Thermalright Launches Bending Corrector Frame for Alder Lake Processors

[Solid State Brain]

So what's the result if you're experiencing "warping/bending? 4-5C hotter on average? 10C hotter?

Several (me included) have seen difference around that ballpark (4-5 °C and Igor's Lab results were in line with this), others have seen improvements up to 15 °C. However, results are proportional not just to the degree of IHS deformation (which may vary), but also to the thermal load / CPU package power.

The Thermaltake frame could potentially yield better results than the washers since it looks like it could be truly making pressure on the CPU more or less homogeneous, while the washers with the stock ILM only decrease it.

 

[zlobby]

Several (me included) have seen difference around that ballpark (4-5 °C and Igor's Lab results were in line with this), others have seen improvements up to 15 °C. However, results are proportional not just to the degree of IHS deformation (which may vary), but also to the thermal load / CPU package power.

The Thermaltake frame could potentially yield better results than the washers since it looks like it could be truly making pressure on the CPU more or less homogeneous, while the washers with the stock ILM only decrease it.

OK, a stupid question - why didn't you guys RMA these CPU? Yes, I know for many that would be a huge inconvenience, even nearly impossible as many people rely on a single PC, but intel should be taught a lesson.

 

[Solid State Brain]

With a Noctua NH-D15S at 125W package power the CPU stays under 75 °C with a relatively quiet fan profile at 21 °C ambient temperature. On what basis exactly could I RMA it? This is more about overclocking thermal headroom than the processor fulfilling its stated specifications, and a new CPU is not going to change anything: this is mostly due to the Intel-designed integrated loading mechanism (ILM) on the motherboard.

 

[skates]

I bought it because I have a collection of inexpensive PC component dodads which I think are cool from a design, engineering and use case perspective. My collection also has items which are a total fail or lack a good use case, but are compelling in their own right. I don't anything from my collection, I just appreciate the efforts companies and people make in designing and bringing to market the odd PC component that makes you go hmmm. This particular item is worthy for its simplicity, cost, materials used and use case. I especially like that they applied color and a design...they didn't have to do that for 6 bucks, but someone in the product management or engineering/design wanted to give some personality to that block of alum where none was needed and approved it. That sort of thinking is what is so cool about these odd PC components, so I'll support them by buying one (the red one).

 

[R-T-B]

You've gotta melt the solder to do that these days, too. Your warranty is super-FUBAR the instant you put your CPU under the heat gun.

Yeah the "toothpaste" part is for better or worse, a thing of the past, at least on high end SKUs

 

[Mussels]

This is hilarious

? what ?


why and when does my new cpu bend? can anyone please inform me why it would bend when it is in the original socket?

cheap nasty design. high wattage CPU's that require big coolers that can over-tighten too easy and warp things.


My fear is that long term these CPU's will warp and crack the solder between the die and the IHS, making them impossible to cool or outright impossible to even run at stock speeds over time

 

[Deleted member 24505]

Well mine is flat. never even saw a hint of warpage at all. This is just another excuse to show how rabidly anti Intel this forum has become. Specially when it is People who have never even had a ADL CPU spouting the anti Intel bullshit.

 

[Chrispy_]

Well mine is flat. never even saw a hint of warpage at all. This is just another excuse to show how rabidly anti Intel this forum has become. Specially when it is People who have never even had a ADL CPU spouting the anti Intel bullshit.

I'm not sure how you think this forum is anti-Intel when this is about a third-party company creating a solution to Intel's oversight that Intel themselves admitted making.

It wouldn't be such a big problem if there was no evidence of bending, or if the bending only occurred when using extreme mounting force that falls far outside of Intel's design specs - but this is apprently an issue that causes CPU warping over time, even when using the stock Intel air coolers because the damage is caused by the pressure of the LGA1700 retention socket itself, affecting every single LGA1700 build ever done.

 

[Mussels]

Well mine is flat. never even saw a hint of warpage at all. This is just another excuse to show how rabidly anti Intel this forum has become. Specially when it is People who have never even had a ADL CPU spouting the anti Intel bullshit.

you didnt get one of the affected motherboards then

If you're aware of the issue at all, theres two OEM choices for the retention mechanism and one of them is cheap shit that warps the CPU's, oh ye who laugh reacts based on a sample size of one

 

[Ruru]

Kinda reminds me of Athlon XP shims that protected the bare CPU core...

True. And GPU shims we've got used since Radeon 9700 Pro.

 

[Chrispy_]

If you're aware of the issue at all, theres two OEM choices for the retention mechanism and one of them is cheap shit that warps the CPU

Is there a list yet of which boards have the bad retention mechanism? I'd like to back-check the S1700 builds I've already done.

 

[Solid State Brain]

Mine has a Lotes ILM and bends the CPU. The manufacturer isn't really that important though; users have reported bent CPUs also with Foxconn ILMs, which are considered to be of lower quality.

Cooling issues with Intel’s Alder Lake - Problems with the LGA-1700 socket and a possible workaround | Page 3 | igor´sLAB

Badly fitting coolers, too low performance with actually good waterblocks and bent CPUs – meanwhile not only the feedback of the readers is piling up, but also very similar reports from the board…

www.igorslab.de

[...] Nevertheless, we also had cases where a higher quality socket from Lotes was installed and the CPU was also slightly curved. However, our own boards with Lotes socket show less camber in comparison, still. But again, it was measurable. But how are you supposed to compensate for something like that on the upside? Incidentally, system integrators also pointed out that the rather cheaper boards with thinner PCBs already had a U-shaped bulge around the socket before a CPU was even inserted.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

Mine has a Lotes ILM and bends the CPU. The manufacturer isn't really that important though; users have reported bent CPUs also with Foxconn ILMs, which are considered to be of lower quality.

Cooling issues with Intel’s Alder Lake - Problems with the LGA-1700 socket and a possible workaround | Page 3 | igor´sLAB

Badly fitting coolers, too low performance with actually good waterblocks and bent CPUs – meanwhile not only the feedback of the readers is piling up, but also very similar reports from the board…

www.igorslab.de

Mine is this, what ever it is.

and her is my cpu

Imo it is pretty flat. and has been in and out of the socket a few times. I have tried the washer mod too, but thought temps were worse. I have never had a air cooler of any type on it, it has always had the EK supremacy classic block on it, with the EK backplate

 

[zlobby]

Mine is this, what ever it is.
View attachment 244654
and her is my cpu
View attachment 244655View attachment 244656
Imo it is pretty flat. and has been in and out of the socket a few times. I have tried the washer mod too, but thought temps were worse. I have never had a air cooler of any type on it, it has always had the EK supremacy classic block on it, with the EK backplate

You call this flatness? Ha! This is real flatness:

 

[Solid State Brain]

A video from Thermalright on how to install the frame. Screws are not included; those that come with the stock ILM should be reused.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

If it's cheap i might order one to give it a try. It's a much better way to hold the CPU in the socket anyway.

 

[MarsM4N]

A solution for a problem that shouldn't be there in the first place.

Have to admit the frame is a great idea, and it's even surprisingly cheap. It might even act as an headspreader, helping to cool the CPU.
Although a steel version would be better in both regards. Maybe we will see something more solid from f.e. EKWB.

OK, a stupid question - why didn't you guys RMA these CPU? Yes, I know for many that would be a huge inconvenience, even nearly impossible as many people rely on a single PC, but intel should be taught a lesson.

The problem would be that "technically" it's not Intel who's accountable, but the board manufacturers. It's a chain of incompetence, first of course the socket manufacturer who produced a too weak part & then QA team of the board manufacturers who didn't pick up the obvious problem. Pretty sure Intel also has a QA team who does compability checks, so you have 2 QA teams who failed here.

If they would now aknowledge that there is a problem, it would lead to RMA's with huge costs for the board manufacturers, so that's why Intel is denying that it's a thing, covering their backs. Absolute scummy behaviour.

Mine is this, what ever it is.
and her is my cpu
Imo it is pretty flat. and has been in and out of the socket a few times. I have tried the washer mod too, but thought temps were worse. I have never had a air cooler of any type on it, it has always had the EK supremacy classic block on it, with the EK backplate

No s**t, Sherlock. You need to check for bending when the CPU is installed (clamped down in the socket)! If you put the CPU out it will just flex back, because that's what most metals do once you release pressure. To make it visible use a flashlight & a very straight thing like a credit card. Once your mobo is installed it's hard to get an angle on it, but you could use your phone camera for it.

You could also slap tons of thermal paste on your CPU, scratch with a credit card horizontally over it & see how much TIM remains in the middle section.

 

[Steevo]

wait til ya see what the graphics card needs to stay in place.

Intel patented wood screws?

there were some of the early tower coolers that required a backplate to prevent the socket from breaking and bending. Bad on Intel for shoving this off to other manufacturers, bad on Intel for throwing them under the bus.

At the same time bad of some premium board manufacturers for not addressing this with a stronger backplate or double clamp like this is providing.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Top of the cpu verses the the shape of the cpu cold plate if these don't fit well coolest to hottest core temp spread will be crazy off
If you're within 10c of this at max all core clocks you're doing pretty well.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

A solution for a problem that shouldn't be there in the first place.

Have to admit the frame is a great idea, and it's even surprisingly cheap. It might even act as an headspreader, helping to cool the CPU.
Although a steel version would be better in both regards. Maybe we will see something more solid from f.e. EKWB.



The problem would be that "technically" it's not Intel who's accountable, but the board manufacturers. It's a chain of incompetence, first of course the socket manufacturer who produced a too weak part & then QA team of the board manufacturers who didn't pick up the obvious problem. Pretty sure Intel also has a QA team who does compability checks, so you have 2 QA teams who failed here.

If they would now aknowledge that there is a problem, it would lead to RMA's with huge costs for the board manufacturers, so that's why Intel is denying that it's a thing, covering their backs. Absolute scummy behaviour.



No s**t, Sherlock. You need to check for bending when the CPU is installed (clamped down in the socket)! If you put the CPU out it will just flex back, because that's what most metals do once you release pressure. To make it visible use a flashlight & a very straight thing like a credit card. Once your mobo is installed it's hard to get an angle on it, but you could use your phone camera for it.

You could also slap tons of thermal paste on your CPU, scratch with a credit card horizontally over it & see how much TIM remains in the middle section.

It's the board/socket flexing that causes the bend. My board has the EK 3mm thick steel back plate on, so no chance of it flexing. guessing that is the point of it, never mind been a better mount for the CPU block. As i have already stated, the backplate has been on since i first installed the CPU, as it has had the EK block on it right from the off. Maybe you already knew that though if you had been following my posts. try looking at the tech purchase thread and you will see the pics from the day i got it.

How is your ADL CPU?

 

[ThrashZone]

It's the board/socket flexing that causes the bend. My board has the EK 3mm thick steel back plate on, so no chance of it flexing. guessing that is the point of it, never mind been a better mount for the CPU block. As i have already stated, the backplate has been on since i first installed the CPU, as it has had the EK block on it right from the off. Maybe you already knew that though if you had been following my posts. try looking at the tech purchase thread and you will see the pics from the day i got it.

How is your ADL CPU?

Hi,
Back plates don't do as much as one would hope
It mostly helps spread stress on the four portions where the holes in the boards are
This does nothing for the back of the cpu socket and is what is flexing the most

So adding the op's front plate this will prevent the cpu block from pushing the cpu further back than the top of the plate.

I always wondered why intel board manufactures cheap out on ....z series boards by not installing a better cpu mount like x299 sockets have which has a built in back plate.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

Hi,
Back plates don't do as much as one would hope
It mostly helps spread stress on the four portions where the holes in the boards are
This does nothing for the back of the cpu socket and is what is flexing the most

So adding the op's front plate this will prevent the cpu block from pushing the cpu further back than the top of the plate.

I always wondered why intel cheaps out on ....z series boards by not installing a better cpu mount like x299 sockets have which has a built in back plate.

I going to see if i can get hold of one of these from somewhere, may as well use it.

Is there any link to somewhere that actually sells these?

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Just have to message on their website I guess.

 

[95Viper]

Stay on topic.
Quit the arguing in the thread... take your BS to PMs.

 

[Totally]

The idea is interesting but… why we do have such an issue ? Intel retain mechanism is not really new. My 12700K doesn’t seem to be affected , with temperatures very low using an Arctic liquid freezer II 360, but I didn’t check it for any bent (and I’m not going to do that before the next upgrade).

Previous lga sockets had ears that served same funtion as this chunk of metal but worked by moving the stresses away and distributed the forces outward over a greater area, but those ears have been deleted on lga1700 bringing the forces inward, and also the clamping force the socket had been increased. To give an example, it's like trying to bend a rod, using the same amount of force it will be easier to bend the rod by moving your hands closer together than having them spread apart. So not only has Intel moved their hands closer together their also using more force.