NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Ti Founders Edition

[ratirt]

@Valantar You bro are totally right. The perception of people seeing 3090 and Ti's for this price and being OK with it is going to harm them sooner or later, considering where things are going. But how to explain people who even protect this type of travesty?
I see some are saying that the perf/$ is the same or higher. well if you bump the price for lower tier cards to make them less desirable sure. Well, with that approach, if (same people) say that the 4090 lets say, is going to be 2 times faster than a 3090, we should have the 4090 sold for $3.9k? It would still be a good value in some people's eyes, won't it? That thinking is so demeaning or simply plain stupid. I'm sure when it comes to that all those above saying it is OK will literally bite their tongues. There is finite resources people have. I can buy a card for $4k not a problem but I don't want to do that for whatever reason and definitely not gonna say it is OK because there is a value there. Value, has something more than perf/$ mark. We cant also put the blame on inflation that's for sure. It is a planned approach for companies that has been developing for years. It needs time and by reading some of the posts here it is definitely working.

BTW, Titan cards had a different driver which was enabling features other consumer cards did not have. This has been brought to discussion when 1000 series cards were released and titan was missing. Of course the top consumer card reached the titan price point obviously.

 

[Valantar]

Well AMD locks down the normal 6900XT in order to sell the 6900XTXH, that's what I call a capitalistic move.

... so a major international corporation being expressly capitalist (what a shocker!) inherently taints their products on a per-product basis, a taint that also then transfers to individuals? Yeah, sorry, I don't follow that logic. Questions like this can't be atomized into individuals and single decisions. As I said above, I as every other human being on earth am absolutely hypocritical in a number of ways. I still try to act in line with my views to the best of my abilities - and IMO, taking a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to get to use a high-end GPU when my old one was barely scraping by is barely a blip on that scale. There might - just might! -be more meaningful actions one can take, such as ... oh, I don't know, voting, being in a union, leading a low-waste, low-consumption lifestyle, etc. But there's a crucial point you're misisng here, that was explicit in my above posts: individualizing questions like this is a diversionary tactic on your part, nothing more. Individual actions don't matter in the grand scheme of things. Individualization of responsibility for societal ills is a key tactic of neoliberal capitalism, moving the focus from reforming our economic systems and putting responsibility onto major actors and instead onto individual people and making them feel a need to living "responsible lives". While consumption overall is a major problem on many front, the major driver of consumption isn't some innate desire to consume, but rather the manufacturing of this desire through marketing and cultural production. In order to change society for the better, one needs to start reforms from the top, putting pressure on major actors with resources and access - that's how you enact meaningful change. Starting from the bottom, guilt-tripping individuals into "buying better" is diversionary nonsense that only serves to undermine any effort towards real change.

FYI I'm from a communist country so all your preaching sound extremely hypocritical to me.

Cool. I ... don't quite see how that matters? Does where you're from somehow afford you a total insight into my actions as an individual? Because if not, then you're just making dumb judgements based on too little information. And, once again, you're completely missing the point of this whole discussion.

(And, for the record, AFAIK there aren't and have never been any actual communist countries - there have been attempts, and many have claimed to be communist, but they have all been undermined either entirely or significantly by corruption, nepotism, unprincipled (or just plain non-communist) leaders, overly strict hierarchies, or outside intervention (the CIA says hi!), causing them to typically morph into some kind of totalitarian autocratic/oligarchic state instead. Now, I'm not a communist, but the classic hand-waving "look how messed up those countries are/were" move is hardly convincing as an argument for the virtues of capitalism.)

Well let see how the crypto blow back is panning out shall we

Stock prices essentially only represent the (quasi-random) feelings of stock brokers and traders, and have very little to do with the actual performance or value of a company. Heck, just look at stock traders' preference for shouty macho men on TV giving trading advice - it's all about being made to feel powerful. Also, given that the vast majority of crypto is held and traded by people in the financial industry, it's hardly surprising that they also support (through pushing share prices up) the companies supporting this """industry""" in boom periods. They are inherently biased, as they have a vested interest in crypto maintaining or growing in value, making share prices a fundamentally flawed method for gauging overall reactions to companies investing in crypto. And, of course, this all traces back to the inherent misunderstanding of treating the stock market as somehow indicative of "the health of the economy", rather than being a large-scale gauge for how secure (or panicked) stock brokers are feeling that day. The stock market writ large has next to nothing to do with the overall economic sustainability of the companies traded there.

 

[Shatun_Bear]

There's going to be people with more money than sense gaming on these and being surprised when it literally spits out the same heat as a mini electric heater. My small office heater is 500W.

 

[Chrispy_]

Can somebody tell me if I do wrong.
I have old HP z840 workstation with dual e5-2667v3 processors. Would it work together with 3090ti? Or cpus are too old?
I use it for 3d modeling mainly, viewport performance really matter with heavy scene and files over 1Gb. I have 128gb ddr4 memory to handle big files.

It depends on what software you're using, and what you're modelling.

In some software, viewports are heavily accelerated by the GPU, in other software (notably Autodesk/Bentley) the viewports are limited almost entirely by the CPU.

Your CPUs are old but high-end and should be fine, if not the fastest thing going any more.

The best thing to do is search the forums of the specific software you're using and find out what resources it needs to improve. Sometimes it's single-threaded CPU performance (Autodesk, Bentley), Sometimes it's GPU speed or features (McNeel, Dassault, PTC Creo), Sometimes it's a mix of both.

Sorry but there's no one-size-fits-all answer; It depends on too many factors.

 

[EatingDirt]

Can somebody tell me if I do wrong.
I have old HP z840 workstation with dual e5-2667v3 processors. Would it work together with 3090ti? Or cpus are too old?
I use it for 3d modeling mainly, viewport performance really matter with heavy scene and files over 1Gb. I have 128gb ddr4 memory to handle big files.

I'm not entirely certain a HP z840 workstation PSU could handle a 3090 Ti combined with 2 e5-2667v3 CPU's. It depends on what PSU it has in it. I suggest checking that first. Keep in mind continuous Peak power draw for your setup with a 3090 Ti would be over 720w(720w is just the CPU & GPU, ignoring all other components).

 

[nguyen]

... so a major international corporation being expressly capitalist (what a shocker!) inherently taints their products on a per-product basis, a taint that also then transfers to individuals? Yeah, sorry, I don't follow that logic. Questions like this can't be atomized into individuals and single decisions. As I said above, I as every other human being on earth am absolutely hypocritical in a number of ways. I still try to act in line with my views to the best of my abilities - and IMO, taking a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to get to use a high-end GPU when my old one was barely scraping by is barely a blip on that scale. There might - just might! -be more meaningful actions one can take, such as ... oh, I don't know, voting, being in a union, leading a low-waste, low-consumption lifestyle, etc. But there's a crucial point you're misisng here, that was explicit in my above posts: individualizing questions like this is a diversionary tactic on your part, nothing more. Individual actions don't matter in the grand scheme of things. Individualization of responsibility for societal ills is a key tactic of neoliberal capitalism, moving the focus from reforming our economic systems and putting responsibility onto major actors and instead onto individual people and making them feel a need to living "responsible lives". While consumption overall is a major problem on many front, the major driver of consumption isn't some innate desire to consume, but rather the manufacturing of this desire through marketing and cultural production. In order to change society for the better, one needs to start reforms from the top, putting pressure on major actors with resources and access - that's how you enact meaningful change. Starting from the bottom, guilt-tripping individuals into "buying better" is diversionary nonsense that only serves to undermine any effort towards real change.

Well from my perspective the 3090 Ti has less of an environmental impact than the e-waste 6500XT/6400 that people are gonna use for a year then throw away en masse, so I guess I should make a petition asking AMD to stop polluting the earth with those dGPU, let see how that turn out.

@Valantar You bro are totally right. The perception of people seeing 3090 and Ti's for this price and being OK with it is going to harm them sooner or later, considering where things are going. But how to explain people who even protect this type of travesty?
I see some are saying that the perf/$ is the same or higher. well if you bump the price for lower tier cards to make them less desirable sure. Well, with that approach, if (same people) say that the 4090 lets say, is going to be 2 times faster than a 3090, we should have the 4090 sold for $3.9k? It would still be a good value in some people's eyes, won't it? That thinking is so demeaning or simply plain stupid. I'm sure when it comes to that all those above saying it is OK will literally bite their tongues. There is finite resources people have. I can buy a card for $4k not a problem but I don't want to do that for whatever reason and definitely not gonna say it is OK because there is a value there. Value, has something more than perf/$ mark. We cant also put the blame on inflation that's for sure. It is a planned approach for companies that has been developing for years. It needs time and by reading some of the posts here it is definitely working.

BTW, Titan cards had a different driver which was enabling features other consumer cards did not have. This has been brought to discussion when 1000 series cards were released and titan was missing. Of course the top consumer card reached the titan price point obviously.

I will tell you what, if 4090 were 4k usd and Navi31 were 2k usd and they offer the same rasterization/RT, I will definitely buy Navi31, not like I'm forced to buy Nvidia am I

Are you gonna say the Navi31 is stupid a GPU at 2k? I guess you won't

 

[wolf]

Native is best, I don't think that's ever been up for debate

Not sure you saw my quote in a previous reply, you believe this is the case? From what I've seen and know, it's not debated anymore that Native can be exceeded, the first example that springs to mind is traditional supersampling.

Take this example, you have a 1080p monitor, you render at 4k, downsample that to 1080p and display it. Yet to see that not look better (cleaner, more detail)

 

[Chrispy_]

Not sure you saw my quote in a previous reply, you believe this is the case? From what I've seen and know, it's not debated anymore that Native can be exceeded, the first example that springs to mind is traditional supersampling.

Take this example, you have a 1080p monitor, you render at 4k, downsample that to 1080p and display it. Yet to see that not look better.

The context of the discussion was specifically ways to improve framerate, making a card like the 6700XT or 3060Ti playable at 4K when native framerates weren't good enough.
so in context it's "native vs upscaled" and nothing else.

Supersampling is genuinely great for image quality but if you're struggling to get playable framerates at 4K, turning on supersampling and rendering the game internally at 8K sure as heck isn't going to be of any use. I would have thought that was such a blindingly obvious fact that it didn't need specifically mentioning.

 

[wolf]

Native is best, I don't think that's ever been up for debate

The context of the discussion was specifically ways to improve framerate

Seems to me like that statement is inferring image quality, and if we agree that;

Supersampling is genuinely great for image quality

And what DLSS aims to do is supersampling, it mustn't be impossible that at least aspects of the image can be a positive for image quality over native.

I'm not saying it doesn't have negatives, but I turn DLSS on not only because framerate goes up, but because it looks genuinely better to my eyes/tastes.

 

[ratirt]

I will tell you what, if 4090 were 4k usd and Navi31 were 2k usd and they offer the same rasterization/RT, I will definitely buy Navi31, not like I'm forced to buy Nvidia am I

Are you gonna say the Navi31 is stupid a GPU at 2k? I guess you won't

You are missing the point and you yourself bring arguments which are total nonsense.
The price gauging that has happened and is still in effect till this day, was terrible and I dont want to see it. Looking for an excuse to justify incredible price increase with new GPUs is foolish and I wont say it is OK, no matter which producer is behind it, especially if the demand is dropping and situation is stabilizing slowly. But obviously for you is just looking for an excuse ain't that right?
You would buy it because you are blind and a hypocrite and all you do here is troll and fail to admit you are wrong. Which makes sense considering your communistic ideology which you have announced yourself. Good luck with that.

Well from my perspective the 3090 Ti has less of an environmental impact than the e-waste 6500XT/6400 that people are gonna use for a year then throw away en masse, so I guess I should make a petition asking AMD to stop polluting the earth with those dGPU, let see how that turn out.

Holy crap. Just stop talking dude. For real, because what you are saying is surreal.

 

[Valantar]

Well from my perspective the 3090 Ti has less of an environmental impact than the e-waste 6500XT/6400 that people are gonna use for a year then throw away en masse, so I guess I should make a petition asking AMD to stop polluting the earth with those dGPU, let see how that turn out.

And then we can check whataboutism off the bad-faith arguing tactic sheet too! Cool! I can't believe I still haven't had a bingo, but I must be getting close. In a way, this is both a straw man argument and whataboutism - it's a twofer! What a deal! I mean, have I even argued that the 6500 XT/6400 are better for the environment than this? I mean, I could, but... please, please stop making up fictitious positions to argue against. If you've got nothing better to bring to the table, maybe consider that there's a reason why you're running out of arguments?

 

[nguyen]

And then we can check whataboutism off the bad-faith arguing tactic sheet too! Cool! I can't believe I still haven't had a bingo, but I must be getting close. In a way, this is both a straw man argument and whataboutism - it's a twofer! What a deal! I mean, have I even argued that the 6500 XT/6400 are better for the environment than this? I mean, I could, but... please, please stop making up fictitious positions to argue against. If you've got nothing better to bring to the table, maybe consider that there's a reason why you're running out of arguments?

Yeah sure when you stop being a hypocrite then I will stop arguing, but I guess that argument will last for eternity.

You are missing the point and you yourself bring arguments which are total nonsense.
The price gauging that has happened and is still in effect till this day, was terrible and I dont want to see it. Looking for an excuse to justify incredible price increase with new GPUs is foolish and I wont say it is OK, no matter which producer is behind it, especially if the demand is dropping and situation is stabilizing slowly. But obviously for you is just looking for an excuse ain't that right?
You would buy it because you are blind and a hypocrite and all you do here is troll and fail to admit you are wrong. Which makes sense considering your communistic ideology which you have announced yourself. Good luck with that.

Holy crap. Just stop talking dude. For real, because what you are saying is surreal.

I had education in the US, so I yearn for freedom to buy whatever I want without hearing from hypocrite like you saying paying 2000usd for a GPU is bad (while you paid ~1500usd for a GPU is totally okay)

I guess because there are people who live in third world country with more disposable income than you kinda make you feel bad about yourself huh, too bad then.

But hey one of my friend is famous modder that make awesome builds that cost ~20k usd, maybe I should get him to make me one like this .

 

[Valantar]

Yeah sure when you stop being a hypocrite then I will stop arguing, I guess that argument will last for eternity.

I have yet to see you present a compelling argument as to why my individual decisions, the context of which you know exactly nothing about, actually matter to this discussion. But I guess it's rather obvious that your goal here is exactly to detail the discussion rather than to bring anything useful to the table.

As I said before: we're all hypocrites on some level. That I happened to take an opportunity that could get me off the PC upgrade bandwagon for something like 5 years IMO does nothing to undermine the value of my anticapitalist arguments, nor does it go against my politics more broadly. We as individuals have no direct choice towards the economic systems in which we live out our lives (we can only work to try and change or uphold them, but nothing is guaranteed) and as such are forced by circumstance to act in ways that often go against our principles or larger scale desires. This renders arguments for the individual evils of overconsumption for all but the most extreme cases entirely irrelevant. I see no issue with occasionally splurging on creature comforts if they allow me more happiness or a better life somehow - and if that's the standard you're holding people to for even acknowledging their arguments, then there literally doesn't exist a single person on earth who would meet that standard.

 

[nguyen]

This renders arguments for the individual evils of overconsumption for all but the most extreme cases entirely irrelevant. I see no issue with occasionally splurging on creature comforts if they allow me more happiness or a better life somehow - and if that's the standard you're holding people to for even acknowledging their arguments, then there literally doesn't exist a single person on earth who would meet that standard.

Well I have been splurging on high end GPUs for 20 years now and still love doing so, my wife is not complaining since I'm happy at home playing games instead of going out drinking and hooking up with other girls (very popular activity in my country).

I love it when my country is opening up to capitalism, allowing free trade is so beneficial for everyone. Decade ago I had to travel to Singapore or Japan to even buy high end GPU and now I could buy 3090 Ti from retail for MSRP (sound crazy when median income here is only 8k usd/year ).

I studied in the US for 4 years from 2002-2006 and boy I swapped GPU like crazy during those time . So yeah, seems super counter-intuitive to me when people from capitalist country wishing for less capitalism

 

[qubit]

@W1zzard Great review, as always. This is an impressive card at a reassuringly unaffordable price, sigh.

Anyway, could you please do all of us enthusiasts a little favour? I bet this card is powerful enough to game at 8K decently, especially less demanding ones, so could you please do a couple of quickie benchies at that resolution? Perhaps one with maxed details like you do for a regular review and another with reduced details to see what kind of framerate it can reach at 8K? I'd love to know how good it is at that resolution.

And by 8K, I mean a 4K monitor with 8K Dynamic Super Resolution set to 4x so you don't have to rush out and buy an 8K monitor.

 

[Valantar]

Well I have been splurging on high end GPUs for 20 years now and still love doing so, my wife is not complaining since I'm happy at home playing games instead of going out drinking and hooking up with other girls (very popular activity in my country).

I love it when my country is opening up to capitalism, allowing free trade is so beneficial for everyone. Decade ago I had to travel to Singapore or Japan to even buy high end GPU and now I could buy 3090 Ti from retail for MSRP (sound crazy when median income here is only 8k usd/year ).

I studied in the US for 4 years from 2002-2006 and boy I swapped GPU like crazy during those time . So yeah, seems super counter-intuitive to me when people from capitalist country wishing for less capitalism

Since we're getting pretty OT here I'll stick this in a spoiler tag.

Spoiler

The reason for that is quite simple: some of us living under capitalism can see the massive harm it causes. That obviously doesn't negate the harm done by people and regimes representing non-capitalist ideologies, but the harms caused by capitalism still utterly dwarf those others - by orders of magnitude.

The problem with this discussion, as with most relating to this, is that "free trade" can mean many, many, many different things, and doesn't even necessarily mean capitalism. Capitalism is a relatively recent invention; trade has existed for thousands of years. On the other hand our current branch of capitalism, the globally dominant one typically known as late stage capitalism, is characterized by massive environmental harms, massive and increasing wealth inequality, rampant pseudo-slavery in the global South, overconsumption of finite resources, stagnant wages for workers, the rich hoarding wealth and power, the weakening of democratic institutions and societal trust, and a lot more. It is, in essence, a death cult, where a handful of the ultrarich and their ideologues have managed to convince a shocking number of people that it's perfectly fine to burn the planet to the ground in order to make these people even richer.

Of course there's a common chorus of "but capitalism has lifted so many people out of poverty", about which the only problem is that there is essentially zero causal evidence for this. The world has seen a massive increase in living standards over the past couple of centuries, and has seen massive increases in quality of life due to developments in medicine and healthcare, infrastructure, agriculture, and a ton more. Very little of that can be causally attributed to capitalism per se, and while most of it has happened within capitalist countries, most of the world has also been capitalist during this time, meaning we have essentially no control group, and thus no way of determining whether capitalism actually is causally related to this or not. The same goes for the "competition and wealth are the strongest incentives" line supporting this. Or, that one's easily refuted, actually. Most people are more motivated by doing good by their own ethics, whatever they might be, than by wealth - or by security, kinship, interest, curiosity, and much more. (There is of course a group where gaining wealth is doing good by their own ethics, but that's a relatively small group.) The capitalist explanation of how it is supposedly beneficial to the world is, in a broad sense, simplistic and lacking in evidence.

There is of course also the limits on trade imposed by capitalist countries on non-capitalist ones - the US blockade of Cuba is an apt example of this that applies to this day. The main hindrance to Cuban prosperity has been and continues to be US sanctions and restrictions on trade, far more than its regime and politics. So pretending as if capitalism is somehow universally for "free trade" is a misnomer - it's intentionally a closed-off in-group where someone is defined as the outsider. This also applies in a weaker sense to the factory nations of the world, which produce the vast majority of the goods sold in rich Western countries, yet see exceedingly little benefit from this. Imperialist exploitation of labor and resources in poorer countries is also an inherent part of capitalism - it is entirely predicated on there existing some poorer place from which cheap labor and resources can be extracted.

So, while there are absolutely benefits to the opening up of various regimes across the globe - insular politics are rarely good for anyone - any move towards the currently dominant mode of capitalism is one that will be deeply harmful in the long term.

From what you're saying here it sounds like you've lived a pretty privileged life compared to most of your compatriots - and pretty much anyone I know. Of course that's all a matter of perspective, and I'm well aware of the massive privilege I have just from being born where I was. Still, sounds like you've got a lot to be grateful for. Given how important games have been and are for me, I have a far more vested interest in gaming becoming more accessible rather than us privileged few getting more expensive stuff to spend our money on. Sadly the signs are pretty clear, including the pricing and positioning of the 3090 Ti, that GPU makers are going the opposite way. And that's a damn shame, for the games industry, for us games lovers, and for people in general.

 

[Chrispy_]

And what DLSS aims to do is supersampling, it mustn't be impossible that at least aspects of the image can be a positive for image quality over native.

You're confusing supersampling (AKA DSR, VSR) and subsampling (AKA DLSS/FFX/upscaling)

It doesn't help that Nvidia calls DLSS "Deep Learning Super Sampling" in a way to make their subsampling upscaler tech sound better than it it is, but it's not your GPU that's performing supersampling; Your GPU is upscaling.

Nvidia's excuse for calling it "Deep Learning Super Sampling" is that they took 16K reference samples, fed that into their deep learning supercomputers, and used that information to generate AA profiles on a per-game basis. Those 16K reference samples sure were supersampled, but that all went out of the window with DLSS 2.0 which basically abandoned that dubious brag and switched to a more generic motion-vector-aware + temporal AA run on the otherwise unused tensor cores in RTX architecture. Your Geforce RTX has never ever been involved with any supersampling by using DLSS.

The thing that makes DLSS "better than native" in some scenarios is that the AA algorithm used for DLSS is very very good, and it's better than TAA. Some games now support this - it's called DLAA and at native resolution it's the most expensive and best-looking AA you can get in modern game engines. I put "better than native" in quotes because if an image is simple enough, the benefit of DLAA vs regular FXAA or TAA is enough to offset the blur and interpolation of upscaling. If the game has loads of 1-pixel wide details, DLSS sucks. If the game doesn't, DLSS can hide the upscaling pretty well. YMMV depending on the actual game, and also from scene-to-scene depending on what sort of things are being rendered at the time.

 

[wolf]

You're confusing

No, I'm not confusing them.

It doesn't help that Nvidia calls DLSS "Deep Learning Super Sampling" in a way to make their subsampling upscaler tech sound better than it it is, but it's not your GPU that's performing supersampling; Your GPU is upscaling.

It's reconstruction, not upscaling, but I get where you're going with it.

Your Geforce RTX has never ever been involved with any supersampling by using DLSS.

I wouldn't be too sure about that

The thing that makes DLSS "better than native" in some scenarios

So, it is possible, on this we can agree.

If the game has loads of 1-pixel wide details, DLSS sucks. If the game doesn't, DLSS can hide the upscaling pretty well.

DLSS excels at sub-pixel detail, it's strengths are often in 1 pixel wide details. You talk with a lot of authority about it, but from what I can see that authority is somewhat misplaced.

In any case, I think that probably does it for me, I don't see this conversation continuing and benefitting either of us, as I neither require nor desire your spurious explanations, and I doubt you'll legitimately take on board anything I have to say about it.

 

[ratirt]

I had education in the US, so I yearn for freedom to buy whatever I want without hearing from hypocrite like you saying paying 2000usd for a GPU is bad (while you paid ~1500usd for a GPU is totally okay)

I guess because there are people who live in third world country with more disposable income than you kinda make you feel bad about yourself huh, too bad then.

But hey one of my friend is famous modder that make awesome builds that cost ~20k usd, maybe I should get him to make me one like this .

Well, the education didn't give you a lot that's for sure. I guess you are losing arguments since you bring my GPU up. I didnt have a choice did I and I had to get one when during the pandemic where the shortage of the GPU's was astronomical. But I guess that is not important right?
Please google what freedom is since you absolutely have no idea. The difference between you and me, I don't need to show off how much money I have and brag about how many famous people I know. You will always be from a 3rd world not because you don't have money but you don't have respect for it and other's without it.
You are someone that will never understand. No matter how many schools and where you finish. Please google also what a hypocrite is because you call everyone that but that is you. You don't acknowledge any argument.
It is not just about paying 2000USD. Why do you keep twisting words huh? derail everything people say? Read again and again until you understand. Didn't you have reading classes at the school?

@W1zzard Great review, as always. This is an impressive card at a reassuringly unaffordable price, sigh.

Anyway, could you please do all of us enthusiasts a little favour? I bet this card is powerful enough to game at 8K decently, especially less demanding ones, so could you please do a couple of quickie benchies at that resolution? Perhaps one with maxed details like you do for a regular review and another with reduced details to see what kind of framerate it can reach at 8K? I'd love to know how good it is at that resolution.

And by 8K, I mean a 4K monitor with 8K Dynamic Super Resolution set to 4x so you don't have to rush out and buy an 8K monitor.

I remember Linus had a video playing 8K DOOM on the 3090 back then. It ran pretty solid but considering the game is well optimized no wonder.
To be fair, not all games will run OK at 8K no matter what card you use available today.

 

[Valantar]

I had education in the US, so I yearn for freedom to buy whatever I want without hearing from hypocrite like you saying paying 2000usd for a GPU is bad (while you paid ~1500usd for a GPU is totally okay)

Apparently I missed this part, but this is precisely how you're missing the point. Nobody is arguing that "paying X for a GPU is bad per se, paying Y would be good". That is a pure-bred straw man argument, neither more nor less. You're attempting to simplify the arguments presented, but instead you're twisting them into something literally nobody has argued either for or against in this thread. We're talking about the effects of the existence of consumer GPUs at these price points, long term, on things like how accessible PC gaming is, its overall value proposition, how it affects the people who care about it, how much they have to sacrifice for it, how much they are being exploited by corporations, etc. And, to simplify things (as you apparently have a strong desire for that), IMO the ever-increasing price ceiling of consumer GPUs will affect every single one of those aspects negatively - less accessible, lower value, more stressful and requiring more significant sacrifices, more exploitation. And for what? For a small segment of relatively wealthy and privileged people to have even fancier GPUs. As I have argued above, there is good reason to expect this top-end price development to have knock-on effects for mainstream and even low-end GPUs. Which will hurt essentially everybody.

Sadly it seems like that education also came with a set of blinders for the context and consequences of thta "freedom to buy whatever you want" - or just a complete lack of caring about the harm it causes. Either way, those are some beliefs worth revisiting. Unchecked consumption is inherently harmful on a planet with finite resources. As I said above, there's nothing wrong with buying or doing whatever you want - as the saying goes, there is no etihcal consumption under capitalism. It's logically and materially impossible. But the overall direction of your choices, actions and expressed opinions still matter, and from your arguments here it seems like you're perfectly fine with a world of increased exploitation, increasingly massive wealth gaps, increased precarity, continued material overconsumption, and more.

No, I'm not confusing them.

It's reconstruction, not upscaling, but I get where you're going with it.

"Reconstruction" is a bit of a misnomer too though. It's speculative reconstruction - adding "back" detail that it assumes was supposed to be there, based on a best-guess model trained on various images. These models can be very good, and can identify missing detail based on very small traces, but it's still a form of upscaling, as it starts with a lower resolution image and scales it to a higher resolution.

 

[wolf]

"Reconstruction" is a bit of a misnomer too though. It's speculative reconstruction - adding "back" detail that it assumes was supposed to be there, based on a best-guess model trained on various images. These models can be very good, and can identify missing detail based on very small traces, but it's still a form of upscaling, as it starts with a lower resolution image and scales it to a higher resolution.

Not only those models, but viewport/pixel jittering and access to the historical buffer give it more information than simply taking a lower resolution image and scaling it to higher resolution, this is how it is able to excel at sub-pixel and very fine details, and as many reviewers have covered, those aspects can certainly be better than native.

I can fully agree the sort of 'end goal' here is what people would call upscaling, but the devil is in the details (huehue), and those details can and do take on a super sampled appearance.

 

[Valantar]

Not only those models, but viewport/pixel jittering and access to the historical buffer give it more information than simply taking a lower resolution image and scaling it to higher resolution, this is how it is able to excel at sub-pixel and very fine details, and as many reviewers have covered, those aspects can certainly be better than native.

I can fully agree the sort of 'end goal' here is what people would call upscaling, but the devil is in the details (huehue), and those details can and do take on a super sampled appearance.

Yep, this is absolutely true. But the base process is still an upscaling process, just upscaling + secret detail creation sauce. Motion vectors are a huge help in this, clearly, though it still won't overcome fundamental per-game issues like engines that cut various details and elements from a scene as render resolution is lowered. But in the best implementations, it can absolutely take on a quasi-supersampled look.

Ironically, DLAA might be more deserving of the DLSS name than DLSS is

 

[nguyen]

Well, the education didn't give you a lot that's for sure. I guess you are losing arguments since you bring my GPU up. I didnt have a choice did I and I had to get one when during the pandemic where the shortage of the GPU's was astronomical. But I guess that is not important right?
Please google what freedom is since you absolutely have no idea. The difference between you and me, I don't need to show off how much money I have and brag about how many famous people I know. You will always be from a 3rd world not because you don't have money but you don't have respect for it and other's without it.
You are someone that will never understand. No matter how many schools and where you finish. Please google also what a hypocrite is because you call everyone that but that is you. You don't acknowledge any argument.
It is not just about paying 2000USD. Why do you keep twisting words huh? derail everything people say? Read again and again until you understand. Didn't you have reading classes at the school?

I have never been contradictory in my argument and action, you did. So yeah, too bad you aren't fully aware of your hypocrisy, at least @Valantar accepts that he's by some degree.

Let me explain why you are a hypocrite, you have no problem spending a lot of money on GPU yourself, yet you denounce when more expensive GPU come out. It's like you only look up in contempt while never looking down. You feel belittled when other people spend more money on PC hobby than you, which is a worrying trait if you want to live a happy life.

For me I just happily play game, detached from the massive inequality that exist in my society .

Apparently I missed this part, but this is precisely how you're missing the point. Nobody is arguing that "paying X for a GPU is bad per se, paying Y would be good". That is a pure-bred straw man argument, neither more nor less. You're attempting to simplify the arguments presented, but instead you're twisting them into something literally nobody has argued either for or against in this thread. We're talking about the effects of the existence of consumer GPUs at these price points, long term, on things like how accessible PC gaming is, its overall value proposition, how it affects the people who care about it, how much they have to sacrifice for it, how much they are being exploited by corporations, etc. And, to simplify things (as you apparently have a strong desire for that), IMO the ever-increasing price ceiling of consumer GPUs will affect every single one of those aspects negatively - less accessible, lower value, more stressful and requiring more significant sacrifices, more exploitation. And for what? For a small segment of relatively wealthy and privileged people to have even fancier GPUs. As I have argued above, there is good reason to expect this top-end price development to have knock-on effects for mainstream and even low-end GPUs. Which will hurt essentially everybody.

Hm, we have more than enough gaming GPU for everyone on earth already, why do you think more people should have more GPUs, leading to more e-waste?

You are denoucing one aspect of capitalism while encourage the other: over consumption, that's why I brought out the 6500XT/6400 example.

If next gen GPUs are overpriced, what's to stop people from buying used GPU? Do you think buying used GPU is a sin or something .

Like I said many times now, if next gen don't bring any benefit in efficiency and price to performance, there is no reason to buy them, just look away. Nvidia and AMD will get the memo, they need customers, we don't need them.

In short, fighting for more accessible gaming GPU is just useless endeavour, completely meaningless IMO. Gaming is a luxury, not a necessity.

 

[ratirt]

I have never been contradictory in my argument and action, you did. So yeah, too bad you aren't fully aware of your hypocrisy, at least @Valantar accepts that he's by some degree.

Let me explain why you are a hypocrite, you have no problem spending a lot of money on GPU yourself, yet you denounce when more expensive GPU come out. It's like you only look up in contempt while never looking down. You feel belittled when other people spend more money on PC hobby than you, which is a worrying trait if you want to live a happy life.

For me I just happily play game, detached from the massive inequality that exist in my society .

You are doing it again. Twist what i said. I never said you contradict your arguments you literally do not take anyone else's arguments in the conversation and you claim that I'm accusing you of contradiction to your statements and you keep calling people hypocrites while you are one. You have a proof in your statement twisting what people said and what opinions they have been putting so you can see their point of view. Just because I bought a 6900XT in a pandemic and shortages, because I didnt have a choice, but I still don't like the pricing and where it leads too, makes me a hypocrite? For the last time google what a hypocritical person means.
I don't need your explanations. Focus on the topic.
If you only want to play your games then play games and stop calling people hypocrites because they disagree with your vision of GPUs pricing and what it already does. You have the dough? Great, buy a card, go play games.

Still price gauging of the GPUs pricing no matter what the perf/$ is, is going to diminish the better value of the entry and mid range cards since the price for those will triple and it already did. How is anyone OK with it except you? Just because you have cash it is ok? Well news flash buddy. If this is going to keep up than you will need more lucrative job as well so do not celebrate yet. Or do celebrate while you still can

 

[nguyen]

You are doing it again. Twist what i said. I never said you contradict your arguments you literally do not take anyone else's arguments in the conversation and you claim that I'm accusing you of contradiction to your statements and you keep calling people hypocrites while you are one. You have a proof in your statement twisting what people said and what opinions they have been putting so you can see their point of view. Just because I bought a 6900XT in a pandemic and shortages, because I didnt have a choice, but I still don't like the pricing and where it leads too, makes me a hypocrite? For the last time google what a hypocritical person means.
I don't need your explanations. Focus on the topic.
If you only want to play your games then play games and stop calling people hypocrites because they disagree with your vision of GPUs pricing and what it already does. You have the dough? Great, buy a card, go play games.

Still price gauging of the GPUs pricing no matter what the perf/$ is, is going to diminish the better value of the entry and mid range cards since the price for those will triple and it already did. How is anyone OK with it except you? Just because you have cash it is ok? Well news flash buddy. If this is going to keep up than you will need more lucrative job as well so do not celebrate yet. Or do celebrate while you still can

Sorry but what was the topic again? I thought this thread was about the 3090 Ti, not about the dark future of PC gaming that you and some others are dreaming of .

IMO 3090 Ti is a crappy GPU for 2000usd, hopefully Nvida get it right with their next 2000usd GPU. End of discussion.