AMD Isolates Windows 11 and Windows 10 Performance Stuttering Issues to fTPM

btarunr · Mar 7, 2022

Does it take ages for the taskbar calendar and notification center to load on your Windows 11 PC powered by an AMD Ryzen processor? Notice random stutters in performance? Chances are, the lag is caused not due to user-interface bugs by Microsoft, but hardware. AMD discovered that certain Ryzen-powered Windows 11 and Windows 10 PCs experience intermittent performance stutters when running with fTPM (firmware TPM) enabled.

The performance stutter is caused due to background memory transactions between Windows and the fTPM, to authenticate an action, as the fTPM serves the function of a hardware root of trust. Since the fTPM is part of the UEFI firmware that resides on the SPI flash EEPROM chip, the performance stutter is caused due to fTPM-related memory transactions with this chip.

AMD issued an immediate workaround, as well as announced that it's working on a fix. As a workaround, you can switch from fTPM to a discrete TPM module (or dTPM), which uses the TPM 2.0 header on your motherboard. dTPMs such as the one pictured above, have been selling on Amazon for anywhere between $50-100. Be absolutely sure to disable Bitlocker before switching between fTPM and dTPM, if you have it enabled. Or you could just wait for AMD's fix, which will be distributed by motherboard or OEM vendors, as UEFI firmware updates.

AMD expects firmware updates with the fix to start coming out around May 2022. These will use the AGESA V2 ComboPI 1.2.0.7 (or later) microcode. The latest version of AGESA in distribution is 1.2.0.6b.

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Cutechri · Mar 7, 2022

Cannot wait to get Nova Lake in however many years time. Tired of seeing too much of this stuff from AMD.

I'm not buying a scalped dTPM just to fix this, AMD. Get your shit together.

Ruru · Mar 7, 2022

Nothing to complain here, works like a charm. R5 3600, B550 & Win11 Pro.

tabascosauz · Mar 7, 2022

The same reddit thread/youtube video where we were all introduced to the cause of this lovely bug stated that users have not had much luck with discrete TPMs either..........

But at least AMD acknowledges it now (I mean, the video evidence is pretty clear). So we frustrated owners won't just sit there talking to ourselves like a bunch of bozos while other Ryzen owners chime in with their "no problems here on my PC, so this bug doesn't exist".

When was the last time AGESA actually worked without crippling performance or removing PBO functionality? AGESA 1202? 1203 from mid-2021? If nothing else, hoping the 5800X3D launch blesses us with a good AGESA 1207. Or maybe not.

ThrashZone · Mar 7, 2022

Hi,
Interesting some people say they have stuttering and some say they have none.
Guess we see whom was right :laugh:

Cutechri · Mar 7, 2022

I definitely have many to complain about. This is an issue that is prevalent on my machine. Not to mention all the other issues AMD have been screwing my head with.

ThrashZone · Mar 7, 2022

Hi,
Driver issues is one of the main reasons I've never gone amd systems.

Cutechri · Mar 7, 2022

Not really the drivers and moreso hardware issues. My old 3900X rebooting at idle due to not handling stock VDDG CCD/IOD voltages well is sure fun...

ThrashZone · Mar 7, 2022

Hi,
Drivers/ firmware not to far apart

Cutechri · Mar 7, 2022

tabascosauz said:
hoping the 5800X3D launch blesses us with a good AGESA 1207. Or maybe not.

Yeah... I'm avoiding 1.2.0.5 and .6 after everything I've heard about them. Hope 1.2.0.7 is good, because I will be updating in order to fix this annoying fault. If not, then well, I'd have to use BIOS flashback on my board for the first time ever.

samum · Mar 7, 2022

Meanwhile, those of us that bypassed TPM at install have no problem with this.

tabascosauz · Mar 7, 2022

Cutechri said:
Yeah... I'm avoiding 1.2.0.5 and .6 after everything I've heard about them. Hope 1.2.0.7 is good, because I will be updating in order to fix this annoying fault. If not, then well, I'd have to use BIOS flashback on my board for the first time ever.

I think you can still disable fTPM on 11? All that it ever did for me was require me to change my password at the next boot. Admittedly I do use a MS account for login and do not use Bitlocker, both of which will probably change how it behaves. Obviously 10 is easy, but I think it also requires a password change if you installed with TPM on.

Cutechri · Mar 7, 2022

tabascosauz said:
I think you can still disable fTPM on 11? All that it ever did for me was require me to change my password at the next boot. Admittedly I do use a MS account for login and do not use Bitlocker, both of which will probably change how it behaves. Obviously 10 is easy, but I think it also requires a password change if you installed with TPM on.

Probably. I'd rather try out the official fix though

eidairaman1 · Mar 7, 2022

No performance issues on a 5800 b550 Steel Legend using ftpm

DemonicRyzen666 · Mar 7, 2022

Mean while, pirates win again. All jokes a side I don't like the idea of TPM
I've heard that some new games are to be locked to a specific PC meaning you can't install it on any other.

ThrashZone · Mar 7, 2022

eidairaman1 said:
No performance issues on a 5800 b550 Steel Legend using ftpm

Hi,
Maybe asus did some mojo to the bios :cool:

zlobby · Mar 7, 2022

Odd, no issues on anything from 2700U (mobile) to 5xxx (desktop). All have virtualization security enabled.

I finally took a leap of faith and migrated most personal machines on Win 11. So far, so good.

AnarchoPrimitiv · Mar 7, 2022

ThrashZone said:
Hi,
Drivers/ firmware not to far apart

I'd really like to know what these "issues" are, I built a 2700x/5700x system in 2019 and I've literally, and I mean literally, never had a single issue, not one single black screen, not one single crash, not one single issue, and I mean that in the most literal sense. I have numerous games installed, use various content creator software, and have never had an issue, am I just lucky?

EatingDirt · Mar 7, 2022

tabascosauz said:
The same reddit thread/youtube video where we were all introduced to the cause of this lovely bug stated that users have not had much luck with discrete TPMs either..........

But at least AMD acknowledges it now (I mean, the video evidence is pretty clear). So we frustrated owners won't just sit there talking to ourselves like a bunch of bozos while other Ryzen owners chime in with their "no problems here on my PC, so this bug doesn't exist".

When was the last time AGESA actually worked without crippling performance or removing PBO functionality? AGESA 1202? 1203 from mid-2021? If nothing else, hoping the 5800X3D launch blesses us with a good AGESA 1207. Or maybe not.

People on reddit are a special type. However, that being said, the TPM isn't an issue on every configuration (like mine). So, if it doesn't happen on every instance of people using TPM with a Ryzen CPU, it can be tough for people on a forum to pointpoint the exact cause unless that forum happens to be full of hardware/software engineers.

tabascosauz · Mar 7, 2022

EatingDirt said:
People on reddit are a special type. However, that being said, the TPM isn't an issue on every configuration (like mine). So, if it doesn't happen on every instance of people using TPM with a Ryzen CPU, it can be tough for people on a forum to pointpoint the exact cause unless that forum happens to be full of hardware/software engineers.

To be fair, I'd usually wholeheartedly agree. Reddit is full of "experts" who "troubleshoot" by not troubleshooting.

In this case, the fTPM-related stuttering is very distinctive. It does not affect anything 99% of the time; it usually lasts only a few seconds, and it's easy to miss if you're not continuously focused on your PC (ie. gaming, media, audio). But when it happens it is application-agnostic, very noticeable across the board, and it's nigh impossible to confuse it with any other sort of hardware/software issue.

In the first few months I was clean installing all the time back and forth between 10 and 11, trying to figure out the L3 problem and how Win 11 scheduler clocked in games. Ran a bunch of different boards in that period with a lot of B-die tinkering. The only constant was the fTPM problem, and the difference is indisputable once aware of what's causing it. Detailed this a bunch of times elsewhere so I won't go into it, but if there's just one time that some random Redditor actually made some sense, it's this one.

Cutechri · Mar 7, 2022

AnarchoPrimitiv said:
I'd really like to know what these "issues" are, I built a 2700x/5700x system in 2019 and I've literally, and I mean literally, never had a single issue, not one single black screen, not one single crash, not one single issue, and I mean that in the most literal sense. I have numerous games installed, use various content creator software, and have never had an issue, am I just lucky?

Congrats. You didn't have issues, doesn't mean the rest of us didn't either. This point is moot from the get go.

mechtech · Mar 7, 2022

Well at least it can be fixed.

Cutechri said:
Cannot wait to get Nova Lake in however many years time. Tired of seeing too much of this stuff from AMD.

I'm not buying a scalped dTPM just to fix this, AMD. Get your shit together.

If it’s in the firmware. Wouldn’t that also be tied to ami/award/whoever makes motherboard bios also??

ThrashZone · Mar 7, 2022

Hi,
Yeah isn't this just a micro code like intel does ?

Wirko · Mar 7, 2022

btarunr said:
The performance stutter is caused due to background memory transactions between Windows and the fTPM, to authenticate an action, as the fTPM serves the function of a hardware root of trust.

Am I the only one wondering what these "actions" are?

Cutechri · Mar 7, 2022

mechtech said:
If it’s in the firmware. Wouldn’t that also be tied to ami/award/whoever makes motherboard bios also??

idk. All I know is Intel users aren't having to deal with this

System Name	RBMK-1000
Processor	AMD Ryzen 7 5700G
Motherboard	ASUS ROG Strix B450-E Gaming
Cooling	DeepCool Gammax L240 V2
Memory	2x 8GB G.Skill Sniper X
Video Card(s)	Palit GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER GameRock
Storage	Western Digital Black NVMe 512GB
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Case	Corsair Carbide 100R
Audio Device(s)	ASUS SupremeFX S1220A
Power Supply	Cooler Master MWE Gold 650W
Mouse	ASUS ROG Strix Impact
Keyboard	Gamdias Hermes E2
Software	Windows 11 Pro

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Processor	AMD Ryzen 7 5800X @ PBO +200 -20CO
Motherboard	Asus ROG Crosshair VII Hero
Cooling	Arctic Freezer 50, EKWB Vector TUF
Memory	32GB Kingston HyperX Fury DDR4-3466
Video Card(s)	Asus GeForce RTX 3080 TUF OC 10GB
Storage	A pack of SSDs totaling 3.2TB + 3TB HDDs
Display(s)	27" 4K120 IPS + 32" 4K60 IPS + 24" 1080p60
Case	Corsair 4000D Airflow White
Audio Device(s)	Asus TUF H3 Wireless / Corsair HS35
Power Supply	EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse	Logitech MX518 + Asus ROG Strix Edge Nordic
Keyboard	Roccat Vulcan 121 AIMO
VR HMD	Oculus Rift CV1
Software	Windows 11 Pro
Benchmark Scores	It runs Crysis

System Name	ab┃ob
Processor	7800X3D┃5800X3D
Motherboard	B650E PG-ITX┃X570 Impact
Cooling	NH-U12A + T30┃AXP120-x67
Memory	64GB 6400CL32┃32GB 3600CL14
Video Card(s)	RTX 4070 Ti Eagle┃RTX A2000
Storage	8TB of SSDs┃1TB SN550
Case	Caselabs S3┃Lazer3D HT5

System Name	Ghetto Rigs z490\|x99\|Acer 17 Nitro 7840hs/ 5600c40-2x16/ 4060/ 1tb acer stock m.2/ 4tb sn850x
Processor	10900k w/Optimus Foundation \| 5930k w/Black Noctua D15
Motherboard	z490 Maximus XII Apex \| x99 Sabertooth
Cooling	oCool D5 res-combo/280 GTX/ Optimus Foundation/ gpu water block \| Blk D15
Memory	Trident-Z Royal 4000c16 2x16gb \| Trident-Z 3200c14 4x8gb
Video Card(s)	Titan Xp-water \| evga 980ti gaming-w/ air
Storage	970evo+500gb & sn850x 4tb \| 860 pro 256gb \| Acer m.2 1tb/ sn850x 4tb\| Many2.5" sata's ssd 3.5hdd's
Display(s)	1-AOC G2460PG 24"G-Sync 144Hz/ 2nd 1-ASUS VG248QE 24"/ 3rd LG 43" series
Case	D450 \| Cherry Entertainment center on Test bench
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Mouse	Redragon 901 Perdition x3
Keyboard	G710+x3
Software	Win-7 pro x3 and win-10 & 11pro x3
Benchmark Scores	Are in the benchmark section

System Name	Ghetto Rigs z490\|x99\|Acer 17 Nitro 7840hs/ 5600c40-2x16/ 4060/ 1tb acer stock m.2/ 4tb sn850x
Processor	10900k w/Optimus Foundation \| 5930k w/Black Noctua D15
Motherboard	z490 Maximus XII Apex \| x99 Sabertooth
Cooling	oCool D5 res-combo/280 GTX/ Optimus Foundation/ gpu water block \| Blk D15
Memory	Trident-Z Royal 4000c16 2x16gb \| Trident-Z 3200c14 4x8gb
Video Card(s)	Titan Xp-water \| evga 980ti gaming-w/ air
Storage	970evo+500gb & sn850x 4tb \| 860 pro 256gb \| Acer m.2 1tb/ sn850x 4tb\| Many2.5" sata's ssd 3.5hdd's
Display(s)	1-AOC G2460PG 24"G-Sync 144Hz/ 2nd 1-ASUS VG248QE 24"/ 3rd LG 43" series
Case	D450 \| Cherry Entertainment center on Test bench
Audio Device(s)	Built in Realtek x2 with 2-Insignia 2.0 sound bars & 1-LG sound bar
Power Supply	EVGA 1000P2 with APC AX1500 \| 850P2 with CyberPower-GX1325U
Mouse	Redragon 901 Perdition x3
Keyboard	G710+x3
Software	Win-7 pro x3 and win-10 & 11pro x3
Benchmark Scores	Are in the benchmark section

AMD Isolates Windows 11 and Windows 10 Performance Stuttering Issues to fTPM

btarunr

Editor & Senior Moderator

Cutechri

Ruru

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tabascosauz

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ThrashZone

Cutechri

ThrashZone

Cutechri

ThrashZone

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tabascosauz

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Cutechri

eidairaman1

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Cutechri

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Memory	16 GB Gskill Ripjaws X 2133 (2400 OC, 10-10-12-20-20, 1T, 1.65V)
Video Card(s)	AMD Radeon 290 Sapphire Vapor-X
Storage	Samsung 840 Pro 256GB, WD Velociraptor 1TB
Display(s)	NEC Multisync LCD 1700V (Display Port Adapter)
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Audio Device(s)	Creative Labs Sound Blaster ZxR
Power Supply	Seasonic 1250 XM2 Series (XP3)
Mouse	Roccat Kone XTD
Keyboard	Roccat Ryos MK Pro
Software	Windows 7 Pro 64

System Name	S.L.I + RTX research rig
Processor	Ryzen 7 5800X 3D.
Motherboard	MSI MEG ACE X570
Cooling	Corsair H150i Cappellx
Memory	Corsair Vengeance pro RGB 3200mhz 32Gbs
Video Card(s)	2x Dell RTX 2080 Ti in S.L.I
Storage	Western digital Sata 6.0 SDD 500gb + fanxiang S660 4TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe M.2
Display(s)	HP X24i
Case	Corsair 7000D Airflow
Power Supply	EVGA G+1600watts
Mouse	Corsair Scimitar
Keyboard	Cosair K55 Pro RGB

System Name	Lightbringer
Processor	Ryzen 7 2700X
Motherboard	Asus ROG Strix X470-F Gaming
Cooling	Enermax Liqmax Iii 360mm AIO
Memory	G.Skill Trident Z RGB 32GB (8GBx4) 3200Mhz CL 14
Video Card(s)	Sapphire RX 5700XT Nitro+
Storage	Hp EX950 2TB NVMe M.2, HP EX950 1TB NVMe M.2, Samsung 860 EVO 2TB
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Case	Lian Li PC-O11 Dynamic (White)
Power Supply	BeQuiet Straight Power 11 850w Gold Rated PSU
Mouse	Glorious Model O (Matte White)
Keyboard	Royal Kludge RK71
Software	Windows 10

Processor	Ryzen 7 5800X3D
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Memory	32GB @ 3600 CL18
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Storage	WD Black SN850(1TB), WD Black NVMe 2018(500GB), WD Blue SATA(2TB)
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Case	Be Quiet! Silent Base 802
Power Supply	Seasonic PRIME-GX-1000

Processor	Ryzen 5700x
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Memory	Micron DDR4-3200 2x32GB D.S. D.R. (CT2K32G4DFD832A)
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Storage	Kingston KC3000 1TB & 2TB & 4TB Corsair MP600 Pro LPX
Display(s)	LG 27UL550-W (27" 4k)
Case	Be Quiet Pure Base 600 (no window)
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Processor	i5-6600K
Motherboard	Asus Z170A
Cooling	some cheap Cooler Master Hyper 103 or similar
Memory	16GB DDR4-2400
Video Card(s)	IGP
Storage	Samsung 850 EVO 250GB
Display(s)	2x Oldell 24" 1920x1200
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Power Supply	Seasonic G-360
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Keyboard	Key Tronic KT2000, no Win key because 1994
Software	Oldwin