PC Components with High Power Draw an Issue for an Overwhelming Majority of Users: Survey

[Zareek]

If the current USA administration REALLY cared about the environment (like they claim they do), they would have offered tax incentives or some other incentive to companies to permanently implement work from home for employees with computers that worked from home during the whole Covid scenario.

While I'd love to see them pass some laws to incentivize work from home, if you believe the current administration has the power to just do that, then you do not understand how the US government is supposed to work. If a majority of the House and 60% of the Senate was controlled by people who agree with that, then yes, it would be easy to make it happen. With the current balance of power, it just isn't probable. The US government is badly broken, with two polar opposite governing mentalities that refuse to meet in the middle for the better good. Unless they are basically forced to do so. Couple that with the fact that most of the people elected, took their seats via campaigns funded by corporations and special interests. What we have is a big ole barely functional mess that is mostly run by corporations and special interest groups!

Until we get the money and people following only party lines out of the federal government, it will continue to be a broken mess.

 

[zlobby]

I’m already doing the lords work with energy efficient, it’s both cause I’m cheap and because I don’t want to waste it.

My 4000sq ft home uses less energy to heat, cool, and make hot water than a trailer house thanks to geothermal heat pumps and a superheat loop. I’m installing a new water heater/storage tank to both have enough hot water and to increase the systems efficiency.

It all just takes money.

The soltion, ladies and gentlemen:

Although I too support sustainable and renewable energy sources, even though they usually cost more. Well, in the long run the TCO is less but few people care to do the math, and many can't afford the initial investment anyway. Not many countries support financially such private investments.

Also, heat pumps deplete the soil's 'thermal capacity' for 10 to 15 years.

While I'd love to see them pass some laws to incentivize work from home, if you believe the current administration has the power to just do that, then you do not understand how the US government is supposed to work. If a majority of the House and 60% of the Senate was controlled by people who agree with that, then yes, it would be easy to make it happen. With the current balance of power, it just isn't probable. The US government is badly broken, with two polar opposite governing mentalities that refuse to meet in the middle for the better good. Unless they are basically forced to do so. Couple that with the fact that most of the people elected, took their seats via campaigns funded by corporations and special interests. What we have is a big ole barely functional mess that is mostly run by corporations and special interest groups!

Until we get the money and people following only party lines out of the federal government, it will continue to be a broken mess.

By the people, for the people! [Eagle!]

 

[looniam]

The soltion, ladies and gentlemen:

thats usually the way it goes. (using a broad brush!) consider similar instances in "bringing the advancements of science to the masses". the rich/well to do had water, electric, cars, phones, PCs, gaming consoles, cable . .ect long before those were affordable/available to the masses.


the trick is to get them to pay the early adopters' tax, rich people can have their uses.

 

[onemanhitsquad]

"Also, heat pumps deplete the soil's 'thermal capacity' for 10 to 15 years."

what?

 

[Steevo]

"Also, heat pumps deplete the soil's 'thermal capacity' for 10 to 15 years."

what?

My thought as well, it warms the ground in the summer when heat is being pumped out, then pulls the heat from the ground in the winter when it’s cold out.

the biggest barrier to its efficiency is how much moisture there is in the soil, so watering our trees more, the rain etc… and frost have more to do with it than anything.

Keep pressure on the loop to keep it expanded against soil compaction and expansion, keep the loop full and the only issue is pump replacement every 10 years or so. But they make additives for that so they last longer and the pressure helps prevent cavitation damage (it’s what killed the last 2). Pumps are relatively cheap, and even at -15F loop temp it still pulls almost 40K BTUs of heat from it for less than it costs to run a normal AC unit.

 

[onemanhitsquad]

My thought as well, it warms the ground in the summer when heat is being pumped out, then pulls the heat from the ground in the winter when it’s cold out.

the biggest barrier to its efficiency is how much moisture there is in the soil, so watering our trees more, the rain etc… and frost have more to do with it than anything.

Keep pressure on the loop to keep it expanded against soil compaction and expansion, keep the loop full and the only issue is pump replacement every 10 years or so. But they make additives for that so they last longer and the pressure helps prevent cavitation damage (it’s what killed the last 2). Pumps are relatively cheap, and even at -15F loop temp it still pulls almost 40K BTUs of heat from it for less than it costs to run a normal AC unit.

I have been in the HVAC industry for 30 years...his statement is news to me

 

[Steevo]

I have been in the HVAC industry for 30 years...his statement is news to me

My system was installed in the late 90s when people figured out the great cheap electric was a lie (built with and wired for 240V resistive heat), since then it's had a new compressor and ground loop pumps changed but that's all. I almost want to build a variac drive for the Copeland compressor and fan.


Solar for it is stupid expensive since I need at least 2 phase and 60 amps if the boost heat is needed.

 

[caroline!]

During winter I use double pants+sweaters and if it's too hot a crop-top and shorts, I don't have an air conditioner and let in as much natural light as possible, a dumb mirror aimed properly at my window basically lights up as much as a 100W light bulb as the light bounces off the hospital white paint my ceiling and walls are covered in.

I'm the true energy efficient user here.

 

[zlobby]

"Also, heat pumps deplete the soil's 'thermal capacity' for 10 to 15 years."

what?

Check 'thermal depletion' on the web. Mostly research papers come out (you don't expect your local reseller to tell you this, right).

Although it is a problem if you only use it for a one-way heat transfer i.e., only heating or only cooling. I haven't read decent papers on how severe the depletion is with mixed cycles.

 

[eidairaman1]

PC components draw more power generation over generation because reviewers let the manufacturers of those components get away with it, fixating with performances without being critical to the high power draws

Yup. And People Complained about the 290/X then but praised the 980 which was hotter and drew more, hypocrites.

 

[AlwaysHope]

Lol what?!? Are people running HEDT 24-7 and expecting low power? That’s like getting a 1ton 4x4 pickup truck and expecting 30 mpg with the 6L v8.

Wait till you have a couple kids and an electric dryer lol. I use about a MW/hr a month (1000kw.hrs). My pc is negligible in that total amount. But I turn it on when I use it and shut it down when done with it. So it typically runs 0-4hours a day. Weekends 0-12hrs depending on weather and chores and kids and commitments.

Good point. Electricity consumption & financial resources needed to sustain it is only a relative concept.

In my part of the world, all the states electricity is generated via hydro, so none of this man made climate change alarmism is relevant here.
Besides that, it's winter down here in Australia & a PC gaming system with "significant" electricity consumption is a bonus as one does not need to turn on heating in the room!

 

[Zareek]

By the people, for the people! [Eagle!]

It was supposed to be, and it was until big business dug it's dirty paws into it. Now it is By the people, for the big businesses! [Dollar Bill!]

 

[wolf]

While I broadly agree with the consensus of the poll, I think the outcome is more of a given / skewed when one option is no, and 4 options are yes.

Again the outcome may have been the same, but yes or no with a little supporting text would have sufficed.

 

[watzupken]

PC components with high power draw poses a lot of problems for end users, not just an increase in power/ utility bill. For instance,
1. They need more elaborate cooling, which increases cost and may not fit in some small case
2. You need to get a high airflow case, which most older casing won't cut it, unless you don't mind it becoming an oven
3. You need a good quality high power PSU, again, additional cost and heat
4. Air conditioning becomes a must when gaming or loading the system, unless you live in a cold country. As it stands, my current rig with a RTX 3080 is capable of heating up my room quite a fair bit even after a short gaming session. I've recorded 1 degree Celsius increase in room temp in a span of around 30 mins. 1 degree may not sound a lot, but you can surely feel it when the ambient temp is high. Even with the A/C on, I've observed room temp creeping up slowly.

I feel chip companies have gone over their head releasing products just for the sake of performance crown, that they forgotten about end user experience. It is nice to have a bump in performance, but it should not have a drastic draw back. To me, its clear that the cost is great than the benefit itself for most people, other than hardware enthusiasts.

 

[DoLlyBirD]

Honestly, when corporations and the planets richest people tell you as an ordinary person who probably earns 30k a year, to not buy high end computer parts or put your heating on in winter, wear 2 jumpers etc then you know you are being dry shafted, these very people swan about in private jets, have multiple homes dependent on the time of year, and likely contribute many more times your carbon footprint a day, but yes, my 500w PC and having warm water and the necessities is contributing to climate change

 

[onemanhitsquad]

Check 'thermal depletion' on the web. Mostly research papers come out (you don't expect your local reseller to tell you this, right).

Although it is a problem if you only use it for a one-way heat transfer i.e., only heating or only cooling. I haven't read decent papers on how severe the depletion is with mixed cycles.

research scientist , like artist , is another term for bum

even given the context of some of the "studies" which are tantamount to "models", this seems to some it up

"Thus, the heat pump impact on its environment becomes negligible as soon as we move
away from more than a few meters of the collector probe"

and since every state in the US offers rebates for the installation of geo heat pumps because of effeciency , and the US regulates the HVAC industry as much as any other nation , I don't think this possible phenomenon is something to be concerned about.

​

 

[Steevo]

Check 'thermal depletion' on the web. Mostly research papers come out (you don't expect your local reseller to tell you this, right).

Although it is a problem if you only use it for a one-way heat transfer i.e., only heating or only cooling. I haven't read decent papers on how severe the depletion is with mixed cycles.

In places where it's warm heat rejection through open loop systems is way more common. In Colorado we had numerous large homes with geothermal using closed loop well systems, where heat was sunk into the water table then extracted for winter.

I am unaware of current generation systems that don't have dual purpose, heating and cooling. If they are made its a stupid investment unless you drill deep enough to pickup actual geothermal heat, and those systems are usually oversized fields of loops to accommodate their continued heat output. In 10 years if the ground is too cold to provide enough heat the system was undersized for the application and adding a second loop would solve the problem.

I have had to learn about these systems as trying to get anyone to work on mine has been like pulling teeth with the housing boom, and lazy installers that just want to sell you a propane furnace, or want to mark up the prices by 200 percent.

 

[hat]

Honestly, when corporations and the planets richest people tell you as an ordinary person who probably earns 30k a year, to not buy high end computer parts or put your heating on in winter, wear 2 jumpers etc then you know you are being dry shafted, these very people swan about in private jets, have multiple homes dependent on the time of year, and likely contribute many more times your carbon footprint a day, but yes, my 500w PC and having warm water and the necessities is contributing to climate change

Nobody's telling you anything. This was simply a piece written up by TPU (certainly nobody flying private jets here) about a poll ran by TPU concerning high power computer components. And the results show that a vast majority of users would rather have cooler, more efficient hardware rather than the hardware we have now, even if it doesn't perform quite as well.

Personally I think it's an effort by all players involved to push their hardware as hard as they can, trying to eke out those last few percent at the cost of absurd power draw and cooling requirements. That said, anyone can run Intel or AMD processors at "stock" without any boosting and have a much more efficient, but less impressive chip. Even the 12900k, an 8+8 core chip, is only a 125w part... at the base frequency of 3.2GHz. Push it to the max and suddenly the power envelope doubles. But everyone wants faster hardware, so...

 

[MarsM4N]

It's a phenomenon called the "rebound effect" and its been observed for close to 100 years where gains in efficiency have ALWAYS been met with higher overall power usage, not less. It can be observed in many other things as well though, consider how despite the ever increasing productivity of the average worker, they never work fewer hours, and in countries like America, many are working more than ever. A large part of it is tied to the capitalist system and goal of perpetual economic expansion. With respect to technology and one of the possible answers to this survey, rebound effect is highlighted as one of the major reasons why technological development will never solve the environmental crisis.

I do not know if the "Rebound Effect Theory" can stand reality, but there where with no question ground breaking advancements made in terms of energy consumption. Just look at LED vs light bulbs, a LED consumes only a fraction of energy. And fuel consumption of cars went also dramaticly down. Heat pumps are also a groundbreaking invention.

The decline in Buying Power is the result of our corrupted financial system. It's a potpourri of thuggery, the abolition of the Gold Standard, Wallstreet gambling, debt money system, which leads to a huge concentration of wealth in just a few hands. Wealth that is used to corrupt the system even more & buy assets and (solid) capital just to make even more profit from the non wealthy. Their system only works because most don't understand How Money Works (and it's designed that way for exactly that reason).

You cant compare GPUs to F1 racing. Those cars are all designed around a strict set of requirements to make it a level playing field for the race. We dont want a level playing field. We want companies to continue to research and improve their products to beat their competitors. This is how industries and products are revolutionized. Competition breeds improvements.

You say a 400 watt GPU is out of touch with a sustainable environment, but your 3090 is no conservationist as it pushes over 400 watts under heavy loads Do you want to rethink your wattage cap we need to put on GPUs?

F1 regulations are in place to get an even playing field & to drive inventions for more efficency, from which the average consumer more or less will also benefit in their products.

Which is exactly what our regulators should do. Set a Efficenty Baseline for GPU's/CPU's. That way you will force these companies to build efficent products.
It worked wonderful for lights, cars, vacuum cleaners, (heat pump) dryer, stand by power reduction, etc. They totally could if they have to.

 

[Nordic]

For me, power consumption has never been an issue, I don't buy a Lamborghini and then complain about the consumption, or a Camaro, or a Ferrari.

If you want to use efficient hardware, you're welcome to do so, but if it's just a 3060, then you know why.

The problem is that there are no Camrys on the market, if I follow your analogy. The 3060 will probably exceed the power draw of the 980 ti, the Ferrari of its time. The 3060 won't even be efficient hardware, only efficient reletive to this generation.

 

[caroline!]

Yup. And People Complained about the 290/X then but praised the 980 which was hotter and drew more, hypocrites.

heh remember those FX 9590 memes?

220W is low compared to what high end CPUs draw nowadays

 

[hs4]

I am reaping the benefits that new nodes bring. I prefer something small and lightweight as long as the performance, quietness, and cost are satisfactory. Ten years ago I used a MicroATX MoBo; five years ago I bought a nano-ITX barebone. Today I buy a 12700H or 6900HS 2-in-1 laptop and use it connected to a docking port via Thunderbolt3. These are faster than the 11900K and can operate almost silently with some tuning.

Power consumption increases as users demand unlimited performance. If users seek balance, PCs continue to get smaller, lighter, quieter, and more powerful with time.

 

[AusWolf]

If the current USA administration REALLY cared about the environment (like they claim they do), they would have offered tax incentives or some other incentive to companies to permanently implement work from home for employees with computers that worked from home during the whole Covid scenario.

Companies adapted with the right hardware/software/infrastructure and got used to work from home ... now nearly all of them are forcing employees right back in the office ... with all those unnecessary cars and vehicles back on the road. This is the opportunity of the century to finally implement something good for both employees AND the environment ... but they failed. Again. Like almost everything else they get their hands in.

Nope ... let's get people back on those roads to do the daily commute pollute ...

That! (Even though I'm not office-based, I still see the point)

Also, if companies and governments really cared for the environment, they would look at experiments of 4-day work weeks around the world, and tried to implement it, instead of undermining it as much as possible. Fewer working days a week (even with the same working hours per week) doesn't only mean better work-life balance, but also less commuting and less fuel consumption and pollution.

Honestly, when corporations and the planets richest people tell you as an ordinary person who probably earns 30k a year, to not buy high end computer parts or put your heating on in winter, wear 2 jumpers etc then you know you are being dry shafted, these very people swan about in private jets, have multiple homes dependent on the time of year, and likely contribute many more times your carbon footprint a day, but yes, my 500w PC and having warm water and the necessities is contributing to climate change

Exactly! It's all hypocritical propaganda BS. Do what you feel is right, not what you are told to do.

 

[R-T-B]

Imo there are some very contradictory people using PCs. "i care about high power draw" but i have a 5950x and a 3090 GPU.

Because I know how much heat they make, and even with blower fans, I can't possibly air cool much more. Water is not on my radar, so... I care. And I fit your post to a tee.

 

[Flydommo]

Personally, I'm trying to find the best compromise between performance, heat, noise and power consumption in a small SFF case with two slots for a graphics card. I expect the RTX 4060 or 4070 (or their AMD/Intel equivalents) to be the ideal solution for me. I hope with some confidence that these cards will deliver tremendous performance compared to older gen GPUs at a reasonable TGP, temperature and noise level. I personally enjoy building to such a compromise since it involves a lot of research and some ingenuity.