CyberLink Launches PowerDVD 22, Putting User Experience at the Core of Blu-Ray, DVD, 4K HDR, and YouTube Playback

[lexluthermiester]

From what I understand, SGX existed purely to provide a "safe" place for DRM to run; something that doesn't sit right with me at all.

I'm glad it's been deprecated.

Agreed. Of course everyone knows I am against any DRM at all so my agreeance should not be a surprise..

 

[Mussels]

*Laughs in a peg leg and an eye patch*

*Also laughs in 4K streaming services*

I for one use DVD for hard backup on ceramic disks, and only for the most valuable personal things. Work related stuff is tape (still). So, what DVD?


Uhm, the same MPC-HC not in development since 2017?

MPC-HC has forked developments with regular updates, as well as the simple fact that all its codecs are external so they can be updated without updating the player.

I use MPC-HC with MadVR and SVP4 (raises the FPS) on my main system, but stick with VLC on anything else out of laziness


It frustrates me greatly how a 10 year old LG bluray player can get smooth playback, yet it's impossible to get the same quality from a PC connected to the same TV. You can almost get close by ripping the disc and using various hacks and workarounds - they downright limited the tech to only work in specific environments and its a PITA

(LG bluray upscales to 48 FPS on 60Hz stutter free, yet PC cant do that. not allowed, gotta fork out for deprecated optical disc players!)

 

[zlobby]

It frustrates me greatly how a 10 year old LG bluray player can get smooth playback, yet it's impossible to get the same quality from a PC connected to the same TV. You can almost get close by ripping the disc and using various hacks and workarounds - they downright limited the tech to only work in specific environments and its a PITA

(LG bluray upscales to 48 FPS on 60Hz stutter free, yet PC cant do that. not allowed, gotta fork out for deprecated optical disc players!)

Odd. I never had such problems with DVD playback on a PC.

You're gonna make me go buy a DVD player just for the test.

 

[chrcoluk]

You need SGX to play 4k UHD. Intel deprecated SGX and they're not available on current-gen processors. They did so due to numerous security flaws with the instruction set.

A 5-second Googling turns up this nice summary.

Now please explain how any of what I've said is "deeply flawed".

I still wonder if DRM actually loses sales rather than gains them, it places in place so many hurdles.

Even relatively simple form of media delivery in the form of Netflix I have had DRM problems with,

Something on my Edge install on this PC prevents Amazon video live events from working and for a period of a month or so a while back prevented Netflix and Amazon Video from working at all. I noticed I cannot even take a screenshot of Netflix which is an absolutely ridiculous amount of control taken by DRM. I use firefox now for web media, thankfully no issues and it performs better.

In terms of Media Players MPC-HC is my favourite, although I do also have MPC-BE and VLC.

VLC is a bit sluggish and I get weird issues with some media I have never been able to resolve, I have tried resetting to defaults of course to rule out me misconfiguring it. I have it installed still though as every so often I come across a rare format that only VLC can play.

MPC-BE I used to watch a 3d movie which MPC-HC couldnt handle, however it has a couple of issues that MPC-HC doesnt have plus its a bit slower so I use MPC-HC day to day.

 

[efikkan]

And it still only lets me watch 4k UHD on a last-gen Intel processor with serious security concerns? Pass.

Have they still not found a "workaround" for the lack of SGX?
I have read that playback has not been working on Alder Lake, but I'm surprised if they haven't worked out a legal solution to this artificial limit. As time goes by, pretty much all CPUs will be incompatible, so their product will become a hard sell.

It frustrates me greatly how a 10 year old LG bluray player can get smooth playback, yet it's impossible to get the same quality from a PC connected to the same TV. You can almost get close by ripping the disc and using various hacks and workarounds - they downright limited the tech to only work in specific environments and its a PITA

It's thanks to hardware acceleration. ASICs are fantastically efficient, but lacks the ability to accelerate future formats.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I still wonder if DRM actually loses sales rather than gains them, it places in place so many hurdles.

I avoid DRM whenever possible, and I'm far from alone. So very likely yes, DRM looses them sales.

 

[PCL]

Have they still not found a "workaround" for the lack of SGX?
I have read that playback has not been working on Alder Lake, but I'm surprised if they haven't worked out a legal solution to this artificial limit. As time goes by, pretty much all CPUs will be incompatible, so their product will become a hard sell.

Especially considering that most manufacturers have stopped developing, or some have stopped production of blu-ray players all together. Sadly, I think there's a shrinking market for physical media, no matter how superior the quality of the viewing experience.

I avoid DRM whenever possible, and I'm far from alone. So very likely yes, DRM looses them sales.

On this, we 100% agree. If I could just throw a movie in my computer's blu-ray drive and go, I'd be buying at least a movie a month. Instead it's 1, maybe 2, a year and that's only for really visually striking movies like Blade Runner 2049 or Dune.

 

[lexluthermiester]

On this, we 100% agree. If I could just throw a movie in my computer's blu-ray drive and go, I'd be buying at least a movie a month.

Hey we agree! To be fair, I don't bother with it. I buy movies and "convert" them for viewing on my PC later. I really couldn't care less about what the "powers the be" think of the legality of such.

 

[efikkan]

Especially considering that most manufacturers have stopped developing, or some have stopped production of blu-ray players all together. Sadly, I think there's a shrinking market for physical media, no matter how superior the quality of the viewing experience.

The fact that the market has shrunk compared to the VHS and DVD days is very understandable and to be expected, as most viewers don't care about quality or specific content for that matter, and I have no problem with that as long as "enthusiasts" have a good alternative.
Whether that option is physical media or downloadable files is less important to most enthusiasts (I actually would prefer just to download high quality files), it's about owning a good quality copy to view whenever I want.
The visual quality of services like Netflix, HBO, Amazon Prime etc. is horrible, I would prefer even a good quality DVD over that crap.

While I'm nowhere close to a "movie enthusiast", I want the quality to be decent whenever I have time to watch something. I simply don't understand why people want high quality TVs to watch low quality streaming services. And while gaming will still benefit from good TVs, it must be concerning for TV makers if Blu-Rays where to completely disappear and nothing were to replace it?

 

[sam_86314]

I still wonder if DRM actually loses sales rather than gains them, it places in place so many hurdles.

Even relatively simple form of media delivery in the form of Netflix I have had DRM problems with,

Something on my Edge install on this PC prevents Amazon video live events from working and for a period of a month or so a while back prevented Netflix and Amazon Video from working at all. I noticed I cannot even take a screenshot of Netflix which is an absolutely ridiculous amount of control taken by DRM. I use firefox now for web media, thankfully no issues and it performs better.

In terms of Media Players MPC-HC is my favourite, although I do also have MPC-BE and VLC.

VLC is a bit sluggish and I get weird issues with some media I have never been able to resolve, I have tried resetting to defaults of course to rule out me misconfiguring it. I have it installed still though as every so often I come across a rare format that only VLC can play.

MPC-BE I used to watch a 3d movie which MPC-HC couldnt handle, however it has a couple of issues that MPC-HC doesnt have plus its a bit slower so I use MPC-HC day to day.

I hope DRM causes lost sales.

I've had many unpleasant run-ins with it, like being unable to play Final Fantasy XV because my internet was shit, or having my physical copy of Need for Speed Carbon not work because the code in the box wasn't valid.

I no longer buy games with third-party DRM solutions (looking at you, Rockstar and Ubisoft), and I use open-source tools to "patch" the games I own on Steam so that I can play them without it. I buy games on GOG whenever possible.

I refuse to use streaming services other than Plex and have DRM playback disabled in my browser.

I love that MakeMKV works with brand-new Blu-ray movies on day one (if you have a Libre-mode compatible drive, which I do). I'd much rather buy physical media, rip it, and stream it over Plex than use other services like Netflix, Hulu (the absolute worst), and the millions of others.

Regarding media players, I really don't like VLC. I use clsid2's fork of MPC-HC, and it's so much better than VLC. I really wish it was available on Linux and Android.

 

[Mussels]

Odd. I never had such problems with DVD playback on a PC.

You're gonna make me go buy a DVD player just for the test.

I noticed it with BD, playing back a futurama movie

BD player -> TV was absolutely frame rate boosted, it was crystal clear with a hint of the soap opera effect but no artifacting and zero stutter or jitter while panning.
Playback on PC, even after ripping it and playing the RAW file (as well as H264 and H265 attemtps) had the same thing i get with anime playback... stutter/jitter while panning.

What i cant figure out is that it's the same TV, the same HDMI port, same resolution and refresh rate, same TV settings etc. Theres no reason they should be different, but something is crippled when it's played by anything other than a DVD/BD player.

This is the best i've got from looking online, that it may actually be running 50Hz not 60Hz to compensate?
The TV is a 100Hz panel (but 60Hz over HDMI) so the possibility it's doing 24FPs -> 50FPS doubled to 100Hz?

Edit: I need to test how this works at verious refresh rates on my displays now, ugh.
24 divides neatly into 144Hz, but not 165Hz
Then you get the monitors that show 60Hz and 59.97Hz and other similar refresh rates, and one may well hold the answer.

120Hz may be the perfect media refresh rate for a panel, since 24, 30 and 60 all divide into it
Edit edit: When my screens turn on HDR, they all lock to 120Hz. I'm starting to suspect why.

 

[Prima.Vera]

Why do you ever need to pay for this overpriced junk, when there are million of free solutions out there, even better than this, that can bypass any crappy security and locks.
Epic fail.

 

[zlobby]

I noticed it with BD, playing back a futurama movie

BD player -> TV was absolutely frame rate boosted, it was crystal clear with a hint of the soap opera effect but no artifacting and zero stutter or jitter while panning.
Playback on PC, even after ripping it and playing the RAW file (as well as H264 and H265 attemtps) had the same thing i get with anime playback... stutter/jitter while panning.

What i cant figure out is that it's the same TV, the same HDMI port, same resolution and refresh rate, same TV settings etc. Theres no reason they should be different, but something is crippled when it's played by anything other than a DVD/BD player.

This is the best i've got from looking online, that it may actually be running 50Hz not 60Hz to compensate?
The TV is a 100Hz panel (but 60Hz over HDMI) so the possibility it's doing 24FPs -> 50FPS doubled to 100Hz?

View attachment 247457

Edit: I need to test how this works at verious refresh rates on my displays now, ugh.
24 divides neatly into 144Hz, but not 165Hz
Then you get the monitors that show 60Hz and 59.97Hz and other similar refresh rates, and one may well hold the answer.

120Hz may be the perfect media refresh rate for a panel, since 24, 30 and 60 all divide into it
Edit edit: When my screens turn on HDR, they all lock to 120Hz. I'm starting to suspect why.

Yes, I'm familiar with all kinds of udders, incl. judder.

It would seem my monitors and TV sets just played nice, and my video players managed to compensate adequately for the FPS difference.

Also, most modern TV sets use 50 or 60Hz refresh rate with many glorified interpolation algorithms. Even the high-end ones.
Many of them can also turn off many input signal processings. It's worth to check your settings in more depth.

 

[chrcoluk]

I hope DRM causes lost sales.

I've had many unpleasant run-ins with it, like being unable to play Final Fantasy XV because my internet was shit, or having my physical copy of Need for Speed Carbon not work because the code in the box wasn't valid.

I no longer buy games with third-party DRM solutions (looking at you, Rockstar and Ubisoft), and I use open-source tools to "patch" the games I own on Steam so that I can play them without it. I buy games on GOG whenever possible.

I refuse to use streaming services other than Plex and have DRM playback disabled in my browser.

I love that MakeMKV works with brand-new Blu-ray movies on day one (if you have a Libre-mode compatible drive, which I do). I'd much rather buy physical media, rip it, and stream it over Plex than use other services like Netflix, Hulu (the absolute worst), and the millions of others.

Regarding media players, I really don't like VLC. I use clsid2's fork of MPC-HC, and it's so much better than VLC. I really wish it was available on Linux and Android.

I think recently was an xbox outage that prevented digital single player games from been played?

I would avoid DRM totally, but I cant be bothered with pirating everything now days like I used to when younger, good luck consuming movie content without DRM legally, games its a bit easier thanks to the GOG store, but that only has a limited amount of games sold there.

DRM is so invasive now days I do think its likely that it decreases sales, but the mindset of a typical exec that approves DRM is they would rather make it a bit harder to pirate something than to make it easy to legally consume their product.

 

[lexluthermiester]

good luck consuming movie content without DRM legally

Legally? Oh, that's easy. You just have to know how.

 

[Mussels]

Yes, I'm familiar with all kinds of udders, incl. judder.

It would seem my monitors and TV sets just played nice, and my video players managed to compensate adequately for the FPS difference.

Also, most modern TV sets use 50 or 60Hz refresh rate with many glorified interpolation algorithms. Even the high-end ones.
Many of them can also turn off many input signal processings. It's worth to check your settings in more depth.

I checked, my BD player is actually 50Hz - that's why it worked well. 24FPS @100Hz (TV doubled the refresh rate) vs 24FPS @ 60Hz matches the visual difference i could see. Smoother image minus the judder.

somehow 24 doubles into 50 problem free, when none of the others do it well

 

[zlobby]

I checked, my BD player is actually 50Hz - that's why it worked well. 24FPS @100Hz (TV doubled the refresh rate) vs 24FPS @ 60Hz matches the visual difference i could see. Smoother image minus the judder.

somehow 24 doubles into 50 problem free, when none of the others do it well

I'm interested to see what your finding would be for this thing.

 

[Mussels]

Legally? Oh, that's easy. You just have to know how.

Live in a country with slack piracy laws, tada!

Okay, i've got futurama on DVD and BD, so legally here i can have ripped copies (as long as i dont rip it myself, or share it. Yeah the laws are odd)
What i've noticed is that some are 29.97FPS (season 1) and some are 23.97FPS (season 5) (DVD vs BD Sources i guess)

Using madVR to give some actual stats on the playback, vs just eyeballing it (some of the stutter is actually from the source material, depending on the episode)

What stands out to moi, is the 'frame repeats' text every 44 seconds vs 1.8 minutes vs... oh 60hz is better?

So to summarise my 1440p displays: i have no idea

 

[lexluthermiester]

Live in a country with laws that respect citizen rights, tada!

I'm going to offer a correction here, no disrespect intended!

 

[whatever_gong82]

Cyberlink has recently removed the ability to play 4K UHD Blu-ray discs/ISOs/folders with PowerDVD 22 Ultra.

Please see here:

CyberLink Support Center

and here:

CyberLink Support Center

All future versions of PowerDVD from now on won't play any 4K UHD Blu-ray disc/ISO/folder.

 

[whatever_gong82]

I forgot to add this: If you're still using PowerDVD 22 Ultra, don't update to the latest patch, dated from last month (January 2024) and lock down your app (like my example below) so it won't download the update.

That way, you can still play 4K UHD Blu-ray disc/ISO file/folder with PowerDVD 22 Ultra without almost no problem.

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