Thermaltake TOUGHFAN 12 and TOUGHFAN 12 Turbo Fans

[Valantar]

I think not.

Why not? Are people with unconscious biases acting against their own better knowledge? Are they consciously lying or misrepresenting the truth, even slightly? No. They are acting or speaking in accordance with what they believe is right and true. Thus, they are acting honestly. Honesty has a very tangential relation to factual accuracy, representational accuracy, or any other claim to truth.

Cheats don't feel honest, or do they? I have never seen it used in this context. Have you read brave new world or something?

Can't say I have. And yes, this is an extreme example. But that's the point: honesty can be defined entirely subjectively, and is a highly relational thing. Even what factors into honesty in any specific situation is extremely variable. Asking for honesty has zero effect on unconscious bias, on self-delusion, on misinformed beliefs, or other skewing factors. Thus it is ineffectual and irrelevant in this context.

Also, I never said cheats necessarily feel honest. But it is absolutely possible for someone duplicitous in some way to feel honest because their actions are in accordance with some other goal or knowledge, despite the actions on a more local level (whether that is speech or something else) being dishonest. The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive - that too is subjective.

No, honesty implies humility which is the opposite of pride which is a virtue, but corrupt. When you are honest, you are implying not your virtue, but selflessness of it.
I see you haven't played ultima.

What? That is an extremely selective and specific understanding of the term. If that's what you read into it that is obviously perfectly fine, but you're just underscoring my point: what "honest" mean is highly subjective. There is nothing at all in the term "honest" that necessarily includes humility or the lack of pride. Not whatsoever. You can very well connect the two, and believe there is a strong general connection (I don't necessarily disagree with that myself, but I dont' see that belief as anything resembling universal), but you can in no way make any claim for that being an innate and inextricable part of the term. And if you by default expect others to understand it in the same way, then you're setting yourself up for trouble. There is no necessary relation between honesty and humility or selflessness. Not whatsoever. Is someone wrongly accused in court, who then defends themselves, not honest? Is someone accurately and truthfully reporting a crime that there's a reward for information about not honest? Of course they are. The possibility for corruption and dishonesty is obviously there in both cases (we can't know or even assume that either behaviour is honest by default), but there is absolutely no direct, causal, 1:1 link between the two as you are claiming.

 

[VSG]

Getting off-topic now, guys.

 

[mtcn77]

Is someone wrongly accused in court, who then defends themselves, not honest?

Yes, because in this example they are not honest - since this isn't a question about honesty, but 'justice' and you are trying to plant a loaded question in the wrong context.
I told you you haven't played ultima. You haven't conceptualised and differentiated honesty and justice from each other and are in a primordial stage in your avatarhood.

 

[Deleted member 67555]

I would definitely like to see these with the TT Halo RGB in the future...imo TT Halo's are the best look for a fan.
I don't really see the price being an issue.
I honestly wish TT would offer some of it's connecters as a $1 mail to me option.
They can overwhelm you at times with the extra screws and 30" cables...

 

[Valantar]

Yes, because in this example they are not honest - since this isn't a question about honesty, but 'justice' and you are trying to plant a loaded question in the wrong context.
I told you you haven't played ultima. You haven't conceptualised and differentiated honesty and justice from each other and are in a primordial stage in your avatarhood.

Ah, yes, Ultima, the absolute peak of human philosophy ....

 

[mtcn77]

Ah, yes, Ultima, the absolute peak of human philosophy ....

Yes, instead unconsciously confusing different concepts with each other is. Return to monke.

 

[Yttersta]

I'll look into whether I can use my headphones/earphones frequency response measurement rigs to generate something tangible for the future, and may also include audio recordings for fans if that interests you. Let me know in the comments section what you think!

Yes! Please, yes. It's half of the plate when it comes to noise measures, pressure is but one metric and without pitch and variance measures it doesn't mean as much!

Pitch is the obvious one but variance is very important as well. Obviously, we can't expect you to keep a test chamber per fan for their entire mtbf lifespan to measure the variance in day 0 compared to the used stages. But at least a variance measure of 30 seconds per each rpm level in, for instance, clear air and against a radiator would mean a whole lot more.

Variance in amplitude and pitch along with pressure and pitch would make it complete for me.

I look forward to the future tests!

 

[mtcn77]

Obviously, we can't expect you to keep a test chamber per fan for their entire mtbf lifespan

It is unnecessary since hub type is a known variable in fan noise. For instance, ball bearings are susceptible to damage from falls and sleeve bearings are quiet at first and make more noise when they start to wear.

 

[Franzen4Real]

On that note: any plans for testing the Arctic P12/P14? Would love to see them compared to these. At ⅓-½ the price of most high end fans but reportedly similar in performance and noise to the NF-A12x25 these are really interesting. I'm extremely happy with my P14s at least.

I had 6- P12's and 2- P14's in my current O11 Mini case. I just swapped to A12x25's for case fans but left the P14's on the radiator. I left all of my fan curve rpm settings the same, and found a nice improvement in the amount of air pushing through the case. I think at lower speeds the P12/14 is better suited for static pressure against a rad or cooler, than it is as an airflow case fan. Also, all of my P12's make the same motor/bearing noise in a narrow rpm window between 900-1000 rpm. That is now gone with the A12x25's in their place. But below that rpm range, to me they sound the same.

On topic of the product being reviewed, I was unwilling to support and purchase the Toughfan as I felt it was a pretty blatant and shameless copy. To each their own, that was just my stance. However if there is one thing that the TT's did do very well, it was getting the real line of Chromax A12x25 to be released in very short order, after 2 years of delays claiming 'Sterrox can not be dyed different colors'. Strange how quickly that magical recipe was discovered...

 

[owen10578]

Can we get a maximum fan speed comparison charts next time? Makes fans with higher fan speeds pointless otherwise.

 

[mtcn77]

Can we get a maximum fan speed comparison charts next time? Makes fans with higher fan speeds pointless otherwise.

Majorhardware did an awesome anemometer test with radiators recently. However the test results were lackluster, axial performers were worse off on a radiator push setup, obviously.

 

[DanglingPointer]

Arctic F12, P12 and F14, P14 reviews would be good.

 

[VSG]

Arctic F12, P12 and F14, P14 reviews would be good.

Just so this doesn't keep coming up: Arctic Cooling never got back to my multiple requests. Many have offered to pay for retail samples, which is great, but given my current backlog, I'd rather focus on products provided by interested companies first. Maybe later when I get more time, fan reviews take a very long time to do right unfortunately.

 

[Valantar]

Just so this doesn't keep coming up: Arctic Cooling never got back to my multiple requests. Many have offered to pay for retail samples, which is great, but given my current backlog, I'd rather focus on products provided by interested companies first. Maybe later when I get more time, fan reviews take a very long time to do right unfortunately.

Well that sucks. Hopefully they change their minds!

 

[Yttersta]

It is unnecessary since hub type is a known variable in fan noise. For instance, ball bearings are susceptible to damage from falls and sleeve bearings are quiet at first and make more noise when they start to wear.

Not necessary indeed! But not all fans wear out the same. Noctua's A12's have got 3 times the MTBF of these Thermaltake fans for instance. I would have loved to see how that difference shows up in the data over time.

I mean, 3 times the price for slightly better performance is no way a good deal, but for 3 times the life? I would say it might be well worth it.

 

[DanglingPointer]

Not necessary indeed! But not all fans wear out the same. Noctua's A12's have got 3 times the MTBF of these Thermaltake fans for instance. I would have loved to see how that difference shows up in the data over time.

I mean, 3 times the price for slightly better performance is no way a good deal, but for 3 times the life? I would say it might be well worth it.

Arctic's PWM P12's have 10years warranty with similar performance and noise and 1/5th the price!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Dredi]

Arctic's PWM P12's have 10years warranty with similar performance and noise and 1/5th the price!!!!!!!!!!!

Except that they whine like no one has ever seen in some rpm ranges. I guess the new versions with a ball bearing work better, but have a slightly higher noise floor.

In their price range they are pretty good.

 

[caroline!]

Erm noctua stole the design from Nideq/Scythe.

noctua is overrated.

Noctua is one of the Apple(s) of PC parts, people who buy from them mostly pay for the brand to boast about how fat their wallets and e-peens are, without caring too much about the actual products.
Dare to tell a N fanboy there's something better and he'll start spamming insults under any and all comments you write.

 

[DanglingPointer]

Except that they whine like no one has ever seen in some rpm ranges. I guess the new versions with a ball bearing work better, but have a slightly higher noise floor.

In their price range they are pretty good.

You can't see a whine, it is something heard!

Almost all fans have a whine when you play and record a frequency range as the rpm goes up. You can check and listen to the whines at specific rpm ranges in many youtube reviews. You can also check Igors lab. It isn't that bad with Arctic's, it is much better than many RGB rubbish fans out there that cost an arm and a leg! And it is definitely better with the "whine" tone and sound pressure amount compared to other non-RGB fans that are more expensive.

Whine is from a harmony of the rpm rhythm with the fans plastic molecular resonance properties causing an amplification that can be heard. All materials have resonance qualities. Noctua has solved this problem with sterox polymer which has resonance qualities that are not reached or reachable by the RPM range it runs in.

 

[Dredi]

You can't see a whine, it is something heard!

True

Almost all fans have a whine when you play and record a frequency range as the rpm goes up. You can check and listen to the whines at specific rpm ranges in many youtube reviews. You can also check Igors lab. It isn't that bad with Arctic's, it is much better than many RGB rubbish fans out there that cost an arm and a leg! And it is definitely better with the "whine" tone and sound pressure amount compared to other non-RGB fans that are more expensive.

Whine is from a harmony of the rpm rhythm with the fans plastic molecular resonance properties causing an amplification that can be heard. All materials have resonance qualities. Noctua has solved this problem with sterox polymer which has resonance qualities that are not reached or reachable by the RPM range it runs in.

And that’s why one buys noctua, unless one is on a tight budget. Btw the whine on arctic fans comes from the bearing (and is then propagated to the blades, I assume), as the more expensive ball bearing versions do not share that ’feature’.

Arctic fans are very good in their price range.

 

[Valantar]

Except that they whine like no one has ever seen in some rpm ranges. I guess the new versions with a ball bearing work better, but have a slightly higher noise floor.

In their price range they are pretty good.

I wish I had tested out the P12s I bought by mistake before I returned them and got my P14s, as I keep wondering what that noise sounds like. My P14s aren't whiny at all in any RPM range, and I'm typically very sensitive to these types of noises (and my home office is pretty quiet overall).

 

[mechtech]

Toughfan................did you do any tests to see how tough it is? Shear, tension, torsion, charpy, compression, ??

 

[VSG]

Toughfan................did you do any tests to see how tough it is? Shear, tension, torsion, charpy, compression, ??

It better have a tough skin to deal with all the complaints about copying!

 

[Valantar]

It better have a tough skin to deal with all the complaints about copying!

More like they make you look tough as you're flaunting your use of stolen property

 

[Yttersta]

Arctic's PWM P12's have 10years warranty with similar performance and noise and 1/5th the price!!!!!!!!!!!

I've been using P120s in my system for a year or so now, right because of that! However, the reason why I'm talking of noise testing beyond solely sound pressure measures is because of these fans. Out of the 6 I have, 2 have very annoying harmonics whence RPM levels are matched among all 6. It is a varying, uneven noise and it is distracting.

Noctuas have a far less variability among the same models of fans in my experience, as I had 6 NF-F12s before the P120s and my best friend right now has as many Noctua A12s. Neither with the F12s nor with the A12s have we heard such variability; in other words, if you match all to 40% or 60% or alike, they won't have as differing harmonics, which results in a less unpleasing fan noise.

But I got 6 fans for the price of 2 A12s :-D So eh, worth it I'd say.