AMD Explores Adding Ryzen 5000-series Support to 300-series Chipsets

[tony359]

it's a few pennies which will multiply for (hundreds of thousands?) boards, saving a big chunk of money in the end. As it's been said, 99% of people never ever update their BIOS so I can very much understand why consumer motherboards don't normally have those features - sadly.

 

[lexluthermiester]

does that include overclocking?

Not sure. It would very likely depend on the board. My previous statement was based solely on what AMD has said about those chipsets. Definite maybe.

Okay, it's time to move on. 300 series boards are old and not fit for purpose for a 5000x processor.

You are welcome to your opinions, even when they are without merit...

 

[eidairaman1]

Not sure. It would very likely depend on the board. My previous statement was based solely on what AMD has said about those chipsets. Definite maybe.


You are welcome to your opinions, even when they are without merit...

The top end X370 boards I can definitely understand supporting Gen 3 Ryzens.

 

[Tsukiyomi91]

I somewhat understand why they do this but at the same time, not many are sane enough to butcher their old Ryzen CPU support for a new one that might not even run properly. Just because they're using the exact same socket type does not mean it will work 100%. Sure, some high end X370 might be able to, but those that have B350s are not capable of running Ryzen 5xxx at factory speeds 24/7 let alone running PBO. You have to be very lucky to even remotely run a new processor on an aging board though this means losing Gen4 support and other high-bandwidth interfaces just to "save a buck"

 

[trsttte]

I somewhat understand why they do this but at the same time, not many are sane enough to butcher their old Ryzen CPU support for a new one that might not even run properly. Just because they're using the exact same socket type does not mean it will work 100%. Sure, some high end X370 might be able to, but those that have B350s are not capable of running Ryzen 5xxx at factory speeds 24/7 let alone running PBO. You have to be very lucky to even remotely run a new processor on an aging board though this means losing Gen4 support and other high-bandwidth interfaces just to "save a buck"

There are bad board across any chipset/socket line up. Ryzen 5000 has exactly the same TDPs as Ryzen 3000, just as no one guarantees that you can max out a 5950x on a lowly B550 Phantom Gaming or X570-A PRO, the same will happen for b350/x370.

 

[Mussels]

I think the problem here is that the board makers bloat the shit out of their BIOS.


AMD needs to come up with a generic universal one that fits, and let tell the board makers to use it - and they can throw their customisations on top, but tone down the space wasting shit

 

[tony359]

I somewhat understand why they do this but at the same time, not many are sane enough to butcher their old Ryzen CPU support for a new one that might not even run properly. Just because they're using the exact same socket type does not mean it will work 100%. Sure, some high end X370 might be able to, but those that have B350s are not capable of running Ryzen 5xxx at factory speeds 24/7 let alone running PBO. You have to be very lucky to even remotely run a new processor on an aging board though this means losing Gen4 support and other high-bandwidth interfaces just to "save a buck"

Has this been tested? To give my HTPC Windows 11 compatibility I’ve recently swapped my Ryzen 3 1200 with a Ryzen 5 3600 on my MSI A320 bazooka. Besides having to upgrade the cooler, I haven’t seen any particular issues with the system. Clearly a cheap A320 board would not be recommended for 24/7 video rendering - because of the board vRM and not the chipset I’d like to add.
but, again, I’d like to see test results which can prove that ‘ageing’ boards are ‘not fit for purpose’ when paired with a R3000 or even R5000 please.

 

[Assimilator]

As for the rom size, I think mobo makers should always use removable bios dips, and the mobo should come with a spare one.
View attachment 231605

Not hard.

The number of people who would actually make use of socketable BIOS chips can likely be counted on one hand... and half of those would screw it up and render the motherboard inoperable anyway (see the number of examples where people manage to screw up the pins when installing AM4 CPUs, if you don't believe me). So not only do you have a feature that almost nobody uses and costs more to implement, you also have one that will result in more bricked motherboards... gee I wonder why board manufacturers don't implement it.

If you want a socketable BIOS chip, solder a socket onto the board yourself. Complaining that motherboard manufacturers don't do it is a waste of everyone's time because it ain't gonna happen.

 

[TheLostSwede]

I think the problem here is that the board makers bloat the shit out of their BIOS.


AMD needs to come up with a generic universal one that fits, and let tell the board makers to use it - and they can throw their customisations on top, but tone down the space wasting shit

And here I thought a lot of the bloat had been removed, like images of the motherboard with mouse roll over highlights of lots and what not.
It was a nice, but useless thing that a lot of board makers added.
The bigger issue these days seems to be that they need a lot of extra graphical elements to handle display scaling, or the interface looks all blurred out.

The other issue is that the AGESA is apparently growing a lot in size and it seems like AMD needs to figure out a better way to do things, as Intel is apparently not having the same bloat issues when it comes to their CPU code for the UEFI.

Also, AMD doesn't make UEFI's, that would be AMI and Insyde, not sure if there's anyone else left. Their stuff is then "merged" with the AGESA by the board makers. I guess this might also be part of the reason why things are the way they are.

The number of people who would actually make use of socketable BIOS chips can likely be counted on one hand... and half of those would screw it up and render the motherboard inoperable anyway (see the number of examples where people manage to screw up the pins when installing AM4 CPUs, if you don't believe me). So not only do you have a feature that almost nobody uses and costs more to implement, you also have one that will result in more bricked motherboards... gee I wonder why board manufacturers don't implement it.

If you want a socketable BIOS chip, solder a socket onto the board yourself. Complaining that motherboard manufacturers don't do it is a waste of everyone's time because it ain't gonna happen.

Well, considering most mid-range boards and up now have an MCU onboard, which allows for programming of the BIOS chip from a USB stick, a socketed chip isn't as important as it once was, nor is having a backup BIOS chip. Even a bad flash isn't likely to fry the flash memory and the MCU would just write over whatever a bad flash caused.

Since most people don't know what BIOS/UEFI is, they wouldn't be updating them, which is kind of stupid. Even with Windows based update utilities, most people aren't going to be doing it, because their computer is working. Just like most people don't update their drives...

 

[NC37]

After I just got a 3900X a few months ago because it was EOL for my 370... Thanks AMD. My finger salutes you!

 

[TheLostSwede]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1480173141204901890

 

[tony359]

"not fit for purpose"...

 

[eidairaman1]

After I just got a 3900X a few months ago because it was EOL for my 370... Thanks AMD. My finger salutes you!

And what specific Prime X370 do you have???

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3950 is supported

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[mama]

Why not ?

I dont want to spend more if I upgrade my 1600 to 5600 later this year (and entry level MB have shit audio chipset compared to my X370)

Why not? Well, it won't support a number of features of the chip. You'll be paying for something you can't fully utilise.

 

[Mussels]

Why not? Well, it won't support a number of features of the chip. You'll be paying for something you can't fully utilise.

As someone with a 3700x on x370, the only thing missing is a few PBO features... and most of those got added in with BIOS updates anyway.


Unless the VRM's hold you back, the only true feature loss from a newer AM4 CPU on an older board, is dropping to PCI-E 3.0

 

[Jism]

isnt there a limit which can be used according to power available? I dont know these boards so dont know what their VRMs can handle.

All boards with AM4 socket; can sustain 105W minimum. Even a 50$ board is capable of running the 5950X, a 16 core 32 thread top-end CPU.

It's just that; these VRM's obviously will run hot and while running at 90 degrees is perfectly fine, caps around it on the long run cant.

When i see boards with 16 fase VRM setup included like 900 amps or so; there's no CPU in the world consuming 900 amps, not even on LN2.

Lots of its is marketing gimmick you wont even use in all it's lifetime.

 

[eidairaman1]

All boards with AM4 socket; can sustain 105W minimum. Even a 50$ board is capable of running the 5950X, a 16 core 32 thread top-end CPU.

It's just that; these VRM's obviously will run hot and while running at 90 degrees is perfectly fine, caps around it on the long run cant.

When i see boards with 16 fase VRM setup included like 900 amps or so; there's no CPU in the world consuming 900 amps, not even on LN2.

Lots of its is marketing gimmick you wont even use in all it's lifetime.

Better to have it thsn not though, its like pcie increases every so often...

I just got a B550 Steel Legend for a R7 5800 with a TR ARO-M14G cooler.

That mobo is 14 phase, its a middle ground system with a higher cpu and 3600 ram.

 

[Jism]

Have you ever seen a server board? Either AMD or Intel? Did you ever notice such a large setup of VRM's or is the average just "4 phases" ? And while the TDP of such platforms is quite higher (280W), you never seen those things with 12, 14, 16 or even 20 phase setups?

Why do you think that is? Because a properly designed board can handle any CPU even with 2 phases. It just depends on the build quality, the used components (like higher grade or faster switching vrm's etc) and the traces. Seriously there's no need for a 14 phase vrm on a board lol.

And mind you those VRM's are designed for 24/7 usage and not your avg 8 hours a day.

It's just marketing gimmicks to thrive up the price; mobo vendors KNOW you would not in a 10 year ever need to tap into the full VRM's potential or capacity, yet they sell it with extreme pricing and you think you have a solid board, lol.

 

[trsttte]

Have you ever seen a server board? Either AMD or Intel? Did you ever notice such a large setup of VRM's or is the average just "4 phases" ? And while the TDP of such platforms is quite higher (280W), you never seen those things with 12, 14, 16 or even 20 phase setups?

Why do you think that is? Because a properly designed board can handle any CPU even with 2 phases. It just depends on the build quality, the used components (like higher grade or faster switching vrm's etc) and the traces. Seriously there's no need for a 14 phase vrm on a board lol.

And mind you those VRM's are designed for 24/7 usage and not your avg 8 hours a day.

It's just marketing gimmicks to thrive up the price; mobo vendors KNOW you would not in a 10 year ever need to tap into the full VRM's potential or capacity, yet they sell it with extreme pricing and you think you have a solid board, lol.

Have you ever seen the kind of cooling those boards and chassis have? And even the workload, more constant and less bursty.

Now, you're definitely rigth number of phases is a marketing term and there's no need for 10+ phases with good designs but there's a lot that goes into designing these boards. For example, desktop boards use larger heatsinks on the vrms because regular desktop coolers provide marginal airflow for the power delivery so they need to compensate for that, as they need to spread the load across multiple phases, as they need to use lower power phases with higher efficiency and better costs (because the cost of the board needs to be low contrary to server boards) etc etc etc

It's a big balancing act

 

[Jism]

The heat output of those server board VRM's is usually no more then 15 to 35W.

The cooling is purely because of the passive setup CPU's and GPU's have.

 

[xrror]

Junk might be going a bit too far, but some of the early boards lacked any kind of external clock control, which may or may not be an issue.

sorry yea, I came off a bit harsh - I didn't mean that all early boards were intentionally junk. No all early 3xx boards were early efforts and some models didn't luck out in their assumptions. That's kinda on AMD with the rushed launch.

And I mean, to be fair Ryzen was something entirely new and different - heck AMD controls a large part of what a mobo maker can do with the AEGSA chunks. It's a strange beast in retrospect - "here mobo maker, design your board to run this processor but you have to use this firmware chunk that even we keep changing around - oh and we're launching 2 months earlier than we last talked"

Thankfully despite that many boards (majority?) after a few firmware updates were totally awesome and fine. Others though... lets say they were quickly discontinued. Or in Asus's case (to their credit though!) only had some firmware updates after a model's successor B450 replacement came out. But I mean - credit they still update!

And to be clear I'm okay with that - that's the gamble you take with buying launch day platform. If you want the safe bet you wait. Even though I had (still having) some bad experiences with some early B350 boards from Asus doesn't mean I think Asus only makes junk (and lol looking up for this comment, I was amazed/impressed they actually have a 'Win11' firmware for it recently, so... good on them!). I might get irritated at MSI's messaging but I'm pretty sure they make some good boards too and I won't begrudge them for that.

But yea if sorry it came off as me bashing all early 3xx boards or at Asus and MSI - I treat everything on a "per model" for computer parts. All manufacturers have their good and ... less remembered (in retrospect) models.

added Vermeer support to the 3xx series they started doing it with the cheap A320 motherboards, while most X370 owners are still waiting

I actually hadn't seen this news until this thread - which... yea. Maybe it's easier to validate A320 boards since there's no official overclocking support?

 

[Mussels]

I actually hadn't seen this news until this thread - which... yea. Maybe it's easier to validate A320 boards since there's no official overclocking support?

I'm going with the "budget boards have less bloat" option, that theres simply more room left to install the updates.

Since my x370 just got 4000G series support in december, i'm leaning towards AMD genuinely trying to make this work

 

[sn2x]

I'd be more interested in them bringing back PCIe Gen4 to the 400-series, a feature that existed on some boards, but was prevented on later BIOS by AMD.

 

[Mussels]

I'd be more interested in them bringing back PCIe Gen4 to the 400-series, a feature that existed on some boards, but was prevented on later BIOS by AMD.

It was glitchy as all hell, and caused black screen crashes and USB dropout issues

They COULD bring it back as a default-off option for people to use similar to overclocking (at your own risk, etc) - but as a default option it was a bad idea