MSI Radeon RX 6950 XT Gaming X Trio

[ratirt]

Maybe you dont get Lumen software is for hardware like the new consoles and it states this fact in the UE5 documentation. High end PC's as pointed out before will use HW Ray Tracing as they support that feature. That why a 2000 series nvidia gpu and above and an amd 6000 series as about are listed for HW RT. Note Lumen software mode hammers the cpu and will reduce fps massively.

I understand what you are saying but that does not mean you have to have RT cores. (like MineCraft has been designed to NV and on AMD it sucks, it is unplayable due to lack of RT cores, Still AMD can run ray traced mine craft but it is slow) UE5 will not have that distinguishing factor. That is my point here. You don't and this engine has not been design to cater to NV's RT cores. These are irrelevant here. Obviously the card must have a hardware acceleration for ray tracing.

You can hve a 50 game review and never touch a raster game. Accept that I have some degree of a point. Gaslighting me wont work.

Listen, I don't doubt your degree or anything because I really dont care and RT will become a norm for all games but it is not today.
For now, even the 3090Ti has a problem with running certain games fully ray traced so if that is the future (I believe it is), it will not happen today. So maybe stop arguing that Ray Tracing is so damn important because that is a subjective matter here.

 

[kapone32]

Maybe you dont get Lumen software is for hardware like the new consoles and it states this fact in the UE5 documentation. High end PC's as pointed out before will use HW Ray Tracing as they support that feature. That why a 2000 series nvidia gpu and above and an amd 6000 series as about are listed for HW RT. Note Lumen software mode hammers the cpu and will reduce fps massively.



https://docs.unrealengine.com/5.0/en-US/lumen-global-illumination-and-reflections-in-unreal-engine/


You can play the titanic demo. Its basiclly created so you can see the inside of the titanic. In Unreal Engine 5 you can 100% use hardware Ray Tracing in real time. Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition is pathtraced with infinite light bounces.



Then you state its slowly adopting, the list of RT games.

AMID EVIL
Aron's Adventure
Battlefield 2042
Battlefield V
BIOHAZARD VILLAGE Z Version
Bright Memory
Bright Memory: Infinite
Call of Duty: Black Ops Cold War
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare
Chernobylite
Chorus
Control
Crysis Remastered
Crysis 2 Remastered
Crysis 3 Remastered
Cyberpunk 2077
Deathloop
Deliver Us The Moon
DiRT 5
Domino Simulator 2020
DOOM Eternal
Dying Light 2 Stay Human
Enscape
Escape From Naraka
F1 2021
F.I.S.T.: Forged In Shadow Torch
Far Cry 6
Five Nights at Freddy's: Security Breach
Fortnite
Forza Horizon 5
Ghostrunner
Ghostwire: Tokyo
Godfall
Helios
Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice
ICARUS
INDUSTRIA
Justice
JX3 Online RTX Version
LEGO Builder's Journey
Life Is Strange: True Colors
Martha Is Dead
Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy
Mechwarrior 5: Mercenaries
Mercs Fully Loaded
Metro Exodus PC Enhanced Edition
Minecraft with RTX
Moonlight Blade
Mortal Shell
Myst
Myth of Empires
Observer: System Redux
Paradise Killer
Poker Club
Pumpkin Jack
Quake II RTX
RAZE 2070
Redout: Space Assault
Resident Evil Village
Rune II
Severed Steel
Shadow of the Tomb Raider
Soulmate
Stay in the Light
Sword and Fairy 7
The Ascent
The Fabled Woods
The Medium
The Orville Interactive Fan Experience
The Persistence
The Riftbreaker
The Riftbreaker: Prologue
To Hell With It
Watch Dogs: Legion
Wolfenstein: Youngblood
World of Warcraft: Shadowlands
Wrench
Xuan-Yuan Sword VII

You can hve a 50 game review and never touch a raster game. Accept that I have some degree of a point. Gaslighting me wont work.

Comments like this are why the industry likes to call Gaming "rasterization" BTW the list of SLI supported Games is higher. Is RT going to last? It is a rage now but so was Physx. It is not the because the product is Bad but the way it is implemented is desultory. That list you are quoting only got expanded after FSR.

 

[zx128k]

I understand what you are saying but that does not mean you have to have RT cores. (like MineCraft has been designed to NV and on AMD it sucks, it is unplayable due to lack of RT cores, Still AMD can run ray traced mine craft but it is slow) UE5 will not have that distinguishing factor. That is my point here. You don't and this engine has not been design to cater to NV's RT cores. These are irrelevant here. Obviously the card must have a hardware acceleration for ray tracing.

Listen, I don't doubt your degree or anything because I really dont care and RT will become a norm for all games but it is not today.
For now, even the 3090Ti has a problem with running certain games fully ray traced so if that is the future (I believe it is), it will not happen today. So maybe stop arguing that Ray Tracing is so damn important because that is a subjective matter here.

Your personal opinion aside. All games are going to be ray traced, raster is just a fallback for lagecy low end hardware. Many games are hybrid RT like Cyberpunk 2077. A RTX 2060 can still run every RT game at 1080p with all the bells and whistles turned on. RT is the norm for games, right now. no one cares if you like it or not. No one cares about your opinion, developers are rushing to develop their games with RT features. RT is replacing raster, the whole market sees it driving hardware sales and sales of new games for the future.

You see raster has reach the limit of the technology. NVidia could see that companies like AMD would catchup with performance. So would iGPUs. So Ray Tracing will keep the new gpu cycle going. You will like with raster before it, buy a new gpu for faster speeds. All new games will support RT as part of driving new hardware sales. NVidia 3000 series is now completely dominating the market for sales. RT won, nvidia won. Raster focused cards like the AMD 6000 series will perform poorly in this new paradigm.

All the new engines like UE5 will be RT and its faster and cheaper to develop games in RT.

 

[ratirt]

Your personal opinion aside. All games are going to be ray traced, raster is just a fallback for lagecy low end hardware. Many games are hybrid RT like Cyberpunk 2077. A RTX 2060 can still run every RT game at 1080p with all the bells and whistles turned on. RT is the norm for games, right now. no one cares if you like it or not. No one cares about your opinion, developers are rushing to develop their games with RT features. RT is replacing raster, the whole market sees it driving hardware sales and sales of new games for the future.

My personal opinion? There is no Ray Tracing without rasterization tap that. You think if you switch to RT the rasterization is gone?
Yes all games are going to be at some point but it is NOT TODAY and rasterization is still here to stay.
RT is not the norm for games. That is your opinion because you have to have a crazy hardware to run it properly. Developers expand their products with RT as an option not obligatory feature.
Rasterization is the most relevant for games as of today that is a fact not an opinion. Ray Tracing importance today is an opinion.

 

[zx128k]

My personal opinion? There is no Ray Tracing without rasterization tap that. You think if you switch to RT the rasterization is gone?
Yes all games are going to be at some point but it is NOT TODAY and rasterization is still here to stay.
RT is not the norm for games. That is your opinion because you have to have a crazy hardware to run it properly. Developers expand their products with RT as an option not obligatory feature.
Rasterization is the most relevant for games as of today that is a fact not an opinion. Ray Tracing importance today is an opinion.

RT is the norn, this is objectivity obviously true. UE5 is the end of raster lighting and the begining of pure RT games even on consoles. Hardware which no support for RT will do it in software Lumen and hardware with RT support will use hardware acceleration. There is no raster in this equation, thus there is only RT.

 

[Valantar]

Maybe you dont get Lumen software is for hardware like the new consoles and it states this fact in the UE5 documentation. High end PC's as pointed out before will use HW Ray Tracing as they support that feature. That why a 2000 series nvidia gpu and above and an amd 6000 series as about are listed for HW RT. Note Lumen software mode hammers the cpu and will reduce fps massively.



https://docs.unrealengine.com/5.0/en-US/lumen-global-illumination-and-reflections-in-unreal-engine/


You can play the titanic demo. Its basiclly created so you can see the inside of the titanic. In Unreal Engine 5 you can 100% use hardware Ray Tracing in real time. Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition is pathtraced with infinite light bounces.

Yes, I know you can play it. That was part of my point: you can play that, and it looks comparable to current good-looking games, even some without RT effects. That workshop demo on the other hand is in an entirely different league of photorealism, detail and general visual quality, and is not real-time whatsoever. I never said that you can't use hardware RT in real-time in UE5, I said that the level of visual quality you're referring to either isn't that impressive or isn't real time, and that full RT, non-rasterized games are still a long, long way out. Heck, we can barely run Quake II and Minecraft levels of exclusive-RT rendering on current hardware at decent resolutions and frame rates. And you're proposing we're soon getting triple-A level fully RT graphics in the near future? That's preposterous. Plain and simple. That statement has zero support in reality.

Then you state its slowly adopting, the list of RT games.

AMID EVIL
Aron's Adventure
Battlefield 2042
Battlefield V
BIOHAZARD VILLAGE Z Version
Bright Memory
Bright Memory: Infinite
Call of Duty: Black Ops Cold War
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare
Chernobylite
Chorus
Control
Crysis Remastered
Crysis 2 Remastered
Crysis 3 Remastered
Cyberpunk 2077
Deathloop
Deliver Us The Moon
DiRT 5
Domino Simulator 2020
DOOM Eternal
Dying Light 2 Stay Human
Enscape
Escape From Naraka
F1 2021
F.I.S.T.: Forged In Shadow Torch
Far Cry 6
Five Nights at Freddy's: Security Breach
Fortnite
Forza Horizon 5
Ghostrunner
Ghostwire: Tokyo
Godfall
Helios
Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice
ICARUS
INDUSTRIA
Justice
JX3 Online RTX Version
LEGO Builder's Journey
Life Is Strange: True Colors
Martha Is Dead
Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy
Mechwarrior 5: Mercenaries
Mercs Fully Loaded
Metro Exodus PC Enhanced Edition
Minecraft with RTX
Moonlight Blade
Mortal Shell
Myst
Myth of Empires
Observer: System Redux
Paradise Killer
Poker Club
Pumpkin Jack
Quake II RTX
RAZE 2070
Redout: Space Assault
Resident Evil Village
Rune II
Severed Steel
Shadow of the Tomb Raider
Soulmate
Stay in the Light
Sword and Fairy 7
The Ascent
The Fabled Woods
The Medium
The Orville Interactive Fan Experience
The Persistence
The Riftbreaker
The Riftbreaker: Prologue
To Hell With It
Watch Dogs: Legion
Wolfenstein: Youngblood
World of Warcraft: Shadowlands
Wrench
Xuan-Yuan Sword VII

You can hve a 50 game review and never touch a raster game. Accept that I have some degree of a point. Gaslighting me wont work.

That was, what, 78 games? That's ... not a lot. At all. Launched since RTX came out in 2019? Don't most game sites these days either run "best 50 games" lists or give each of their editors a pick of their top ten games per year to try and give some overview of noteworthy launches in the landscape of reasonably high profile game launches in a year? (Yes, they do: Polygon.com: best 50. Gamesradar: best 40. Gamespot: best 10+ games in 9 different categories. etc., etc.)

78 games in three years since then, many of which are either bundled remakes (Crysis, Myst,), toys/tech demos (Quake, Minecraft) annualized sequels on the same engine (CoD), or just late-stage updates adding some RT effects (Hellblade, SotTR), or just low profile or poorly received games (Godfall, the dozens of titles on that list that essentially nobody has heard of or played) is in no way an indication of RT being dominant in any way. Steam gets thousands of launches a year - most of which are of course garbage shovelware, but there are easily hundreds of good titles in there each year - and consoles have hundreds of launches a year, with a much higher quality floor than Steam. And, crucially, all but a select few of those games have fully rasterized modes, and are mostly played in those modes (as few people have the required hardware to enable their RT effects).

Telling you RT isn't dominant is not gaslighting, it is an attempt at reorienting your perspective to something closer resembling actual reality.

A RTX 2060 can still run every RT game at 1080p with all the bells and whistles turned on.

What? No. Look at TPU's benchmarks, please. Now, their lowest end Nvidia GPU in these charts is the RTX 2080, not the 2060, but "with all the bells and whistles on" at 1080p it sits in the low 30s in CP2077, 51fps in Control, and still sub-60 in Watch Dogs: Legion. Now, those last two are perfectly playable but that's on a 2080, not a 2060, which is significantly less powerful. And, of course, many of the higher performance games seen in those tests have overall lightweight RT effects added on top of a thoroughly developed rasterized core look for the game.

RT is the norn, this is objectivity obviously true.

No, this is objectively false by any reasonable metric. Superficial RT effects are gaining traction, and might be the norm in AAA titles in a year or two, but always built on a solid core of rasterized graphics. Pure RT isn't going to be a relevant thing in the AAA space for a long, long time.

 

[kapone32]

Jedi Fallen Order supports SLI so does Doom Eternal does that mean that SLI is still relevant? How many Games are released for PC a week? How many of them support Ray Tracing? Just because it is romantic now does not mean it will remain so. DLSS has a much greater future in a world of 4K 240HZ displays.

 

[zx128k]

Yes, I know you can play it. That was part of my point: you can play that, and it looks comparable to current good-looking games, even some without RT effects. That workshop demo on the other hand is in an entirely different league of photorealism, detail and general visual quality, and is not real-time whatsoever. I never said that you can't use hardware RT in real-time in UE5, I said that the level of visual quality you're referring to either isn't that impressive or isn't real time, and that full RT, non-rasterized games are still a long, long way out. Heck, we can barely run Quake II and Minecraft levels of exclusive-RT rendering on current hardware at decent resolutions and frame rates. And you're proposing we're soon getting triple-A level fully RT graphics in the near future? That's preposterous. Plain and simple. That statement has zero support in reality.

That was, what, 78 games? That's ... not a lot. At all. Launched since RTX came out in 2019? Don't most game sites these days either run "best 50 games" lists or give each of their editors a pick of their top ten games per year to try and give some overview of noteworthy launches in the landscape of reasonably high profile game launches in a year? (Yes, they do: Polygon.com: best 50. Gamesradar: best 40. Gamespot: best 10+ games in 9 different categories. etc., etc.)

78 games in three years since then, many of which are either bundled remakes (Crysis, Myst,), toys/tech demos (Quake, Minecraft) annualized sequels on the same engine (CoD), or just late-stage updates adding some RT effects (Hellblade, SotTR), or just low profile or poorly received games (Godfall, the dozens of titles on that list that essentially nobody has heard of or played) is in no way an indication of RT being dominant in any way. Steam gets thousands of launches a year - most of which are of course garbage shovelware, but there are easily hundreds of good titles in there each year - and consoles have hundreds of launches a year, with a much higher quality floor than Steam. And, crucially, all but a select few of those games have fully rasterized modes, and are mostly played in those modes (as few people have the required hardware to enable their RT effects).

Telling you RT isn't dominant is not gaslighting, it is an attempt at reorienting your perspective to something closer resembling actual reality.

What? No. Look at TPU's benchmarks, please. Now, their lowest end Nvidia GPU in these charts is the RTX 2080, not the 2060, but "with all the bells and whistles on" at 1080p it sits in the low 30s in CP2077, 51fps in Control, and still sub-60 in Watch Dogs: Legion. Now, those last two are perfectly playable but that's on a 2080, not a 2060, which is significantly less powerful. And, of course, many of the higher performance games seen in those tests have overall lightweight RT effects added on top of a thoroughly developed rasterized core look for the game.

No, this is objectively false by any reasonable metric. Superficial RT effects are gaining traction, and might be the norm in AAA titles in a year or two, but always built on a solid core of rasterized graphics. Pure RT isn't going to be a relevant thing in the AAA space for a long, long time.

I am not dealing with all these garbage arguements until I get banned, when you get frustrated you cant win and the flame war starts. This is my last post on this for a while, I didn't come here to hijack the thread. Its obvious to every man and his dog I am correct. Raster is being replaced, its dead. The market bought nvidia cards at the high end. The market has shifted the future is RT. AMD bet on light RT and raster as the future. They loss, so their gpu are the slower ones. Steam hardware survey shows that the arguement was won by nvidia. Its objectivity true the future is Ray Tracing. UE5 is all about RT and nothing about raster. Indie games can now support RT like AAA. The writing is in big bold letters, neon lights in the night sky. Raster is dead, long live DXR.

 

[kapone32]

I am not dealing with all these garbage arguements until I get banned, when you get frustrated you cant win and the flame war starts. This is my last post on this for a while, I didn't come here to hijack the thread. Its obvious to every man and his dog I am correct. Raster is being replaced, its dead. The market bought nvidia cards at the high end. The market has shifted the future is RT. AMD bet on light RT and raster as the future. They loss, so their gpu are the slower ones. Steam hardware survey shows that the arguement was won by nvidia. Its objectivity true the future is Ray Tracing. UE5 is all about RT and nothing about raster. Indie games can now support RT like AAA. The writing is in big bold letters, neon lights in the night sky. Raster is dead, long live DXR.

Do you even understand what you are saying?

 

[ratirt]

RT is the norn, this is objectivity obviously true. UE5 is the end of raster lighting and the begining of pure RT games even on consoles. Hardware which no support for RT will do it in software Lumen and hardware with RT support will use hardware acceleration. There is no raster in this equation, thus there is only RT.

I am not dealing with all these garbage arguements until I get banned, when you get frustrated you cant win and the flame war starts. This is my last post on this for a while, I didn't come here to hijack the thread. Its obvious to every man and his dog I am correct. Raster is being replaced, its dead. The market bought nvidia cards at the high end. The market has shifted the future is RT. AMD bet on light RT and raster as the future. They loss, so their gpu are the slower ones. Steam hardware survey shows that the arguement was won by nvidia. Its objectivity true the future is Ray Tracing. UE5 is all about RT and nothing about raster. Indie games can now support RT like AAA. The writing is in big bold letters, neon lights in the night sky. Raster is dead, long live DXR.

You have lost it totally.
you are arguing not even knowing, what you are arguing about.
To add, if there's ever a better time to call someone insane. Now is the time. You are insane.

 

[Valantar]

I am not dealing with all these garbage arguements until I get banned, when you get frustrated you cant win and the flame war starts. This is my last post on this for a while, I didn't come here to hijack the thread. Its obvious to every man and his dog I am correct. Raster is being replaced, its dead. The market bought nvidia cards at the high end. The market has shifted the future is RT. AMD bet on light RT and raster as the future. They loss, so their gpu are the slower ones. Steam hardware survey shows that the arguement was won by nvidia. Its objectivity true the future is Ray Tracing. UE5 is all about RT and nothing about raster. Indie games can now support RT like AAA. The writing is in big bold letters, neon lights in the night sky. Raster is dead, long live DXR.

Lol, this is just about the most out-of-touch with reality post I've seen around these forums for quite a while. I guess it's celar who has been gaslighting you: Nvidia's PR department. Do you remember all the UE5 demos that have been shown to demonstrate "RT-like" graphics without RT hardware? Like their most high profile demo ever, used to introduce UE5 to the world? Nobody here is starting any flame war - we're presenting on-topic, impersonal arguments about how and why your assessments about RT are wrong. I mean, you're even contradicting yourself - if raster is being replaced, then it can't be dead. If it was dead, it would already have been replaced.

There are absolutely quite a few games out there with varying degrees of RT. But there are far, far, far more without it - including high profile titles currently in development or recently released. Is there some truth to RT most likely being more widespread in the future? Absolutely! Nobody here is denying that! But you are taking things way too far. Your conclusions are in no way supported by your own data. 78 games launched over three years does not represent a dominant force in an industry producing hundreds of high production quality games a year.

 

[zx128k]

So the flaming begins... the sophistry arguments flow but in the end there will be only RT games. More and more RT games. For those that care Lumen is a 30fps target, with 1080p unscaled to 4k using TSR. TSR is 10 fps slower than DLSS quality. In the matrix awakened demp. The best cpu a 12900k and a 3090 ti can only get between 50-60fps default. All other setups with good cards can get 50fps with Lumen and TSR. AMD or Nvidia top cards. Now NVidia cards can add DLSS at quality, this replaces TSR and adds 10fps extra performance. This makes nvidia cards faster in the matrix awaken demo beating out all AMD cards. Installing DLSS for the demo is very simple and can be done by almost everyone.

The big deal about UE5 is that it brings RT to all gpus. If you are Lumen software path you get reduced rendering quality reductions and limitations but with better hardware you get hardware RT for better quality and performance. Lumen targets consoles and the matrix awaken demo is designed to run at 30fps.

This means that unlike before were games had to add RT to the graphics engine and be in development for years. Developers both big and small can use UE5 RT features. You dont even have to use Lumen, nvidia provides a RTXGI plugin.

Here's the official overview of RTXGI.

NVIDIA RTX Global Illumination is a scalable solution that computes multi-bounce indirect lighting without bake times, light leaks, or expensive per-frame costs. RTXGI is supported on any DXR-enabled GPU and is an ideal starting point to bring the benefits of ray tracing to your existing tools, knowledge, and capabilities.
Features:
No UVs. No Light Baking. No Light Leaks.

• Dramatically speed up iteration time with real-time ray traced lighting. No more obsessing over light probe positioning; no light or shadow leaking

Infinite Bounce Lighting in Real Time

• RTXGI's probe-based data structure temporally accumulates and filters irradiance and distance information in real time, creating a high quality infinite-bounce cache with visibility information

Content Creation at the Speed of Light

• Artists get instant results in-editor or in-game. Move an object or a light and global illumination updates in real time

Available for any DXR Capable GPU

• RTXGI's scalable design gives you the control to decide when and where maximize performance or image quality

RTXGI is already used in several released games, such as Metro Exodus and Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition, Cyberpunk 2077, Control, Minecraft RTX, Quake II RTX, Escape from Naraka, LEGO Builder's Journey, The Persistence, Justice, Moonlight Blade, Fortnite, Xuan-Yuan Sword VII, Enlisted, Five Nights at Freddy's: Security Breach, The Fabled Woods, Dying Light 2, Bright Memory: Infinite, Loopmancer, Faith of Danschant: Hereafter, and Icarus.

Thus the future is RT because the primary reason for a developer to use RT is faster content creation and reduced costs. Now that there is an engine that support RT on every pathform, both with software Lumen and hardware RT support. Games developed on this engine will only support RT and will look near photo-real.

Unreal Engine 5 Games List​

Senua's Saga: Hellblade II
Fortnite it will made the move to Unreal Engine 5 in mid-2022, taking advantage of its new suite of features.
ArcheAge II
Dragon Quest XII: The Flames of Fate
Dreamhouse: The Game
eFootball PES 2022
Gear 5 https://www.gears5.com/the-future-of-gears-5/ UE5 Developer The Coalition has confirmed that "multiple new projects in the coming years" will be developed using Unreal Engine 5.
Echoes of the End
Stalker 2: Heart of Chernobyl
Black Myth: Wukong Black Myth: Wukong already boasted impressive visuals while it was being developed using UE4 but, in 2021, developer Game Science announced that it was shifting to Unreal Engine 5.
Quantum Error Quantum Error is an upcoming horror game with first-person shooter elements whose development has now shifted to Unreal Engine 5.
New Bioshock Game
The upcoming Bioshock game remains a mystery, as no official details about it have been shared until this point. That being said, a series of job listings from developer Cloud Chamber have referenced both it and the Unreal Engine 5, making it very likely that it is being developed using the latest version of Epic Games' engine.
Unannounced Midnight Society Game
Midnight Society is an AAA studio co-founded by Robert Bowling, Herschel ‘Guy’ Beahm (a.k.a Dr. Disrespect), and Quinn DelHoyo that is currently working on an unannounced PVP multiplayer game using Unreal Engine 5.
Ashes of Creation
Ashes of Creation is one of the most ambitious upcoming MMORPGs and yet another game whose development will transition to Unreal Engine 5. Developer Intrepid Studios has already showcased a handful of locations across the game's world, giving players better sense of how the engine's technological improvements will help bring Verra to life.
Mortal Online 2
Mortal Online 2 is a first-person MMORPG that caters to a more hardcore audience, its open world being subjected to full PvP rules that see those who fail to come out on top losing all their hard-earned equipment. With more than 600 skills to master and a player-driven economy, the title will make the jump to Unreal Engine 5 when a stable-enough build becomes available.
Ill
Ill is a first-person horror game from developer Team Clout that channels quite a bit of Resident Evil and is now developed using UE5. Although you can't tell from its 45-second teaser, the concept art shared by the developer so far feature promisingly gory monster designs.
Untitled Layers of Fear Game
Bloober Team is working on an upcoming Layers of Fear game developed using UE5. The studio only shared this teaser video so far, while confirming that the project doesn't have a title just yet.
Grasshopper Manufacture Games
After being acquired by NetEase Games, developer Grasshopper Manufacture currently has plans to release three games over the coming decade. In an interview with Automaton Media, via ResetEra, it has confirmed that it is currently in the pre-production stage, working in UE5.
New The Witcher Game
CD Projekt Red confirmed that the next entry in its The Witcher series will use Unreal Engine 5 when it announced it in March 2022. This was a bit of a surprising move, considering the studio developed its previous games using the proprietary REDEngine technology, but it's ultimately fitting for a game described as "a new saga."
New Firesprite Game
Firesprite is working on at least two new Unreal Engine 5 games. Job listings point at both a narrative-driven horror adventure title and a multiplayer action game as being in development.
New Tomb Raider Game
Developer Crystal Dynamics has confirmed that its next Tomb Raider game is in development and will use Unreal Engine 5 to "deliver the high-quality cinematic action-adventure experience that fans deserve."
Kingdom Hearts 4
Kingdom Hearts 4's debut trailer was made using UE 4 but a report from Famitsu (via VGC) suggests that the game's final version will run on Unreal Engine 5, benefitting from improved lighting and detail quality.
Hell Is Us
A third-person action-adventure from developer Rogue Factor, Hell Is Us blends exploration with combat against mysterious supernatural foes. Players must learn to defeat these enemies using specialized weapons while exploring the semi-open world that stretches across a country ravaged by civil war all by themselves.
Off The Grid
Off The Grid is a third-person shooter from developer Gunzilla Games that aims to infuse the battle royale formula with a hefty dose of narrative progression. Set in a dystopian future, its battles see 150 players facing each other in PvP while also being able to take on storyline-focused PvE missions as the match goes on, controlling how the game's story unfolds.
The Day Before
The Day Before is an open-world third-person shooter that caught the eye of many a gamer when it was initially revealed. Blending zombie-fueled PvE and PvP, the title's devleopment shifted to Unreal Engine 5 in 2022, although it did come at a cost of its release date being delayed until the following year.

Games Built on Undisclosed Version of Unreal Engine likely to be or become UE5.

• ARK II
• Avowed
• Everwild
• Little Devil Inside
• Hogwarts Legacy
• Untitled Frost Giant Studios RTS
• Redfall
• The Callisto Protocol
• Nightingale
• New Mass Effect Game

All UE5 games will support RT in the engine. Lumen in software or hardware. Older UE4 games can be ported to UE5. At this point its ignorant to ignore Ray Tracing. Like being in a tunnel and ignoring the on coming light. The guys attacking this know its true. There goal is drown this thread in a flame war and try to get me banned.

 

[Chrispy_]

Maybe you dont get Lumen software is for hardware like the new consoles and it states this fact in the UE5 documentation. High end PC's as pointed out before will use HW Ray Tracing as they support that feature. That why a 2000 series nvidia gpu and above and an amd 6000 series as about are listed for HW RT. Note Lumen software mode hammers the cpu and will reduce fps massively.



https://docs.unrealengine.com/5.0/en-US/lumen-global-illumination-and-reflections-in-unreal-engine/


You can play the titanic demo. Its basiclly created so you can see the inside of the titanic. In Unreal Engine 5 you can 100% use hardware Ray Tracing in real time. Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition is pathtraced with infinite light bounces.



Then you state its slowly adopting, the list of RT games.

AMID EVIL
Aron's Adventure
Battlefield 2042
Battlefield V
BIOHAZARD VILLAGE Z Version
Bright Memory
Bright Memory: Infinite
Call of Duty: Black Ops Cold War
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare
Chernobylite
Chorus
Control
Crysis Remastered
Crysis 2 Remastered
Crysis 3 Remastered
Cyberpunk 2077
Deathloop
Deliver Us The Moon
DiRT 5
Domino Simulator 2020
DOOM Eternal
Dying Light 2 Stay Human
Enscape
Escape From Naraka
F1 2021
F.I.S.T.: Forged In Shadow Torch
Far Cry 6
Five Nights at Freddy's: Security Breach
Fortnite
Forza Horizon 5
Ghostrunner
Ghostwire: Tokyo
Godfall
Helios
Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice
ICARUS
INDUSTRIA
Justice
JX3 Online RTX Version
LEGO Builder's Journey
Life Is Strange: True Colors
Martha Is Dead
Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy
Mechwarrior 5: Mercenaries
Mercs Fully Loaded
Metro Exodus PC Enhanced Edition
Minecraft with RTX
Moonlight Blade
Mortal Shell
Myst
Myth of Empires
Observer: System Redux
Paradise Killer
Poker Club
Pumpkin Jack
Quake II RTX
RAZE 2070
Redout: Space Assault
Resident Evil Village
Rune II
Severed Steel
Shadow of the Tomb Raider
Soulmate
Stay in the Light
Sword and Fairy 7
The Ascent
The Fabled Woods
The Medium
The Orville Interactive Fan Experience
The Persistence
The Riftbreaker
The Riftbreaker: Prologue
To Hell With It
Watch Dogs: Legion
Wolfenstein: Youngblood
World of Warcraft: Shadowlands
Wrench
Xuan-Yuan Sword VII

You can hve a 50 game review and never touch a raster game. Accept that I have some degree of a point. Gaslighting me wont work.

In many of those games, people can't tell if RTRT is turned on or off in blind testing. DF and LTT both covered this in some detail.

Yes, they're DXR-enabled but when you lock the raster version to 60fps so that the performance difference between RT on/off isn't blindingly obvious, the difference in rendering is tenuous at best, with some people being able to tell that it's different, but not consistently being able to decide which one is better, or which one is raytraced.

SOTR was the single most disappointing implementation of RTRT I've ever played. Apart from hurting performance, RT shadows was a pretty unnecessary addition to a game that already had fantastic dynamic shadowmapping. In Doom Eternal was nice to see Doomguy's reflection in a few panes of glass but honestly that only happens half a dozen times over the course of a 20-hour playthrough, and the second time you see yourself the novelty of looking at your reflection has already worn off. If Doom was a slow sightseeing game it might be more important but most of the RT stuff added is subtle and to do with projectiles and explosions, something Doom does with breakneck speed where you don't have time to stop and admire the graphics.

Unreal Engine 5 Games List​

<I've snipped out the page of 50-ish games you've painstakingly listed>

All UE5 games will support RT in the engine. Lumen in software or hardware. Older UE4 games can be ported to UE5. At this point its ignorant to ignore Ray Tracing. Like being in a tunnel and ignoring the on coming light. The guys attacking this know its true. There goal is drown this thread in a flame war and try to get me banned.

So yes, UE5 games with much more RT support are coming. But of that enormous list, many of them don't even have working titles yet and we're looking at some point in 2023 for most games as the most optimistic ETA, assuming no issues or delays.

I would expect fortnight to be the first full transition to UE5 that yields meaningful visual upgrades. That's EPIC themselves using their own engine, and even that won't be a thing before the next gen launches.

 

[zx128k]

Exclusive: Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition Analysis - The First Triple-A Game Built Around Ray Tracing​

Note from above, RTXGI is already used in several released games, such as Metro Exodus and Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition, Cyberpunk 2077, Control, Minecraft RTX, Quake II RTX, Escape from Naraka, LEGO Builder's Journey, The Persistence, Justice, Moonlight Blade, Fortnite, Xuan-Yuan Sword VII, Enlisted, Five Nights at Freddy's: Security Breach, The Fabled Woods, Dying Light 2, Bright Memory: Infinite, Loopmancer, Faith of Danschant: Hereafter, and Icarus.

Notice how quickly you can see the difference between the original Metro Exodus and the full pathtraced Enchanced Edition with RTXGI. Here is UE5 motorbike demo, can you see the difference? This is just Lumen. Unreal Engine 5 Real-Time Nanite\Lumen K-750 Soviet Moto Demo

PR talking points exist but a 6900xt can beat a 3070 ti in a RTXGI game. See also Port Royal. So RT is now not a big deal, you cant see it anyway. Just dont look up. Meanwhile some of us would like RT treated with the real importance it demands. Not side lined but treated as normal in benchmarks.

 

[Chrispy_]

Exclusive: Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition Analysis - The First Triple-A Game Built Around Ray Tracing​

Still looks like a PS4/XB1 game; Where are the shadows on all of the vegetation, why is the lighting so flat? This is just one screencap from that video you've posted three times, and I could pick many other scenes and make similar criticisms.

You do realise that ME:EE has good lighting but apart from making the developer's job easier it hasn't really translated into a game that stands out as being photorealistic like all those tech demos you're talking about. There's more to photorealism that RTGI and one of the biggest problems with ME:EE's RTGI is that it's rendered at 4 frames per second and cached over several frames so it's blurry and laggy AF. If you've actually played ME:EE you'll know that it's really quite distracting and completely undermines the whole effect when using a torch in the dark.

For static lighting it's fine, but so is pre-baked lighting.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed ME:EE and it's occasionally a jaw-droppingly good-looking game, but the RT stuff isn't the reason for that.

 

[Valantar]

So the flaming begins... the sophistry arguments flow but in the end there will be only RT games.

Yes, I can indeed see the flaming begin - it would be quite nice if you could try to keep this a reasonable discussion instead of resorting to that kind of nonsense. Let's see:

Sophistry is reasoning that seems plausible on a superficial level but is actually unsound, or reasoning that is used to deceive.

That is just about as far from the reality of your opponents in this discussion as it is possible to come. None of us are applying any type of deceptive reasoning; none of us are trying to decieve anyone. So, please refrain from stupid personal attacks and accusations like this in the future - that way we can avoid that flame war that you're simultaneously afraid of and seemingly intent on starting. If someone disagreeing strongly with your arguments makes you think they are trying to be deceptive, I would suggest applying some basic logic - perhaps Occam's razor? - to that though. How likely is it that some random person on a tech forum is out to deceive you about the future of graphics?

More and more RT games.

Nobody has denied that, but that isn't what you're arguing. You're arguing that

Raster is [...] dead.

RT is the norn [sic], this is objectivity obviously true.

RT is the norm for games, right now. no one cares if you like it or not.

RT is replacing raster, the whole market sees it driving hardware sales and sales of new games for the future.

This is part of the problem: you are simultaneously arguing that it is (currently) the norm, but also that it is (in the process of) taking over. Those two views are fundamentally incompatible - at least as long as you agree that humans only experience time in a linear, one-way fashion. If something is, then it cannot simultaneously be becoming. Those are ontologically different states of being.

Thus, as this is your most often repeated view, all of us are responding to the claim that RT is currently the norm and has replaced rasterized graphics. This, as we have shown, and as your examples have entirely failed to counter, is absolute nonsense.

We have also demonstrated quite conclusively that RT is not the norm currently, and have presented compelling arguments as to why it's likely that any transition will take a long time. You have in response repeatedly claimed that it is the norm, in spite of evidence to the contrary, and have provided data that in and of itself shows that RT is currently quite limited in its adoption.

For those that care Lumen is a 30fps target, with 1080p unscaled to 4k using TSR. TSR is 10 fps slower than DLSS quality. In the matrix awakened demp. The best cpu a 12900k and a 3090 ti can only get between 50-60fps default. All other setups with good cards can get 50fps with Lumen and TSR. AMD or Nvidia top cards. Now NVidia cards can add DLSS at quality, this replaces TSR and adds 10fps extra performance. This makes nvidia cards faster in the matrix awaken demo beating out all AMD cards. Installing DLSS for the demo is very simple and can be done by almost everyone.

The big deal about UE5 is that it brings RT to all gpus. If you are Lumen software path you get reduced rendering quality reductions and limitations but with better hardware you get hardware RT for better quality and performance. Lumen targets consoles and the matrix awaken demo is designed to run at 30fps.

This means that unlike before were games had to add RT to the graphics engine and be in development for years. Developers both big and small can use UE5 RT features. You dont even have to use Lumen, nvidia provides a RTXGI plugin.

Here's the official overview of RTXGI.


RTXGI is already used in several released games, such as Metro Exodus and Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition, Cyberpunk 2077, Control, Minecraft RTX, Quake II RTX, Escape from Naraka, LEGO Builder's Journey, The Persistence, Justice, Moonlight Blade, Fortnite, Xuan-Yuan Sword VII, Enlisted, Five Nights at Freddy's: Security Breach, The Fabled Woods, Dying Light 2, Bright Memory: Infinite, Loopmancer, Faith of Danschant: Hereafter, and Icarus.

Thus the future is RT because the primary reason for a developer to use RT is faster content creation and reduced costs. Now that there is an engine that support RT on every pathform, both with software Lumen and hardware RT support. Games developed on this engine will only support RT and will look near photo-real.

Unreal Engine 5 Games List​

Senua's Saga: Hellblade II
Fortnite it will made the move to Unreal Engine 5 in mid-2022, taking advantage of its new suite of features.
ArcheAge II
Dragon Quest XII: The Flames of Fate
Dreamhouse: The Game
eFootball PES 2022
Gear 5 https://www.gears5.com/the-future-of-gears-5/ UE5 Developer The Coalition has confirmed that "multiple new projects in the coming years" will be developed using Unreal Engine 5.
Echoes of the End
Stalker 2: Heart of Chernobyl
Black Myth: Wukong Black Myth: Wukong already boasted impressive visuals while it was being developed using UE4 but, in 2021, developer Game Science announced that it was shifting to Unreal Engine 5.
Quantum Error Quantum Error is an upcoming horror game with first-person shooter elements whose development has now shifted to Unreal Engine 5.
New Bioshock Game
The upcoming Bioshock game remains a mystery, as no official details about it have been shared until this point. That being said, a series of job listings from developer Cloud Chamber have referenced both it and the Unreal Engine 5, making it very likely that it is being developed using the latest version of Epic Games' engine.
Unannounced Midnight Society Game
Midnight Society is an AAA studio co-founded by Robert Bowling, Herschel ‘Guy’ Beahm (a.k.a Dr. Disrespect), and Quinn DelHoyo that is currently working on an unannounced PVP multiplayer game using Unreal Engine 5.
Ashes of Creation
Ashes of Creation is one of the most ambitious upcoming MMORPGs and yet another game whose development will transition to Unreal Engine 5. Developer Intrepid Studios has already showcased a handful of locations across the game's world, giving players better sense of how the engine's technological improvements will help bring Verra to life.
Mortal Online 2
Mortal Online 2 is a first-person MMORPG that caters to a more hardcore audience, its open world being subjected to full PvP rules that see those who fail to come out on top losing all their hard-earned equipment. With more than 600 skills to master and a player-driven economy, the title will make the jump to Unreal Engine 5 when a stable-enough build becomes available.
Ill
Ill is a first-person horror game from developer Team Clout that channels quite a bit of Resident Evil and is now developed using UE5. Although you can't tell from its 45-second teaser, the concept art shared by the developer so far feature promisingly gory monster designs.
Untitled Layers of Fear Game
Bloober Team is working on an upcoming Layers of Fear game developed using UE5. The studio only shared this teaser video so far, while confirming that the project doesn't have a title just yet.
Grasshopper Manufacture Games
After being acquired by NetEase Games, developer Grasshopper Manufacture currently has plans to release three games over the coming decade. In an interview with Automaton Media, via ResetEra, it has confirmed that it is currently in the pre-production stage, working in UE5.
New The Witcher Game
CD Projekt Red confirmed that the next entry in its The Witcher series will use Unreal Engine 5 when it announced it in March 2022. This was a bit of a surprising move, considering the studio developed its previous games using the proprietary REDEngine technology, but it's ultimately fitting for a game described as "a new saga."
New Firesprite Game
Firesprite is working on at least two new Unreal Engine 5 games. Job listings point at both a narrative-driven horror adventure title and a multiplayer action game as being in development.
New Tomb Raider Game
Developer Crystal Dynamics has confirmed that its next Tomb Raider game is in development and will use Unreal Engine 5 to "deliver the high-quality cinematic action-adventure experience that fans deserve."
Kingdom Hearts 4
Kingdom Hearts 4's debut trailer was made using UE 4 but a report from Famitsu (via VGC) suggests that the game's final version will run on Unreal Engine 5, benefitting from improved lighting and detail quality.
Hell Is Us
A third-person action-adventure from developer Rogue Factor, Hell Is Us blends exploration with combat against mysterious supernatural foes. Players must learn to defeat these enemies using specialized weapons while exploring the semi-open world that stretches across a country ravaged by civil war all by themselves.
Off The Grid
Off The Grid is a third-person shooter from developer Gunzilla Games that aims to infuse the battle royale formula with a hefty dose of narrative progression. Set in a dystopian future, its battles see 150 players facing each other in PvP while also being able to take on storyline-focused PvE missions as the match goes on, controlling how the game's story unfolds.
The Day Before
The Day Before is an open-world third-person shooter that caught the eye of many a gamer when it was initially revealed. Blending zombie-fueled PvE and PvP, the title's devleopment shifted to Unreal Engine 5 in 2022, although it did come at a cost of its release date being delayed until the following year.

Games Built on Undisclosed Version of Unreal Engine likely to be or become UE5.

• ARK II
• Avowed
• Everwild
• Little Devil Inside
• Hogwarts Legacy
• Untitled Frost Giant Studios RTS
• Redfall
• The Callisto Protocol
• Nightingale
• New Mass Effect Game

All UE5 games will support RT in the engine. Lumen in software or hardware. Older UE4 games can be ported to UE5. At this point its ignorant to ignore Ray Tracing. Like being in a tunnel and ignoring the on coming light. The guys attacking this know its true. There goal is drown this thread in a flame war and try to get me banned.

But here's the thing you're completely failing to acknowledge: industry adoption of new engines takes a lot of time. Developers need to learn to use new tools. Bugs need fixing. And game development cycles often run several years - and generally, you don't start developing a new game for an engine your team isn't already familiar with - unless you're willing to extend development with the time required to learn while working, which then naturally makes for longer development cycles. As was mentioned above, it's highly unlikely for the games above to launch within the next year, and many will likely take much longer than that. Listing projects that literally don't even have a working title just demonstrates this.

There are possible exceptions to this:
- games developed in UE4 can likely in certain scenarios be ported over to UE5 relatevely quickly, as long as UE4 development is nearing completion. This will still take quite a lot of time, as it will require an audit of every single line of code, every asset, every animation - but less time than starting from scratch. Still, there is a lot of testing, QC and bug fixing involved in such a process, and it will at the very least take several months (assuming UE4 development is essentially complete and there are very good transition tools with few bugs). One major note to this: the initial port is extremely unlikely to adopt UE5-exclusive features (such as its built-in RT support), as that won't exist in the game's codebase. It is quite likely that many games developed this way will add these features after the fact, but that requires more work, more testing to get it implemented.
- some games have been developed in preview versions of UE5, and assuming those versions haven't been absolutely bug-riddled messes, they can thus be expected to arrive sooner than games starting off after the official launch of UE5.

Here is UE5 motorbike demo, can you see the difference? This is just Lumen. Unreal Engine 5 Real-Time Nanite\Lumen K-750 Soviet Moto Demo


PR talking points exist but a 6900xt can beat a 3070 ti in a RTXGI game. See also Port Royal. So RT is now not a big deal, you cant see it anyway. Just dont look up. Meanwhile some of us would like RT treated with the real importance it demands. Not side lined but treated as normal in benchmarks.

That's a nice looking demo, but it is clearly running at very low resolution, and it purposely has a very limited field of view, with background rocks filling up the scene background and making the render load much, much lighter than any game I can think of. If you know of a game where you never see more than ~5 meters in front of you, I'd love to hear about that.

Oh, on an unrelated note, what on earth is up with all the noise and compression artifacts in that video? I was trying to look past them and look at the overall scene, but the video itself looks like a mediocre 480p upscale.

 

[Chrispy_]

Oh, on an unrelated note, what on earth is up with all the noise and compression artifacts in that video? I was trying to look past them and look at the overall scene, but the video itself looks like a mediocre 480p upscale.

The noise is really there and they're not compression artifacts, that's how UE5 raytracing works in realtime. You'll see the noise on new geometry just coming out of occlusion because there are nowhere near enough rays traced to give a clean image with the limitations of current hardware and the denoiser is a cumulative temporal filter that doesn't really achieve very much without at least half a dozen previous frames of data. Anything new in a frame that wasn't previously raytraced will look like ass for quarter of a second or so.

It's yet another example proving that no matter how clever the tricks used are, we're still a long way from true raytracing because to avoid requiring this temporal noise filter in these (limited) scenes at this modest framerate, you'd need an order of magnitude more compute performance.

 

[zx128k]

I just feel the review should just use maximum settings with no reguard if this means DXR is enabled. Cards like the 6900xt and 6950xt are ment for top performance under maximum settings. There should not be a Ray Tracing section or raster section. Let all cards complete in a large sample sizes so the games cant be cherry picked with all the features turn on. Let the results play out and write the concludion.

When I play Metro Exodus, I play enhanced edition and with other RT games. I turn on RT, I didnt buy an expensive gpu and system. To run raster on in RT games. If I turn RT off I dont need the expensive gpu or over 8GB of vRAM. If the only goal is raster performance a more budget card would be my target. The only reason to get a 6950xt over the cheaper cards is RT. Thats why people buy the 3080/3080 ti/3090 or even the 3090ti. Raster performance is already good enough with the more lower end gpu's. A card that gets 253fps and another that gets 251fps is meaningless when the average monitor is 60Hz.

Current gpus are about maximum settings and not about ignoring maximums settings. Making different sections and focus on one section raster for judgements of performance. This is biased, ignores that DXR games were design to run with Ray Tracing enabled. That the feature is there for high end gpus. That most people play Ray Tracing games for the Ray Tracing. They got their 3080 or above to do that. Raster performance is so number one the 6000 series has little market share in Steam hardware survey gpu. Not so long ago, there was a news article that stated. There are more 3090's than all of the AMD 6000series.

Nvidia's RTX 3090 Has Apparently Sold More Units Than AMD's Entire RX 6000 Series Lineup. source

Steam Hardware Survey DirectX 12 Market Share

	MAR	APR	MAY	JUN	JUL
Nvidia GeForce RTX 3070	1.29%	1.38%	1.48%	1.50%	1.56%
Nvidia GeForce RTX 3080	0.85%	0.85%	0.89%	0.83%	0.88%
Nvidia GeForce RTX 3060	0.05%	0.17%	0.27%	0.52%	0.64%
Nvidia GeForce RTX 3060 Ti	0.38%	0.39%	0.40%	0.36%	0.42%
Nvidia GeForce RTX 3090	0.33%	0.37%	0.38%	0.35%	0.38%
AMD Radeon RX 6700 XT	-	-	-	0.09%	0.12%
AMD Radeon RX 6800 XT	0.06%	0.07%	0.08%	0.09%	0.10%
AMD Radeon RX 6900 XT	0.04%	0.06%	0.07%	0.07%	0.08%
AMD Radeon RX 6800	0.05%	0.05%	0.05%	0.04%	0.05%
Nvidia Share	2.90%	3.16%	3.42%	3.56%	3.88%
AMD Share	0.15%	0.18%	0.20%	0.29%	0.35%
Nvidia to AMD Ratio	19.33 to 1	17.56 to 1	17.1 to 1	12.28 to 1	11.09 to 1

Updated here, The only thing worse than the talking points against RT, is amd's market share.

I am tried of seening the games I play benchmarked ignoring Ray Tracing. Then at the end seeing RT ignored in the performance conclusion or treated as different. The whole market voted for RT by buying 30 series nvidia cards. Players love RT and value RT performance. The market has voted, RT is objectivity accepted. There is going to be a flood of RT games soon. There is already too many to ignore the feature. Raster is dead, long live ray tracing. Time benchmarks and reviews acknowledged the truth. I dont care which manufacture wins the review, so long as its maximum settings including RTing.

 

[kapone32]

I just feel the review should just use maximum settings with no reguard if this means DXR is enabled. Cards like the 6900xt and 6950xt are ment for top performance under maximum settings. There should not be a Ray Tracing section or raster section. Let all cards complete in a large sample sizes so the games cant be cherry picked with all the features turn on. Let the results play out and write the concludion.

When I play Metro Exodus, I play enhanced edition and with other RT games. I turn on RT, I didnt buy an expensive gpu and system. To run raster on in RT games. If I turn RT off I dont need the expensive gpu or over 8GB of vRAM. If the only goal is raster performance a more budget card would be my target. The only reason to get a 6950xt over the cheaper cards is RT. Thats why people buy the 3080/3080 ti/3090 or even the 3090ti. Raster performance is already good enough with the more lower end gpu's. A card that gets 253fps and another that gets 251fps is meaningless when the average monitor is 60Hz.

Current gpus are about maximum settings and not about ignoring maximums settings. Making different sections and focus on one section raster for judgements of performance. This is biased, ignores that DXR games were design to run with Ray Tracing enabled. That the feature is there for high end gpus. That most people play Ray Tracing games for the Ray Tracing. They got their 3080 or above to do that. Raster performance is so number one the 6000 series has little market share in Steam hardware survey gpu. Not so long ago, there was a news article that stated. There are more 3090's than all of the AMD 6000series.




Updated here, The only thing worse than the talking points against RT, is amd's market share.

I am tried of seening the games I play benchmarked ignoring Ray Tracing. Then at the end seeing RT ignored in the performance conclusion or treated as different. The whole market voted for RT by buying 30 series nvidia cards. Players love RT and value RT performance. The market has voted, RT is objectivity accepted. There is going to be a flood of RT games soon. There is already too many to ignore the feature. Raster is dead, long live ray tracing. Time benchmarks and reviews acknowledged the truth. I dont care which manufacture wins the review, so long as its maximum settings including RTing.

I commend your resolve. The best looking Game I have seen recently was Spiderman on my Nephew's PS4? The Market bought 30 series cards when you couldn't buy one in 2021? Players love FPS and smooth Gameplay. Let's test your theory right now.

Hi TPU, how many of you care more about DLSS vs Ray Tracing?

Ray tracing is nice...if I am admiring my environment, while trying not to get killed in Metro 2033 or any of the Action Games you listed. Do you really give 2 hoots about Ray Tracing when you are enjoying the heck out of Outridders, Horizon Zero Dawn. If I am playing Myst I guess I could get on with your sentiment.

 

[zx128k]

I commend your resolve. The best looking Game I have seen recently was Spiderman on my Nephew's PS4? The Market bought 30 series cards when you couldn't buy one in 2021? Players love FPS and smooth Gameplay. Let's test your theory right now.

Hi TPU, how many of you care more about DLSS vs Ray Tracing?

Ray tracing is nice...if I am admiring my environment, while trying not to get killed in Metro 2033 or any of the Action Games you listed. Do you really give 2 hoots about Ray Tracing when you are enjoying the heck out of Outridders, Horizon Zero Dawn. If I am playing Myst I guess I could get on with your sentiment.

What polls have you done for example to support gamers that buy ray tracing games are not interested in ray tracing? Given that gamers are buying the best Ray Tracing hardware and not buying say a 6000 series card with a more focus on raster? Why would steam hardware survey show a massive lead for nvidia in market share for RTX hardware? Why are more raster performance based cards doing so poorly?

metro exodus enhanced edition sold 6 million units for example. How did gamers turn off RT in this game? This game is called a real Masterpiece for its graphics. Why would that be the case?

 

[kapone32]

What polls have you done for example to support gamers that buy ray tracing games are not interested in ray tracing? Given that gamers are buying the best Ray Tracing hardware and not buying say a 6000 series card with a more focus on raster? Why would steam hardware survey show a massive lead for nvidia in market share for RTX hardware? Why are more raster performance based cards doing so poorly?

metro exodus enhanced edition sold 6 million units for example. How did gamers turn off RT in this game? This game is called a real Masterpiece for its graphics. Why would that be the case?

Your blind devotion to a technology that is an add on without knowing the history. Physx was really cool too. Gsync is a cool technology and RT is cool too but both of them are behind pay walls. 17 Million copies of TW3K sold and 17 million Steam Users were added when it launched? What evidence do you have that other than the 6900XT AMD cards are not selling? Let's look at it from a different angle.

Will it be easier to buy a 5800X3D vs a 3070TI+ series card. Which will sell more? Using the parameters you have established that it is RT or faster fps.

 

[Chrispy_]

I think we can paraphrase the last couple of pages quite easily here:

• zx128k is angry that TPU (and other sites) don't focus on RT performance.
• Most DXR games (which still make up a minority of the games market) are hybrid RT that make limited use of raytracing and also offer baked/faked raster rendering too.
• Full DXR games are coming in the future, but outside of simple tech demos, all bar one of them are not released yet, most of them are multiple years away and some of those lack even a proper name.
• zx128k is strawmanning and goalpost-moving hard to make it seem like full DXR is "the norm" when the above point covers the fact that only a single one of these games that are "the norm" is even available yet.

The top 10 websites reviewing GPUs treat DXR as an afterthought and still test raster performance by default.
The top 5 tech Youtube channels covering GPUs treat DXR as an afterthought and still test raster performance by default.

There won't be a binary switchover where everyone reviewing GPUs and making games suddenly goes all-in with DXR on a specific date. The amount of media coverage and review focus of DXR hardware will gradually increase to match the percentage of new/popular games that are DXR-first, or DXR-exclusive.

Perhaps by the time Nvidia's 5000-series and AMD's 8000-series cards are out on the market in 2024, the majority of gamers that game-developers are trying to sell their product to will have DXR-capable hardware; We should totally re-visit this thread in 2024 and see if I'm right or wrong!

 

[Valantar]

The noise is really there and they're not compression artifacts, that's how UE5 raytracing works in realtime. You'll see the noise on new geometry just coming out of occlusion because there are nowhere near enough rays traced to give a clean image with the limitations of current hardware and the denoiser is a cumulative temporal filter that doesn't really achieve very much without at least half a dozen previous frames of data. Anything new in a frame that wasn't previously raytraced will look like ass for quarter of a second or so.

It's yet another example proving that no matter how clever the tricks used are, we're still a long way from true raytracing because to avoid requiring this temporal noise filter in these (limited) scenes at this modest framerate, you'd need an order of magnitude more compute performance.

That fits the bill, yeah. I particularly noticed it around the headlight as well as around the spokes and rims, and especially the latter aligns exactly with what you're saying. It would seem that the headlight being its own light source also messes with this somehow? Anyway, that's pretty damning in terms of being an example of the quality possible for full RT. Tiny FOV, tiny scene, no depth, few detailed elements in sight, and still it looks noisy as all hell. Raster graphics with some RT tricks on top seems like a much better idea than that, if that is the end result.

I just feel the review should just use maximum settings with no reguard if this means DXR is enabled. Cards like the 6900xt and 6950xt are ment for top performance under maximum settings. There should not be a Ray Tracing section or raster section. Let all cards complete in a large sample sizes so the games cant be cherry picked with all the features turn on. Let the results play out and write the concludion.

When I play Metro Exodus, I play enhanced edition and with other RT games. I turn on RT, I didnt buy an expensive gpu and system. To run raster on in RT games. If I turn RT off I dont need the expensive gpu or over 8GB of vRAM. If the only goal is raster performance a more budget card would be my target. The only reason to get a 6950xt over the cheaper cards is RT. Thats why people buy the 3080/3080 ti/3090 or even the 3090ti. Raster performance is already good enough with the more lower end gpu's. A card that gets 253fps and another that gets 251fps is meaningless when the average monitor is 60Hz.

Current gpus are about maximum settings and not about ignoring maximums settings. Making different sections and focus on one section raster for judgements of performance. This is biased, ignores that DXR games were design to run with Ray Tracing enabled. That the feature is there for high end gpus. That most people play Ray Tracing games for the Ray Tracing. They got their 3080 or above to do that. Raster performance is so number one the 6000 series has little market share in Steam hardware survey gpu. Not so long ago, there was a news article that stated. There are more 3090's than all of the AMD 6000series.




Updated here, The only thing worse than the talking points against RT, is amd's market share.

I am tried of seening the games I play benchmarked ignoring Ray Tracing. Then at the end seeing RT ignored in the performance conclusion or treated as different. The whole market voted for RT by buying 30 series nvidia cards. Players love RT and value RT performance. The market has voted, RT is objectivity accepted. There is going to be a flood of RT games soon. There is already too many to ignore the feature. Raster is dead, long live ray tracing. Time benchmarks and reviews acknowledged the truth. I dont care which manufacture wins the review, so long as its maximum settings including RTing.

I also use RT when feasible, but ... not all GPUs support RT. Not all games support RT. For the purpose of a review, it is very useful to distinguish between RT performance and non-RT performance, as the point of a benchmark suite is for it to be representative of general performance. Given that RT performance and raster performance are often very different, mixing the two would pollute the sample so to speak, and ruin the generalizability of results. Keeping them separate lets us make informed decisions and inferences about future performance in both non-RT and RT titles respectively; mixing the two wouldn't let us do either. A test suite that separates the two provides readers with more and better tools towards making informed decisions. I can agree that an aggregate RT performance graph (similar to the raster performance summary) would be useful, but given the lower number of games it's understandable that they haven't made one.

It's also quite interesting that you've all of a sudden abandoned all claims as to RT being the dominant standard for graphics. What gives? Did we actually convince you?

On a side note: playing on maximum settings is, generally, pretty dumb. There are typically few perceptible quality differences between High and Ultra (or equivalent levels), while Ultra typically has much worse performance, consumes far more energy for the same frame rate, or some combination of both. Lowering settings a notch makes for smoother framerates, less heat and noise from your PC, and typically a better play experience as the visual quality differences are rarely actually perceptible in real life. Whether or not you choose to play at max settings is obviously your own choice, but it's a good idea to rid yourself of the thought that this is somehow sensible or rational. Any perceived quality improvement is typically just placebo.

As for market shares, I don't really see their relevance here. All the GPUs you're mentioning support a passable level of RT after all, even if Nvidia is notably stronger in this regard. The relative market share of non-RT vs. RT-enabled GPUs would be far more relevant. Nvidia's general marketshare dominance in GPUs isn't surprising to anyone.

 

[zx128k]

Your blind devotion to a technology that is an add on without knowing the history. Physx was really cool too. Gsync is a cool technology and RT is cool too but both of them are behind pay walls. 17 Million copies of TW3K sold and 17 million Steam Users were added when it launched? What evidence do you have that other than the 6900XT AMD cards are not selling? Let's look at it from a different angle.

Will it be easier to buy a 5800X3D vs a 3070TI+ series card. Which will sell more? Using the parameters you have established that it is RT or faster fps.

What evidence do you have that other than the 6900XT AMD cards are not selling?

Key Points

Nvidia exited 2021 with more than 80% of the discrete graphics-card market under its control.

It could tighten its grip over this market in 2022 thanks to new products and its efforts to strengthen the supply chain.

The company's strong share of the graphics card market could lead to huge incremental revenue growth in the long run.

Main selling point of the RTX 3000 series was ray tracing and DLSS.

When you point is the truth, evidence is only one google search away. Next playing on maximum settings is dumb, we now wont do that after millions of year of doing just that because it could likely affect one manufactures proformance position in benchmarks. These are not smart arguments. Lets see if I get the next argument. This is a holding action which you only do if you have lost the main point. You move onto the point is not really valid.

Peddie Research estimates that Nvidia finished 2021 with 81% of the discrete GPU market under its control. Rival AMD controlled the rest. It is worth noting that Nvidia maintained its tight grip over the discrete graphics card market throughout 2021 and didn't give AMD much room for growth.


Nvidia was sitting on an 82% share of the market at the end of the fourth quarter of 2020.

 

[Valantar]

Full DXR games are coming in the future, but outside of simple tech demos, all bar one of them are not released yet, most of them are multiple years away and some of those lack even a proper name.

Hey! You are WRONG! There are TWO full RTX games already launched! Minecraft RT and Quake II RTX, the most important gaming titles ever! This changes EVERYTHING! RT DOMINATES THE GAMING INDUSTRY!

(/s, in case it wasn't obvious)

Key Points


When you point is the truth, evidence is only one google search away. Next playing on maximum settings is dumb, we now wont do that after millions of year of doing just that because it could likely affect one manufactures proformance position in benchmarks. These are not smart arguments. Lets see if I get the next argument. This is a holding action which you only do if you have lost the main point. You move onto the point is not really valid.

The funny thing is, that article, despite having the title "1 Massive Reason Nvidia's Tearing Growth Will Continue" doesn't actually argue for this beyond "Nvidia has lots of cash". And while having the cash to buy components and wafers is obviously crucial, it alone cannot be said to be enough to hold on to marketshare. If RX 7000 cards outperform RTX 4000 cards, and supply and prices are good, it is entirely possible for AMD to gain marketshare on Nvidia, and that article doesn't provide a single compelling argument against this. I wasn't expecting more from an investment advice site, but man, that is some thin reasoning right there.