Report: Intel to Become One of the Three Largest TSMC Clients in 2023

[AleksandarK]

Intel and TSMC are positioning themselves as two competing foundries for a significant period. However, as the difficulties in semiconductor manufacturing rise, the collaboration of the two seems inevitable. Not because Intel is eyeing TSMC's clients, but because of the race to produce the most minor and best possible semiconductor node. We already know that Intel plans to use some of TSMC's nodes for its Ponte Vecchio accelerator that contains 47 tiles. However, we didn't realize just how big the contract between the two companies was. According to the latest report from DigiTimes, Intel is supposed to become one of the top three clients at TSMC.

As the report notes, the collaboration should extend to at least TSMC's 2 nm node, expected in 2025. After that, the state of semiconductors is unknown. Intel has a solid chance to be in the top three customers in 2023 and become one of the primary sources of profit for the Taiwanese giant. We are excited to see how this prediction plays out and hope to hear more from both in the future.


View at TechPowerUp Main Site

 

[bonehead123]

Intel has a solid chance to be in the top three customers in 2023

IIRC, that ship has already sailed, by way of the boys in fruity valley, hehehe

2025, yea maybe, although I wouldn't hold me breath, but then again, literally anything could happen when it comes to chip fabs nowadays.....

 

[Udyr]

But why would Intel do business with a company from an "unstable country"?

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

But why would Intel do business with a company from an "unstable country"?

You do know that Pat didnt say 'we wont do business with TSMC because they are in an unstable country", right? He said taiwan is an unstable country (because it is, china's saber rattling has got everyone's attention, and after afghanistan dependance on american military projection is looking awfully shakey) and that america should be investing more into building american foundaries so they are not dependent on china for their chips in the event of a chinese takeover of taiwan. Since TSMC recieves notable investment from the taiwanese government, pat suggested america should do the same with intel.

I know nuance is hard to understand, but do try to read a little more closely next time.

 

[bonehead123]

But why would Intel do business with a company from an "unstable country"?

If Taiwan is so "unstable" as you suggest, how has TSMC (or any other companies operating there) become such behemoths/major players in the electronics industry ?

Granted, they have their issues like most countries, but just sayin

 

[dicktracy]

Huawei is not a customer anymore so it's likely 1) Apple 2) Intel/Qualcomm 3) Qualcomm/Intel

 

[R-T-B]

If Taiwan is so "unstable" as you suggest, how has TSMC (or any other companies operating there) become such behemoths/major players in the electronics industry ?

Granted, they have their issues like most countries, but just sayin

Intels CEO suggested it, not him. It's pretty much the CEOs exact wording.

 

[Totally]

If Taiwan is so "unstable" as you suggest, how has TSMC (or any other companies operating there) become such behemoths/major players in the electronics industry ?

Granted, they have their issues like most countries, but just sayin

Cheap labor

 

[R-T-B]

Cheap labor

Labor in taiwan isn't as cheap as most imagine. Certainly cheaper than the states though.

 

[freeagent]

If you can’t beat ‘em, join em

 

[Daven]

Step 1: buy up all your competitors’ fab capacity

Step 2: lobby for government subsidies to make up lost margins from using a third party fab

Intel is just a special kind of evil.

 

[AnarchoPrimitiv]

Step 1: buy up all your competitors’ fab capacity

Step 2: lobby for government subsidies to make up lost margins from using a third party fab

Intel is just a special kind of evil.

Agreed....I don't think people realize how dangerous this is with respect to competition in the x86 market place....this harkens back to Intel's dirty tactics circa the early 2000s when they resorted to bribing OEMs when they couldn't beat AMD, and now they're resorting to using their financial weight again instead of innovation. AMD's annual revenue is 800%+ less than Intel's, AMD's annual R&D budget is 650% less than Intel's, and AMD has not made nearly enough ground in the two most lucrative x86 markets: enterprise and mobility (laptops). I'm sure people will write this off as the rantings of an AMD fanboy, but in reality, I'm honestly scared we could easily backslide into Intel cartelism and stagnation like the one we have really just come out of, all thanks to AMD. Seriously, in a just world, Intel would be forced to use ONLY their own fabs and have to lie in the bed they've made for themselves. We as enthusiasts have absolutely NO guarantee's that AMD can weather this storm as they are nowhere near 50% market share and have nowhere near the financial resources of Intel (which makes it all that more impressive what AMD and Lisa Su have managed to accomplish with a shoestring budget by comparison). Seriously, for the betterment of all consumers, it would have been far more beneficial for AMD to have dominance for another 3 to 5 years....time enough to build up their financial resources and penetrate the x86 market much further. Everyone seems to forget that the vast majority of x86 sales for consumers are laptops, and the overwhelming majority of those consumers don't even know AMD exists and basically see "Intel" and "laptop" as synonymous and interchangeable terms...we may seriously be looking back at the Zen 1 through Zen 3/4 period as the "good old days" in a couple years when where back with overpriced stagnation from Intel and all because they threw around their financial weight and NOT because they out-engineered or out-innovated AMD.

AMD, in order to remain profitable (remember, only share prices matter in late-stage capitalism), could easily scale down all consumer x86 and consumer dGPU development, shed those entire departments, and just go completely semi-custom, and remain profitable, sell off their IP/patents, and the shareholders would be just as happy.

 

[Denver]

The failure of intel as a fab. is bad for everyone, if intel is not being able to supply itself everyone will be held hostage by TSMC which seems unstoppable (fortunately and unfortunately) and with that prices tend to rise exponentially

 

[Totally]

Labor in taiwan isn't as cheap as most imagine. Certainly cheaper than the states though.

When education and work ethic is compared to that of the states it's damn cheap. They're actually capable work 80hr weeks, and are mostly content with upper mid 5 figure salaries. Stateside such a person would want at least six figures

 

[Minus Infinity]

If Taiwan is so "unstable" as you suggest, how has TSMC (or any other companies operating there) become such behemoths/major players in the electronics industry ?

Granted, they have their issues like most countries, but just sayin

Because it's become a lot more unstable under Xi Jinping's dictatorship and his aggressive airforce incursions into Taiwanese airspace. China is far more aggressive now about Taiwan than it has been in the past and there is now very high likely hood of invasion. This was not true even just 2 years ago. It's actually highly likely China and Russia will corrdinate attacks on Taiwan and Ukraine respectively, to further weaken America's response.

Building new fabs take huge investments in time and money. We would need Taiwan for many years even if we could eventually replace it capabilities. How that would play out in the short term though if China seized back control is anyone's guess.

About time Australia put its hand up to locate Fabs. Places like South Australia would be perfect. Our useless government needs to spruik us to the big players looking for politically stable locations.

 

[Why_Me]

The curious case of a map and a disappearing Taiwan minister at U.S. democracy summit

A video feed of a Taiwanese minister was cut during U.S. President Joe Biden's Summit for Democracy last week after a map in her slide presentation showed Taiwan in a different color to China, which claims the island as its own.

www.reuters.com

 

[GURU7OF9]

Agreed....I don't think people realize how dangerous this is with respect to competition in the x86 market place....this harkens back to Intel's dirty tactics circa the early 2000s when they resorted to bribing OEMs when they couldn't beat AMD, and now they're resorting to using their financial weight again instead of innovation. AMD's annual revenue is 800%+ less than Intel's, AMD's annual R&D budget is 650% less than Intel's, and AMD has not made nearly enough ground in the two most lucrative x86 markets: enterprise and mobility (laptops). I'm sure people will write this off as the rantings of an AMD fanboy, but in reality, I'm honestly scared we could easily backslide into Intel cartelism and stagnation like the one we have really just come out of, all thanks to AMD. Seriously, in a just world, Intel would be forced to use ONLY their own fabs and have to lie in the bed they've made for themselves. We as enthusiasts have absolutely NO guarantee's that AMD can weather this storm as they are nowhere near 50% market share and have nowhere near the financial resources of Intel (which makes it all that more impressive what AMD and Lisa Su have managed to accomplish with a shoestring budget by comparison). Seriously, for the betterment of all consumers, it would have been far more beneficial for AMD to have dominance for another 3 to 5 years....time enough to build up their financial resources and penetrate the x86 market much further. Everyone seems to forget that the vast majority of x86 sales for consumers are laptops, and the overwhelming majority of those consumers don't even know AMD exists and basically see "Intel" and "laptop" as synonymous and interchangeable terms...we may seriously be looking back at the Zen 1 through Zen 3/4 period as the "good old days" in a couple years when where back with overpriced stagnation from Intel and all because they threw around their financial weight and NOT because they out-engineered or out-innovated AMD.

AMD, in order to remain profitable (remember, only share prices matter in late-stage capitalism), could easily scale down all consumer x86 and consumer dGPU development, shed those entire departments, and just go completely semi-custom, and remain profitable, sell off their IP/patents, and the shareholders would be just as happy.

Now that is pretty much the same page as i am on!
Only i think they can shaft TSMC in this scenario as well, if it all goes pear shaped ! Ie tie up a lot of their volume and then pull the plug. Blocks AMD from using it and then leaves TSMC with a big hole to fill with massive volume loss !

 

[z1n0x]

Agreed....I don't think people realize how dangerous this is with respect to competition in the x86 market place....this harkens back to Intel's dirty tactics circa the early 2000s when they resorted to bribing OEMs when they couldn't beat AMD, and now they're resorting to using their financial weight again instead of innovation. AMD's annual revenue is 800%+ less than Intel's, AMD's annual R&D budget is 650% less than Intel's, and AMD has not made nearly enough ground in the two most lucrative x86 markets: enterprise and mobility (laptops). I'm sure people will write this off as the rantings of an AMD fanboy, but in reality, I'm honestly scared we could easily backslide into Intel cartelism and stagnation like the one we have really just come out of, all thanks to AMD. Seriously, in a just world, Intel would be forced to use ONLY their own fabs and have to lie in the bed they've made for themselves. We as enthusiasts have absolutely NO guarantee's that AMD can weather this storm as they are nowhere near 50% market share and have nowhere near the financial resources of Intel (which makes it all that more impressive what AMD and Lisa Su have managed to accomplish with a shoestring budget by comparison). Seriously, for the betterment of all consumers, it would have been far more beneficial for AMD to have dominance for another 3 to 5 years....time enough to build up their financial resources and penetrate the x86 market much further. Everyone seems to forget that the vast majority of x86 sales for consumers are laptops, and the overwhelming majority of those consumers don't even know AMD exists and basically see "Intel" and "laptop" as synonymous and interchangeable terms...we may seriously be looking back at the Zen 1 through Zen 3/4 period as the "good old days" in a couple years when where back with overpriced stagnation from Intel and all because they threw around their financial weight and NOT because they out-engineered or out-innovated AMD.

AMD, in order to remain profitable (remember, only share prices matter in late-stage capitalism), could easily scale down all consumer x86 and consumer dGPU development, shed those entire departments, and just go completely semi-custom, and remain profitable, sell off their IP/patents, and the shareholders would be just as happy.

I was going to write lengthy reply about how TSMC screwing up strategic (fabless and rapidly growing) customer like AMD make no sense, but i will quote "RetiredEngineer" instead.

"Depends on what Intel is using 3nm for, and process node alone is not the only determinant. And don’t believe TSMC would allow Intel to “crowd out” AMD or other loyal/strategic customers. It doesn’t serve TSMC’s long term interest; makes no sense."

 

[Udyr]

You do know that Pat didnt say 'we wont do business with TSMC because they are in an unstable country", right? He said taiwan is an unstable country (because it is, china's saber rattling has got everyone's attention, and after afghanistan dependance on american military projection is looking awfully shakey) and that america should be investing more into building american foundaries so they are not dependent on china for their chips in the event of a chinese takeover of taiwan. Since TSMC recieves notable investment from the taiwanese government, pat suggested america should do the same with intel.

I know nuance is hard to understand, but do try to read a little more closely next time.

If Taiwan is so "unstable" as you suggest, how has TSMC (or any other companies operating there) become such behemoths/major players in the electronics industry ?

Granted, they have their issues like most countries, but just sayin

I suppose I should have added /s at the end of my comment, referring to how Pat basically said "they're unstable. Give me money" (simplified), and then went on to (even if unrelated to his comments because of obvious business reasons) work with the company that "miraculously" grew to the top in the same unstable country.

...but thanks, though. I appreciate your hasty input.

 

[R-T-B]

When education and work ethic is compared to that of the states it's damn cheap. They're actually capable work 80hr weeks, and are mostly content with upper mid 5 figure salaries. Stateside such a person would want at least six figures

Which is why I specifically excluded the states.

 

[londiste]

Seriously, in a just world, Intel would be forced to use ONLY their own fabs and have to lie in the bed they've made for themselves.

So what exactly are your thoughts here. You think AMD should be what, closed? Not have been allowed to spin off GF? Make do with 12nm?

 

[stimpy88]

What a sad story for Intel this is.

 

[Chomiq]

So it's now Apple, AMD, Intel? That's one hell of a basket to put all your eggs in.

 

[stimpy88]

So it's now Apple, AMD, Intel? That's one hell of a basket to put all your eggs in.

All those companies will go bust if China misbehaves early next year, maybe Intel can survive, but their fabs are a mess. And it will be the end of Apple. AMD may cope, as they don't use cutting edge process nodes.

 

[Vayra86]

Cheap labor

Available workforce, in fact, and not cheap.

The problem isn't how fast can you build fabs, the problem is how well can you staff them.