Throttlestop overclocking Desktop PCs

[frankr2994]

Ok so the individual you recommended is helping me out. I have received 4 different modified bios files. At first look through the ami configuration software I can see no changes made. However alot of hex code has been changed. I tried studying it myself and I have no idea....I was told if these files don't work the it's above their skill level. So hopefully it's a go. I'm trying to pull a good dump file now to verify I'm hooked up good to do the first flash.

Ok tried all 4 modded bios files. All boot fine and after all these flashed I haven't bricked once lol. No changes though. I'm currently going through my bios file making changes that I hope will take affect I just won't be able to see them. Hopefully with said changes in place I can use all the TS features. It's rather odd reading the description of features atleast in the editor. Some give an explanation and that's not always clear. I try to Google it and I'm not coming up with anything. I would assume in a totally unlocked ami bios for well anything it would be worded the same way anyways.

Ok I extracted a module from my bios. Extracted that to a text file. It contains all the variables I should need to change. I have no idea how to compress it back into my bios but that will come. It looks like there is no way I can make any settings visible in my bios so I need to know every last limit I need to adjust to get the most out of TS. I also plan on increasing my memory frequency because I have the settings to do it and I read the ecc memory can be overclocked to about 2600 without changing anything else.

 

[Retrorockit]

If you can get a datasheet for your PLL, and VRM controller chip you can see what they require in the way of hex to set them up. The TME setting is usually writeable before POST, but not rewriteable after POST, partly because they cover it up with an output to defeat hardmods. It will give a step by step order for booting the CPU settings. The TME lock will be very early in the boot sequence.
When I looked at this I saw the possibility on my PLL of changing the TME setting from H to L to disable it ,and then modding the FSB limit higher by changing one value from L to H to maintain the checksum. But that was LGA775 which had several default FSB to choose from. But your PLL may still have those options.
ECC RAM loses some latency due to error checking. If you get the FSB to move the RAM speed usually increases also. But chasing latency can have just as much benefit as RAM speed. Non ECC low latency RAM is one thing to look at on a TS overclock.

 

[unclewebb]

I can use all the TS features.

What features are not working for you? Many TS features only apply to the newer CPUs.

Changing the BCLK is probably not going to get you very far. I think you are still going to be up against the same power limits that are holding you back now.

 

[frankr2994]

I guess it was really my current limit or my tdp level. I could not change current above 208 and I could not set my tdp in level 2 in TS. I see options in my bios setup though. And I was not talking about a bclk speed increase. I'm obviously new to overclocking but what I read was someone with a similar setup to me set the frequency higher for their ecc memory. They stated that they got 2600mhz without modifying anything else voltage wise. I have an option in the bios to set my memory frequency. Maybe it's just BS and I'll be the first to admit I don't really know what I'm talking about here. I've put lots of memory in different machines over the years and never cared other than I made sure to buy the right kind.

 

[unclewebb]

Some CPUs only have TDP Level 0 and Level 1 available. Not all CPUs support TDP Level 2. If ThrottleStop only allows you to access 0 and 1 then that is all your CPU supports. No BIOS mod will change that.

If you can find a way to unlock your current limit, that might help you to overclock further without triggering any throttling. Some of the other things lighting up red in Limit Reasons are unusual and are likely to limit you even if you get the current limit unlocked. I have no idea what needs to be changed to try to get around some of the other throttling that is being triggered.

The Xeons might hard lock the max memory speed.

Keep hacking away. You never know what you might discover. I keep checking the local classified ads for a T5810 so I can have some fun too.

 

[frankr2994]

So no update yet. Still going to try just haven't had the time. I cannot get someone to tell me how to modify a module/efi bios file. I can extract it out to read it in text view which is how you figure out what you need to edit but the text is not something you can edit. I don't know where to go from there lol. I know the guys over at bios mods and win raid know how to do that but I don't think I can get the point across for them to explain it to me.

 

[frankr2994]

Ok I've figured out a bunch of things. Found some new software to mod the bios and have an understanding on how it all works. I have a friend who is a software developer looking at some code for me. Regardless I've ordered a e5-1691v3 cpu. 14 core unlocked. Should be fun.

 

[Retrorockit]

I'm just trying to get an E6500K to run in my Optiplex 380! LOL

 

[Retrorockit]

OK no updates in this thread for a while.
I just found a TS overclock at OCN. An HP Z820 workstation. 8c/16t, 48GB @4.5GHz.

HP Z820 performance build using unlocked Xeon 1680v2...

www.overclock.net

HP water cooling. I think it's a 2CPU machine running a single CPU.

 

[frankr2994]

Guessing that would be an e5-1680 xeon. Very cool. I looked into the HP water blocks. Stupid narrow ilm in my Dell doesn't let me use anything cool. And yes I see this thread has been sorta dead. I have not had time to play with my PC in a bit. I've set some more machines up for friends and family but the no gpu thing has me down on doing more with my rig. F'n pandemic.

 

[Retrorockit]

It was an e5-1680 "v2" which is one generation newer.
Thermalright makes some Narrow ILM brackets. Their hardware has the same threads as Dell coolers also.

Narrow ILM BTK – Thermalright

thermalright.com

My best guess for a cooler would be this one. Height may be an issue.

Macho 90 – Thermalright

thermalright.com

My favorite Nidec 90x38mm fan is listed elsewhere in this thread.

 

[lexluthermiester]

It was an e5-1680 "v2" which is one generation newer.

That's a great CPU!

 

[frankr2994]

I mis spoke a little. I did something badass just couldn't use a self contained oe water block like I wanted. This is a super micro 4u cooler with a Dell high pressure system fan on it. I had to drill the ilm bracket out to use the Dell screws and set the tension back up with washers. Also modded another heatsink for the vrm

 

[Retrorockit]

That high pressure fan is a good match for the dense fin count of that cooler .I'm not sure a 120mm water cooler will cool as well as what you have already.
Heatpipes are phase change devices, and water loops are not. They usually have to be much bigger to perform better.
Thanks for the photo showing what can be done to OC newer Dell workstations. Dell cooling mods have never been off the shelf projects.
Also I notice you gained some room by populating the outer bank of memory slots. That's worth knowing also.

 

[frankr2994]

No they are not. Only downside is those are not direct contact heatpipes. Doesn't matter if that fan is at 30 percent or 100 it cools the same. Can't get the heat into the cooler fast enough to pull it out. Works fine though I just thought I could get it down around 60c to see if I could over clock it more. It will not hit 80c no matter what so that's a bonus

 

[Retrorockit]

Is that an 80mm fan or 90mm? I forgot it might be smaller than I thought. Never owned a narrow ILM so I don't have a feel for them.
Did you try lapping the heatsink and CPU? I think it's worth about 3*C. headroom.
It may be those CPUs didn't have the soldered heatspreader. If it's glued on then the cooler probably isn't the problem.
This can vary between Xeons and mainstream CPUs. I would search that CPU at OCN and see what they've found.
Delidders would know.

 

[frankr2994]

I think it's considered a 92mm fan?? Its the same fan that case has 3 of. No I didn't try lapping it and really didn't want to de lid. I got myself into a situation where I was out of time and actually needed to use the computer lol. Drilling out that ilm bracket was fun in itself. Hardened steel ate a couple of my cobalt drill bits. I took the fan that came with the heatsink and re pinned it to fit a Dell motherboard header and plugged it into the HDD fan header and mounted it as exhaust. If I spin all the fans up it's no different than a big blade server now lol.

 

[Retrorockit]

Ivy Bridge heatspreaders are a known issue.

Ivy Bridge Temperatures Could Be Linked To TIM Inside Integrated Heatspreader: Report

PC enthusiasts with Ivy Bridge engineering samples, and reviewers at large have come to the consensus that Ivy Bridge is a slightly warmer chip than it should be. An investigation by Overclockers.com revealed a possible contributing factor to that. Upon carefully removing the integrated...

www.techpowerup.com

92mm should be big enough. The HP guy is getting a 50% OC so the potential is there.

The aftermarket went away from high fin counts because air sticks to the fins (boundary layer) and doesn't really want to move. The wide fin spacing let the air pass through w/o noisy fans, and they put holes and tabs in there to break up the boundary layer. Supermicro is trying to cram a lot of cooling into the narrow ILM footprint and doesn't care if it sounds like a server.
But with TIM inside the CPU who knows what will work best?

 

[frankr2994]

Well I put the fan on there lol. The super micro fan isn't nearly as aggressive. I thought what the hell and ordered another case fan and stuck it on there. The vrm heatsink is off an old IBM server I had and modded a little bit. I ultimately hit a brick wall with an amperage limit that I couldn't bypass. I tried modding my bios a whole bunch of times with no success. If anyone ever figures out how to mod a Dell uefi bios I'd pay for it.

 

[frankr2994]

Well I looked into it anyways. My chip is supposedly soldered so no delidding. I had toyed with the idea of milling the bottom of the heatsink to expose the heat pipes and then modding my hold down to compensate. But at the end of the day I can't go any further. I'm on the lookout for a reasonable eatx or atx x99 motherboard to build. But damn are name brand ones expensive.

 

[Retrorockit]

Well I looked into it anyways. My chip is supposedly soldered so no delidding. I had toyed with the idea of milling the bottom of the heatsink to expose the heat pipes and then modding my hold down to compensate. But at the end of the day I can't go any further. I'm on the lookout for a reasonable eatx or atx x99 motherboard to build. But damn are name brand ones expensive.

Congrats on the soldered chip.

I'm not sure machining will get what you want with the heatpipes. They're usually swedged flat on one side for that. Thermalright coolers are polished, and slightly convex which seems to work just as well. Also there are usually gaps that need to be filled with thermal paste. Lapping gets the paste as thin as possible. I think the polished and machined stuff probably works just as well.
Lapping the CPU is not that hard, and the stamped covers can be far from flat in some cases. I keep an old mirror around and some 3M # 03006 fine sand paper assortment (#1000-#2500) from an auto parts store. I start with 600-800 grit, to get it flat, then work my way to #2500 grit paper. I tape the end of the sheets to the mirror so it doesn't slide around.
Personally I think that's just as important as the cooler base.
Thermalright does make a Silver Arrow ITX cooler. It will turn the airflow sideways, and no idea if it will actually fit but it does overclock fairly well. 103mm wide and 165mm high. Very quiet even overclocked. I think this would equal the HP H2O setup, or better. My guess is the heatpipes will hit at the top. One solution would be to space the whole cover up. The TR Macho 120 I put in the T3500 is only 150mm high and it hit the cover. How this balances out against going aftermarket ATX all the way IDK. But the cooler wouldn't be wasted if you do.

Thermalright Silver Arrow ITX Review

Thermalright is shaking things up with the Silver Arrow ITX. It features a tweaked design that offers better compatibility with Mini-ITX motherboards, especially the ASUS ROG line. With solid performance, exceptional style, and near-silent operation, the Silver Arrow ITX manages to hold its own...

www.techpowerup.com

TDP 240W!

 

[frankr2994]

I already had to mod the cover decently for my current cooler to work. Never finished it but I no long have the door latch on it....at all. I have to reach in to open it up lol. And ya I didn't consider how not flat the stamped heat spreader may be. That would actually be worth my time. I have some granite at work that I tape sandpaper on to lap stuff. I do disagree with milling the heatsink though. There is a decent amount of aluminum between the cpu and the heatpipes. The closer I could get them the better. I keep saying though I need a Dell bios guru to actually push this further. I've been all over bios modding sites and have had more than one person try to help me out. Really need a Dell or AMI firmware developer to chime in.

Oh and looking I see that thermalright has a narrow ilm bracket available separately....you show me where the hell you can buy it lol. eBay doesn't even have one.

 

[Retrorockit]

I already had to mod the cover decently for my current cooler to work. Never finished it but I no long have the door latch on it....at all. I have to reach in to open it up lol. And ya I didn't consider how not flat the stamped heat spreader may be. That would actually be worth my time. I have some granite at work that I tape sandpaper on to lap stuff. I do disagree with milling the heatsink though. There is a decent amount of aluminum between the cpu and the heatpipes. The closer I could get them the better. I keep saying though I need a Dell bios guru to actually push this further. I've been all over bios modding sites and have had more than one person try to help me out. Really need a Dell or AMI firmware developer to chime in.

Oh and looking I see that thermalright has a narrow ilm bracket available separately....you show me where the hell you can buy it lol. eBay doesn't even have one.

Thermalright is a German Company I believe. Maybe go straight to them. But yes the Macho 120s are hard to find too. Try a part number search. Look at images and see if it's just a bolt pattern mod of the AMD bracket they all come with.
maybe Thermalright.de and Google translate will get you something.

The HP guy got 4.5Ghz at 45x100 using just Throttlestop.
"45x100 daily at 1.312v, 48GB of ECC RAM at 1600MHz. Served for a few years as compiling server, media server, file server, and web/mysql server."

With 4 channel RAM I'm not sure BCLK BIOS modding has much to offer anyway. It (the CPU) supports 1866 RAM, and then chase lower latency parts for more speed that way. Ditching ECC (if possible) helps with that.

You're right. Removing some aluminum would remove some thermal resistance. But getting to the wide footprint of the bare copper heatpipes against the CPU that aftermarket coolers have wouldn't be possible.

 

[frankr2994]

Oh I can run 4.6 as long as I'm not doing a avx stress test. But the way that chip wanted to overclock I know there is more in it. I wanted to bypass current limits that hold me back. I don't even care if I trash the motherboard I'll just buy another barebones PC to rape another from lol. I'd go further in cpu cooling and vrm cooling if I could get more current pushed. I don't want to do any bclk adjusting. If I remember without reading back though all my post was edp power limit and once it hits I loose all my speed as it dials way back.

 

[Retrorockit]

Oh I can run 4.6 as long as I'm not doing a avx stress test. But the way that chip wanted to overclock I know there is more in it. I wanted to bypass current limits that hold me back. I don't even care if I trash the motherboard I'll just buy another barebones PC to rape another from lol. I'd go further in cpu cooling and vrm cooling if I could get more current pushed. I don't want to do any bclk adjusting. If I remember without reading back though all my post was edp power limit and once it hits I loose all my speed as it dials way back.

I've never found much going on in Dell BIOS modding. partly because it's difficult, and partly due to lack of any real interest.