AMD RDNA 3 GPUs to Support DisplayPort 2.0 UHBR 20 Standard

[zlobby]

According to RTINGS it's not PWM, it's brightness fluctuation at 8ms interval, the same as panel refresh rate.

Which to me is even worse because typical PWM freqs are higher than panel's refreah rate.

What content is available in 8k?!

Trading charts for one. Very handy because the TV is an IPS one i.e., no burn-in, plus I can fit tons of info on it. And when I want to watch a movie I just switch to another input.

It's not my main display for trading, though. I have a dedicated setup for that. It's just a nice addition if I need some in-depth technical analysis.

 

[Chomiq]

Which to me is even worse because typical PWM freqs are higher than panel's refreah rate.

The LG 48 C1 doesn't use Pulse Width Modulation (PWM). There's a slight dip in brightness every 8ms, which coincides with the 120Hz refresh rate, and it's not noticeable either.

 

[kapone32]

The return of multi GPU is going to be a rocky one. unless it is baked into the API with 0 effort on the dev's end support is going to be abysmal.

Just like how Polaris was is what I am talking about. With Polaris you could force Multi GPU on any Game using Radeon Software.

 

[zlobby]

Not noticeable for one person doesn't mean not noticeable by all.

 

[kapone32]

1440P OLED would be nice at 165Hz+with Freesync Premium. 4K is nice but better for TVs.

 

[mechtech]

Hopefully has a good media engine and full 10-bit colour support.

with TSMC saying a 20% price increase and 15%?? The year before I’m guessing these will be 35% more msrp over last gen???

 

[zlobby]

Hopefully has a good media engine and full 10-bit colour support.

with TSMC saying a 20% price increase and 15%?? The year before I’m guessing these will be 35% more msrp over last gen???

I wouldn't mind a proper 12-bit support, even with a Dolby Vision license. Also, all modern codecs support is a must.

 

[Mussels]

Forget 16K or even 8K monitors - I'm just excited that we'll get 5K ultrawide monitors with >75Hz refresh!

Do you know how annoyed i get, when my budget 4K 60hz monitor can do 1440p 144Hz, but cant do 4K 73Hz because the DP and HDMI connections cant keep up?

Technically its a 4K 144hz capable panel. It just cant do both because somehow, SOMEHOW DP and HDMI tech are just that far behind the panel tech :/

Someone just make a 16:10 format monitor. Great to see laptops moving away from the god awful 16:9 garbage but desktop screens still stuck in the past. I want 4096 x 2400 32" OLED monitor with HDR10+, 120Hz, 100% AdobeRGB, 80% REC.2020, DP2.0, HDMI2.1, USB-C

16:10 is long dead

 

[Minus Infinity]

Pretty sure Sony And Phillips do.

Gosh I haven't seen a Sony monitor advertised in Australia for ages. If they exist they are certainly keeping it secret. Philips also are a tiny player since pulling out of the TV market here. Knowing Sony whatever they offer will be well over the money.

Do you know how annoyed i get, when my budget 4K 60hz monitor can do 1440p 144Hz, but cant do 4K 73Hz because the DP and HDMI connections cant keep up?

Technically its a 4K 144hz capable panel. It just cant do both because somehow, SOMEHOW DP and HDMI tech are just that far behind the panel tech :/




16:10 is long dead

What you like those rubbish curved 21:9 monitors I guess. Anyway how you say 16:10 is dead when it's clearly what most laptop makers are going to *thank god).

 

[Mussels]

Gosh I haven't seen a Sony monitor advertised in Australia for ages. If they exist they are certainly keeping it secret. Philips also are a tiny player since pulling out of the TV market here. Knowing Sony whatever they offer will be well over the money.


What you like those rubbish curved 21:9 monitors I guess. Anyway how you say 16:10 is dead when it's clearly what most laptop makers are going to *thank god).

Nah i'm 16:9 all over the place, i think utlrawides are an affront to god - and i'm an atheist.

16:9 was chosen as the defacto standard long ago - i've lived through 4:3, 5:4, 16:10 and 16:9 on desktops - and when games all screw over anyone using anything other than 16:9, i'll happily stick to it.

From Vert- instead of Hor+, to outright blocking anything other than 16:9 any game with a competitive scene locks everyone to the one aspect ratio, or punishes you if you force the issue by reducing what you see. If you're in some niche market where you want an alternate, non-standard aspect ratio then go ahead and use it - but it's an old standard that just wont be easily available, and never will be again.

 

[MentalAcetylide]

8K monitors are completely useless, so 16k don't even bother.

Yeah, about a year ago I tried explaining this to a friend who was all excited to be playing his Xbox on an 8k TV & thinking that he was gaming at that resolution. I told him no, its just being scaled up and that none of the games that were out(for PC or consoles) are made for 8k resolution. The most he accomplished by purchasing a TV like that is maybe future proofing. Other than that, he just wasted a lot of money.

I really don't see the point in going beyond 4k resolution when it comes to home use(gaming, productivity, 3D apps, etc.). You eventually reach a point where you get diminishing returns from going higher & higher in resolution for screens that are going to be only a few feet away from your face.

The return of multi GPU is going to be a rocky one. unless it is baked into the API with 0 effort on the dev's end support is going to be abysmal.

I honestly don't think multi-GPU is ever going to return; especially when it comes to the newer generation of power-hungry GPUs. I currently have a 1600-watt PSU for my two GPUs, and given the current trend, we'll be needing 2,000+ watt PSUs to run a multi-GPU system for rendering.

Nah i'm 16:9 all over the place, i think utlrawides are an affront to god - and i'm an atheist.

16:9 was chosen as the defacto standard long ago - i've lived through 4:3, 5:4, 16:10 and 16:9 on desktops - and when games all screw over anyone using anything other than 16:9, i'll happily stick to it.

From Vert- instead of Hor+, to outright blocking anything other than 16:9 any game with a competitive scene locks everyone to the one aspect ratio, or punishes you if you force the issue by reducing what you see. If you're in some niche market where you want an alternate, non-standard aspect ratio then go ahead and use it - but it's an old standard that just wont be easily available, and never will be again.

Imo, the only real use I see for ultra-wide monitors is for running flight simulators or games that benefit from having a wider view.

 

[Mussels]

Imo, the only real use I see for ultra-wide monitors is for running flight simulators or games that benefit from having a wider view.

With rare exceptions you dont actually get a wider view - you get a narrower one.

Instead of adding more horizontal view, they're scaling it up to a higher 16:9 resolution and cropping the vertical... let me go find some of the example photos or videos, as some people understand it better from those

Spoiler tags for others to save the thread

Spoiler

These are not my images, but examples from online:

1. How it SHOULD work, ghost recon wildlands doing vert+ and adding more vertical view
16:9 16:10 (more mountain visible)

2. Example of 16:10 vert- with someones lovely MSpaint writing on top. The source page talks about unreal engine but didnt specify which game, specifically
The big key here is notice how much more zoomed in the image is in the default Vert-, the massive FOV change and fisheye effect is what triggers motion sickness for a lot of people

This is the defaut for almost all competitive games, since they dont want anyone to have an 'advantage' (and it's cheap lazy coding to force one aspect ratio)

And heres elden ring, that only works at 16:9 - 16:10 displays give you black bars top and bottom
welcome to the 2022 solution to the aspect ratio dilemma, just add black bars!

 

[MentalAcetylide]

With rare exceptions you dont actually get a wider view - you get a narrower one.

Instead of adding more horizontal view, they're scaling it up to a higher 16:9 resolution and cropping the vertical... let me go find some of the example photos or videos, as some people understand it better from those

Spoiler tags for others to save the thread

Spoiler

These are not my images, but examples from online:

1. How it SHOULD work, ghost recon wildlands doing vert+ and adding more vertical view


2. Example of 16:10 vert- with someones lovely MSpaint writing on top. The source page talks about unreal engine but didnt specify which game, specifically
The big key here is notice how much more zoomed in the image is in the default Vert-, the massive FOV change and fisheye effect is what triggers motion sickness for a lot of people

This is the defaut for almost all competitive games, since they dont want anyone to have an 'advantage' (and it's cheap lazy coding to force one aspect ratio)

Which is another reason why I would avoid ultra-widescreen monitors. Not everything is going to display as it should on those things compared to the more common 1080p, 1440p, 2160p resolution panels.
Needless to say, it still boggles my mind how some people still want to use these kinds of monitors for everyday web surfing or office productivity. It would drive me crazy trying to work in Excel on one of those curved ultra-wides.

 

[Mussels]

Which is another reason why I would avoid ultra-widescreen monitors. Not everything is going to display as it should on those things compared to the more common 1080p, 1440p, 2160p resolution panels.
Needless to say, it still boggles my mind how some people still want to use these kinds of monitors for everyday web surfing or office productivity. It would drive me crazy trying to work in Excel on one of those curved ultra-wides.

The one type i genuinely liked was ultrawides that were literally just two 1440p panels side by side, so it was effectively a dual monitor setup without any bezels

At least with that you still have 2560x1440 centered with bars on the sides, or if you use 2D software or PIP modes you can treat it as two seperate displays

 

[Ron-backal]

Someone just make a 16:10 format monitor. Great to see laptops moving away from the god awful 16:9 garbage but desktop screens still stuck in the past. I want 4096 x 2400 32" OLED monitor with HDR10+, 120Hz, 100% AdobeRGB, 80% REC.2020, DP2.0, HDMI2.1, USB-C

Thats so right, would be perfect! And would be great with high color accuracy. I got a Eizo CS2740, and I love the adobe RGB color on my background photo, but yes its only 60 hz for sure but once you see the colors pop out its hard to go back to sRGB monitors

Problem with OLED is the PWM. Very few displays (that I know of) tend to go for DC, which alone introduces problems on its own.

I for one prefer non-PWM even at the price of non-infinite contrast ratio.

Hi zlobby, can you please explain what is PWM and how does it affect computer/monitor performance? In google I found something about pulse width modulation, thats it?

 

[zlobby]

Thats so right, would be perfect! And would be great with high color accuracy. I got a Eizo CS2740, and I love the adobe RGB color on my background photo, but yes its only 60 hz for sure but once you see the colors pop out its hard to go back to sRGB monitors


Hi zlobby, can you please explain what is PWM and how does it affect computer/monitor performance? In google I found something about pulse width modulation, thats it?

Hi @Ron-backal

Talk about necrophilia, eh? Anyway, yes. I am talking about pulse-width modulation.
It doesn't affect monitor or computer performance but it can scramble your eyes and brain if you are sensitive to this.

 

[Space Lynx]

Problem with OLED is the PWM. Very few displays (that I know of) tend to go for DC, which alone introduces problems on its own.

I for one prefer non-PWM even at the price of non-infinite contrast ratio.

How is it PWM on OLED? I thought in OLED each pixel is it's own organic thing and produces its own light? So even if PWM was there, it was be at the individual pixel level right? Not at the traditional level of "light bulbs flashing really fast" on traditional non-OLED monitors...

I remember those old Korean 1440p panels from like 2012-2014 had PWM flicker, and they did give me a headache.

Do you think OLED would give me a headache as well, or is the PWM flicker different?

 

[zlobby]

Do you think OLED would give me a headache as well, or is the PWM flicker different?

I know for sure that they give me a headache. From this year's top-tier smartphones to TV and monitors. No matter the frequency they all give me the nasty.
And no, I don't have a bias here. I can easily 'see' and feel which screen is PWM in a blind test. I've tried it on occasions with friends and across organizations. It's a nightmare!

 

[Space Lynx]

I know for sure that they give me a headache. From this year's top-tier smartphones to TV and monitors. No matter the frequency they all give me the nasty.
And no, I don't have a bias here. I can easily 'see' and feel which screen is PWM in a blind test. I've tried it on occasions with friends and across organizations. It's a nightmare!

When you view a website in Dark Mode, like Ars Technica, if you read in article in Dark Mode for like 2-4 minutes, when you look away from the screen do you "blink lines"? This happens to me, and I think all my screens are PWM, so I have no way to test it at the moment. (my smartphone is OLED and my work laptop is cheap screen, so probably is PWM)

I'm really glad I stumbled on this article... I may have to go for a different monitor than I was expecting, I'm really sensitive to PWM I think.

 

[zlobby]

When you view a website in Dark Mode, like Ars Technica, if you read in article in Dark Mode for like 2-4 minutes, when you look away from the screen do you "blink lines"? This happens to me, and I think all my screens are PWM, so I have no way to test it at the moment. (my smartphone is OLED and my work laptop is cheap screen, so probably is PWM)

I'm really glad I stumbled on this article... I may have to go for a different monitor than I was expecting, I'm really sensitive to PWM I think.

Yes! If you see the dreaded diagonal-ish lines that's a dead giveaway! And there is the 'pencil test', too. Strobing is pretty evident.

 

[Space Lynx]

Yes! If you see the dreaded diagonal-ish lines that's a dead giveaway! And there is the 'pencil test', too. Strobing is pretty evident.

Fuck. I need a new phone, new work laptop, and can no longer live my fantasy of OLED out.

That is exactly the problem I have, diagnol lines get burned into my retina even when I close my eyes they are still there. It doesn't happen every single time, but it happens frequently enough to cause me concern.

Now I need to figure out which monitors don't have PWM. Does this one? amazon.com/MSI-Compatible-Refresh-Optix-MAG274QRX/dp/B09PF7Z1HD/

I think this is the one I will get now if you can figure out a way to confirm if it has PWM or not. Rtings maybe will tell me... I think rtings is a paywall website these days though? last I checked it said I had like 1 review left that I could look at... so eh

 

[zlobby]

Fuck. I need a new phone, new work laptop, and can no longer live my fantasy of OLED out.

That is exactly the problem I have, diagnol lines get burned into my retina even when I close my eyes they are still there. It doesn't happen every single time, but it happens frequently enough to cause me concern.

Now I need to figure out which monitors don't have PWM. Does this one? amazon.com/MSI-Compatible-Refresh-Optix-MAG274QRX/dp/B09PF7Z1HD/

I think this is the one I will get now if you can figure out a way to confirm if it has PWM or not. Rtings maybe will tell me... I think rtings is a paywall website these days though? last I checked it said I had like 1 review left that I could look at... so eh

Welcome to the club!

The MSI monitor you quoted should NOT use PWM. That are its specs even according to Rtings.
Thing is, IPS can use PWM but it can also go without it. OLED are way more difficult to be found with non-PWM (DC) dimming.

And yes, Rtings went a bit downhill lately but they are a good starting point. You may also want to check blurbusters.com

 

[Ron-backal]

Hi @Ron-backal

Talk about necrophilia, eh? Anyway, yes. I am talking about pulse-width modulation.
It doesn't affect monitor or computer performance but it can scramble your eyes and brain if you are sensitive to this.

Oh really?? So actually it is better to use LCD without PWM than OLED for your eyes health? I aþ sensitive in my eyes so its relevant.
And yes this is crazy my Eizo doesn't work with Netflix! Probably because its old and uses HDCP 2.2 versus the new 2.3

 

[zlobby]

Oh really?? So actually it is better to use LCD without PWM than OLED for your eyes health? I aþ sensitive in my eyes so its relevant.
And yes this is crazy my Eizo doesn't work with Netflix! Probably because its old and uses HDCP 2.2 versus the new 2.3

Yep. While OLED has many advantages in image quality, it is plagued by PWM dimming and burn-in, even in 2022. That's just the nature of the beast. The alternative DC dimming in OLED is rare and has its own problems.

If you don't care much about contrast, viewing angles and rich colors (all relative ofc), the LCD variants are the answer.

As for the HDCP, some vendors offer firmware updates to 2.3

 

[Ron-backal]

Yep. While OLED has many advantages in image quality, it is plagued by PWM dimming and burn-in, even in 2022. That's just the nature of the beast. The alternative DC dimming in OLED is rare and has its own problems.

If you don't care much about contrast, viewing angles and rich colors (all relative ofc), the LCD variants are the answer.

As for the HDCP, some vendors offer firmware updates to 2.3

Oh that sounds nice I should look in Eizo website. What kind of monitor you use?