PC Components with High Power Draw an Issue for an Overwhelming Majority of Users: Survey

[InVasMani]

There should be a tax based around performance per watt and overall TDP power draw of chips weighted 50/50 power limits can represent tier brackets while efficiency within a given bracket has it's own weighting to tax things higher or lower and the taxes would go directly towards environmental conservation efforts. You don't give a damn alright, but you're going to be taxed for it we're not paying the price for your overall disregard to the environment and society as a whole.

 

[AusWolf]

True, but what I'm talking about isn't changing their individual day-to-day behaviour, but changing the rules and modes of operation of the systems under their control. This can happen (to varying degrees) through changing the morals or thinking of those individuals (though they would most likely face severe pushback from others - CEOs from board members or shareholder, etc.), but it's far more effective to do this through legislation and regulation. While these powerful individuals have more freedom to act and have a greater impact overall, they also operate within complex networks of power that strongly determine the scope of possible or sanction-free actions. There's no better way of ensuring your own firing as a CEO than unilaterally deciding that your company should take on """unnecessary""" self-regulation for environmental or societal purposes, at least in our current late-stage capitalist environment. So again: individualizing blame is counterproductive; to change systems, we need to address the systems, not the people.

Well, that's why we have tried for a few centuries to build up functioning systems of government that try to keep power in public hands while also ensuring some degree of informed decisionmaking. Of course the success of these systems is extremely variable, and they have been consistently under attack from the wealthy and powerful, again with varying degrees of success. And when the most influential actor on global policy overall has devolved into a poorly disguised oligarchy with increasingly dysfunctional public institutions, it's hardly surprising that nobody is able to take meaningful action.

Oh, and regarding the pollution-responsibility thing: don't discount the willful blindness of the religion/libertarianism mix, which holds a near infinite amount of mechanisms for divesting those in power from the responsibilities of their actions. Either it's your god-given right to use the bountiful resources of the earth, or you have a moral right to always try to better your position in the world (while fervently denying the existence of or reliance upon anything resembling an interconnected large-scale society or environment). This is why politics is needed to address this, and why individualizing responsibility is useless: people can always concoct their own get-of-of-jail-free cards.

Yeah, that seems to be the way most places are moving for now. It's almost as if spending half a century concentrating wealth and power in the hands of a few people might not be the best idea, or the one most conducive to societal freedom and prosperity? Though I'm a bit dubious on incentives and tax deductions alone - penalties are needed too; bad actions need harsh consequences. And of course you need effective enforcement for this to work (which then necessitates closing the revolving door between industry and regulation).

Sigh.

All in all, I'm sure history will place modern capitalism in the same bucket as the falling Roman Empire or the Soviet Union - when politics became so complex that even politicians stopped giving a damn, and common people got bogged down in ping-ponging senseless leftist and rightist propaganda and pointless philosophising about using chewing gum to patch up the Titanic.

 

[thebluebumblebee]

Just thought I'd throw this in here. Right now, the number one selling processor on Newegg is not the 105 watt Ryzen 7 5800X3D, it's the 65 watt Ryzen 7 5700X!

 

[Valantar]

Just thought I'd throw this in here. Right now, the number one selling processor on Newegg is not the 105 watt Ryzen 7 5800X3D, it's the 65 watt Ryzen 7 5700X!

Also known as the $299 5700X and the $470 (!) 5800X3D. Not that surprising all things considered - $299 is kind of a sweet spot of the "volume high end" for CPUs. Still, that is an extremely efficient CPU, so I'm glad to see it sell well. I can't be the only one longing for back when a high-end consumer CPU cost $340 brand new ...

 

[MarsM4N]

... I do not drive so do not pollute like most drivers do. Would you give up your car and use a EV or Cycle to work if you could? thousands probably could but will not because they love their cars too much. Look at the people clogging roads up sat there in their cars in a jam, how many do you think turn the motor off while sat there. ...

Most who could ride with bicycle to work don't do it, because they are just too lazy. And after work they drive with the car to the gym to train of their fat.

You just need to get the right clothes, do it & get used to it. The beginning is hard, but once you get used to it, it will be the highlight of the day.
Plus you loose weight, get dam sexy legs & save on gasoline & gym bills.

hahahahaha...I drive a 1969 Chevy Camaro every chance I can in the summer...I have to offset some Prius'

People always mistake efficiency with sustainability. The most sustainable car on the planet is most likely the Mercedes W123 Diesel.

You only need to have a look on Africa's streets. You can see this 40+ year car still almost everywhere, mostly used as taxie's. The reason for that is it's durable diesel engine, if maintained they can easily do 1m+ km. In that time you would had to buy around 5 new cars. It also isn't stuffed up with electronics that fail on you & turning your car into a brick. Another reason is the dry climate, doesn't affect the mediocre corrosion protection. Taxi drivers over there where offered a new car in exchange by the state, many refused the offer.

Nothing is as efficient as an undervolted 3090, giving the most performance per watt.

Problem is, it doesn't come out of the box like that & less tech savy folks can't undervolt. And those who are istead overclock, driving the inefficiency & consumption up even more.

There's also the issue with occuring micro stutter if you undervolt too much, as igorsLab found out in his tests.

Not just that. Why does everybody need an SUV nowadays when a small hatchback was (and in my opinion still is) perfectly fine 10+ years ago?

There is a reason for this, and the legendary George Carlin figured it all out decades ago:

 

[caroline!]

Most who could ride with bicycle to work don't do it, because they are just too lazy. And after work they drive with the car to the gym to train of their fat.

You just need to get the right clothes, do it & get used to it. The beginning is hard, but once you get used to it, it will be the highlight of the day.
Plus you loose weight, get dam sexy legs & save on gasoline & gym bills.

Get an iron frame fixie and enjoy rock hard thighs.

I don't get people who drive a car to the gym... but they're usually the same that spend 80% of the time staring at their smartphones while on the equipment and even dare to GET MAD when you ask them if they're done......

 

[Flydommo]

I guess it depends on how small form factor you go, and where your tolerance level towards noise is. I have a Corsair 280X case, and even a 2070 is kind of borderline for me. I mean, cooling is OK, but the noise... not to mention that my idle CPU temp also dropped noticeably when I switched to a 6500 XT. The 4070 will probably eat a lot more and will need much better cooling than the 2070 does. If you want mini-ITX, I'd say anything above a x60 level GPU is a no-go unless you're happy with the noise of airplanes taking off in your room.

I suspect you're right about the 4060/70. If the 4060 delivers enough performance for my needs, I'll gladly put it in my Ghost S1 for that ageing 1080 Ti FE blower style card. I understand your attitude toward noise. However, for me it's important to have a relatively silent graphics card only when I'm typing, reading or streaming. I don't care much about the noise level when I play games because I don't hear the GPU then anyway. I'm used to a certain noise level anyway because I live in the city centre. A 4070 type of card may be an option for me if it can be undervolted without too much of a loss of performance and if there is a two-slot model at all.

 

[InVasMani]

I think the 4060/4070 will be fine, but the 4080 and above are too drunk on power consumption and need to go home and not come back until they sober up more.

 

[64K]

The cost of electricity will probably be more of a factor in the USA in the near future. Our electrical infrastructure has aged badly and the future prospects of increased power consumption in the hot months due to global warming could lead to increased power outages. Probably resulting in increased charges per kWh.

Then there's the other factor already mentioned. The cost of running the AC more to remove the heat caused by electronics.

 

[onemanhitsquad]

"We have near destroyed this planet"

hahaha...never going to happen...humans could possibly "destroy" themselves, but they will never destroy the planet. You could irradiate the entire planet and it would eventually right itself. maybe not in the iteration that exists today , but it has been evolving for 4.5 billion years and would repair itself in what ever way it sees fit.

The only true "settled science" is that the earth has been warming since the end of the last ice age , and it will continue to warm until the beginning of the next ice age.

 

[Steevo]

"We have near destroyed this planet"

hahaha...never going to happen...humans could possibly "destroy" themselves, but they will never destroy the planet. You could irradiate the entire planet and it would eventually right itself. maybe not in the iteration that exists today , but it has been evolving for 4.5 billion years and would repair itself in what ever way it sees fit.

The only true "settled science" is that the earth has been warming since the end of the last ice age , and it will continue to warm until the beginning of the next ice age.

I believe in carbon fuels unless we are all ready for nuclear fission base load with breeder reactors, everything else is a pipe dream. That being said, humans have changed the environment, unfortunately it’s a American/Western Europe idea to blame themselves while Brazil, China, India and Africa are still contributing 70-90 percent of pollution, deforestation, and the majority of plastic pollutants.

Humans are too stupid and short sighted to see much beyond their own wants and desire to feel good, thus Asian made components where there are few of any regulations, most beef and commodities come from South America where slash and burn continues to decimate the forest, while North America has more trees than 100 years ago. But emo peeps need something to cut themselves with

 

[64K]

The time will not come that people aren't concerned with electrical use until fusion reactors become common and electricity will be dirt cheap.

Years ago Lockheed Martin said they would have a working fusion reactor the size of a truck within 10 years. I'm not sure what the progress on that is but I will bet the old saying will make it happen not too long from now. "necessity is the mother of invention"

 

[Nater]

There should be a tax based around performance per watt and overall TDP power draw of chips weighted 50/50 power limits can represent tier brackets while efficiency within a given bracket has it's own weighting to tax things higher or lower and the taxes would go directly towards environmental conservation efforts. You don't give a damn alright, but you're going to be taxed for it we're not paying the price for your overall disregard to the environment and society as a whole.

Not pay? My electricity, LNG, gasoline, and diesel bills have ALL went up 25 - 100% in the last two years. I'm going to go burn a dump trailer full of asphalt shingles in your honor.

 

[Nihillim]

Some posts seem to be using operating temperature and power consumed interchangeably.
How much room temperature changes is the result of how much power is being used and released inside, not the operating temperature - it feeling hot to the touch, or a hot stream of air from fans isn't enough to go on.

 

[Schlechtj]

I think that is absolutely correct that manufactures up the tdp on new parts because they can't otherwise deliver the expected performance gains in order to convince people to buy a new computer. It's also competition. If they don't up the tdp, the other company will and leave them behind. From one generation to the next it's usually not that big of a deal but, when you remember that the top of the line 486DX2 back in the day had an average power consumption of only 5 watts that you realize how out of hand is getting.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

As long as it is the fastest component you can buy, what does it matter how much power it uses. Unless you would rather have a slower component that uses less power. It's all about shitting on one manufacturer over another. I don't give a shit if any Ryzen uses less power than my 12700k if my CPU is faster. Maybe if you are penny pinching over a few watts or you can't cool it then maybe so but otherwise. it's just arguing because A likes AMD and B likes Intel.

Does it Really matter that much at the end of the day? No i don't think it does. The fastest component matters not how much power it uses, but i suppose we're all about "saving the planet" now so saving 20 or 30 watts is really gonna matter.

Ask the probably hundreds of people who bought a 3090 or 3090ti if they are bothered and i bet the answer will be no apart from the 0.001% who undervolt and underclock them.

Also remember these are top tier parts not Ryzen 3's or i3's. We all buy top tier parts for top tier performance, pretty sure we don't expect them to be the most efficient or we'd buy lower class parts.

 

[InVasMani]

You've made that point abundantly clear that you would sh*t on the environment so long as your frame rate is higher. The poll also indicated the majority of people alive at least reading this tech site have a higher moral code to the future of this planet and it's inhabitants than that.

Does it really matter well considering the effects of overlooking environmental concerns you run into issues like acid rain, asbestos, lead in the drinking supply, and other problems. Most of us consider that of high significance concern than your ability or inability to disconnect from realities over your minor inconvenience about a matter that isn't up to you in the first place manufacturers don't need to uphold to your standards. They do to the government however to some degree or another and governments responsibility is that of the people as a whole not a individuals personal luxury desires.

In terms of saving the planet humanity might not, but we might slow the progressive and descent towards extinction happening sooner rather than later which is still worth fighting towards rather than turning a blind eye and giving up entirely. If you think life so inconsequential why strive live at all or render a game at a few higher frame rates at the same time.

What is so damn important about a few frame rates higher that outweighs the concerns and importance of life itself? By all means give me a convincing argument and I'll wait because you don't have one there isn't one that exists aside from the obvious one that Putin is a cancer and the world would be better off without him.

There is both a need for performance and efficiency they aren't mutually exlcusively though we should still aim and strive to improving efficiency with higher performance and without simply raising the bar higher on power consumption in order to do so at the same time. There are example cases where the power increase is entirely justified you can argue and far more that are harder to rightfully do so at the same time and majority of people are aware of that and recognize that fact.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

So people running high end rigs care about the environment, pish. I bet they all drive cars too.

 

[InVasMani]

We get it you don't care about the environment long as you can run your high end desktop never mind trying to be sensible for the common good of civilization that might interfere with your individual personal pleasures modestly god forbid. No one is talking about cars here, but those are regulated and require catalytic converters at the same time. Regardless this is about PC components and high power consumption. The environment was only 1 out of 3 other reasons to take issues with direction things have headed in regard to power consumption.

There are reasons to give a sh*t beyond the environment itself like added stress to the power grid and the cost of electricity not to mention if efficiency improves it opens up other possibilities while the opposite direction achieves the polar opposite things like the Steam Deck wouldn't even be readily possibly if you crank up the TDP. Also plenty of power is from burning coal at the same time. Cars not being perfect doesn't mean this issue should be disregarded and ignored in order for people's frame rates can be a touch higher. Every likes more performance that's natural, but getting to that point in a more responsible way that also saves people money thru not wasting as much energy and at more peaceful noise levels without dumping excess heat into people's rooms is being sensible compromise.

It's clear there is a segment of people that aren't in agreement with how things have been going or are headed and will take it upon themselves one way or another to proactively fight the direction of it. The issue is the goal posts keep widening at a point in time where society should be curbing such behavior or even heading in the other direction arguably. I mean a decade ago 300w was fine for a high end GPU, but it actually doesn't mean it should be today. If anything it should be lower and performance should still remain higher than a 300w GPU was a decade ago.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

Funny how the power use of some high end components is going up. Can't wait to see the numbers that buy them on TPU. You think it will be none to help save the world, save power, etc. I don't. Maybe they could buy high end components and ditch the polluting car to offset it, but doubt anyone would. I bet you even drive. Well I don't, I cycle.

I do care about the environment but me not using my PC is not gonna save shit. There are far more important things to consider than the maybe 5% or less of PC users that actually buy high end components, ie us.

Maybe this discussion is not about cars but they pollute far more than I do playing my games.

 

[InVasMani]

Which doesn't take away from the latter nor the fact that increased stress on the electrical power grid drives up the cost for everyone and a lot of electricity is still more polluting than you make out because a lot is still coal powered. Plus it's not simply about you and gaming it's about the big picture collectively. You individually reducing your PC from 500w to 400w won't make a big impact, but that happening across the spectrum makes a sizable one.

Once again we aren't talking about cars and other things that pollute we're talking about technology and what it's doing and getting at the root of addressing and tackling that issue. Believe it or not there are a lot of humans we can multitask these issues to address them at once both car pollution and technology derived. Not trying to all is flat out giving up and quitting is that how you approach the games you play the quickest path to a game over?

The high end components sets the tone for the entire product lineup down the line in reality. If they widen the goal posts at the top what do you think will happen down the line at the bottom? A lot more of the same is bound to happen and then it gets normalized as opposed to being chastised for being out of hand and you end up in a full retard situation like gun control. TDP has crept up for the mid range as well and expected to further.

The car aspect on environment gets talked about regularly enough, but it doesn't mean it's the only issue or problem nor that we should ignore other ones. This a tech site and the forum topic is on power consumption of technology. Quit deflecting and start reflecting on the problem that we're all increasing become waist deep in this sh*t in the coming years and decades if we don't act more now do more about it to tackle these matters.

You're like a broken record repeating the same thing and not listening to any of the points being made. The nukes went flying, but my frame rates were screaming. Alas it was good while it lasted, before I got radioactively fragged and blasted.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

Which doesn't take away from the latter nor the fact that increased stress on the electrical power grid drives up the cost for everyone and a lot of electricity is still more polluting than you make out because a lot is still coal powered. Plus it's not simply about you and gaming it's about the big picture collectively. You individually reducing your PC from 500w to 400w won't make a big impact, but that happening across the spectrum makes a sizable one.

Once again we aren't talking about cars and other things that pollute we're talking about technology and what it's doing and getting at the root of addressing and tackling that issue. Believe it or not there are a lot of humans we can multitask these issues to address them at once both car pollution and technology derived. Not trying to all is flat out giving up and quitting is that how you approach the games you play the quickest path to a game over?

So what about you, what are YOU doing then to help? no specs posted either i see, hiding your horribly inefficient PC are you?

The majority of PC user will not give a hoot, sorry but it is true. How much power around the globe do you think servers are pissing away with horribly high power using massive clusters? Stop pointing the finger at me for my views and my infinitesimal in comparison power use.

Maybe the poll should have been for registered TPU users only so we could have got more of an idea of what regular user are going to do. Overall i do not contribute with my PC very much at all to global downfall, and i don't have money like some on here to run mining rigs, or run multiple PC's, i have one. I also do not have a very high end power munching GPU like quite a few on here. Do you think they will ditch it for something that uses less and give up their 4K gaming good luck with that.

I am quite happy i do not pollute much or use very much power.

I do care as i said, but unless the major contributors do something, cutting my meagre power use is going to do nothing in comparison, so i am not going to do it.

 

[InVasMani]

I've mentioned it several times I have a Skylake i3 a GTX980 that's bios modded and undervolted with a lower power limit and 400w Seasonic fanless PSU gold rated efficiency it was the best they sold when I bought it. My PC parts are lower TDP than the vast majority of system specs on these forums. It's not best on performance watt, but the CPU is set to be replaced with something newer and GPU to a lesser degree is as well though in less dire need especially seeing as I bumped up it's performance per watt with bios mod. I modded GPU bios for years and optimized them for better performance for watt for a long time since as far back as like a 8800GT.

Wanting to strive towards improvement isn't a bad goal to set for oneself or others ffs the environmental concern isn't a competition better efficiency that benefits those that struggle the most isn't either for that matter. Being opposed to improving greater efficiency and more uniform equality and playing field is rather sub-human. Who said anything about pointing the finger at you specifically!!? Society can do better and should do better period. You would think the field of technology of all places would understand and be in agreement on that. It's not up for debate it's a matter of fact and it's called ethics and standards and holding ourselves to higher ones. We can set a better example and tone to follow and should be for a subset of society driven and rooted by math and science.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

I'm just gonna carry on as i am. I am not going to use more power than i do now, but neither am i going to try and use any less either, as i do not think i use half of what some users on here do with their multiple PC's and or mining rigs.

 

[simlife]

and with next gen all these stats mean nothing if you understand ppi and the human eye... a 2 k 27 inch montior using fsr or dlss at 1080 on new hardware (5 or lower nm) means this is a stupid poll the best looking game on my high end pcs vs the the highest wow ive ever played might be the ps4 (2013) last of us 2 if a deace later on pc using the same base res on well a mf computer your fine... x10