Internal Turmoil at Samsung Might Lead to Delay of QD-OLED Products in Retail

[TheLostSwede]

Samsung Electronics appears to have ended up in a pricing dispute with Samsung Display over the cost of QD-OLED panels, which could have the knock-on effect that Samsung branded QD-OLED displays might end up in retail later than anticipated. Samsung Electronics was set to launch its first QD-OLED TVs towards the middle of this year, but it seems like that might no longer be the case, unless the dispute can be resolved. The reason behind it, seems to be that LG Display's W-OLED panels are cheaper than Samsung Display's QD-OLED panels and Samsung Electronics doesn't want to pay a higher panel price.

It's unknown how much of a price difference there is, but The Elec is guessing it's around US$100 per panel. Considering Samsung Electronics appears to have bet heavily on QD-OLED, at least based on their CES 2022 announcements and that we're talking about premium TV's here, it doesn't seem like it would make that big of a difference. However, without knowing how competitive Samsung intended to be, it's possible that they wouldn't be able to compete with companies using W-OLED panels from LG Display. Maybe the most interesting part of this story is the fact that it mentions that Samsung Display is working on a 30-inch QD-OLED panel that they will supply Dell with, which is targeted towards computer monitors. So even if we might not see QD-OLED TV's when initially expected, we can at least hope for some high-end computer monitors with the tech later this year. Samsung Display is said to be producing QD-OLED substrates at a size of 2.2 x 2.5 metres at a rate of 30,000 units per month at the moment.



View at TechPowerUp Main Site

 

[Crackong]

Samsung is considering using cheaper LG panels instead of Samsung's own panels directly from their own factory ?

 

[bug]

Called it from day 1: if it's a more complicated piece on paper, it will be more expensive to make. As simple as that.

Fwiw, I also called higher power draw, but apparently we won't be able to probe that this year.

 

[R0H1T]

Samsung is considering using cheaper LG panels instead of Samsung's own panels directly from their own factory ?

Well Samsung display also sells their panels to Apple, Xiaomi, OnePlus et al directly competing with Samsung phones ~ so there's that.

 

[Chomiq]

Samsung is considering using cheaper LG panels instead of Samsung's own panels directly from their own factory ?

It's not "their own" factory. Samsung Display =/= Samsung Electronics. It's the same thing with LG. Both are independent divisions. That's why the first consumer QD-OLED TV will come from Sony instead of Samsung, Sony knows that they can eat the cost of the new panel because they will pass it on to consumer. Samsung Electronics wants to have a competitive product to LG's OLED and to that and actually make money they need the panel cost to, at least, match LG's offering.

 

[Ferrum Master]

Is this what we are seeing here called incest?

 

[bug]

Is this what we are seeing here called incest?

Just a plain case of jumping the gun.

 

[Vayra86]

Called it from day 1: if it's a more complicated piece on paper, it will be more expensive to make. As simple as that.

Fwiw, I also called higher power draw, but apparently we won't be able to probe that this year.

Soon... Samsung markets QLED as a quantum dot solution that really isn't what it is. Oh wait, this was supposed to be that step up to the real thing already

I always struggled to understand why LG would first win a drawn out patent war with a clear design win, only for Samsung to then reinvent the wheel but better and still at lower cost. If they could, they'd have done it to begin with.

In the meantime they tried micro leds which so far is going absolutely nowhere other than a buggy 'The Frame' that nobody wants on the wall, and a bunch of misleading QLED nonsense.

At least they're trying, but every time Samsung also hits the front page with some shady business to make it all happen. I'm staying away from this company now, because this 'losing battle' echoes in their product quality. The QLED TV I have is an absolute POS going from display quality to the menu to its smart functionality to simple functions on the remote that are buggy as hell (turn it off, it turns itself on again randomly), and that seems to be a trend with anything coming from Samsung Display. Quality happens only in the marketing ads, the final product is often lacking or just breaks shortly after warranty. And also... the plastic. Its everywhere and its not sturdy either.

The trend echoes in AMOLED, too, with its horribly short lifespan.

 

[Chomiq]

Is this what we are seeing here called incest?

More like siblings fighting

The QLED TV I have is an absolute POS going from display quality to the menu to its smart functionality to simple functions on the remote that are buggy as hell (turn it off, it turns itself on again randomly), and that seems to be a trend with anything coming from Samsung Display.

Once again, it's Samsung Electronics that makes the end product, i.e. TV.

 

[bug]

Soon... Samsung markets QLED as a quantum dot solution that really isn't what it is. Oh wait, this was supposed to be that step up to the real thing already

I always struggled to understand why LG would first win a drawn out patent war with a clear design win, only for Samsung to then reinvent the wheel but better and still at lower cost. If they could, they'd have done it to begin with.

In the meantime they tried micro leds which so far is going absolutely nowhere other than a buggy 'The Frame' that nobody wants on the wall, and a bunch of misleading QLED nonsense.

At least they're trying, but every time Samsung also hits the front page with some shady business to make it all happen. I'm staying away from this company now, because this 'losing battle' echoes in their product quality. The QLED TV I have is an absolute POS going from display quality to the menu to its smart functionality to simple functions on the remote that are buggy as hell (turn it off, it turns itself on again randomly), and that seems to be a trend with anything coming from Samsung Display. Quality happens only in the marketing ads, the final product is often lacking or just breaks shortly after warranty. And also... the plastic. Its everywhere and its not sturdy either.

The trend echoes in AMOLED, too, with its horribly short lifespan.

Agreed, but I want to correct your blaming of Samsung Display for the quality of QLED TVs. Performance of a panel is mostly dictated by the control electronics, so the culprit here is probably Samsung Electronics.
I don't think Samsung sells QLED panels to 3rd parties, but looking at LG, there are instances when the same panel makes a better monitor in the hands of other manufacturers (e.g. Dell). Like I said, it's more about the execution that it is about the panel.

Edit: ninja'd

 

[trsttte]

I know they're different entities but this still sounds stupid as fuck. Dell and Sony will be the first to debut products with QD-OLED and as such get a fair part of the publicity from a Samsung-mega-corp development but hey, who cares about brand recognition am I right?

At least they're also kicking production of ~30 inch panels so we might see some regular size high quality monitors soon, since everyone else is dragging their feets pushing the same old crappy tech (some form or another of ips/va with sub par contrast with barely any local dimming, but hey at least they're pushing beyond 300hz, because that's the most important...)

 

[bug]

I know they're different entities but this still sounds stupid as fuck. Dell and Sony will be the first to debut products with QD-OLED and as such get a fair part of the publicity from a Samsung-mega-corp development but hey, who cares about brand recognition am I right?

It seems like you fail to realize how conglomerates work. LGSamsung Display couldn't care less who brings the first QD-LED TVs to the market. They care about making QD-LED panels. And selling them for profit.
And this works the other way, too: failing to sell their products for profit, LG had no problem shutting down their mobile division. No holes in the sky have been reported because if that.

Mostly unrelated, but this is why Google reorganized their various divisions under the Alphabet umbrella: everyone else was piggybacking on Google's (the search engine) success. And they wanted division to stand on their own.

Edit: Corrected, thanks @TheLostSwede

 

[trsttte]

It seems like you fail to realize how conglomerates work. LG Display couldn't care less who brings the first QD-LED TVs to the market. They care about making QD-LED panels. And selling them for profit.
And this works the other way, too: failing to sell their products for profit, LG had no problem shutting down their mobile division. No holes in the sky have been reported because if that.

Mostly unrelated, but this is why Google reorganized their various divisions under the Alphabet umbrella: everyone else was piggybacking on Google's (the search engine) success. And they wanted division to stand on their own.

Yeah I know, I still hold some naive notion that c-suite execs care about some long term vision of being able to offer and recognized for better products which of course is not true. It makes short term business sense to let sony get the publicity and bear the higher costs but it still sounds stupid to me.

 

[TheLostSwede]

It seems like you fail to realize how conglomerates work. LG Display couldn't care less who brings the first QD-LED TVs to the market. They care about making QD-LED panels. And selling them for profit.
And this works the other way, too: failing to sell their products for profit, LG had no problem shutting down their mobile division. No holes in the sky have been reported because if that.

Mostly unrelated, but this is why Google reorganized their various divisions under the Alphabet umbrella: everyone else was piggybacking on Google's (the search engine) success. And they wanted division to stand on their own.

Just one little thing, LG makes W-OLED, not QD-OLED

 

[Tomorrow]

I believe Samsung Display currently makes 3 sizes of QD-OLED: 65" and 55" for TV's and 34" intended for UltraWide monitors. Not sure where the supposed 30" info comes from.
Also here's hoping this does not effect 3rd party designs using these panels from reaching the market in Q2. Alienware 34" monitor and Sony's A95 TV if im not mistaken.

 

[trsttte]

I believe Samsung Display currently makes 3 sizes of QD-OLED: 65" and 55" for TV's and 34" intended for UltraWide monitors. Not sure where the supposed 30" info comes from.
Also here's hoping this does not effect 3rd party designs using these panels from reaching the market in Q2. Alienware 34" monitor and Sony's A95 TV if im not mistaken.

Going by the 2.2m x 2.5m glass size they might be using a gen 8/8.5 fab which can be cut into 3x 65'' + 6x 32''

[Learn Display] 31. Mother Glass & Generation

A substrate that serves as a foundation for display is essential to manufacture a display. ‘Mother Glass’ refers to a large piece of glass that lays the groundwork for display production. The mother glass is classified into different generations depending on their sizes. Panels that...

global.samsungdisplay.com

 

[konga]

The most exciting part of this news story is the possibility of a 30" display using this new tech. 30" is typically a 16:10 panel. I'm guessing it'll be a 2560x1600 60hz productivity/content creation display, but what if it's a high-refresh 3840x2400 display? *drool*

 

[trsttte]

The most exciting part of this news story is the possibility of a 30" display using this new tech. 30" is typically a 16:10 panel. I'm guessing it'll be a 2560x1600 60hz productivity/content creation display, but what if it's a high-refresh 3840x2400 display? *drool*

The first monitor set to launch is an Alienware ultra wide because they can dilute the higher price with the curved ultra wide and gaming! markups. I'm sure other monitors will use similar tactics, this tech is surely going to be expensive (I still believe not as bad as FALD/micro led but let's wait and see) so higher margin products are due first (4k, hdr, high refresh gaming stuff).

QD-OLED also offers the same instant response time advantages of OLED so yeah *drool*, i'm hoping for finally a monitor worth buying.

 

[Chomiq]

Some details on QD-OLED tech:

 

[trsttte]

I just read this rumour over at notebookcheck that the Alienware QD-OLED ultrawide will be launching next spring at 1299$! For a new ultra wide, with high refresh rate, with a new oled based tech!

34-inch Alienware quantum dot OLED monitor will cost you $1299 when it launches this Spring

Dell had been mum about the exact price of its upcoming Alienware AW3423DW monitor ever since its initial reveal at CES 2022. Now, we finally have an official retail price and launch window for when consumers can get their hands on the 34-inch QD-OLED display.

www.notebookcheck.net

If the 30'' monitors mentioned here pan out, by usual market rates going for something like 899$ or 999$ looks to me like a game changer!

 

[Tomorrow]

I just read this rumour over at notebookcheck that the Alienware QD-OLED ultrawide will be launching next spring at 1299$! For a new ultra wide, with high refresh rate, with a new oled based tech!

34-inch Alienware quantum dot OLED monitor will cost you $1299 when it launches this Spring

Dell had been mum about the exact price of its upcoming Alienware AW3423DW monitor ever since its initial reveal at CES 2022. Now, we finally have an official retail price and launch window for when consumers can get their hands on the 34-inch QD-OLED display.

www.notebookcheck.net

If the 30'' monitors mentioned here pan out, by usual market rates going for something like 899$ or 999$ looks to me like a game changer!

*This* spring. But 1300 is acceptable for a monitor. Especially for OLED one. Alienware generally commands price premium over most others. I image AOC etc using this panel would cost even less.

 

[konga]

Dell confirmed that price directly to the press, so it's real. That's a great price for a flagship display using a new technology. That video linked above explained how QD-OLED is theoretically easier to manufacture than W-OLED. I imagine that once Samsung refines the panel manufacturing process and scales it up, prices will go down quite a bit.

 

[Chomiq]

@trsttte
March 29th in US, April 5th in UK and EU.

1300 for a true OLED is a steal, especially with burn-in covered for at least 3 years.

Edit.
Confirmed by Alienware:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1492271181982060551

 

[Vayra86]

I just read this rumour over at notebookcheck that the Alienware QD-OLED ultrawide will be launching next spring at 1299$! For a new ultra wide, with high refresh rate, with a new oled based tech!

34-inch Alienware quantum dot OLED monitor will cost you $1299 when it launches this Spring

Dell had been mum about the exact price of its upcoming Alienware AW3423DW monitor ever since its initial reveal at CES 2022. Now, we finally have an official retail price and launch window for when consumers can get their hands on the 34-inch QD-OLED display.

www.notebookcheck.net

If the 30'' monitors mentioned here pan out, by usual market rates going for something like 899$ or 999$ looks to me like a game changer!

GTFO
I need a solid review on this asap
Would definitely drop 1K for a durable oled monitor...

 

[trsttte]

*This* spring

Cultural differences, both mean the same