Why did we abandon hydrogen cars so quickly?

[Aquinus]

Hydrogen it's 3 times more energy efficient, so a plan can use 3 times less height for the fuel alone. That can more then compensate any extra security measures needed.
Airbus is already doing in successful test flights

ZEROe

Discover ZEROe, Airbus’ hydrogen-powered concepts that are shaping our future zero-emission commercial aircraft.

www.airbus.com

Or maybe it's so they can claim tax exemptions from the IRS for capitalization of resources for R&D and any company that's big enough can make marketing look good.

 

[KLiKzg]

No it can't - all current aircraft use in-wing tanks, but in order to get that kind of higher energy density requires over 10k psi tanks.

You can't do that with anything small enough to fit inside any aircraft wing!

This is Why Fuel Tanks are Located in Aircraft Wings | AirplaneAcademy.com

Whether you are a seasoned, new, or aspiring pilot, you likely have noticed that aircraft fuel tanks are commonly located in the wings instead of…

airplaneacademy.com

This is just as pointless as the Oil-industry-funded push for Blue Hydrogen - by the time you work-out all these impossible issues for putting hydrogen on and n plane, you could have figured out how to convert it to jet fuel!

Or maybe, they just experiment with also "flying wing design"? Have you even check the facts, before answering.

Here is a link, for a little tutorial (no Wiki, Airbus site): https://www.airbus.com/en/newsroom/...eveals-its-blended-wing-aircraft-demonstrator

Also, Netherlands is testing similar design on University called Delft Flying-V.

 

[Aquinus]

Or maybe, they just experiment with also "flying wing design"? Have you even check the facts, before answering.

Here is a link, for a little tutorial (no Wiki, Airbus site): https://www.airbus.com/en/newsroom/...eveals-its-blended-wing-aircraft-demonstrator

Also, Netherlands is testing similar design on University called Delft Flying-V.

You see this little tidbit here?

“Although there is no specific time line for entry-into-service, this technological demonstrator could be instrumental in bringing about change in commercial aircraft architectures for an environmentally sustainable future for the aviation industry.”

If there is no roadmap, it's not in the long term vision for the company. Developing this kind of thing takes a while and saying stuff like this means that it merely an R&D project, which sort of goes into what I was saying earlier.

Or maybe it's so they can claim tax exemptions from the IRS for capitalization of resources for R&D and any company that's big enough can make marketing look good.

 

[Bomby569]

You see this little tidbit here?

If there is no roadmap, it's not in the long term vision for the company. Developing this kind of thing takes a while and saying stuff like this means that it merely an R&D project, which sort of goes into what I was saying earlier.

"Although there is no specific time line for entry-into-service" is not the same thing as "there is no roadmap".

 

[Aquinus]

"Although there is no specific time line for entry-into-service" is not the same thing as "there is no roadmap".

If there is an intent for something to be used or sold, there will be a timeline and a specific roadmap. They might not hit every milestone and the fine print will say that it's subject to change at the sole discretion of the business, but this is something that investors and stakeholders demand when pursuing such an endeavor because they need to see KPIs being hit to know that their money isn't going down the drain. No specific timeline to entry basically means that there is no active effort to make it happen.

 

[KLiKzg]

If there is an intent for something to be used or sold, there will be a timeline and a specific roadmap. They might not hit every milestone and the fine print will say that it's subject to change at the sole discretion of the business, but this is something that investors and stakeholders demand when pursuing such an endeavor because they need to see KPIs being hit to know that their money isn't going down the drain. No specific timeline to entry basically means that there is no active effort to make it happen.

That is what they said 10 years ago, for Electric cars.

Look at the momentums going on today.

 

[Jism]

Perhaps we need to start accepting, that we're with quite some people on this planet, and this party cant last forever to be honest. At some point resources on planet earth will deplete faster then we can give back, and by the time then we're in quite some shit.

 

[KLiKzg]

Perhaps we need to start accepting, that we're with quite some people on this planet, and this party cant last forever to be honest. At some point resources on planet earth will deplete faster then we can give back, and by the time then we're in quite some shit.

Haven't you heard? We are already using more, then we Earth can repair (give back).

Check here: https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-48215453

 

[Bomby569]

If there is an intent for something to be used or sold, there will be a timeline and a specific roadmap. They might not hit every milestone and the fine print will say that it's subject to change at the sole discretion of the business, but this is something that investors and stakeholders demand when pursuing such an endeavor because they need to see KPIs being hit to know that their money isn't going down the drain. No specific timeline to entry basically means that there is no active effort to make it happen.

You can have a road map for a project, milestones for a project, etc... without a clear date for "entry in service", because some projects are just that projects, you don't even know most times if they are viable. The only way to put a date for a comercial product in a project like this would be guesstimates. You overcome one hurdle and you don't know how many are in front of it.
KPIs will measure the teams progression not the final product, as there may never be one. It's R&D.

 

[Aquinus]

That is what they said 10 years ago, for Electric cars.

Look at the momentums going on today.

The only reason EV has taken off is because a particular certain company actually delivered, released a product, and demonstrated the ability to fully deliver. If you think companies like Tesla didn't have a plan to build out what they have in the time that they did it, then it sounds like you've never worked in management for a larger company. This stuff just doesn't happen.

It's R&D.

As I said, there is a reason for that.

Or maybe it's so they can claim tax exemptions from the IRS for capitalization of resources for R&D and any company that's big enough can make marketing look good.

 

[TheUn4seen]

Oh come on guys, be realistic. Energy from sunshine or the boom-boom gas? Oil and coal industries invested billions in getting those dead dinosaurs to your cars and dead trees to your power plants and now you want to deprive investors of getting the fifth mansion and sixth yacht? You monsters. At least give the oil companies time to buy out the whole renewable energy industry (which they are doing at an unprecedented pace, by the way), so they can continue to use their political connections to tax you into servitude.
Using hydrogen fuel cells needs a lot of R&D, but it'll happen. Look, listen and observe, as my father used to say. You will know this future is coming when the likes of BP will buy every hydrogen supplier on the planet and there will be a huge tax spike for hydrogen production and sales. That's how you know things are coming.

 

[KLiKzg]

The only reason EV has taken off is because a particular certain company actually delivered, released a product, and demonstrated the ability to fully deliver. If you think companies like Tesla didn't have a plan to build out what they have in the time that they did it, then it sounds like you've never worked in management for a larger company. This stuff just doesn't happen.

Oh, I do know how it happens. All to well.

But can't talk about it. NDA.

 

[Shrek]

The only reason EV has taken off is because a particular certain company actually delivered, released a product, and demonstrated the ability to fully deliver.

And perhaps because every house already has a refill 'pump'

 

[dragontamer5788]

And perhaps because every house already has a refill 'pump'

I don't think 110V is sufficient for anyone.

220v is doable in many, many homes but not universally. 220V level 2 chargers are the minimum home charging system to consider.

110V only does maybe 3 to 5 miles of charge per hour. 220V is a far more usable at about 20 miles of charge per hour.

110V chargers are for hotels at vacation spots to offer on the cheap. Maybe you'll get enough charge in 2 or 3 days of constant charging, and reduce the amount of time you spend at other chargers.

 

[looniam]

220v is doable in many, many homes but not universally.

every house connected by the electric company gets 110v 2 phase power. a dual pole breaker in the service panel provides 220v phase to phase. either there's no breaker or no room in the service panel for a breaker but it's still there.

 

[Aquinus]

every house connected by the electric company gets 110v 2 phase power.

For the sake of clarity, this is called 230v split-phase electric service, which is two hots that are 180° out of phase where the difference between the two hots has a RMS voltage of ~230v which is very different than multi-phase service at 208v+ which is RMS voltage relative to neutral, not between the hots. This is more than 115v alone can provide, but it's not the same as having two phases with a common neutral at ~230v which has far more carrying capacity.

The main differences is that split-phase still only uses two conductors like regular 115v service and doesn't use a common neutral.

 

[Shrek]

I wonder if the option to use more than one 110V circuit in a house will one day be practical.

 

[Aquinus]

I wonder if the option to use more than one 110V circuit in a house will one day be practical.

It is, that's what @looniam was talking about, split phase electrical service. It's two 115v circuits that are out of phase.

 

[Shrek]

It is, that's what @looniam was talking about, split phase electrical service. It's two 115v circuits that are out of phase.

That's not quite what I had in mind; that is 220V that is available in most US houses.

What I was thinking is to plug the charger into TWO 110V sockets that are on differing circuits; it would be a stop gap measure before one had 220V extended to the garage.

 

[Aquinus]

That's not quite what I had in mind; that is 220V that is available in most US houses.

What I was thinking is to plug the charger into TWO 110V sockets that are on differing circuits; it would be a stop gap measure before one had 220V extended to the garage.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to get at. Two 115v circuits with a shared neutral compared to split-phase service would provide the same amount of carrying capacity, except you're using an additional conductor to do it. In fact, the lower effective voltage might make it worse.

 

[Shrek]

True, but it would require no extra wiring (I did write 'it would be a stop gap measure before one had 220V extended to the garage')

 

[Aquinus]

True, but it would require no extra wiring (I did write 'a stop gap measure before one had 220V extended to the garage')

Two circuits requires twice the number of conductors. Using split phase over 115v would give you more capacity with the same conductors.

 

[Shrek]

Third time now:
'it would be a stop gap measure before one had 220V extended to the garage'

the wiring is already present

 

[Deleted member 202104]

Third time now:
'it would be a stop gap measure before one had 220V extended to the garage'

the wiring is already present

In this case you're expecting two separate circuits that would have been physically installed close to each other. I can't think of many times where I've seen that happen.

As a side note, I've been charging a plugin hybrid off of 120v for almost 4 years. Small battery capacity that takes about 5 hours to add ~6.5 kWh

I recently had a 40 amp 240v circuit and charger installed for a second plugin hybrid that needs about 15 kWh to charge. About 2.5 hours.

 

[Shrek]

True, although I have more than one circuit in the kitchen, and I was just playing with thoughts.

My thinking is

• I get an electric car
• Rewiring waits till I have enough money

How much did the 240V installation cost?

For a hybrid I would probably live with 110V