TPU's Nostalgic Hardware Club

[Greenslade]

Right. I thought you were referring to the one that has the PCIe.

Your thinking about this one Acer Aspire M3640 Desktop PC with Intel Core 2 Q6600
It has been ruled out all though 15 is very cheap.I have four PC s as it is so don,t need another one for later systems.

No it is this one HP Pavilon 403 PC AGP PCI Athlon XP 1800+ nvidia nforce 512MB 20GB XP COA retro.It has one AGP slot.

There is no AGP slot on that system. Avoid it.

So any PC with a AGP slot is fine.

 

[Aaron_Henderson]

Nobody wants to make any corrections? lol

 

[Athlonite]

Yup ... and yup!


Sorry, I realize that it looks kinda blurry, but for some reason I couldn't focus on all those solder pads. Happy to report, it seems to be working OK now What happened (and I'm guessing) is that over time solder joints cracked, eventually causing the molex connector to lose power entirely which obviously resulted with the CD-ROM drive not getting recognized and/or working entirely.

works when cold fails after it warms up = dry solder joint resolder and it should be fine

 

[AlwaysHope]

Today I got a hold of Asrock 890GM Pro3 mATX board. The SB850 southbridge is the world's first native Sata 3 specification chipset for desktop systems. Now I can mount my Phenom II 1055T on that baby, see how we go with it.... then try my Phenom II 905e next... scored this board for imo bargain basement $ too!
View attachment 247977

View attachment 247979

Not too bad as a windows 10 backup machine for light desktop duties...

I have the system up & running now, but inserted the Phenom II 905e in first to see how it goes on this platform. After first bootup the bios was the first original bios v1.10, so flashed it to the latest beta bios v1.55. After doing that, enabled UEFI bios defaults then rebooted again. In going to change the DRAM frequency, the board seems to be stubbornly stuck on 1066MHz despite checking I entered 1333MHz for some early testing with 16GB set of sticks I have here, but early MT86 testing reveals the board is still stubbornly sticking to 1066MHz DRAM frequency! annoying to say the least....

So I decided to "downgrade" the bios to v1.50 which is not listed as beta by Asrock, however with early MT86 testing, the system is sill indicating 1066MHz for DRAM! Never seen this kind of behaviour before in any system I've ever owned. It's like the bios is ignoring any tweaking to the DRAM whatsoever. Not sure if its because of the Kingston set of 16GB sticks I have or not or if it's because of the type of CPU I'm using. Nevertheless, I have other DDR3 kits here to try in any case then. I'm thinking at this stage, does the system need the old trick of removing CMOS battery, shortening the CMOS jumper & doing all that for at least 10 mins??

 

[MachineLearning]

I have the system up & running now, but inserted the Phenom II 905e in first to see how it goes on this platform. After first bootup the bios was the first original bios v1.10, so flashed it to the latest beta bios v1.55. After doing that, enabled UEFI bios defaults then rebooted again. In going to change the DRAM frequency, the board seems to be stubbornly stuck on 1066MHz despite checking I entered 1333MHz for some early testing with 16GB set of sticks I have here, but early MT86 testing reveals the board is still stubbornly sticking to 1066MHz DRAM frequency! annoying to say the least....

So I decided to "downgrade" the bios to v1.50 which is not listed as beta by Asrock, however with early MT86 testing, the system is sill indicating 1066MHz for DRAM! Never seen this kind of behaviour before in any system I've ever owned. It's like the bios is ignoring any tweaking to the DRAM whatsoever. Not sure if its because of the Kingston set of 16GB sticks I have or not or if it's because of the type of CPU I'm using. Nevertheless, I have other DDR3 kits here to try in any case then. I'm thinking at this stage, does the system need the old trick of removing CMOS battery, shortening the CMOS jumper & doing all that for at least 10 mins??

The CPU should support DDR3-1333, so I think it's potentially BIOS weirdness if it's indeed sticking at 1066MHz. However I've sometimes had MemTest86 read my memory timings + frequency entirely wrong, is it DDR3-1066 in-OS as well?

 

[AlwaysHope]

The CPU should support DDR3-1333, so I think it's potentially BIOS weirdness if it's indeed sticking at 1066MHz. However I've sometimes had MemTest86 read my memory timings + frequency entirely wrong, is it DDR3-1066 in-OS as well?

Testing at the moment with MT86, but as you can see in these screenshots, at least especially with MT86 v5.01, it indicates conflicting info. I tried using v9.4 of MT86 as its the latest for UEFI based systems but that version reports limitations with this particular UEFI version technology on this board. So I reverted to the non UEFI MT86 with version 5.01 that is designed for pre UEFI based systems. Upping the FSB to 216 definitely shows the CPU increase in speed as well of course as the DRAM frequency (1151) as shown in the main entries for 1st page of bios. When moving to the OC tweaker section that demonstrates that DDR3 1439 frequency has been entered but it doesn't save properly when rebooting despite pressing F10 to get the prompt to save changes... most puzzling indeed!
Bios setup:

 

[MachineLearning]

Testing at the moment with MT86, but as you can see in these screenshots, at least especially with MT86 v5.01, it indicates conflicting info. I tried using v9.4 of MT86 as its the latest for UEFI based systems but that version reports limitations with this particular UEFI version technology on this board. So I reverted to the non UEFI MT86 with version 5.01 that is designed for pre UEFI based systems. Upping the FSB to 216 definitely shows the CPU increase in speed as well of course as the DRAM frequency (1151) as shown in the main entries for 1st page of bios. When moving to the OC tweaker section that demonstrates that DDR3 1439 frequency has been entered but it doesn't save properly when rebooting despite pressing F10 to get the prompt to save changes... most puzzling indeed!
Bios setup:
View attachment 248203

View attachment 248204

View attachment 248205

Interesting... I don't have a great solution right off the bat so I'll just ask, is it a fresh battery with voltage > = 3.0v? And does XMP work for any module? Have you tried the other pair of DIMM slots, or just one stick?

 

[AlwaysHope]

Interesting... I don't have a great solution right off the bat so I'll just ask, is it a fresh battery with voltage > = 3.0v? And does XMP work for any module? Have you tried the other pair of DIMM slots, or just one stick?

Yes, its a fresh CMOS battery alright. Board doesn't seem to have XMP profiles that I can find at least. Haven't tried other kits of RAM yet but that is an option to explore of course in time.

 

[lexluthermiester]

View attachment 248179
?

Now show us the device manager...

Nobody wants to make any corrections? lol

Don't get snarky. Real life is a thing and it sometimes means I don't always respond right away.

Edit:
I also stand behind my statement and am, at this moment, installing Windows ME in my Lenovo Core2Quad Q9550 based system to show what happens.

Edit2:
After setup completes and the system reboot, Windows ME gets stuck in a crashing boot loop, even when I try safe mode.
Tried again on a spare drive with my X58 based Dell T3500 and the same thing happens.

Not surprising at all...

SOOOOO...

@agent_x007
How'd you pull that off?

For the record, no PCIe based motherboard supports Windows 95/98/98se/ME as there is ZERO official driver support. None! If someone wants a Win9X based system for retro computing, single core CPUs on an AGP based system is the option.

 

[agent_x007]

Now show us the device manager...

And how's that supposed to relate to this :

If the system has PCIe, none of the 9X kernel Windows will run on it as there are no PCIe drivers for Win9X. For Windows 95->ME you need an AGP based system.

?

Either way, I don't think I have a screnshot of device manager - but here's a video with what you want to see :

And earlier in the video, you can see 3DMark 03 and DOOM3 running on this just fine, so I don't see the point you are trying to make ?

EDIT :
I worked around limitations of software with hardware where I could, and tweaked non-hardware software problems based on other people's experience.
Here's some background thread on Vogons : https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=56460

 

[lexluthermiester]

No it is this one HP Pavilon 403 PC AGP PCI Athlon XP 1800+ nvidia nforce 512MB 20GB XP COA retro.It has one AGP slot.View attachment 248182


So any PC with a AGP slot is fine.

That one will work! The Athlon 1800+ was an excellent CPU. An Athlon64 based system would be better though and should be in the same price range.

Either way, I don't think I have a screnshot of device manager - but here's a video with what you want to see : And earlier in the video, you can see 3DMark 03 and DOOM3 running on this just fine, so I don't see the point you are trying to make ?

EDIT :
I worked around limitations of software with hardware where I could, and tweaked non-hardware software problems based on other people's experience.
Here's some background thread on Vogons : https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=56460

Yeah, that is a crap ton of custom config and patching stuff there and a lot of it is super janky. Not something for the average RetroPC user. Props for getting it working! However, most people are not going to have the BIOS options to make for a compatible operating environment as most OEM systems don't have many of those options.

Someone who just wants something to Plug&Play is just going to want to stick in the Windows ME CD, boot up, install and away they go.. For that, an AGP based system is the best option and the only option with Official driver support for the chipsets and CPUs.

 

[agent_x007]

Thank you, it wasn't easy (like you said - not for most people).
I only would like to add that I'm not sure how much of this stuff is actually needed for someone that simply wants one or two OS'es installed, or if someone is using LGA 775 platform (with PCI-e slot for single GPU).
I had A LOT of things connected, because I did 6 operatings systems on the same PC after all

PS. AGP GART support on Win98 with later chipsets can be funky, even with official drivers.

 

[lexluthermiester]

PS. AGP GART support on Win98 with later chipsets can be funky, even with official drivers.

True! And that's one of the things Windows ME fixed, IIRC.

 

[Greenslade]

That one will work! The Athlon 1800+ was an excellent CPU. An Athlon64 based system would be better though and should be in the same price range.


Yeah, that is a crap ton of custom config and patching stuff there and a lot of it is super janky. Not something for the average RetroPC user. Props for getting it working! However, most people are not going to have the BIOS options to make for a compatible operating environment as most OEM systems don't have many of those options.

Someone who just wants something to Plug&Play is just going to want to stick in the Windows ME CD, boot up, install and away they go.. For that, an AGP based system is the best option and the only option with Official driver support for the chipsets and CPUs.

There are so few on eBay when i type in AGP desktip PC.I have also typed Windows Me and Windows 98.This is another one on my price range but the Duron CPU is weaker than the Athlon 1800.This is it here
Midi Tower AMD Duron 1.3Ghz 128MB Ram
“Marks,scratches from everyday usage, but in good overall condition. Powers on and works perfectly.”
Powered on and works perfectly.

Specifications:
CPU : AMD Duron 1.3Ghz
RAM : 128MB
HDD : 20GB
Graphics : ATi Rage 128 (also has an onboard graphics chip)
Has CDROM drive, Floppy disk drive, 20GB Maxtor Hard drive, 2 x USB 2.0 ports
Internal expansion slots are 3 x PCI slots, 1 AGP slot occupied by the ATi card.
Has Windows XP installed, though it will need to be activated. It looks dusty free in there the caps look ik to me.Good old beige The other one has better specs,the only thing it does not have is the ATI Rage card do i need one as the other one has built in Nvida graphis.This one here is £65 with shipping no make any offer.The other other one is £50 make an offer .If i have to get the rage card in this one it will cost me an extrer
£10 are the built in Nivida good enough to not need an ATI card?I do like the switch on this PSU that the other one does not have.

 

[Aaron_Henderson]

I wasn't being snarky...you commented, completely didn't mention my comment even though your comment was posted purely to say I was wrong. I wasn't. You're now getting snarky, Lex. I was making a funny...guess humor isn't allowed 'round here. I don't have to post here, I can keep my info to myself, no biggie. Also...I'm sure I'm not alone when I say this is the nostalgic hardware club, and I have ZERO nostalgia for Windows ME as I never ran it during its time. So I don't care if one OS is easier, it's easier to run a modern OS and use a VM and not even buy retro hardware. Yet here we are.

 

[Trekkie4]

 

[Aaron_Henderson]

Well, I'll take the hint. All my content will be removed and I'll not be wasting my time here. I'll run into the users that matter elsewhere. Gate keep all you want.

 

[Trekkie4]

Well, I'll take the hint. All my content will be removed and I'll not be wasting my time here. I'll run into the users that matter elsewhere. Gate keep all you want.

Dude, just calm down, OK? That's all I meant to say, this thread has already seen way too many off-topic discussions lately.

 

[Aaron_Henderson]

Dude, just calm down, OK? That's all I meant to say, this thread has already seen way too many off-topic discussions lately.

On topic, I really love that TDK optical drive of yours. It always amazed me that a cassette tape company would make (or at least license) optical drives, it's kinda bizarre.

I'm calm, just moving on...is there a way to have all of my posts deleted or at least editable? I'll be gone the moment that is figured out. I'd like to remove my content first, if possible. Someone can sort out the off topic whenever they want, I'm not concerned with it right now.

 

[P4-630]

I'm calm, just moving on...is there a way to have all of my posts deleted or at least editable? I'll be gone the moment that is figured out. I'd like to remove my content first, if possible. Someone can sort out the off topic whenever they want, I'm not concerned with it right now.

You can edit or delete your own posts, but not all, there's a specific time on it.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Lex. I was making a funny...guess humor isn't allowed 'round here.

If you were making a joke, that didn't come across. It seemed like you were being antagonistic. I apologize for my comment. Perhaps in future when you throw out a joking comment, throw out the laugh emoji with it so your intent is clearly understood. Only a suggestion.

I don't have to post here, I can keep my info to myself, no biggie.

No, don't go. Misunderstandings happen, it's all good.

 

[framebuffer]

Yee I finally got a GeForce FX 5950 Ultra!

...well, at least this is what I thought until I saw it

View attachment 247499View attachment 247500

This thing was watercooled, delidded and caught fire at some point of his life

...after some serious amount of IPA and paper towels I managed to clean it at this level

View attachment 247501
View attachment 247502

The previous owner sold me the card in a set (MB/CPU/RAM/VGA) and at first he was sure the system booted some times ago, but when we discovered the barbecue he was not so much sure

Anyways, what do you think?
Should I try to see if the card is able to POST before replacing the roasted components? Any idea if those components are vital for a POST / no load?
Is it even possible that this thing is not dead after part of the power delivery exploded?
(btw Cxxx stands for capacitor?)

When there is visible damage like that, chances are high that there's damage not visible.
Don't waste time or money on it.

100uF 10V is what it means I'm pretty sure. Not sure what the input voltage on the VRM is, 5V? 12V?, maybe they were being run over spec and they went after a while. If it still works I would suggest replacing them all (including the ones that didn't blow) with 100uF 16V Tantalum caps instead just to be safe, make sure they're the same size too.

Pop it in a cheap board and see if it even turns on first though before you go spending money on a possibly dead card (the caps won't change whether it works or not).

I'd try it in an useless crappy board, not in the main AGP system.

it works!


even found a suitable/good matching heatsink

Now, @DR4G00N would you be so kind to help me find the right replacement caps?
I usually buy this stuff here: https://www.distrelec.ch/en
Also, what's your opinion, is this a heat-gun job or it can be done with a normal solder station?

 

[DR4G00N]

Now, @DR4G00N would you be so kind to help me find the right replacement caps?
I usually buy this stuff here: https://www.distrelec.ch/en
Also, what's your opinion, is this a heat-gun job or it can be done with a normal solder station?

One of these will do I think:

https://www.distrelec.ch/en/passive-components/capacitors/polymer-capacitors/smd-tantalum-electrolytic-capacitors/c/cat-DNAV_PL_03020703?q=*&filter_Rated+Voltage+DC%7E%7EV=16&filter_Package+Type=2917&filter_Capacitance%7E%7EuF=100&filter_category4Code=cat-DNAV_PL_03020703&filter_category3Code=cat-L3D_616574

But like I said measure your caps to make sure they're the same size or at least very close.

For this type of component I typically use just hot air for the whole process, the pcb can soak up quite a bit of heat without a pcb heater so an iron is not very effective. Cover the area around where you're soldering with aluminum foil to shield everything else from direct heat. If you want to be fancy you can use soldering paste too but I normally just tin the pads and use a bit of flux.

 

[Greenslade]

If you were making a joke, that didn't come across. It seemed like you were being antagonistic. I apologize for my comment. Perhaps in future when you throw out a joking comment, throw out the laugh emoji with it so your intent is clearly understood. Only a suggestion.

No, don't go. Misunderstandings happen, it's all good.

Lex can you tell me which one to go for this one HP Pavilon 403 PC AGP PCI Athlon XP 1800+ nvidia nforce 512MB 20GB £50 pounds make an offer.Or this one Computer System Midi Tower AMD Duron 1.3Ghz 128MB Ram it comes with a ATI Rage card how does that compare to the bulit in Nivida card of the HP the Athion xp 1800 Is better than the Duron.The Duron case looks better to me in beige. And i like the switch for the PSU.And looks better inside the case than the HP.
*Powers on and works perfectly.”The seller says for the Duion.All the drller days for the Hp one is* “In good condition, considering its age.”nothing about the main thing like the seller says for the Duron modal .If it was on looks alone i would go for the Duron modal.
But unfourunaly the Hp has the better specs out of the box add to that it is a fair bit cheaper.I did try to have a conversation but it timed out.
So what should i go for?There the only two on my price range This is the maximun.
Never seen a TDK dtive on a PC before.

Or this onr

 

[stinger608]

I'd try and score the system with the Athlon 1800+ vs the Duron @Greenslade

It will be much faster and you will have a much better experience vs trying to run the Duron chip.