Intel Unintentionally Shares 700-Series Chipset Spec

[TheLostSwede]

In an updated datasheet, which is currently still available online, Intel seemingly forgot to remove the specs of its upcoming Z790, H770 and B760 chipsets. The changes are fairly minor, although we obviously don't know if Intel are planning any changes on the CPU side in terms of connectivity. However, this is a surprising slipup from Intel's side and we've confirmed that the specs listed are indeed correct for the upcoming 700-series chipsets. The H610 chipset won't be getting an updated replacement though, but this seems to be par for course when it comes to Intel and its chipset updates.

Starting from the top, the Z790 chipset will see a move from 12 to 20 PCIe 4.0 lanes, while at the same time seeing a reduction in PCIe 3.0 lanes by half, from 16 to eight. Intel will also add an additional USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 (20 Gbps) lane. The H770 gets a bump from 12 to 16 PCIe 4.0 and drops from 12 to eight PCIe 3.0 lanes. Finally the B760 chipset gets a bump from six to 10 PCIe 4.0 lanes, but also has its PCIe 3.0 lane count cut in half, from eight to four. No other changes seem to be planned, at least not based on the Intel spec sheet. It's worth pointing out that we're talking maximum lane count here, since the HSIO is flexible and it's up to the motherboard makers how to implement the various options. Out of the 38 HSIO lanes, the Z690 chipset has 10 dedicated lanes for USB 3.2, with the rest supporting PCIe in combination with either SATA and/or Gigabit Ethernet on a further 10 and this doesn't seem to change for the Z790 chipset.



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[ratirt]

I love the highlight. 'Unintentionally' is the best.

 

[Nanochip]

So still no native USB4 solution on z790? Still optional?

I wonder if AMD X670 will have native USB4 as standard, or if manufacturers will have the choice not to include a USB4 port, similar to the Intel side where manufacturers offer TB4 on some of their SKUs but not all...

 

[TheLostSwede]

So still no native USB4 solution on z790? Still optional?

I wonder if AMD X670 will have native USB4 as standard, or if manufacturers will have the choice not to include a USB4 port, similar to the Intel side where manufacturers offer TB4 on some of their SKUs but not all...

Seems like it.

Considering their Zen3+ notebook chips already has support for it, I would expect AM4 CPUs to support it, but maybe not the chipset. Currently shipping laptops are said to be missing firmware and UEFI/AGESA support, but it should be enabled at some point in the future.

 

[Chaitanya]

Finally good increase in PCI-e lanes.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Finally good increase in PCI-e lanes.

There's no actual increase in total lanes, just a switchover from PCIe 3.0 to PCIe 4.0.

 

[Sybaris_Caesar]

Seems like it.

Considering their AM3+ notebook chips already has support for it, I would expect AM4 CPUs to support it, but maybe not the chipset. Currently shipping laptops are said to be missing firmware and UEFI/AGESA support, but it should be enabled at some point in the future.

I wouldn't hold my breath. Laptops actually need high throughput connectors after deleting ports and to use for hub. Motherboard makers will want to lord us over with " premium features " to pay extra penny. And I think you mean Zen 3+ and Zen 4. I don't think AM3+ supports USB 4.0.

 

[Chaitanya]

There's no actual increase in total lanes, just a switchover from PCIe 3.0 to PCIe 4.0.

For B660 and H770 seems like there is an increase in lanes. Also gen 4 lanes means any controllers(granted they are native 4.0) will take less number of lanes compared to gen 3 controllers/interface.

 

[asdkj1740]

For B660 and H770 seems like there is an increase in lanes. Also gen 4 lanes means any controllers(granted they are native 4.0) will take less number of lanes compared to gen 3 controllers/interface.

no. they dont work like that.
without the ic got upgraded to gen4 edition, the same amount of lanes are needed no matter gen3 or gen4 lanes are used to feed that ic.
the only gen4 ic i can recall now, is the 10g lan chip(4.0x1) , but current z690s with 10g lan chip used are mostly gen3 edition, namely x2 is needed.

 

[TheLostSwede]

And I think you mean Zen 3+ and Zen 4. I don't think AM3+ supports USB 4.0.

Correct.

For B660 and H770 seems like there is an increase in lanes. Also gen 4 lanes means any controllers(granted they are native 4.0) will take less number of lanes compared to gen 3 controllers/interface.

PCIe 3.0 goes from 8 to 4, so minus 4.
PCIe 4.0 goes from 6 to 10, so plus 4.
And it was of course supposed to be B760, so fixed that typo.

 

[ir_cow]

Correct.


PCIe 3.0 goes from 8 to 4, so minus 4.
PCIe 4.0 goes from 6 to 10, so plus 4.

Gen3 does not equal gen4 in bandwidth. I'm betting the extra lanes will only be enabled on 13th gen.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Gen3 does not equal gen4 in bandwidth. I'm betting the extra lanes will only be enabled on 13th gen.

Uhm, they're changing one for the other in the upcoming chipsets.
That's the whole point of this new post.
Nothing to do with the CPUs.

 

[zlobby]

Unintentional yawn...

 

[thegnome]

Oh good, more 4.0! But I hope this also doesn't mean 300$ boards with a less than 200$ feature set will become even more expensive...

 

[Ferrum Master]

I have as strong feeling the bridge is even pin to pin compatible... Almost reusable older gen PCB design... and it is the usual practice.

 

[zlobby]

I have as strong feeling the bridge is even pin to pin compatible... Almost reusable older gen PCB design... and it is the usual practice.

If they can cut corners, they will cut corners.

 

[Tek-Check]

So still no native USB4 solution on z790? Still optional?

I wonder if AMD X670 will have native USB4 as standard, or if manufacturers will have the choice not to include a USB4 port, similar to the Intel side where manufacturers offer TB4 on some of their SKUs but not all...

600/700 chipset does not need native USB4 if a desktop motherboard has Thunderbolt 4 chip. TB4 is USB4 compliant, whereas USB4 is not TB4 compliant, but TB3 compatible only.
600/700 chipset for laptops also does not need native USB4, as mobile CPU supports 4xTB4 ports on die. It's up to OEM to enable as many as they find suitable, usually two or three.
So, by having TB4 on a system, you already have USB4. TB4 is a better version of USB4 and USB4 is based on TB.

By analogy, both X570 and B550 can support USB4 if AMD partners bake Thunderbolt 4 chip, which a few OEMs have done, such as Asus ProArt Creator motherboards.
FP7 chipset on Rembrandt mobile CPUs support USB4 40 Gbps on die. X670 and B650 will support USB4 at 20 or 40 Gbps. Minimum PC speed is 20 Gbps and 10 Gbps for USB devices.

 

[Nanochip]

600/700 chipset does not need native USB4 if a desktop motherboard has Thunderbolt 4 chip. TB4 is USB4 compliant, whereas USB4 is not TB4 compliant, but TB3 compatible only.
600/700 chipset for laptops also does not need native USB4, as mobile CPU supports 4xTB4 ports on die. It's up to OEM to enable as many as they find suitable, usually two or three.
So, by having TB4 on a system, you already have USB4. TB4 is a better version of USB4 and USB4 is based on TB.

By analogy, both X570 and B550 can support USB4 if AMD partners bake Thunderbolt 4 chip, which a few OEMs have done, such as Asus ProArt Creator motherboards.
FP7 chipset on Rembrandt mobile CPUs support USB4 40 Gbps on die. X670 and B650 will support USB4 at 20 or 40 Gbps. Minimum PC speed is 20 Gbps and 10 Gbps for USB devices.

My point is just that on the intel desktop side, TB4 support is optional and not embedded into the cpu or chipset. There still must be a discrete TB4 solution which is offered on some but not all SKUs.

If however USB4 (or TB4) was embedded into the chipset or cpu then it would be a standard feature of z790. Instead, the standard usb-c solution of intel Z chipsets (Z590, Z690, and now Z790) is USB3.2x2 which is 20 Gbps but differs from USB4 in that it doesn’t support PCIe tunneling. So the native solution is kind of useless in my opinion. Because most storage devices top out at usb3 10 gbps… and if your usb-c device uses PCIE tunneling (nvme storage, 10gbps lan adapter, audio interface, egpu) then you still need TB. So from my point of view, 1 guaranteed USB4 port would be great… instead you have to shell more $$$ for a mobo with TB4 (maple ridge).

And the other issue is prior to Titan ridge, Intel TB solutions did not have a USB3.x fallback mode. Meaning that with an Alpine ridge controller for example (which is the controller of choice in many external nvme solutions) if you plug the device into a standard usb 3.x port, it doesn’t function. But it would function if plugged into a USB4 port (because of backwards compatibility with TB3). So even with the usb3.2x2 port on Z690 or z90, it is useless if you connect an Alpine Ridge device to it.

Given the optional nature of TB4 (and thus USB4) on Intel chipsets, I was simply wondering how AMD will implement USB4 on its upcoming chipset. Whether it will be standard unlike on Intel. Don’t know. Waiting to see.

 

[DeathtoGnomes]

I am shocked!

They didnt call it a leak this time around! We're moving up in the gramur usage!

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

Good news, doubling the bandwidth for those affected lanes shoudl allow for more 4.0 m.2 drives and 4.0x1 expansion cards.

If they can cut corners, they will cut corners.

AMD reusing CPU sockets: "revolutionary"

Intel reusing motherboard pin out "cutting corners".

 

[WhitetailAni]

AMD reusing CPU sockets: "revolutionary"

Intel reusing motherboard pin out "cutting corners".

CPUs are different from chipsets. You can't swap a chipset on a motherboard once you buy it. You can swap a CPU* on a motherboard after you buy it.
*OEM CPU firmware lock something or other notwithstanding; but that's an edge case.

 

[Wirko]

Probably the same silicon as 600 series, just with different parts disabled.

 

[yurin]

600/700 chipset does not need native USB4 if a desktop motherboard has Thunderbolt 4 chip. TB4 is USB4 compliant, whereas USB4 is not TB4 compliant, but TB3 compatible only.
600/700 chipset for laptops also does not need native USB4, as mobile CPU supports 4xTB4 ports on die. It's up to OEM to enable as many as they find suitable, usually two or three.
So, by having TB4 on a system, you already have USB4. TB4 is a better version of USB4 and USB4 is based on TB.

By analogy, both X570 and B550 can support USB4 if AMD partners bake Thunderbolt 4 chip, which a few OEMs have done, such as Asus ProArt Creator motherboards.
FP7 chipset on Rembrandt mobile CPUs support USB4 40 Gbps on die. X670 and B650 will support USB4 at 20 or 40 Gbps. Minimum PC speed is 20 Gbps and 10 Gbps for USB devices.

AFAIK, TB4 is not 100% the same as USB4. For instance, even though both are 40Gbit/s, TB4 can only utilize 32Gbit/s for data transfers (8Gbit/s is reserved for video), plus has higher overhead so the real world data transfers are around 22Gbit/s. USB4 can utilize full 40Gbit/s for data transfers with less overhead - around 5Gbit/s = 35Gbit/s transfer speeds from and to PC using USB4 vs. 22 Gbit/s TB4.
Source: https://www.tripplite.com/products/thunderbolt-4

Also, TB4 has 100W power delivery, USB4 with Extended power range is capable to deliver up to 240W.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB4#Data_transfer_modes

 

[TheLostSwede]

I am shocked!

They didnt call it a leak this time around! We're moving up in the gramur usage!

Sorry, that's not the pronoun I go by.

 

[InVasMani]

Intel unintentionally dropping subtle blue clues leaks of product launches...to AMD traitorous converts that got sick of their anti competitive monopoly. Another unintentional PR publicity stint seems to be a lot those bread crumb product leaks going around. Blue's Clues of the day are unintentional flips and bread crumbs. NSFW Blue's Clues...from Steve to Intel sincerely.

That out of the way looks like x4 lanes coming off the CPU and x4 being Frankensteined from PCIE 3.0 lanes into PCIE 4.0 lanes with x4 out of the x8 additonal PCIE 4.0 lanes going to USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 (20Gbps) ports. Which seems good more flexibility for the PCIE 4.0 lanes towards multi-gpu configurations or additional PCIE 4.0 NVME devices among other possibilities.