Windows 10 & Intel Core i9-12900K Alder Lake Performance

[Shatun_Bear]

Yeah not upgrading to W11 until at least 2023.

And now is not the best time to jump into Intel's new hybrid arch experiment, I'll see where they're at after they've ironed out the kinks comes the 3rd generation of E and P cores.

 

[Mescalamba]

How can I switch to Windows 10 LTSC?

Requires clean install and keys for specific version. I wouldnt do it now cause there should be 2021 LTSC hopefully before end of year. Fair warning, these versions are not made for general public use and might require some googling and a bit of general Windows OS knowhow.

Well at least there isn't any major differences between the 2 OS's. FPS pretty much inline.


Is there going to be a Win 11 LTSC version?

Yes, rather soon. Should follow release of 2021 Win 10 LTSC or maybe they release them together. But I wouldnt try to deploy it without testing, Win 11 seems quite beta atm.

 

[Ruszli]

Would love to see multitasking tested. Based on the following article, there are a lot of potential issues on Windows 10 in real world use cases: "Streamers beware: Intel's 12th Gen CPUs and Windows 10 aren't friends" on Yahoo.

 

[ARF]

Yeah not upgrading to W11 until at least 2023.

And now is not the best time to jump into Intel's new hybrid arch experiment, I'll see where they're at after they've ironed out the kinks comes the 3rd generation of E and P cores.

By 2023, there will Windows 12 be already in the works

 

[Wirko]

By 2023, there will Windows 12 be already in the works

Unless Microsoft promises Windows 11 will be the last version ever!

 

[arni-gx]

oh, yesss, for 2022 => win 11 + i7 and i9 alder lake + 64gb ddr5 + rtx 4080-4090 = it is the future of pc dekstop for gaming......

 

[ARF]

oh, yesss, for 2022 => win 11 + i7 and i9 alder lake + 64gb ddr5 + rtx 4080-4090 = it is the future of pc dekstop for gaming......

No, the future of PC desktop for gaming is Windows 10 + Ryzen 9 Zen 4 + 32 GB DDR4-3600 + Radeon RX 7800 XT.

 

[birdie]

Strangely in many benchmarks Windows 10 comes on top with a significant lead, e.g. wPrime, Database benches, . Shows that the scheduler in Windows 11, despite being new and supporting ADL, is not yet fully optimized. I'm still 99% sure Windows 10 will get proper ADL support sooner or later considering the OS will be supported at the very least until 2029. Overall Windows 10 looks OK aside from certain tasks which could be modified to properly utilitize all the cores under it.

@W1zzard

If you have nothing else to benchmark, please consider an IPC benchmark of several past generations of Intel and AMD CPUs - all running at ~ 3GHz.

E.g.

• ADL: p-cores and e-cores separately
• RKL
• TGL (yes, would be nice if you got a TGL laptop with e.g. 1165G7)
• Comet Lake
• Just for fun any actual SkyLake CPU, e.g. 6700K
• Just for fun ... Sandy Bridge 2500K
• Zen 3
• Zen 3 mobile (e.g. 5600U/5800U)
• Zen 3 APUs
• Zen 2
• Zen 2 mobile (e.g. 4700U/5700U)

Since this will be a single core/thread benchmark, would be nice if you showed how many watts each CPU of these generations consumes at full load at 3GHz and its maximum allowed nominal frequency.

 

[Richards]

Alder will perform even better.. when tge software gets even more optimized for alder lake & raptor lake

Strangely in many benchmarks Windows 10 comes on top with a significant lead, e.g. wPrime, Database benches, . Shows that the scheduler in Windows 11, despite being new and supporting ADL, is not yet fully optimized. I'm still 99% sure Windows 10 will get proper ADL support sooner or later considering the OS will be supported at the very least until 2029. Overall Windows 10 looks OK aside from certain tasks which could be modified to properly utilitize all the cores under it.

@W1zzard

If you have nothing else to benchmark, please consider an IPC benchmark of several past generations of Intel and AMD CPUs - all running at ~ 3GHz.

E.g.

• ADL: p-cores and e-cores separately
• RKL
• TGL (yes, would be nice if you got a TGL laptop with e.g. 1165G7)
• Comet Lake
• Just for fun any actual SkyLake CPU, e.g. 6700K
• Just for fun ... Sandy Bridge 2500K
• Zen 3
• Zen 3 mobile (e.g. 5600U/5800U)
• Zen 3 APUs
• Zen 2
• Zen 2 mobile (e.g. 4700U/5700U)

Since this will be a single core/thread benchmark, would be nice if you showed how many watts each CPU of these generations consumes at full load at 3GHz and its maximum allowed nominal frequency.

Anantech already did that

 

[bug]

Strangely in many benchmarks Windows 10 comes on top with a significant lead, e.g. wPrime, Database benches, . Shows that the scheduler in Windows 11, despite being new and supporting ADL, is not yet fully optimized. I'm still 99% sure Windows 10 will get proper ADL support sooner or later considering the OS will be supported at the very least until 2029. Overall Windows 10 looks OK aside from certain tasks which could be modified to properly utilitize all the cores under it.

I think Win11 simply incurs a bigger overhead. Newer operating systems tend to do that. wPrime is constant load, DB is mostly about IO... I don't see many opportunities for the scheduler to interfere.

 

[HenrySomeone]

I don’t feel it is a rushed product. If anything, I think this is to be expected for a first gen product with software that takes time to catch up. Having said that, the launch of ADL is a flop in my opinion because,
1. Low supply/ option of DDR5 memory. DDR4 option is available, but most launch day motherboards support DDR5,

2. Lack of cooling option - a lot of retail coolers out there still don’t come with LGA 1700 support out of the box. Manufacturers are releasing the mounting kits, but some will only be available in 2022. Even if the mounting kit exists, there may be mounting pressure or compatibility issues.
Therefore I suspect that’s the reason why ADL chips are not flying off the shelves like when AMD released Zen 3 chips.

Nah, that's because their supply isn't laughably small like Zen3's was for the first couple months...

 

[CoUsTeQ]

Hey @W1zzard - what if instead of disabling E-Cores you simply use task manager to set affinity for games to not use E-Cores? Basically leave E-Cores ON so background processes can use them but pin the games to fast cores only. In theory it should make the games run faster than straight up disabling E-Cores.

 

[bug]

Hey @W1zzard - what if instead of disabling E-Cores you simply use task manager to set affinity for games to not use E-Cores? Basically leave E-Cores ON so background processes can use them but pin the games to fast cores only. In theory it should make the games run faster than straight up disabling E-Cores.

Even without the E cores, you're still looking at 8C/16T. Very few games will saturate those. Best case scenario, you could leave just one E core for background task, it's more than enough for the job.
I'm sure given enough time, all combinations will be looked into.

 

[Shatun_Bear]

oh, yesss, for 2022 => win 11 + i7 and i9 alder lake + 64gb ddr5 + rtx 4080-4090 = it is the future of pc dekstop for gaming......

The only thing that is a future of is global warming.

 

[ARF]

Even without the E cores, you're still looking at 8C/16T. Very few games will saturate those. Best case scenario, you could leave just one E core for background task, it's more than enough for the job.

One small core is not enough for all the background processes. You need either half of them or all of them. 8 small cores.

The only thing that is a future of is global warming.

I think what we need to know is that ETs exist and should help us to solve our problems.

 

[bug]

One small core is not enough for all the background processes. You need either half of them or all of them. 8 small cores.

I run Win10 on a 4 core Skylake and most of the time, the cores are idle. How is one of them not enough for all the background tasks?

 

[ARF]

I run Win10 on a 4 core Skylake and most of the time, the cores are idle. How is one of them not enough for all the background tasks?

Why only one and not two or three? Just random guessing?

 

[bug]

Why only one and not two or three? Just random guessing?

1. Because as I pointed out above, it's enough.
2. Thermal headroom for the others.

 

[ARF]

1. Because as I pointed out above, it's enough.
2. Thermal headroom for the others.

One is not enough. Windows scheduler sends data for processing to all the cores, for example during Windows Update operations. If you leave only one core, you will get stuck and stuttering will appear, or the process would take much longer.

 

[bug]

One is not enough. Windows scheduler sends data for processing to all the cores, for example during Windows Update operations. If you leave only one core, you will get stuck and stuttering will appear, or the process would take much longer.

You can repeat that as long as you want, it won't make it true. You want a screenshot of my task manager?
Windows scheduler is smart enough to not schedule intensive administrative tasks while you're gaming or doing other CPU or IO intensive stuff.

 

[ARF]

You can repeat that as long as you want, it won't make it true. You want a screenshot of my task manager?
Windows scheduler is smart enough to not schedule intensive administrative tasks while you're gaming or doing other CPU or IO intensive stuff.

Smart it is not. It is again product of Intel's policy for profits margins that gives you less cores, so something should be compromised. In this case - simultaneous process handling - if you had more cores, there would be no need for such stupid things.

 

[Anth0789]

I tested Forza horizon 5 with Ecores on and off with nvidia resizable bar enabled, Running CPU stock for now:

E-Cores On:

https://imgur.com/a/CHnJ4iW

E-Cores Off:

https://imgur.com/a/BRPIQrh

It does feel like I get more FPS with e-cores disabled to be honest.

 

[Frick]

How can I switch to Windows 10 LTSC?

An actual license, all proper and fully legal globally? Being employed at a huge corporation, because it's part of the Enterprise version.

 

[W1zzard]

Hey @W1zzard - what if instead of disabling E-Cores you simply use task manager to set affinity for games to not use E-Cores? Basically leave E-Cores ON so background processes can use them but pin the games to fast cores only. In theory it should make the games run faster than straight up disabling E-Cores.

Yeah that works fine, same result as disabling E-Cores for those apps

 

[Minus Infinity]

Quite surprising how there are big swings and roundabouts between the two OS's is depending on the application. Some huge wins for 11 and some huge wins for 10 other than gaming. I assume as the scheduler is refined that those apps like wPrime would see large improvements for AL in 11.

LOL the Gracemont cores aren't that weak, they are of Skylake performance. What will you think when AMD releases Zen 5 with big.little in 2024. I think it's a good idea and will be looking forward to Raptor Lake vs Zen4 and Zen4c.