Creative Sound Blaster X4

[trsttte]

How come audio equipment is the single category of electronics where measurements are considered unnecessary?

Because it's one of the few categories of electronics where you're working with infinitesimal differences - like 0.001% vs 0.0004% vs 0.0008% THD from the x4 vs x3 vs schitt hel.

 

[NRANM]

Because it's one of the few categories of electronics where you're working with infinitesimal differences - like 0.001% vs 0.0004% vs 0.0008% THD from the x4 vs x3 vs schitt hel.

Assuming this is true, it would still mean that those differences are between those specific products. Or are you implying that all audio products measure this close to each other?

Regardless what the measurements show, they still should be disclosed. If the X4 indeed measures this closely to another, more expensive device, than it can be concluded that, at least within the scope of this testing methodology, the two products' performance is practically identical.

 

[Cutechri]

I'm not touching Creative anything again after woeful driver issues with one of their sound cards.

 

[stimpy88]

I always feel that any review of any Creative product is more of a marketing piece, than an actual review, where the device has been really tested and opened up and examined. With some, I just know they never had the hardware in their hands in the first place. (I am NOT saying that this is the case here). I just can't get over my knowledge of this company, it's contempt for its customers, tricking customers with false claims and specs, and it's well known shady business tactics in the past. I just don't trust them.

There is so much competition in this market, that I think these devices should be held up to a higher level of scrutiny than simply, it "sounds and looks great".

Again, this is not a personal attack.

 

[Fergutor]

I'm not touching Creative anything again after woeful driver issues with one of their sound cards.

I use continually Creative sound cards since 2006, the only issue I ever had was when going from one OS to another, that the driver didn't have all its features implemented, which eventually they fixed.

Sorry, perhaps I understood your original post wrong, you've mentioned connecting the speakers to the front port so that made me think you're connecting them to the (amplified) headphone output I don't have a Z-series sound card at my disposal but the loudness depends on the amplifier in your speakers, not your sound card. Assuming your speakers are connected to your sound card's analog line-out port, then the sound card takes your audio "file", coverts it from digital to analog (with its integrated DAC), and sends it the converted audio signal, now in analog form, to the amplifier in your speakers. The amplifier then amplifies the signal and reproduces it through the speaker drivers (this is a simplified overview of the audio chain). If your speaker system is connected to your sound card digitally (USB, TOSLINK, coax), then the sound card only serves as a transport (it "forwards" the audio signal to the DAC found in your speakers), but still does no amplification of the signal sent to the speakers. I'm not able find much info about the speaker system you've mentioned (was it Edifier C200?) so I'm not sure how you're connecting it. Some devices use a higher line out level but you won't generally find those in the world of PC audio (google consumer vs pro audio levels).

As for the Schiit products, they're an excellent choice for users who want a great headphone amplifier/powered speaker preamp (some models), and don't need other features a "real" sound card would offer, such as an microphone input, and a software driver with an EQ, audio profiles, virtual surround, Dolby processing, etc. For example, for $190 you can get the iFi Audio Zen DAC V2, a fantastic DAC/headphone amplifier, which sounds audibly better and is significantly more powerful than any Sound Blaster. But it's a one-trick pony, as it doesn't do anything other than output audio.

Haha, well english isn't my language, probably that's the issue...but I also never said I connected the speakers to the "front port", I said "how about the volume of the speaker output (especially the front)?", I meant the front speakers (in opposition to the surround, sub and central speakers), or specially for stereo speaker purposes.
Then, well, probably another misunderstanding, but yes this volume I'm talking about does depends on the device, not the speaker's pre-amp. Test for yourself: grab some self powered speaker and feed it with different devices (internal and external sound cards, featureless DACs, TV through HDMI as I did, then cellphones, old discman, etc, etc) and you will find out all of them have different volume. Especially useful is testing with computer sound devices, so you can put the OS (and device) volume at the same level and compare.
I know about the sound chain.
My speakers are, as I mentioned, connected as they should be: to the SB Z's front speakers output (not front output, not headphones output, not any other output). Of course when using the onboard and the SB Audigy SE (as my now dead X-Fi Xtreme Music) the front speakers output is the same jack as the headphones output and one must change that with the driver. In the case of the TV/monitor, simply selecting HDMI as the sound device and connecting the speakers to the headphone's output of the TV, and this is the only case where I'm not connecting the speakers to the correct place.
But anyway, when speakers amps (or rather pre amps) are quite hard to drive, knowing the sound card output strength is useful. Could be impedance, voltage...don't know. These Edifier C200 have a preamp section with a NE5532

, then goes to some sort of semi digital part that controls the volume with a mechanical encoder (also for input selection and bass/treble setting, can't remember the name of the chip that uses for all that, I have the schematics somewhere) then it goes to the amplifier section where the main component is a TDA7379 A/B amp. 1" Silk tweeters 6.5" woofers with some coating, can't remember. 38-20000 hz (if it's really like that don't know the +- value...must be high...hehe), somewhat big cabinets, 25+25 Watts, nice shielded switching power supply.
The question for the Schiit was to the other dude. The always present dude in every Creative article/review/news that tries to evangelize / sell their featureless products that aren't for the ones the mentioned Creative product is aimed at, and can't understand any of Creative's features apart from being completely incapable to grasp concepts beyond stereo, as much for output as for sources...

 

[Cutechri]

I use continually Creative sound cards since 2006, the only issue I ever had was when going from one OS to another, that the driver didn't have all its features implemented, which eventually they fixed.

Congrats, wish I could also have good experiences but that was a waste of 200 euros. And searching the issue online reveals that they still haven't fixed this problem.

 

[MikSands]

Congrats, wish I could also have good experiences but that was a waste of 200 euros. And searching the issue online reveals that they still haven't fixed this problem.

Yeah, I understand you... This week gave my X3 for warranty repair. That sound distortion was a pain for my ears...

 

[Erazor]

GC7 internals if anyone's interested.

 

[stimpy88]

GC7 internals if anyone's interested.

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I wonder who really makes those "creative" chips. I would put a months pay on them being a re-brand of something else, and the only thing "creative" about it is in software, like half their cards in the past.

 

[Fergutor]

I wonder who really makes those "creative" chips. I would put a months pay on them being a re-brand of something else, and the only thing "creative" about it is in software, like half their cards in the past.

...eeeh...explain please...What were all those EMU chips, Sound Core 3D, Super X-Fi, that were in most Sound Blaster products since...the 2000 or late90's?

 

[stimpy88]

...eeeh...explain please...What were all those EMU chips, Sound Core 3D, Super X-Fi, that were in most Sound Blaster products since...the 2000 or late90's?

Creative have re-branded chips in the past.

 

[Fergutor]

Creative have re-branded chips in the past.

Please don't just dismiss and be specific.

 

[stimpy88]

Please don't just dismiss and be specific.

They used to re-brand RealTek chips and pass them off as their own SoundBlaster chips, however it was simply a software driver.

 

[NRANM]

They used to re-brand RealTek chips and pass them off as their own SoundBlaster chips, however it was simply a software driver.

Citation needed.

 

[CityCultivator]

I wonder who really makes those "creative" chips. I would put a months pay on them being a re-brand of something else, and the only thing "creative" about it is in software, like half their cards in the past.

Put your money, I would not put mine.
These chips work independently from PC software, they are there for hardware processing when using consoles; third party software DSPs are unusable with consoles.

Now the chips might be some external designs bought by Creative, or even Creative contracted a third party in assisting them, but the customization to allow them to do specific Creative designed DSP processing must be done by Creative themselves.

 

[Fergutor]

They used to re-brand RealTek chips and pass them off as their own SoundBlaster chips, however it was simply a software driver.

Well, your response makes obvious what was suspected...and your preemptive strike ("Jeez do you need spoon-feeding everything to fit your pro creative narrative?") seals it.

Now you have even more to explain! haha

What pro creative narrative? Explain!! Asking for specifics is having a "pro whatever narrative"? Couldn't it be just asking for specifics to know what you are talking about, specifically, because of not knowing, because you are as vague as possible? If you have specifics and give them, and not basically nothing and just sounding like a simple mumbling hater, how that will fit a pro Creative narrative? On the contrary! It's as if for you, truths were more evident for the rest the more you hid them! HAHAHA the heck? (obviously it is just you having a strong anti Creative bias and taking a simple question as biased defense, or simply attacking, falsely accusing of bias to the other on purpose to hide yours).

Now, I was hoping you were talking about something else and not the Sound Blaster FX (becasue evidently that's what you are talking about...and still you don't want to say hahaha...) which as far as I know they NEVER tried to pass as a Creative chip, given you could see the chip brand in all the publicity photos! You can look the photos for yourself, there are still up there. And if you come with the absurd theory that they changed it now, here the proof, read the comment from the time they released it New Audigy Rx PCIe card | guru3D Forums
Now, why you do not want to mention the card? Some kind of superstition? Too disgusted by it? You vaguely remember the false critic and are just parroting it without knowing about it? haha Or simply too entitled and snob to think you have to explain what you are saying?

Just stop lying and attacking others for your biased hate.

 

[stimpy88]

Well, your response makes obvious what was suspected...and your preemptive strike ("Jeez do you need spoon-feeding everything to fit your pro creative narrative?") seals it.

Now you have even more to explain! haha

What pro creative narrative? Explain!! Asking for specifics is having a "pro whatever narrative"? Couldn't it be just asking for specifics to know what you are talking about, specifically, because of not knowing, because you are as vague as possible? If you have specifics and give them, and not basically nothing and just sounding like a simple mumbling hater, how that will fit a pro Creative narrative? On the contrary! It's as if for you, truths were more evident for the rest the more you hid them! HAHAHA the heck? (obviously it is just you having a strong anti Creative bias and taking a simple question as biased defense, or simply attacking, falsely accusing of bias to the other on purpose to hide yours).

Now, I was hoping you were talking about something else and not the Sound Blaster FX (becasue evidently that's what you are talking about...and still you don't want to say hahaha...) which as far as I know they NEVER tried to pass as a Creative chip, given you could see the chip brand in all the publicity photos! You can look the photos for yourself, there are still up there. And if you come with the absurd theory that they changed it now, here the proof, read the comment from the time they released it New Audigy Rx PCIe card | guru3D Forums
Now, why you do not want to mention the card? Some kind of superstition? Too disgusted by it? You vaguely remember the false critic and are just parroting it without knowing about it? haha Or simply too entitled and snob to think you have to explain what you are saying?

Just stop lying and attacking others for your biased hate.

In about 2009, Creative launched an audio solution called X-Fi MB. It was first marketed as SoundBlaster motherboard audio, and a few OEMs got onboard and launched a few motherboards featuring X-Fi branded chips and software drivers. However it was quickly revealed to be actually a standard Realtek codec, running a software emulation of Creatives own X-Fi technology, which was famous at the time, but in stand alone sound cards. It caused a lot of controversy at the time, and OEMs had to make it more clear that this was not infact a SoundBlaster sound card built in to the motherboard, but just software emulation, which was buggy and not compatible with many games at the time of launch, and lacked some of Creatives advanced 3D audio technologies, which rendered the feature redundant to gamers at the time.

 

[NRANM]

If a motherboard vendor has marketed its on-board audio as having Creative hardware, that is on that particular motherboard vendor for misleading/lying to its customers.

I don't remember claims that motherboard audio with licensed X-Fi MB software would be able to emulate all of the features X-Fi could handle natively. If there were such claims, please provide a link.

You are making the accusation here, so the burden of proof is on you.

 

[chrcoluk]

Really should have a hdmi input for sound, however if I remember right the X3 didnt even bother with spdif in either, so I guess follows on in been a cheap product sold at a mid end price range.

 

[Falkentyne]

Regarding the teardown: unfortunately it is not possible to get the PCB out of the case without breaking the device. It seems to be glued to it. Furthest you can get is to see the nearly completely empty bottom side of the PCB. As for the measurements, while I did do loopback tests and RMAA measurements in some of my previous sound card reviews, I stopped with that practice, because I found it pointless. Some users would cling to a certain number, completely ignoring the fact that it doesn't mean anything for the actual performance of the device. This is why I switched to in-depth testing with two powered speaker systems, and close to 10 different hi-fi headphones/gaming headsets, and describing the overall experience in great detail.



You shouldn't connect your speakers to anything other than line-level ports, to avoid amplifying the signal twice. Your speakers already have their own amplifier built-in so if you bring them a signal that's already been amplified (through the front headphone output, for example), the sound quality is going to degrade. You could also potentially cause damage, although this is going to happen only in extreme cases. As for the headphone output, the amplifier of the X4 has two gain settings, and it was powerful enough to drive all of my hi-fi headphones and gaming headsets at a sufficient volume, even when I wanted to listen to them LOUD.



That's correct, you need to buy the HDMI-optical converter separately, it is not supplied.



Honestly? The GC7 has more elaborate controls, a central display, and the option to bind its functions to C1-C4 buttons. The X4 has the SmartComms Kit. For all other intents and purposes, there's no noticeable difference between them. Including the sound quality. I'd buy the X4.



Same problem in my country (Croatia). I solved it by downloading the SXFI App APK manually. That won't help you if you have an iPhone, though... You bring a good point, I'll ask Creative what's up with the regional shenanigans.

Was it possible to remove the X3 PCB from the external case?

 

[JonM78]

There is little reason to buy this shit, instead a person should look into buying Schiit. A Fulla Schiit for less, a Hel Schiit for more power for cans that need it, or if you don't need a mic input, a Magni/Modi stack of Schiit.

Super X-Fi Battle Mode. If you are a FPS gamer then this is a must. Nothing Fulla offers in any DAC amp can compare.

 

[Jupit3r]

Creative is still the No.1 sound card maker, kudos to them!

 

[95Viper]

Stay on topic!
Stop the arguing, hate, toxicity, trolling, and insulting.
Please read and understand the guidelines.
Report the problems don't become one.
And, do not post off topic to instigate further arguing.
Thank You.

 

[CamoGeko]

GC7 internals if anyone's interested.

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I see cirrus logic but I don't see the actual AKM DAC chips. Hmm...

 

[firot]

Well, I recently purchased this unit and having some issues with it and found some bugs.

Audio sounds metallic when it first starts, going away if I use sound keeper. I'm suspecting this got broken after some windows update, so it is not in the review. I found this video on reddit: Creative Sound Blaster X4 metallic resonating sound on any notifications in windows - YouTube It is the same thing.

If I keep switching between modes with SXFI button (off, on, battle mode), sometimes audio become very distorted when SXFI off. It is going away if I change modes multiple times with the same button.

If I mute my microphone using the buttons on device the red ring starts blinking like expected. But if I go back to blue ring (sound control) and red ring back (mic control) ring does not blink even through mic is muted.

When SXFI enabled there is a slight distortion in the sound. For example, if I play the windows sound test effect it has a slight ringing in the background. It does not happen when sxfi off.

If I turn on the direct mode, my headset configuration is set to stereo as expected. But if I turn it off it does not remember the previous setting (which was 7.1) and stays at the stereo mode.

The creative software has problems. Sometimes UI does not reflect the real settings. Like if you change EQ from the buttons on the device UI can still show the old EQ. Also, sometimes it uses a full core for some reason when in background, goes away after closing the software.

Hope it helps anyone considers this unit. I'll try to update my post if any of the above issues are resolved. Even with the issues I still liked it, hoping they will fix those issues.