Germany to Give Intel €6.8 Billion Towards Magdeburg Fab

[ARF]

If it only were that simple. You think these industrial systems run on off the shelf computers? Or that they don't need specialty maintenance and spares to keep on functioning?

Come on, man!

They don't run on 3nm chips, for sure. The other things are irrelevant to this discussion details.

 

[maxfly]

Questions:
- does the German government pour the same amounts of cash into GLOBALFOUNDRIES?
- did intel win a fair competition with other plants for this specific subsidy?
- is the EU informed and is it legal?

GF cant afford to build a fab in Germany. They are years and years behind TSMC and Intel. Even if a country offered to foot half the build costs GF couldn't swing it financially. GF is an ant in comparison to TSMC and Intel.

Actually TSMC and Intel both have been flirting with several European countries for several months but TSMC recently pulled out, as per the above article. They are the only two actively seeking multiple partnerships globally. There have been a few others that are building new foundries but I forget where.

If it weren't legal Germany certainly wouldn't offer up 6.8 billion to Intel. The EU is going to get it's piece of the pie after all.
Essentially Germany made the best offer out of the European countries vying for the new fab.

 

[_Flare]

This investment and pitch is consistent with the long overdue since the remerger of east- and west-germany 1989.
Additionally Dresden has its silicon-saxony called region wich got a bit out of focus in the say last decade or so.
The ecologic and economic changes of the last few decades and the coming ones include shifts away from coal mining,
wich has a relatively big impact on some regions.
So like the help for Bosch or Tesla and so on this is 100% consistent in what our republic voted them for.

 

[PapaTaipei]

Germany just obey it's US master since the end of ww2.

 

[progste]

I bet Germans are thrilled to have their government give away their money!

 

[Denver]

I bet Germans are thrilled to have their government give away their money!

Probably happier than paying double or triple on GPUs.

 

[zlobby]

Of all the pieces of shoot they choose intel..

GF cant afford to build a fab in Germany. They are years and years behind TSMC and Intel. Even if a country offered to foot half the build costs GF couldn't swing it financially. GF is an ant in comparison to TSMC and Intel.

Actually TSMC and Intel both have been flirting with several European countries for several months but TSMC recently pulled out, as per the above article. They are the only two actively seeking multiple partnerships globally. There have been a few others that are building new foundries but I forget where.

If it weren't legal Germany certainly wouldn't offer up 6.8 billion to Intel. The EU is going to get it's piece of the pie after all.
Essentially Germany made the best offer out of the European countries vying for the new fab.

With TSMC now steadily in the aim of CCP, they should do everything to move outside Taiwan. Even if they had the whole factory rigged with explosives, ready to go boom once CCP start their 'One China' operation.

Questions:
- does the German government pour the same amounts of cash into GLOBALFOUNDRIES?
- did intel win a fair competition with other plants for this specific subsidy?
- is the EU informed and is it legal?

Member 'Dieselgate'? Oh, I member!

Worst case scenario, EU slaps them with some laughable fine.

If only that's how the world actually worked. We could look forward to static pricing for years and years to come.


I don't think you understand what these subsidies actually entail. They may help Intel absorb a small portion of the cost to build their $30 to $50 billion dollar foundry and they may in fact work out some kind of sweetheart deal that exempts them from paying taxes for the first 5 or 10 years(I have no idea). What your missing is the massive influx of capital generated by their employing thousands of locals (poor and middle class)both directly and indirectly. Which will obviously generate huge amounts of tax revenue in and of itself. Not withstanding the actual taxes Intel will pay. Inevitably they will become one of the biggest companies in the country. The taxes will follow.

China is a world player because of their ability to look ahead and take advantage of the Wests insatiable appetite for cheap labor and goods. They've done quite well for themselves. Their economic and cultural systems are far more at the core of wealth distribution than anything else. As to the average citizens feelings of economic health today vs. prior to their economic boom? I doubt many modern citizens would complain. China was essentially a 3rd world country during the hardline years

Intel will probably source some Eastern Europeans anyway. With the 'open borders' concept in the EU that is the case with most tech companies. German youth is too PC to get proper education and start real careers.

 

[thesmokingman]

Germans are totally nuts, all the nutty choices they've made and their bureaucracy so this isn't a surprise.

 

[ARF]

GF cant afford to build a fab in Germany. They are years and years behind TSMC and Intel. Even if a country offered to foot half the build costs GF couldn't swing it financially. GF is an ant in comparison to TSMC and Intel.

Actually TSMC and Intel both have been flirting with several European countries for several months but TSMC recently pulled out, as per the above article. They are the only two actively seeking multiple partnerships globally. There have been a few others that are building new foundries but I forget where.

If it weren't legal Germany certainly wouldn't offer up 6.8 billion to Intel. The EU is going to get it's piece of the pie after all.
Essentially Germany made the best offer out of the European countries vying for the new fab.

GLOBALFOUNDRIES is the former AMD fabs and already has fabs in Germany. And now AMD is almost as large as intel:

GF is not small at all, 30B market cap.

 

[chrcoluk]

Corporates rule the roost.

Its a lose/lose for a government, dont pay the bribe (like us in the UK) and you dont get the investment from the corporate. This in turn hurts your economy. Pay the bribe, and it has a short term financial cost plus the effect you paying for someone else's infrastructure. As has been mentioned, things like tax breaks and grants are effectively the same thing but simply fall under the radar easier as its not an announced lump sum up front.

 

[TheUn4seen]

Obviously, giving public money to private companies is horrible, but, put in the context of how the world is structured nowadays, it makes sense. Russia made Germany their bitches just by talking about limiting gas supply - German energy production is dependent on gas, in no small part because they got conned into limiting nuclear energy production. The only way I can explain this move are massive bribes from Russia or massive amounts of stupidity, and Germans don't strike me as stupid people. Cowardly and greedy, yes, but not stupid. Now they're horrified that China might do the same with semiconductors, because guess who led the "Hey Europe! Go ahead, sell all your IP and tech production to China! They'll always be our good chums, Winnie the Pooh is their leader, and he's a great character!" movement? There's fear mixed with desperation in Germany because people are beginning to see just how drained and technologically backward Europe really is and fingers are beginning to be pointed in Germany's general direction.

 

[ARF]

They are not stupid - just enslaved and don't want to be free.
What happens is that the poorest states in Europe pour money into the German economy and then the Germans pour that money into the US economy. In the end, the whole of Europe is enslaved by the americans.

 

[80-watt Hamster]

They are not stupid - just enslaved and don't want to be free.
What happens is that the poorest states in Europe pour money into the German economy and then the Germans pour that money into the US economy. In the end, the whole of Europe is enslaved by the americans.

By what vector?

 

[Bomby569]

Questions:
- does the German government pour the same amounts of cash into GLOBALFOUNDRIES?
- did intel win a fair competition with other plants for this specific subsidy?
- is the EU informed and is it legal?

-Global Foundries is not a direct competitor to Intel Fabs. I have no idea why Intel specifically, probably they approach the Germans not the other way around. GF doesn't have the same scope.
-The same was offered to Tesla, they refused in the end i think. This happens a lot, it's no so much a competition, but more a opportunity. Usually a company says it wants to expand to Europe and then every country tries to get the fab for them. I know in the Tesla case it was Tesla that did the competition not the other way around, my country was in the run for it.
-It is, it has rules, i assume they were approved. There was a specific plan in the EU to bring chip manufacturing to Europe

 

[Dr. Dro]

Of all the pieces of shoot they choose intel..

Intel is the only company in this business with the capital and roadmap to build such an advanced semiconductor fab.

Apple would have the money, but like AMD, they remain fabless and both would potentially become Intel customers in the future as Gelsinger intends to license the Intel manufacturing process for third-party companies to use. A Ryzen or Radeon built on the Intel 20A process node may be closer to reality than you think, much to the chagrin of brand loyalists everywhere. I wonder if they would call AMD traitors and stop buying from them, too?

 

[Fluffmeister]

It was always going to boil down to a bung, the EU's anti-competitive lawsuit against Intel magically vanished recently and it was just a case of which member state was willing to throw the most money at Intel for the privilege of having an Intel fab. Germany are more than happy to throw billions at Putin, so Pat and the gang are more than happy to invest in the EU's biggest economy.

 

[Why_Me]

I bet Germans are thrilled to have their government give away their money!

#Brussels has entered the chat.

 

[zlobby]

#Brussels has entered the chat.

If it was only them.

Intel is the only company in this business with the capital and roadmap to build such an advanced semiconductor fab.

Yes, and TSMC wouldn't want another plant in Europe? Or maybe they don't have the cash? /s

AMD and Apple being fabless for now doesn't mean it can't change in the future.

 

[Chomiq]

Germoney is no Polan, its industry is high tech enough so that these €6.8 will pay off fast enough once the fabs are up and running. Its automotive industry will most likely consume most of the chips manufactured in these fabs.

 

[ARF]

Germoney is no Polan, its industry is high tech enough so that these €6.8 will pay off fast enough once the fabs are up and running. Its automotive industry will most likely consume most of the chips manufactured in these fabs.

Unless the new fab is actually on old manufacturing nodes, I don't see how the automotive industry will take the chips. These chips will be more for the PC market / supercomputers, most likely.

By what vector?

Net capital flow?

 

[Chomiq]

Unless the new fab is actually on old manufacturing nodes, I don't see how the automotive industry will take the chips. These chips will be more for the PC market / supercomputers, most likely.

That's not what Germany needs, they need chips to put into cars and washing machines.

 

[zlobby]

Unless the new fab is actually on old manufacturing nodes, I don't see how the automotive industry will take the chips. These chips will be more for the PC market / supercomputers, most likely.

I'm pretty sure automobiles will gladly use chips on newer nodes.

 

[ARF]

That's not what Germany needs, they need chips to put into cars and washing machines.

I'm pretty sure automobiles will gladly use chips on newer nodes.

They would but they won't.
The whole game is a geopolitical strategy to return the critical manufacturing infrastructure back to home - away from the "enemies" - the other 135 countries in the world led by China, Russia, India, South African Republic, Mexico, Latin America, Africa who will like to establish a new world economic order.

 

[Ferrum Master]

They are not stupid - just enslaved and don't want to be free.
What happens is that the poorest states in Europe pour money into the German economy and then the Germans pour that money into the US economy. In the end, the whole of Europe is enslaved by the americans.

I you should look out of the window sometimes and consume less your propogandist crap sometimes. You manage very often to make absurd anticapitalistic claims.

The German move is very wise and is aimed as long term profit for the infrastructure. The money doesn't leave Germany actually it will return in taxes by employees and Intel itself consuming local goods.

It is way better as invest into Russian Gas addiction.

 

[ARF]

I you should look out of the window sometimes and consume less your propogandist crap sometimes. You manage very often to make absurd anticapitalistic claims.

The German moveis very wise and is aimed as long term profit for the infrastructure. The money doesn't leave Germany actually it will return in taxes by employees and Intel itself consuming local goods.

It is way better as invest into Russian Gas addiction.

Germany exports $115.8B to the US and imports around $55.5B from the US. It is a net capital exporter to the US.