!

I doubt there is even 1 inch³ of empty space inside a drive - certainly not enough empty space inside a drive (let alone exterior volume) so that it is 1/2 gram (500 milligrams) lighter just because it is helium vs air.

I just heard [barely!] a car rolling down the street. That was only because the TV in the other room is turned off. I still cannot hear the 2 computers in this room with their 4 case fans, 2 CPU fans, 2 PSU fans, and 2 GPU fans running. Okay, these computers both have SSDs, but I think my point is sound (pun intended).

 

[lexluthermiester]

Either way, if you need significant storege space, I would very much recommend a NAS.

Some people want a big drive to put in their PC, not a big box of drives they have to find a place for, set up and configure. There are many things to be said about the ease of "plug & play".

 

[Lei]

The helium drives started with 8TB I think (Hitachi He8), but I'm not sure if they still make them.

 

[Ruru]

Personally I'd say that any HDD is too noisy. But decibels are also marketing and can you really trust what the manufacturer says?

Probably a louder drive would still be tolerable as we don't have those hella noisy drives like in the 80s and 90s had.

 

[Valantar]

Some people want a big drive to put in their PC, not a big box of drives they have to find a place for, set up and configure. There are many things to be said about the ease of "plug & play".

I would say a key point of a NAS is that that "box of drives" isn't big at all. Most off-the-shelf units are tiny, with a decent diy solution only being marginally larger. Off-the-shelf units are also very easy to configure. I can understand not wanting the extra hardware and config, but IMO the benefits far outweigh the hassle. Hence my recommendation. And as the OP is clearly somewhat worried about noise, it seems like a no-brainer to me.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I would say a key point of a NAS is that that "box of drives" isn't big at all.

It's still more complicated and expensive than most people care to deal with. A large drive is easy to install buy, easy to install, easy to use and fits into an existing PC. NAS is not a great option for most users.

 

[Valantar]

It's still more complicated and expensive than most people care to deal with. A large drive is easy to install buy, easy to install, easy to use and fits into an existing PC. NAS is not a great option for most users.

But a 16TB drive isn't a great option for most users either - ridiculously expensive, stores so much data that any loss would be catastrophic, etc. So the OP here is clearly not "most users". That is not the premise for this discussion. As storage needs increase, so do data management needs - and often also data access needs/wants. Keeping your main PC (which is typically quite powerful and likely not very efficient) turned on 24/7 for data access from other devices is pretty stupid compared to something made for that purpose. Sure, there are cases where the data is only ever accessed from one device by one user and they still need that much space, but I'd say that's reasonably rare compared to more varied use cases. To each their own, but IMO, once you get to a point where a >10TB drive makes sense to you, keeping that drive in your main PC is likely to also have significant downsides, and you're likely to see some value in the additional features a NAS can bring to the table.

 

[lexluthermiester]

But a 16TB drive isn't a great option for most users either - ridiculously expensive

Um..

Toshiba 16TB Enterprise HDD SATA 6.0Gb/s 512e 7200 RPM 512MB Cache 3.5" Internal Hard Drive MG08ACA16TE - Newegg.com

Buy Toshiba 16TB Enterprise HDD SATA 6.0Gb/s 512e 7200 RPM 512MB Cache 3.5" Internal Hard Drive MG08ACA16TE with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

www.newegg.com

You were saying?

stores so much data that any loss would be catastrophic, etc.

You are arguing a "what-if" again as if drives fail that often. Drive failures are rare in performance consumer drives and for enterprise drives even more rare when in consumer use. Not a good argument.

That is not the premise for this discussion.

You're right, it's not. The topic of discussion is the sound levels of the drives the OP is interested in as they have already decided to get one large drive. So can we have done with the off-topic jibber-jabber?

On that note.

@Lei
The above linked Toshiba drive has a spec of 20db which would meet your desire to have a quiet drive with large capacity & good performance.

https://toshiba.semicon-storage.com/content/dam/toshiba-ss-v2/master/en/storage/product/data-center-enterprise/ehdd-mg08_product-overview_rev.3.pdf

https://toshiba.semicon-storage.com/content/dam/toshiba-ss-v2/master/en/storage/product/data-center-enterprise/ehdd_mg08_product-manual_rev.3.pdf

This drive seems like a great option for what you want.

 

[Shrek]

We all know Helium changes the pitch of peoples voices; is the same true for noise made in the drive? The human ear is more sensitive to higher pitch.

Do most drives still have the AAM (Automatic Acoustic Management) setting so they can be quietened?

 

[Valantar]

We all know Helium changes the pitch of peoples voices; is the same true for noise made in the drive? The human ear is more sensitive to higher pitch.

Do most drives still have the AAM (Automatic Acoustic Management) setting so they can be quietened?

If so, I doubt it's noticeable as all the noise will be passing through an intermediary material (the metal casing of the drive), and might not even pass meaningfully through helium at all given the tiny amount + noise source (motor) being directly coupled to the metal casing. In the case of your voice, your vocal cords cause vibrations to propagate within and through the helium, which again pass into other surrounding gases as the noise leaves your mouth. That's very different from how HDD noise is created and propagates.

Um..

Toshiba 16TB Enterprise HDD SATA 6.0Gb/s 512e 7200 RPM 512MB Cache 3.5" Internal Hard Drive MG08ACA16TE - Newegg.com

Buy Toshiba 16TB Enterprise HDD SATA 6.0Gb/s 512e 7200 RPM 512MB Cache 3.5" Internal Hard Drive MG08ACA16TE with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

www.newegg.com

You were saying?

That's cheap /GB, but ... it's a $320 HDD. That's a lot of money unless you're pretty well off. Any storage device above $200 starts to hurt in my world.

You are arguing a "what-if" again as if drives fail that often. Drive failures are rare in performance consumer drives and for enterprise drives even more rare when in consumer use. Not a good argument.

No, I'm mentioning that as one of many potential benefits of NAS use, and a generally useful rule of thumb that the higher the amount of data you're storing, the more you'll lose if it fails, and thus the more care you should take to prevent this. That obviously isn't a universally applicable statement - even 100MB of priceless photos of a deceased loved one can be a tragic loss, after all - but the more data, the higher the chance that it's valuable to you overall (and even if it's replaceable, the more hassle doing so will be).

You're right, it's not. The topic of discussion is the sound levels of the drives the OP is interested in as they have already decided to get one large drive. So can we have done with the off-topic jibber-jabber?

On that note.

@Lei
The above linked Toshiba drive has a spec of 20db which would meet your desire to have a quiet drive with large capacity good performance.

https://toshiba.semicon-storage.com/content/dam/toshiba-ss-v2/master/en/storage/product/data-center-enterprise/ehdd-mg08_product-overview_rev.3.pdf

https://toshiba.semicon-storage.com/content/dam/toshiba-ss-v2/master/en/storage/product/data-center-enterprise/ehdd_mg08_product-manual_rev.3.pdf

This drive seems like a great option for what you want.

Well, the argument that "a drive in a NAS in a cupboard/other room won't bother you no matter its noise level" still addresses this concern, which is why it was brought up in the first place. Yet another benefit of NAS use. Presenting the OP with insight on alternative solutions that might address their concerns is generally a good thing, no?

Also, you're making the same previously pointed out mistake of assuming that dBA measurements are comparable - we know neither the equipment, measurement distance, or frequency spectrum of the noise, which makes it at best useful as a ballpark estimate. How it sounds when mounted in a case (with interactions between vibration and resonant frequencies etc.) further complicates this.

 

[Shrek]

In the case of your voice, your vocal cords cause vibrations to propagate within and through the helium, which again pass into other surrounding gases as the noise leaves your mouth. That's very different from how HDD noise is created and propagates.

I was picturing the arms vibrating and a thud becoming a dink; but the picture may be all wrong.

 

[Valantar]

I was picturing the arms vibrating and a thud becoming a dink; but the picture may be all wrong.

I would assume that noise propagates something like arms -> actuator assembly -> casing -> air, so I doubt the helium would affect that meaningfully - though I guess the lower density of the gas might cause the 'dink' to be slightly different in terms of frequency. I'd assume the metal and construction of the arm to have a greater determining effect on that, but I might be wrong. I don't think I've ever heard a "thud" from a HDD

 

[Shrek]

I am also at a bit of a loss as to the mechanism; but I recall drives that thud, but it may have been an old SCSI drive.

 

[Bill_Bright]

It's still more complicated and expensive than most people care to deal with.

Maybe, maybe not.

A NAS can be 1 drive in an enclosure that connects via Ethernet. Or it can be many drives in an enclosure configured in all sorts of different RAID arrays. Or can simply be a spare PC on your network with shared drives.

 

[claes]

I don’t know why so many people are trying to convince @Lei that they aren’t hearing the things they’re hearing, so much so that they started a thread about that noise driving (harr, harr) their purchasing decisions, but hey, keep on fighting the good fight, maybe you’ll convince them that they’re delusional.

That said, @Lei is either over evaluating this decision (much respect, genuinely), or trolling us (I hope not!). Lei — you will not find answers in PRs, data sheets (20dB at idle for that Toshoba drive, but no seek measurements? Lol), or trying to become a sound scientist (believe me, I’ve tried ). I’d just buy the drive and see how you feel about it. Run some checks on it, and see how it sounds — you can always return it if you don’t like the noise or it doesn’t pass your preferred checks.

Noise is subjective, not objective — as you’ve noticed, most users on this forum don’t actually care about noise at all as long as it works, and will even denigrate you for having more sensitive hearing than they do (lot of olds on this forum), and isn’t it odd that a much more mechanically complicated drive is quoted at idle to be quieter than a less complicated drive, but louder when in use? Density matters, and not just that of the gas surrounding it. More platters = more noise.

The “power” of noise (dB) doesn’t account for dozens of other perceptions, which are all subjective and incalculable. You won’t know until you try and, even then, others experiences won’t align with yours. I’d say go for a swim and see how the water feels!

 

[Bill_Bright]

I don't think you, claes, have assessed the replies properly. Nobody suggested the noise is not there. Only that the differences mentioned are not likely to be that significant, if significant at all.

Noise is subjective, not objective

Not true at all. Noise is subjective and objective. Yes, it is a matter of opinion as to how annoying noise it. But noise can be measured (and calculable)with test equipment too. So therefore, subjective and objective.

most users on this forum don’t actually care about noise at all as long as it works,

I don't know about most. I for one, hate fan noise, for example. I really hate it. I am not a fan (no pun intended) of drive motor noise either - another reason to go SSD.

 

[Xeon]

I have 4 of those helium filled hgst hdd's on one of my systems, and they are as loud as any other 7K drives. I measure around 38 DB's with my phone next to them...for what is worth.