Tech Power Up Hardware Purchase Advice

[lexluthermiester]

The whole purpose of this thread is for users to seek help searching for computer systems new and old, for any purpose.

Please use the "Reply" button whenever possible to reduce confusion for new users. Forum rules apply so let's all be friendly and helpful!

(Note to mods, sorry for starting it in the wrong section. Thanks for moving it!)


So let's begin:

I have seen videos of cases that looked like the one you describe and when you take the side panel off there is a lot less room in there.That is not good. Yes it does.
And to go for bigger cases.You don,t want it to get to hot on there.


I just hope i am confident enough to take the PSU out and put the AMD CPU in there as i have never had an AMD cpu before.Will the heatsink on the cpu now. work with the new cpu?


Lex and anyone else i have just seen this it seems to good to be true
Retro Vintage Packard Bell Pentium 4 Desktop Gaming Home PC with DOS Win 3.1

• Packard Bell UTOW-SUN PC

• Intel Pentium 4 3.06 GHz

• Type - Personal computer

• Form Factor - Tower

• Processor - 1 x Intel Pentium 4 HT / 3.06 GHz

• RAM - Total of 2 GB (installed) DDR2 SDRAM

• Storage Controller - Serial ATA ( Serial ATA)

• Hard Drive - - standard - Serial ATA

• Optical Storage - DVDRW Drive

• 6 USB Sockets

“Working Packard Bell Desktop PC with formatted 80GB hard drive, and set up as a retro machine with DOS 6 and WIN 3.1 installed. Has working DVD ROM and DVD R/W drives, plus USB, Firewire ports and Card readers. Obviously these last don't work under DOS, but you could reinstall Win XP on the hard drive if you wanted these. Maybe make it a dual boot machine. Note that Win XP is not supplied. The computer supplied is the main unit only, no keyboard, mouse, monitor, and the outer covers are held in place with duct tape as the plastic clips are broken. See photos for cosmetic condition. Comes with the Packard Bell guides, DVD and Microsoft 8 license card as shown.”Price reduced as I need the space - surely a bargain for someone!
View attachment 248640
View attachment 248641
Model:
UTOW-SAN
View attachment 248643Brand:
View attachment 248644Packard Bell. No. mention. of AGP?
View attachment 248645
Graphics Processor: Price £24? What do you think the case is in a bit of a sate
Does it have a AGP? Windows 3,1. Dos. ?
AMD Radeon Graphics
Firewire, USB 2.0

It looks like it's a good system and has an AGP card already installed. It has a lot of bells and whistles. Seems like a good deal.

 

[68Olds]

I can't find a good spec list for this PB model (btw, it's UTOW-SUN). There were 2 P4 3.06GHz CPUs, one was a Northwood & s478, the other a Prescott & LGA775. The DDR2 tells me this is the LGA775 version. Most LGA775 motherboards were PCIe & I think this one is too, not AGP.

As to PB - many people owned a Packard Bell, far fewer owned two. Just sayin'.

Edit: @Greenslade I think you should continue looking for older AMD systems with either SDR or DDR RAM, an AGP slot (hopefully with a gaming card), in a beige box with a standard layout.
By "gaming" graphic card I mean something like a Geforce4 Ti4400 & not a Geforce4 MX 420. The MX 420 fills the roll of "because the mobo doesn't have onboard". Hope that makes sense.

 

[Greenslade]

The whole purpose of this thread is for users to seek help searching for computer systems new and old, for any purpose.

Please use the "Reply" button whenever possible to reduce confusion for new users. Forum rules apply so let's all be friendly and helpful!



So let's begin:

It looks like it's a good system and has an AGP card already installed. It has a lot of bells and whistles. Seems like a good deal.

It has just been put on there, so i dare say it will go quickly.From what i understand the Pentium 4 runs very hot as this guy says in the video and needs a better case.
That could be good one for me as a beginner to put i in a new case plus the fact it is only £24 pounds if it goes pear shape it want be a problem,I will have to pick it up it is the other side of London.As you know i don,t drive so have to use public transport.I bet it is a heavy bugger.Would it be a straight forward thing to put it in another case?
I have got in touch with the seller, but i see he will only give the address when i click the buy it now button.I can see the area he lives in there is a tube station near there ,hopefully it is not to far from the station.He does say on there he has reduced the price.I will click the buy it now after your advice. And hopefully it will all work fine.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I can't find a good spec list for this PB model (btw, it's UTOW-SUN). There were 2 P4 3.06GHz CPUs, one was a Northwood & s478, the other a Prescott & LGA775. The DDR2 tells me this is the LGA775 version. Most LGA775 motherboards were PCIe & I think this one is too, not AGP.

As to PB - many people owned a Packard Bell, far fewer owned two. Just sayin'.

You might be right.

 

[Greenslade]

I can't find a good spec list for this PB model (btw, it's UTOW-SUN). There were 2 P4 3.06GHz CPUs, one was a Northwood & s478, the other a Prescott & LGA775. The DDR2 tells me this is the LGA775 version. Most LGA775 motherboards were PCIe & I think this one is too, not AGP.

As to PB - many people owned a Packard Bell, far fewer owned two. Just sayin'.

Edit: @Greenslade I think you should continue looking for older AMD systems with either SDR or DDR RAM, an AGP slot (hopefully with a gaming card), in a beige box with a standard layout.
By "gaming" graphic card I mean something like a Geforce4 Ti4400 & not a Geforce4 MX 420. The MX 420 fills the roll of "because the mobo doesn't have onboard". Hope that makes sense.

Good job you said that,I did not click the buy it now button.Like you i could not find
much info on the modal .The two i put on here tick the boxes.But not the gaming card.It certainly does thanks for your good advice once again. Glad i did not click the buy it now button after Lex said i should buy it.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Glad i did not click the buy it now button after Lex said i should buy it.

Let's be fair, I said it looks good, didn't say to buy it.

The Athlon 2600 you mentioned earlier is a definite good buy as Windows ME support is a sure thing.

 

[68Olds]

Good job you said that,I did not click the buy it now button.Like you i could not find
much info on the modal .The two i put on here tick the boxes.But not the gaming card.It certainly does thanks for your good advice once again. Glad i did not click the buy it now button after Lex said i should buy it.

To clarify for others looking at this thread & helping out. Greenslade's goal is to find a DOS and Windows 98 or Windows ME retro gaming PC. The max RAM needed is only 512MB. I can tell you from experience 384MB (128+256) can run Windows ME, not ideal but it can do it. The mobo needs an AGP slot. Friends in the UK, please help out if you find him good deals FS in the London area.

 

[Greenslade]

Let's be fair, I said it looks good, didn't say to buy it.

The Athlon 2600 you mentioned earlier is a definite good buy as Windows ME support is a sure thing.

Fair comment there Lex.

To clarify for others looking at this thread & helping out. Greenslade's goal is to find a DOS and Windows 98 or Windows ME retro gaming PC. The max RAM needed is only 512MB. I can tell you from experience 384MB (128+256) can run Windows ME, not ideal but it can do it. The mobo needs an AGP slot. Friends in the UK, please help out if you find him good deals FS in the London area.

Thanks once again, hope your day is going wellI looked on eBay and did not see those two cards you mentioned .Why don,t they have a* Buy and Sell *forum on here?

 

[lexluthermiester]

The max RAM needed is only 512MB.

This would be true for Windows 98. However, Greenslade has said they want to use Windows ME which can handle upto 2GB stable. So limiting the search to 512MB is not as critical.

 

[Greenslade]

I just got a message from the seller of the Packard Bell

*I've no idea sorry, and it sold a little while back, so shouldn't have been relisted.*​

That's a bit weird that it was sold a while back that is. I am not surprised that he does not know whether it had an APG slot in it though.

I can't find a good spec list for this PB model (btw, it's UTOW-SUN). There were 2 P4 3.06GHz CPUs, one was a Northwood & s478, the other a Prescott & LGA775. The DDR2 tells me this is the LGA775 version. Most LGA775 motherboards were PCIe & I think this one is too, not AGP.

As to PB - many people owned a Packard Bell, far fewer owned two. Just sayin'.

Edit: @Greenslade I think you should continue looking for older AMD systems with either SDR or DDR RAM, an AGP slot (hopefully with a gaming card), in a beige box with a standard layout.
By "gaming" graphic card I mean something like a Geforce4 Ti4400 & not a Geforce4 MX 420. The MX 420 fills the roll of "because the mobo doesn't have onboard". Hope that makes sense.

Rge

I can't find a good spec list for this PB model (btw, it's UTOW-SUN). There were 2 P4 3.06GHz CPUs, one was a Northwood & s478, the other a Prescott & LGA775. The DDR2 tells me this is the LGA775 version. Most LGA775 motherboards were PCIe & I think this one is too, not AGP.

As to PB - many people owned a Packard Bell, far fewer owned two. Just sayin'.

Edit: @Greenslade I think you should continue looking for older AMD systems with either SDR or DDR RAM, an AGP slot (hopefully with a gaming card), in a beige box with a standard layout.
By "gaming" graphic card I mean something like a Geforce4 Ti4400 & not a Geforce4 MX 420. The MX 420 fills the roll of "because the mobo doesn't have onboard". Hope that makes sense.

The cheapest price on eBay for the Geforce4 Ti4400 is 60 pounds plus 16.29 shipping
from Greece And a darn sight dearer from the USA.
I want be getting one of those for sure.

Motherboard is Winfast K7S741MG/K7S741 6L
I've put a fresh install of XP on this unit but this is just to show the machine working -
Other than this, it is working perfectly. I built this machine doing for my brother about 15 years ago amazingly. He's just had an upgrade and so this unit has been refurbed for a retro computing enthusiast to enjoy and tinker with.
Vintage Desktop PC Windows XP AMD Sempron 2400+ tower case, working well
£46 it looks in a1 condition no cards in there though Nice looking massive case.
He must have cleaned it out lots of room in there. of room in there.The brown one is an AGP isn,t it?

GPU:SiS onboard VGA graphics Hard Drive Capacity: 120 GB Ram 512 mb

 

[phill]

Well, might be a good place to start then....

I'm considering my first ever ITX/M-ATX build, something small and simple to be easily moveable and that's a little more powerful than a paperweight would be nice. AMD or Intel, might need to deal with some light gaming as well but I'm wondering what route to take... Hit me with your suggestions (Well don't actually hit me, just suggestions would be good )

Also need some ideas about the homelab but I'll put that in right section

 

[Dinnercore]

This may be a bit of a long shot but does anyone have experience with high density DDR4 on X570? I'm setting up a workstation and got a very good deal on a 5950X. Now 64GB are starting to become an issue, which is why I'm looking into options for 128GB and I wondered if a kit like the F4-4000C18Q-128GTZR even makes sense for Zen?
I would expect that 3600 is a good spot to be in, but with 128GB can I even get the FCLK to 1800MHz? A 3200 C16 kit would be like 200$ less compared to a 3600-4000 C18 kit. Also QVL lists seem rather sparse at 128GB.

 

[tabascosauz]

Well, might be a good place to start then....

I'm considering my first ever ITX/M-ATX build, something small and simple to be easily moveable and that's a little more powerful than a paperweight would be nice. AMD or Intel, might need to deal with some light gaming as well but I'm wondering what route to take... Hit me with your suggestions (Well don't actually hit me, just suggestions would be good )

Also need some ideas about the homelab but I'll put that in right section

If you can find a GPU, that changes the dynamic completely. Otherwise, 5600G/5700G exists. I hear Renoir might have availability as well, if 4650G and like B550M-ITX/ac or an A520 board might save you a quick buck for the exact same iGPU performance.

This may be a bit of a long shot but does anyone have experience with high density DDR4 on X570? I'm setting up a workstation and got a very good deal on a 5950X. Now 64GB are starting to become an issue, which is why I'm looking into options for 128GB and I wondered if a kit like the F4-4000C18Q-128GTZR even makes sense for Zen?
I would expect that 3600 is a good spot to be in, but with 128GB can I even get the FCLK to 1800MHz? A 3200 C16 kit would be like 200$ less compared to a 3600-4000 C18 kit. Also QVL lists seem rather sparse at 128GB.

4x32 I'd worry more about the board and UMC than FCLK. Going to 4 ranks per channel is a huge hit to the board and memory controller load regardless of layer count. Fabric itself maybe need a bit more VSOC and that's about it.

MSI advertises detailed QVL speeds for x ranks per channel for most boards, gives you an idea of what to expect. 3200 safe bet, 4x32 3600+ probably doable on a good 6-layer.

 

[Greenslade]

What does anyone think of the system I put on here?
Should I go for it?
Sempron 2400 v Athlon 1800 Athlon 3% worse on game debate.
I was thinking of upgrading the CPU to an AMD Sempron 2600.

 

[68Olds]

Winfast is Foxconn and find any sort of drivers for that board is going to be difficult. Foxconn's support & download site is gone.
My opinion is to keep looking. It would be great to find a motherboard with a driver disc or a web site to download a manual & drivers.

Also, I wasn't saying the Ti4400 is the gaming card to get (although if you can find an inexpensive one grab it!) I'm trying to help you see the difference between a gaming video card and a video card for office type use. There are lots of both types and a lot of tricky naming to make us think an office card might be a gaming card.

 

[phill]

This may be a bit of a long shot but does anyone have experience with high density DDR4 on X570? I'm setting up a workstation and got a very good deal on a 5950X. Now 64GB are starting to become an issue, which is why I'm looking into options for 128GB and I wondered if a kit like the F4-4000C18Q-128GTZR even makes sense for Zen?
I would expect that 3600 is a good spot to be in, but with 128GB can I even get the FCLK to 1800MHz? A 3200 C16 kit would be like 200$ less compared to a 3600-4000 C18 kit. Also QVL lists seem rather sparse at 128GB.

Personally I've never had any issues with 3200 memory stuff, its just set and go. Sadly though with just 3600 I haven't been able to get it to work with my 64GB kit.. I'm guessing its voltages that might need to be tweaked a little but I'm not really worried about a few percent better performance. I can't sadly comment on a 128GB kit, I've not needed to upgrade over 64GB just yet

If you can find a GPU, that changes the dynamic completely. Otherwise, 5600G/5700G exists. I hear Renoir might have availability as well, if 4650G and like B550M-ITX/ac or an A520 board might save you a quick buck for the exact same iGPU performance.



4x32 I'd worry more about the board and UMC than FCLK. Going to 4 ranks per channel is a huge hit to the board and memory controller load regardless of layer count. Fabric itself maybe need a bit more VSOC and that's about it.

MSI advertises detailed QVL speeds for x ranks per channel for most boards, gives you an idea of what to expect. 3200 safe bet, 4x32 3600+ probably doable on a good 6-layer.

GPU not really a problem, I've a few I can put my hands on and use I was half wondering about something like a 5900X or something for the CPU, I'd rather spend a few quid if it would give me what I'm after. Giving me budgets I'd only be skimping on things and then hating it..
I was toying with one of the Miniforums PCs but seeing some reviews and such, I'm thinking better off building something small or small ish

 

[tabascosauz]

GPU not really a problem, I've a few I can put my hands on and use I was half wondering about something like a 5900X or something for the CPU, I'd rather spend a few quid if it would give me what I'm after. Giving me budgets I'd only be skimping on things and then hating it..
I was toying with one of the Miniforums PCs but seeing some reviews and such, I'm thinking better off building something small or small ish

How small though, what sort of shape case, what kind of layout? If you can't at least get to say a NH-U9S level of cooling, you will not be able to run a stock 5900X without throttling.

5600X and APUs are a popular choice for small (<10L) or sandwich cases on air for that reason, they are trivially easy to cool.

 

[Greenslade]

Winfast is Foxconn and find any sort of drivers for that board is going to be difficult. Foxconn's support & download site is gone.
My opinion is to keep looking. It would be great to find a motherboard with a driver disc or a web site to download a manual & drivers.

Also, I wasn't saying the Ti4400 is the gaming card to get (although if you can find an inexpensive one grab it!) I'm trying to help you see the difference between a gaming video card and a video card for office type use. There are lots of both types and a lot of tricky naming to make us think an office card might be a gaming card.

Thanks, I will give that a miss then, it looks like a nice PC though. So it looks like the booster one is the one to go for.No chance of that by looking on eBay. Yes i realize
that it your help is much appreciated I get your point there. It is a shame snappy drivers don,t do drivers for Win 98 and Me..The answer is to get a PC with either 98 or Me already installed on it. most of them are out of my price range.

Here are the drivers for *This is Foxconn download site​

Foxconn K7S741MG-6L Driver Download (Official)​

Supported Operating Systems​

Windows XP, Windows 2000, Windows NT4, Windows NT3.51, Windows ME, Windows 98 *

Supported Models​

K7S741MG-6L Driver

Integrated 10/100 Ethernet Controller Driver

SiS 900 PCI Fast Ethernet Adapter Driver

SiS 900-Based PCI Fast Ethernet Adapter Driver

Manufacturers​

Foxconn

IBM

SiS

Sony

File Name​

sisLAN.ZIP (11.1 MB)

 

[lexluthermiester]

This may be a bit of a long shot but does anyone have experience with high density DDR4 on X570? I'm setting up a workstation and got a very good deal on a 5950X. Now 64GB are starting to become an issue, which is why I'm looking into options for 128GB and I wondered if a kit like the F4-4000C18Q-128GTZR even makes sense for Zen?
I would expect that 3600 is a good spot to be in, but with 128GB can I even get the FCLK to 1800MHz? A 3200 C16 kit would be like 200$ less compared to a 3600-4000 C18 kit. Also QVL lists seem rather sparse at 128GB.

You should be ok. The RAM might drop itself to 3200 or even 2667 speeds, but it will run.

 

[phill]

How small though, what sort of shape case, what kind of layout? If you can't at least get to say a NH-U9S level of cooling, you will not be able to run a stock 5900X without throttling.

5600X and APUs are a popular choice for small (<10L) or sandwich cases on air for that reason, they are trivially easy to cool.

I was considering something small like a Miniforum build but after a few reviews and such, they still only use APUs that I can see and ideally, I'd like to get something like a dedicated GPU in there.. I've a few M-ATX boards that I could well use even if just for testing. I've a few spare AIOs as well (280s though...) so it would be nice to get something like that installed if I could. I have a 8086k and my MOCF board I can use as a starter or even a tester, so it might be an option. I'm kinda torn with an AMD system as well, a 5900X seems to be such good value and I've seen a few Impact boards for sale as well which would be lovely to have but not really needed.

I mean if I could get one of my 3070s or even a 3080 installed in with my 8086k for the moment (could always upgrade to a 9900k or something and be done with it, I'd be more than fine with that really Think its just an excuse to try something different and buy some more hardware... But its not like I really need an excuse to buy hardware lol

Penny for anyone's thoughts

 

[tabascosauz]

I was considering something small like a Miniforum build but after a few reviews and such, they still only use APUs that I can see and ideally, I'd like to get something like a dedicated GPU in there.. I've a few M-ATX boards that I could well use even if just for testing. I've a few spare AIOs as well (280s though...) so it would be nice to get something like that installed if I could. I have a 8086k and my MOCF board I can use as a starter or even a tester, so it might be an option. I'm kinda torn with an AMD system as well, a 5900X seems to be such good value and I've seen a few Impact boards for sale as well which would be lovely to have but not really needed.

I mean if I could get one of my 3070s or even a 3080 installed in with my 8086k for the moment (could always upgrade to a 9900k or something and be done with it, I'd be more than fine with that really Think its just an excuse to try something different and buy some more hardware... But its not like I really need an excuse to buy hardware lol

Penny for anyone's thoughts

There's that ZZAW B3 case I think if you wanna use mATX. Small but no 280mm, but you also won't need to because air clearance. Probably plenty of other options in the master list:

SFF PC Master List

docs.google.com

Just keep in mind that while 10-20L sandwich layout (FormD, NR200, SM580, DAN, SSUPD) is usually a good choice for those preferences (240/280mm AIO, full length GPU, good temps for both), you have to choose between Impact and sandwich. DTX only fits conventional layouts (ie. NCASE, NR200).

if you don't need anything specific on the Impact (5 fan headers, LN2 and open benching, dual 4.0 NVMes, multiple water temp headers, 7 x Gen2 USB), this board isn't actually that special for the spend. The features make it a solid daily but I have a feeling that's not what it'll be for you. For everyday OC the B550 ITX boards work fine with an extra vandal button hooked up to clear CMOS, and you don't even need that for the MSI B550I

 

[Why_Me]

Well, might be a good place to start then....

I'm considering my first ever ITX/M-ATX build, something small and simple to be easily moveable and that's a little more powerful than a paperweight would be nice. AMD or Intel, might need to deal with some light gaming as well but I'm wondering what route to take... Hit me with your suggestions (Well don't actually hit me, just suggestions would be good )

Also need some ideas about the homelab but I'll put that in right section

Something like this ... w/psu + gpu + SSD although the case does look a bit big and it could use a 120mm fan up front.

https://www.scan.co.uk/products/silverstone-sst-ps16b-mini-tower-computer-chassis-microatx-mini-itx120mm-fan1x-audio-1x-mic-2x-usb-3

SilverStone SST-PS16B Mini Tower Computer Case £54.98

PS16

Aimed at users with high demand for an affordable Micro-ATX chassis with clean interior and flexible assembly, SilverStone created the Precision Series PS16, which sports features such as dual USB 3.0 ports, removable fan / PSU filters and CPU back plate cutout are all standard in this chassis...

www.silverstonetek.com

Box Ltd

MSI PRO B660M-A WIFI DDR4 £139.99

PRO B660M-A WIFI DDR4 Motherboard M-ATX - Intel 12th Gen Processors

The PRO B660M-A WIFI DDR4 is a business-oriented micro-ATX motherboard featuring the latest Intel B660 chipset with Core Boost, Memory Boost, M.2 Shield Frozr, 2.5G LAN, Lightning Gen4

www.msi.com

https://www.box.co.uk/BX8071512400F-Intel-Core-i5-12400F-12th-Gen-Desktop-Pr_4094468.html
Intel Core i5-12400F £164.76

https://www.awd-it.co.uk/components...rformance-tower-intel-amd-cpu-air-cooler.html
DeepCool AK400 Air Cooler £29.99

AK400 - DeepCool

The DeepCool AK400 is a highly compatible CPU cooler featuring a classic four heat pipe tower layout with a unique matrix fin design and a high-performance FDB fan that delivers excellent heat dissipation and extremely low noise levels. - DeepCool was founded with the mission of providing...

global.deepcool.com

https://www.ebuyer.com/1265314-kingston-fury-beast-16gb-2-x-8gb-3200mhz-ddr4-ram-black-kf432c16bbk2-16
Kingston FURY Beast DDR4 3200MHz 16GB (2x8GB) CL16 £61.62

 

[phill]

It seems to be kind of funny that way, all 120mm/240mm stuff but barely any 140mm/280mm stuff, I find it a little strange....

But still, trying to do it kind of cheaply, I don't really see the point in spending out £250 on a case Found a Fractial Design case that I like the look of and hopefully it's big enough for what I'd like to put in it (basics really to be honest, AIO, 3070 possibly and a good ATX PSU... Would be perfect for just having a go... As for the Impact, I get what your saying, I've been keeping an eye with it on Ebay for cheaper prices as brand new is a little OTT... Saw one a few weeks ago which I passed up on (was that and a 9900KS and a 2TB NVME as well, got a deal on the three) but decided nope, networking kit instead! lol

 

[Greenslade]

I have just seen this
Retro Windows XP PC,Athlon XP 2400,2GB Ram,Floppy,80GB HDD,New Coolermaster Case £70 make an offer.
I have asked the seller if it defnetly works, after the one i have to send back did not work when the seller said it did.
This desktop has been built into a new / old stock Coolermaster case to make a very nice Windows XP SP3 PC. The operating system has a totally clean driver list and works perfectly. The PC has an Athon XP 2400 CPU, Soundcard, 2GB Ram, working and tested floppy and a 80GB HDD.”It looks very clean inside there wherether it woks is another thing. If i go the.This looks like it is new.What do you think of Cooler Master.

 

[68Olds]

Greenslade, ask the seller if he can provide you a picture of the power supply label. It is a newer unit because I can see the 24 pin (psu) to 20 pin (mobo) adapter. You want to see the make, model, watts, and ratings for +5 volts.