HELP!!! Core i7-10750H throttle POWER red issue + fans loud

[Yang055]

Hi,

New ThrottleStop User here seek help, Using a MSI GS 65 with I7-10750H CPU @ 2.60GHz NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 with Max-Q Design and 16GB RAM.

Sorry for some of the Chinese interface/Bad Grammar here. English isn't my first language

I just download this software when I start to experiencing fps drop issue during my World of Warship game, where the fans went very loud minutes into the game, despite my CPU/GPU usage are not very high and temperature is normal, The fan speed won't get back to normal even after I quit the game and everything else and CPU/GPU usage in 3~5%.

I followed the internet and tried set the battery plan in balance mod, restart my laptop and change minimum processor state to 50% when charging, no luck so far.

So I download this software (9.4) and notice that there is a red POWER hint flashing near the Limits, when click the Limits, I notice that PL2 in Core and EDP Other in RING keep getting red/yellow. If I unplug my charger at this state, I will get EDP Other Red in all Core, GPU and RING

This can be solved by check the "Disable Turbo", but my fans won't back to normal speed. And game fps won't back to 76 and stuck in 30~43fps.

I also notice that the BD PROCHOT will go red in both Core and GPU if I check the "BD PROCHOT", and the CPU Speed were locked at 0.8GHz instead of around 2.6GHz~3.6GHz that result game fps further dropped to 20, not sure if this may be the issue here. Edit: The “BD PROCHOT” red will only appear when I am couple minutes into World of Warship or GTA 5 (both on Steam) and check the BD PROCHOT will make the red appear in limitation, and seem that once the fans start to work in high speed, no change in "disable turbo" or "BD PROCHOT" can slow it down.

Record shows PL2 and EDP Other Issue

All the EDP Other will be red when I unplug the charger

Both Fans start working in very high speed (7000+RPM) minutes into World of Warship/GTA5

If BD PROCHOT is checked, there are in red also.

Here are my TPL and FIVR settings

Sorry for the long post, I am getting despair at this point, really appreciate all your helps.

Edit: Get TVB red in Limits at Start-up too, only disappear after "Disable Turbo" being checked, and will disappear and in yellow in couple minutes

 

[unclewebb]

The 10750H has a 45W TDP power rating from Intel.

Intel® Core™ i7-10750H Processor (12M Cache, up to 5.00 GHz) Product Specifications

Intel® Core™ i7-10750H Processor (12M Cache, up to 5.00 GHz) quick reference guide including specifications, features, pricing, compatibility, design documentation, ordering codes, spec codes and more.

ark.intel.com

MSI set the long term PL1 power limit to 65W and they set the short term PL2 power limit to 135W. That creates more heat than the cooling system can dissipate. The result is either power limit throttling or thermal throttling. Many gaming laptops that include an Nvidia GPU have the same problem.

At 66W, your CPU is too hot. To avoid thermal throttling, try setting PL1 to 60W or 55W. You can set PL2 to 70W or 80W but reduce the turbo time limit from 28 seconds down to about 8 seconds. If the cooling system cannot handle 70W or 80W for 8 seconds then maybe you will have to reduce the turbo time limit further down to 4 seconds. Check both the PL1 and PL2 Clamp options to make sure your reduced power limits are enforced.

Instead of reducing the power limits, some people like to use ThrottleStop to run their CPUs slower than their rated speed. In the TPL window check the Speed Shift box and set Speed Shift Max to 40 instead of 50. A slower CPU will run cooler. This setting allows you full control over the maximum speed of your CPU. I do not recommend checking Disable Turbo. This reduces performance too much.

Gaming laptops do not have batteries that can fully power an Intel CPU and a Nvidia GPU. Both the CPU and GPU are forced to throttle when running on battery power. This helps protect the battery. Avoid switching to battery power when stress testing or playing a game. Your laptop needs to be plugged in for maximum performance. Many laptop batteries are only designed for light internet use.

Some laptops only use BD PROCHOT throttling when switching from plugged in to battery power. This severe throttling down to 800 MHz might only last 5 seconds or so to protect the battery. This type of throttling is OK. If your laptop uses constant BD PROCHOT throttling when plugged in then I would clear the BD PROCHOT box in ThrottleStop to disable this.

Check the MMIO Lock box in the TPL window. This disables the secondary set of power limits which are not necessary.

To try and improve cooling you would need to take your laptop apart and replace the thermal paste. Some people use liquid metal which is probably not the safest thing to be using inside of most laptops but it usually improves cooling.

Unfortunately, MSI has Locked out CPU voltage control in the FIVR window. If this was not locked, you could reduce the voltage which could lower the temperatures by 10°C. Some users have modified two UEFI variables to unlock CPU voltage control. Not sure if this is possible with your laptop. Here is how to do this on many Dell laptops.

Undervolting 2020 Dell Laptops like the Vostro 7500 and More Tips to Improve Thermals, Battery Life, and Speed - Brendan Greenley

2021 Update: Based on post and Reddit comments, the approach to unlock undervolting works for a number of models, including the XPS, Inspiron, G5, 11th Generation Intel processors, and 2021 Dell models and other lines. If it works for you, please leave a comment below so others may know...

brendangreenley.com

TVB flashing red indicates Thermal Velocity Boost throttling. Locking the CPU voltage control register also locks TVB so there is no way to disable TVB throttling while the CPU is locked. This only slows the CPU down 100 MHz so it is not a big problem.

Both Fans start working in very high speed (7000+RPM)

Not sure why gaming laptops are so popular. Fans running at 7000 rpm would drive me crazy. Lower the PL1 and PL2 power limits and maybe the fans will slow down.

 

[Yang055]

Hi UncleWebb,

First of all, thank you so much for your reply! This issue is driving me crazy.

I have adjust my PL1/PL2, MMIO and lower the Speed Shift according, but unfortunately the problem seems to be there still as my laptop fans went to 7000 RPM when game started and continue to do so despite game being closed, I've tried scan virus for my entire laptop, which using 100% cpu, but not experiencing the same problem, the problem seems to ONLY occur when I start any steam games, before I start the game the laptop rans perfectly normal, but once game started, no matter i close the game or not, my laptop will get throttled and fans never rest until a laptop restart, which is very weird to me.

Limits are POWER and PL2 for core, GPU and EDP Other for RING again.

May I ask what should I do in this situation? is it a pure cooling hardware issue? I haven't got my fans checked in 3~4 months.

And sorry for a typo mistake that I'm using a GS66 instead of GS65, I chose game laptop because I already have another laptop for school/work, and a desktop isn't ideal for me since I need move around a lot as I got admitted into different schools (for college, master, PHD) then jobs at different locations.

The 10750H has a 45W TDP power rating from Intel.

Intel® Core™ i7-10750H Processor (12M Cache, up to 5.00 GHz) Product Specifications

Intel® Core™ i7-10750H Processor (12M Cache, up to 5.00 GHz) quick reference guide including specifications, features, pricing, compatibility, design documentation, ordering codes, spec codes and more.

ark.intel.com

MSI set the long term PL1 power limit to 65W and they set the short term PL2 power limit to 135W. That creates more heat than the cooling system can dissipate. The result is either power limit throttling or thermal throttling. Many gaming laptops that include an Nvidia GPU have the same problem.

View attachment 236585

At 66W, your CPU is too hot. To avoid thermal throttling, try setting PL1 to 60W or 55W. You can set PL2 to 70W or 80W but reduce the turbo time limit from 28 seconds down to about 8 seconds. If the cooling system cannot handle 70W or 80W for 8 seconds then maybe you will have to reduce the turbo time limit further down to 4 seconds. Check both the PL1 and PL2 Clamp options to make sure your reduced power limits are enforced.

Instead of reducing the power limits, some people like to use ThrottleStop to run their CPUs slower than their rated speed. In the TPL window check the Speed Shift box and set Speed Shift Max to 40 instead of 50. A slower CPU will run cooler. This setting allows you full control over the maximum speed of your CPU. I do not recommend checking Disable Turbo. This reduces performance too much.

Gaming laptops do not have batteries that can fully power an Intel CPU and a Nvidia GPU. Both the CPU and GPU are forced to throttle when running on battery power. This helps protect the battery. Avoid switching to battery power when stress testing or playing a game. Your laptop needs to be plugged in for maximum performance. Many laptop batteries are only designed for light internet use.

Some laptops only use BD PROCHOT throttling when switching from plugged in to battery power. This severe throttling down to 800 MHz might only last 5 seconds or so to protect the battery. This type of throttling is OK. If your laptop uses constant BD PROCHOT throttling when plugged in then I would clear the BD PROCHOT box in ThrottleStop to disable this.

Check the MMIO Lock box in the TPL window. This disables the secondary set of power limits which are not necessary.

To try and improve cooling you would need to take your laptop apart and replace the thermal paste. Some people use liquid metal which is probably not the safest thing to be using inside of most laptops but it usually improves cooling.

Unfortunately, MSI has Locked out CPU voltage control in the FIVR window. If this was not locked, you could reduce the voltage which could lower the temperatures by 10°C. Some users have modified two UEFI variables to unlock CPU voltage control. Not sure if this is possible with your laptop. Here is how to do this on many Dell laptops.

Undervolting 2020 Dell Laptops like the Vostro 7500 and More Tips to Improve Thermals, Battery Life, and Speed - Brendan Greenley

2021 Update: Based on post and Reddit comments, the approach to unlock undervolting works for a number of models, including the XPS, Inspiron, G5, 11th Generation Intel processors, and 2021 Dell models and other lines. If it works for you, please leave a comment below so others may know...

brendangreenley.com

TVB flashing red indicates Thermal Velocity Boost throttling. Locking the CPU voltage control register also locks TVB so there is no way to disable TVB throttling while the CPU is locked. This only slows the CPU down 100 MHz so it is not a big problem.


Not sure why gaming laptops are so popular. Fans running at 7000 rpm would drive me crazy. Lower the PL1 and PL2 power limits and maybe the fans will slow down.

 

[unclewebb]

7000 RPM

If your fans go to 7000 RPM and get stuck at that speed and never go back to normal speed then that is a problem with your laptop. Are you using the latest available BIOS version?

ThrottleStop shows that the thermal throttling temperature is set to 95°C and your CPU reached 98°C. That means you need to keep lowering your turbo power limits. Set both PL1 and PL2 to 50W and check both the PL1 Clamp option and check the PL2 Clamp option. Maybe you will be able to game at 50W without triggering thermal throttling. Maybe only 45W. Any thermal throttling might be what triggers the fans to go to 7000 RPM and get stuck at that speed.

 

[Yang055]

If your fans go to 7000 RPM and get stuck at that speed and never go back to normal speed then that is a problem with your laptop. Are you using the latest available BIOS version?

ThrottleStop shows that the thermal throttling temperature is set to 95°C and your CPU reached 98°C. That means you need to keep lowering your turbo power limits. Set both PL1 and PL2 to 50W and check both the PL1 Clamp option and check the PL2 Clamp option. Maybe you will be able to game at 50W without triggering thermal throttling. Maybe only 45W. Any thermal throttling might be what triggers the fans to go to 7000 RPM and get stuck at that speed.

Hi UncleWebb
Thanks again for the fast reply! And Sorry if I'm asking a dumb question, how do I check if my BIOS is the latest? I'm using American Megatrends Inc. E16V1MS.112, 2020/11/19, and on the MSI Official website: https://www.msi.com/Laptop/GS66-Stealth-10SFS/support#down-bios, it says: E16V1IMS.112 but Release date 2020/12/18 as I just checked. Does this means I am(or am not) using the latest version available?

And Yeah the fans 7000 RPM issue is still there after tried the PL1/PL2 Setting option, Limit being PL2 and EDP Other again. May I also ask what can be the root cause of it? Is something inside laptop broken? like the motherboard or fans?

 

[rethcirE]

The thermal paste between IHS and CPU is likely inadequate or dried up. Replacing the thermal paste on both CPU and GPU might help significantly if i'ts never been done. The variance between cores (87-98C) is too great, there is uneven coverage either due to bad mounting or inadeqte paste. This is fairly common, if not standard in most laptops.

 

[unclewebb]

BIOS

Looks like you are using the latest BIOS version. Sometimes the date programmed into the BIOS might be slightly different compared to the date it is first hosted on a website for download. The version number appears to be the same as what you have installed now. It is never a good sign when no BIOS updates have been released for more than a year.

the root cause

The root cause is probably too powerful of a CPU installed in a thin chassis with barely adequate cooling. Did running your CPU at a maximum of 50W prevent it from reaching 95°C?

When you use ThrottleStop to lower the PL1 and PL2 power limits, you will see PL1 or PL2 lighting up red in Limit Reasons more often. This is just telling you why your CPU is throttling. Lowering the power limits is a trick to deliberately throttle your CPU to try and prevent it from overheating.

I agree with @rethcirE that replacing the thermal paste is something to try.

the fans 7000 RPM issue is still there

Sounds like a poorly engineered laptop. There might be a bug in the BIOS that allows the fans to ramp up to full speed but never gets around to reducing the fan speed back to normal. Your laptop might have to be completely idle for 5 or 10 minutes until it cools down and the fans return to normal speed. This might never happen if the fan curve is not programmed correctly. Do you have any MSI fan control software running on your computer? Many gaming laptops include software like this so you can adjust the fan curve yourself.

 

[Yang055]

The thermal paste between IHS and CPU is likely inadequate or dried up. Replacing the thermal paste on both CPU and GPU might help significantly if i'ts never been done. The variance between cores (87-98C) is too great, there is uneven coverage either due to bad mounting or inadeqte paste. This is fairly common, if not standard in most laptops.

Thanks for your reply sir, is there anyway to replace/refill the thermal paste? I purchased this laptop in a Bestbuy and I think my warranty is still in effect

 

[unclewebb]

If your laptop is still under warranty, take it back to BestBuy and ask them why your fans are spinning at 7000 RPM.

They can replace the thermal paste there but I prefer doing this job myself so I know that it is done correctly.

 

[Yang055]

Again thanks for your reply Unclewebb, Just tried one game in World of Warship, no fps drop issue and fans act around 4000 RPM, it appears the temperature is 97 Celsius at one point but i don't know if it happens before or after my adjustment. The PL2 and EDP Other are still there in Yellow.

I do have a Dragon Center as recommended by MSI, but it appears to be outdated, and I will try download a latest version and to manually adjust my fans, but I guess in order to completely solve this problem i will still need go seek help from technicians am I right?

Looks like you are using the latest BIOS version. Sometimes the date programmed into the BIOS might be slightly different compared to the date it is first hosted on a website for download. The version number appears to be the same as what you have installed now. It is never a good sign when no BIOS updates have been released for more than a year.


The root cause is probably too powerful of a CPU installed in a thin chassis with barely adequate cooling. Did running your CPU at a maximum of 50W prevent it from reaching 95°C?

When you use ThrottleStop to lower the PL1 and PL2 power limits, you will see PL1 or PL2 lighting up red in Limit Reasons more often. This is just telling you why your CPU is throttling. Lowering the power limits is a trick to deliberately throttle your CPU to try and prevent it from overheating.

I agree with @rethcirE that replacing the thermal paste is something to try.


Sounds like a poorly engineered laptop. There might be a bug in the BIOS that allows the fans to ramp up to full speed but never gets around to reducing the fan speed back to normal. Your laptop might have to be completely idle for 5 or 10 minutes until it cools down and the fans return to normal speed. This might never happen if the fan curve is not programmed correctly. Do you have any MSI fan control software running on your computer? Many gaming laptops include software like this so you can adjust the fan curve yourself.

 

[unclewebb]

no fps drop issue and fans act around 4000 RPM

If your laptop runs OK then you do not have to do anything.

That picture shows that even at 50W, your CPU is still getting too hot. The 10750H has a 45W TDP rating so it is likely that MSI engineered a heatsink and fan capable of dissipating 45W and that is it. Setting the PL1 and PL2 power limits higher than this is not a good idea if the cooling cannot handle that extra heat.

If you want better performance or more consistent performance, you might have to reduce the power limits further. Either that or you need to replace the thermal paste. If you get a tech at BestBuy to do this job, your laptop might not be any better. It might be worse. It depends on what thermal paste they use and how much experience they have doing this job. Replacing the thermal paste is a fairly simple job but it is easy to screw up if you do not know what you are doing. Thermal paste pump out is a common problem with some pastes.

 

[(00)]

The MSI "Dragon Center", maybe in"Game Mode", which sets the fans to the "Performance" fan profile (and *may* turn on "Cooler Boost" too). Open "Dragon Center"and uncheck "Game Mode".

 

[Yang055]

If your laptop runs OK then you do not have to do anything.

View attachment 236627

That picture shows that even at 50W, your CPU is still getting too hot. The 10750H has a 45W TDP rating so it is likely that MSI engineered a heatsink and fan capable of dissipating 45W and that is it. Setting the PL1 and PL2 power limits higher than this is not a good idea if the cooling cannot handle that extra heat.

If you want better performance or more consistent performance, you might have to reduce the power limits further. Either that or you need to replace the thermal paste. If you get a tech at BestBuy to do this job, your laptop might not be any better. It might be worse. It depends on what thermal paste they use and how much experience they have doing this job. Replacing the thermal paste is a fairly simple job but it is easy to screw up if you do not know what you are doing. Thermal paste pump out is a common problem with some pastes.

Thanks for your advice again unclewebb, just lowered to 45W and get my temperature at 95C now. At right now when it only rans dragon center and steam (no game), its' temperature is at 70C so there definitely is some sort of heating problem at this moment, I guess i'll try the thermal paste option and see if it will work, thanks for your help and time again.

The MSI "Dragon Center", maybe in"Game Mode", which sets the fans to the "Performance" fan profile (and *may* turn on Cooler Boost too). Open "Dragon Center"and uncheck "Game Mode".

My thanks to you too sir, just changed it to balance mode and I'll see what happened if i start in/close out game. But I couldn't find where i can adjust fans option, it seems my MSI Dragon Center lack few options compare with the one on the MSI website download page, I've tried the uninstall-and-clean-install methods through googling but get no luck so far. May I ask if there is options I may try to fix that?

 

[(00)]

Thanks for your advice again unclewebb, just lowered to 45W and get my temperature at 95C now. At right now when it only rans dragon center and steam (no game), its' temperature is at 70C so there definitely is some sort of heating problem at this moment, I guess i'll try the thermal paste option and see if it will work, thanks for your help and time again.

My thanks to you too sir, just changed it to balance mode and I'll see what happened if i start in/close out game. But I couldn't find where i can adjust fans option, it seems my MSI Dragon Center lack few options compare with the one on the MSI website download page, I've tried the uninstall-and-clean-install methods through googling but get no luck so far. May I ask if there is options I may try to fix that?

MSI Dragon Center Download Center

MSI Dragon Center Download webpage

www.msi.com

http://download.msi.com/archive/mnu_exe/mb/DRAGONCENTER2.pdf

The "Balanced" fan profile should be fine. But, you may want to try out the "Customize" fan profile.

45C 60C 70C 100C 125C 150C

(00)

 

[Yang055]

MSI Dragon Center Download Center

MSI Dragon Center Download webpage

www.msi.com

http://download.msi.com/archive/mnu_exe/mb/DRAGONCENTER2.pdf

The "Balanced" fan profile should be fine. But, you may want to try out the "Customize" fan profile.

45C 60C 70C 100C 125C 150C

(00)

Hi sir, Thanks for your tips

Unfortunately that didn't fix my problem, I am using the latest dragon center from this link, (since my laptop doesn't support Dragon center 2/MSI center). Seems features/options are still missing, any clue?

 

[(00)]

Hi sir, Thanks for your tips

Unfortunately that didn't fix my problem, I am using the latest dragon center from this link, (since my laptop doesn't support Dragon center 2/MSI center). Seems features/options are still missing, any clue?



View attachment 236662

I am sorry, but I can not read Chinese. "Dragon Center" handles *all* fan control for MSI GS laptops, but the fan settings are stored in Windows. Reload and save, the MSI Bios defaults. Then do a clean install of Windows.

Or, you could try this MSI "SilentOption" fan control software, *after* uninstalling "Dragon Center":

http://download.msi.com/uti_exe/SilentOption_v1.0.1603.3101.zip

And, what version of GS65 do you have??? GS65-422, GS65-483 or GS65-478 ???? All of these use your processor (i7-10750H) and gpu (Nvidia RTX 2070).

But, you may have a hardware problem *not* a software one. Re-paste the CPU or reduce power until your happy with it.

(00)

 

[Yang055]

I am sorry, but I can not read Chinese. "Dragon Center" handles *all* fan control for MSI GS laptops, but the fan settings are stored in Windows. Reload and save, the MSI Bios defaults. Then do a clean install of Windows.

Or, you could try this MSI "SilentOption" fan control software, *after* uninstalling "Dragon Center":

http://download.msi.com/uti_exe/SilentOption_v1.0.1603.3101.zip

And, what version of GS65 do you have??? GS65-422, GS65-483 or GS65-478 ???? All of these use your processor (i7-10750H) and gpu (Nvidia RTX 2070).

But, you may have a hardware problem *not* a software one. Re-paste the CPU or reduce power until your happy with it.

(00)

Hi Sir,

Again sorry for my Chinese interface and real appreciate your help, I am using GS66 Stealth 10SF, and missing "User scenario" and "General Setting" when compare with the one displayed on the Dragon Center Official page: https://www.msi.com/Landing/dragon-center-download, (On the left there are translated to Performance overview, True Color and Mystic Light)

and even more unfortunate is that, after I uninstalled Dragon center, it appears that this link: http://download.msi.com/uti_exe/SilentOption_v1.0.1603.3101.zip won't start the download for me...

 

[(00)]

So, you *do not* have a GS65, but a GS66. It looks like the problem you are having with "Dragon Center" is all of your MSI Services are *NOT* set to Automatic or may not even be installed.

These are the 2 MSI Services you must have running to get all of your options (View attachments below)

So, you will need to *completely uninstall* Dragon Center, reinstall it and reboot.

That should bring up the missing options. !! DO NOT install "Dragon Center" without first *uninstalling* the old Dragon Center first. It will not work if you install over top the old version.

You will also need to start Dragon Center as "Administrator".

I am going to bed. Good night.

(00)

 

[Yang055]

So, you *do not* have a GS65, but a GS66. It looks like the problem you are having with "Dragon Center" is all of your MSI Services are *NOT* set to Automatic or may not even be installed.

These are the 2 MSI Services you must have running to get all of your options (View attachments below)

So, you will need to *completely uninstall* Dragon Center, reinstall it and reboot.

That should bring up the missing options. !! DO NOT install "Dragon Center" without first *uninstalling* the old Dragon Center first. It will not work if you install over top the old version.

You will also need to start Dragon Center as "Administrator".

I am going to bed. Good night.

(00)

That successfully solved my problem!!! Thank you sir! Hope you had a good sleep : )