M.2 PCIe 5.0 SSDs Set to Increase to 25 mm in Width, Might Not Fit Older Motherboards

[TheLostSwede]

NVMe SSDs based on the M.2 form factor come in several different lengths today, ranging from 30 to 110 mm, although the 30 mm drives are rare and the 110 mm drives have so far been reserved for the server space. However, they've all had one thing in common, the 22 mm width, as otherwise there might be issues in terms of fitting the drives, especially in notebooks. However, it appears that the PCI-SIG snuck in a wider, 25 mm option for M.2 SDDs at the end of 2020, but seemingly forgot to mention it to anyone. The only reason we even noticed, was because Gigabyte listed its upcoming X670 and X670E motherboards as having support for 25110 SSD's, where you'd expect to see support for 2280 or 22110 drives.

An extra 3 mm in width might not sound like much, but many M.2 drives seem to be somewhat space constrained, mainly with regards to the passive components and the power regulation. It also seems like this is in preparation for PCIe 5.0 NVMe drives, where the host controller is expected to run hotter, even though it might not be as bad as initially expected. Regardless, it seems like motherboard makers are now making space for this slightly wider M.2 form factor, as well as implementing suitable cooling solutions to match. Whether we'll see drives using this slightly wider form factor or not, is still up in the air and one reason why the SSD manufacturers might choose not to go wider, is because new drives might not fit in older motherboards and laptops, if the clearance is too small.



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[AnarchoPrimitiv]

"old motherboards"? So far, the only motherboards with PCIe 5.0 storage will be X670E/X670/B650.... I don't think it'd be too common for someone to buy a 5.0 drive in order to run it on an old mobo

 

[dj-electric]

"old motherboards"? So far, the only motherboards with PCIe 5.0 storage will be X670E/X670/B650.... I don't think it'd be too common for someone to buy a 5.0 drive in order to run it on an old mobo

You know, these things are backwards compatible. It is very likely people will buy them and use them with PCIE 4.0 and 3.0 platforms

 

[TheLostSwede]

"old motherboards"? So far, the only motherboards with PCIe 5.0 storage will be X670E/X670/B650.... I don't think it'd be too common for someone to buy a 5.0 drive in order to run it on an old mobo

That might well be the case, but you know how paranoid the PC industry is about moving to a new form factor or a new interface at times.

 

[DrCR]

Am I the only one not a particular fan of the gum stick form factor outside of laptops and micro PCs? Its ubiquity feels like, say, if SO-DIMM became the norm.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Am I the only one not a particular fan of the gum stick form factor outside of laptops and micro PCs? Its ubiquity feels like, say, if SO-DIMM became the norm.

What would you suggest instead?
U.2 never took off and this is much cheaper, both in terms of connectors and the drives themselves.
Also no need for any cables to connect with.

Technically we need a new PC form factor, where the M.2 drives get a dedicated place on the motherboard, but that's unlikely to happen.

 

[DrCR]

A suggestion would be too strong a word for my non-expert thoughts, but as to what I would have preferred seeing for desktops in an alternate universe, if not going with the 2.5” form factor for drives, then simply PCIe cards like any normal expansion. I’d presume this is ultimately the route to take anyway for some situations e.g. want a multiplicity of drives without having to settle with SATA.

 

[TheLostSwede]

A suggestion would be too strong a word for my non-expert thoughts, but as to what I would have preferred seeing for desktops in an alternate universe, if not going with the 2.5” form factor for drives, then simply PCIe cards like any normal expansion. I’d presume this is ultimately the route to take anyway for some situations e.g. want a multiplicity of drives without having to settle with SATA.

Several motherboards already come with expansion cards that add at least a pair of M.2 slots, so yes, it's one route to take.
However, it adds the additional cost of the expansion card, over just plonking the M.2 slots straight on the motherboard.

 

[Chaitanya]

What would you suggest instead?
U.2 never took off and this is much cheaper, both in terms of connectors and the drives themselves.
Also no need for any cables to connect with.

Technically we need a new PC form factor, where the M.2 drives get a dedicated place on the motherboard, but that's unlikely to happen.

Sata express was DoA and U.2 seems to have found its niche in enterprise(much like SCSI and SAS) so consumer market is stuck with either M.2 or Sata.

 

[Courier 6]

I´m pretty sure somebody will come up with an adapter, unless it´s impossible

 

[TheLostSwede]

I´m pretty sure somebody will come up with an adapter, unless it´s impossible

Well, the drives are 1.5mm wider on each side, so it related to physical space, not the M.2 interface, as it remains exactly the same.

 

[erocker]

Am I the only one not a particular fan of the gum stick form factor outside of laptops and micro PCs? Its ubiquity feels like, say, if SO-DIMM became the norm.

I'd just rather they were slotted like ram. Seems it would be better for space/cooling.

 

[Tek-Check]

You know, these things are backwards compatible. It is very likely people will buy them and use them with PCIE 4.0 and 3.0 platforms

Why would anyone ever buy super expensive 5.0 NVMe drive and use it in older motherboards that do not support the standard? Sounds insane to me.

 

[AnarchoPrimitiv]

You know, these things are backwards compatible. It is very likely people will buy them and use them with PCIE 4.0 and 3.0 platforms

Yeah, of course they're backward compatible, but do you honestly think it's "very likely" someone will spend the greatly increased cost for a PCIe 5.0 drive just so they can see absolutely zero benefit from it? Especially when they could've bought a 3.0/4.0 drive for far less... I really do not think that's "very likely"...

Quick survey, who here has purchased a PCIe 4.0 drive just to use on a 3.0 capable system WHILE having absolutely zero plans to upgrade to a 4.0 capable motherboard sometime in the future?

On another note, I'd like to see a SATAIV release with at least 12Gb/s (basically subsuming the place of SAS). There's still a market for cheap SATA SSDs, and this would extend the life of SATA

 

[Courier 6]

Well, the drives are 1.5mm wider on each side, so it related to physical space, not the M.2 interface, as it remains exactly the same.

well, you know how this works, if there is a demand for it, somebody will make it

 

[Tek-Check]

Quick survey, who here has purchased a PCIe 4.0 drive just to use on a 3.0 capable system WHILE having absolutely zero plans to upgrade to a 4.0 capable motherboard sometime in the future?

I can see only one scenario. I got 5.0 NVMe drive for free and my current system is 4.0 or 3.0. Use the drive with whatever I have, if it can be slotted in. Any other swcenario is completely silly. As you said, zero benefits.

On another note, I'd like to see a SATAIV release with at least 12Gb/s (basically subsuming the place of SAS). There's still a market for cheap SATA SSDs, and this would extend the life of SATA

SATA does need an overhaul or die. Agreed.

 

[P4-630]

The motherboard I get next month (Aorus Master) can fit 5 M.2's, 3 longer M.2's and 2 size we have now.

 

[regs]

Why would anyone ever buy super expensive 5.0 NVMe drive and use it in older motherboards that do not support the standard? Sounds insane to me.

Why would anyone use 25110 or 22110 for home or business purpose? It's solely for enterprise and datacenters. So surely they will have all up-to-date hardware. And usually it's not even motherboards, but special adapters that fits several SSDs.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Why would anyone use 25110 or 20110 for home or business purpose? It's solely for enterprise and datacenters. So surely they will have all up-to-date hardware. And usually it's not even motherboards, but special adapters that fits several SSDs.

How do you know that we can't expect 110 mm long SSDs for consumer drives in the future? Most motherboards support at least one.
Right now the only 110 mm long drives do indeed appear to be for enterprise use, but that might very well change in the future.

 

[Chrispy_]

25mm doesn't seem wide enough to lay NAND chips side-by-side in two columns, so what does this achieve?

The extra length makes sense for very obvious reasons, but are PCIe 5.0 SSD controllers going to be so hot that heasinks have to get wider? If that's the case, the design of the heatsinks is the low-hanging fruit; most of them are just cheap slabs of aluminium that lack proper fins and have pitifully low surface area.

 

[xrobwx71]

Yeah, of course they're backward compatible, but do you honestly think it's "very likely" someone will spend the greatly increased cost for a PCIe 5.0 drive just so they can see absolutely zero benefit from it? Especially when they could've bought a 3.0/4.0 drive for far less... I really do not think that's "very likely"...

Quick survey, who here has purchased a PCIe 4.0 drive just to use on a 3.0 capable system WHILE having absolutely zero plans to upgrade to a 4.0 capable motherboard sometime in the future?

On another note, I'd like to see a SATAIV release with at least 12Gb/s (basically subsuming the place of SAS). There's still a market for cheap SATA SSDs, and this would extend the life of SATA

Yes it is likely if you look at it as time moves forward. It's not a static situation. Prices will drop, sales will pop up. Such was the case for me when I purchased a Samsung 980 Pro.

I had a plan to use it in my next build.

 

[eidairaman1]

"old motherboards"? So far, the only motherboards with PCIe 5.0 storage will be X670E/X670/B650.... I don't think it'd be too common for someone to buy a 5.0 drive in order to run it on an old mobo

People will Try, long live SATA

25mm doesn't seem wide enough to lay NAND chips side-by-side in two columns, so what does this achieve?

The extra length makes sense for very obvious reasons, but are PCIe 5.0 SSD controllers going to be so hot that heasinks have to get wider? If that's the case, the design of the heatsinks is the low-hanging fruit; most of them are just cheap slabs of aluminium that lack proper fins and have pitifully low surface area.

This is why m.2 is pointless really.

 

[trsttte]

Sata express was DoA and U.2 seems to have found its niche in enterprise(much like SCSI and SAS) so consumer market is stuck with either M.2 or Sata.

For the consumer market U.2 is not cost effective, the cables are expensive and the drives itself are also more expensive (since consumers wil want lower capacities it would lead to a lot of wasted materials and space)

Why would anyone ever buy super expensive 5.0 NVMe drive and use it in older motherboards that do not support the standard? Sounds insane to me.

Quick survey, who here has purchased a PCIe 4.0 drive just to use on a 3.0 capable system WHILE having absolutely zero plans to upgrade to a 4.0 capable motherboard sometime in the future?

I did, for one gen4 drives are already getting to price parity with good gen3 drives (there's much cheaper gen3 drives but not the kind i'd buy), they bring newer and more reliable nand with more endurance, and even connected to a gen3 slot they still offer more IOPS, better latencies, etc. They just don't achieve that 7000mb/s or whatever speed on a gen3 but they still have advantages.

25mm doesn't seem wide enough to lay NAND chips side-by-side in two columns, so what does this achieve?

The extra length makes sense for very obvious reasons, but are PCIe 5.0 SSD controllers going to be so hot that heasinks have to get wider? If that's the case, the design of the heatsinks is the low-hanging fruit; most of them are just cheap slabs of aluminium that lack proper fins and have pitifully low surface area.

Maybe they need the space for more capacitors? If power consumption will increase, so will the size dedicated to backup power for when the systems shutdowns and the controller needs to finish things up.

 

[TheLostSwede]

For the consumer market U.2 is not cost effective, the cables are expensive and the drives itself are also more expensive (since consumers wil want lower capacities it would lead to a lot of wasted materials and space)

$10 https://www.amazon.com/SFF-8643-CableCreation-Internal-Female-Connector，1-5FT/dp/B07D8NCSXM/
So around twice that of a SATA cable at retail...

 

[trsttte]

$10 https://www.amazon.com/SFF-8643-CableCreation-Internal-Female-Connector，1-5FT/dp/B07D8NCSXM/
So around twice that of a SATA cable at retail...

Not twice, more like 5 to 10 times https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Cable-Locking-Latch-black/dp/B009GUX660/ (granted that one included power, but that also would be another extra thing to buy)