USB4 is Coming - Everything You Need to Know

[TheLostSwede]

USB4 is the next evolution of the USB standard, but it's quite different from its predecessors as it brings with it support for DisplayPort connectivity, as well as optional PCI-Express and Thunderbolt 3 support. It tries to fix some technical issues, but adds a few of its own, but at least the labeling is clear.

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[Easy Rhino]

At this rate I'll be waiting for USB 5

 

[Dr. Dro]

Great write-up, it's pretty clear and concise. New and exciting technology alright (especially with the odd censor request from AsMedia), though at this point, I can only hope that it finally begins to supplant USB 2.0 Type A connectors. It seems like those have survived through every model of connector intended to replace them since the 1990's, somewhat like the MP3 format, many better codecs with better sound and/or compression have been developed, but they never replace MP3... likewise USB 2.0 lingers

 

[ir_cow]

It's interesting to see that MSI keeps calling its USB-C ports USB4 in the manual. USB-C 20Gbps = USB4?

Another thing that is a interesting marketing deploy is Thunderbolt 3 is "up to" 40 Gbps, Thunderbolt 4 requires 40 Gbps. I see a lot of hubs and externals for sale saying USB4 / Thunderbolt 3 40Gbps, but if you look into the hardware the controller cannot do more than 20Gbps. Whos scamming who now?

 

[Denver]

With all this performance, Would it be possible to create a USB4 GPU?

 

[SOAREVERSOR]

This is going to confuse all the users at work even more LOL.

 

[Tek-Check]

It's interesting to see that MSI keeps calling its USB-C ports USB4 in the manual. USB-C 20Gbps = USB4?

Yes. USB4, as the article reads, can do either 20 Gbps or 40 Gbps.

Another thing that is a interesting marketing deploy is Thunderbolt 3 is "up to" 40 Gbps, Thunderbolt 4 requires 40 Gbps. I see a lot of hubs and externals for sale saying USB4 / Thunderbolt 3 40Gbps, but if you look into the hardware the controller cannot do more than 20Gbps. Whos scamming who now?

There is no scam, just terrible marketing for those who are not informed. TB3 40 Gbps is fine, as the signal is bi-directional. Companies should say 2x20 Gbps to be on the accurate side if they use older DSL 6240 controller with PCIe 3.0 x2 wiring, but no one chases them to be more honest.

 

[zlobby]

Ah, hell naw!

 

[Zareek]

Man, what a fiasco. Do they not get it or do they not care? People want something simple, not more complicated. Make it 20 Gbps or 40 Gbps . Hell say USB4 supports 20Gbps but USB4.1 or USB4a supports 40Gbps just not this logo bull and all the other crap! It's hard enough for those of us who read this stuff all the time to keep up with, try explaining to your average consumer. They always end up just buying the cheapest thing they can and getting pissy because it doesn't work right. No wonder people are flocking to their phones and abandoning computers as a platform.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Yes. USB4, as the article reads, can do either 20 Gbps or 40 Gbps.

There is no scam, just terrible marketing for those who are not informed. TB3 40 Gbps is fine, as the signal is bi-directional. Companies should say 2x20 Gbps to be on the accurate side if they use older DSL 6240 controller with PCIe 3.0 x2 wiring, but no one chases them to be more honest.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't Intel phase out the Alpine Ridge controller series like 5 years ago or something? I recall my X99 board seems to have the DSL6540, but I never owned the header card for it.

Man, what a fiasco. Do they not get it or do they not care? People want something simple, not more complicated. Make it 20 Gbps or 40 Gbps . Hell say USB4 supports 20Gbps but USB4.1 or USB4a supports 40Gbps just not this logo bull and all the other crap! It's hard enough for those of us who read this stuff all the time to keep up with, try explaining to your average consumer. They always end up just buying the cheapest thing they can and getting pissy because it doesn't work right. No wonder people are flocking to their phones and abandoning computers as a platform.

I agree, perhaps this is why USB 2.0 and mp3 have outlived most if not all of its spiritual successors

 

[TheUn4seen]

Oh, how I love the excitement of looking for the 2mm logos on a product just to figure out if a device will be compatible with this particular port and the uncertainty of "will it work at all?". USB-IF seems to be an organization full of either old people who don't care and just want money or people living in a really isolated tech bubble. "U" stands for "universal" and USB is anything but - a myriad of standards, versions, alt modes. Just make it work like "red port for high power, blue for fast data". Now it's more along the lines of "the port and cables look the same but you need to spend half an hour finding and reading several manuals to figure out why it doesn't do what you want it to".

 

[Icon Charlie]

You know I still use USB 2.0.... Right??? Professionally... Right???
Yea I get it however....

75% OF THE PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD DO NOT USE BLEEDING EDGE TECHNOLOGY.

Oh, how I love the excitement of looking for the 2mm logos on a product just to figure out if a device will be compatible with this particular port and the uncertainty of "will it work at all?". USB-IF seems to be an organization full of either old people who don't care and just want money or people living in a really isolated tech bubble. "U" stands for "universal" and USB is anything but - a myriad of standards, versions, alt modes. Just make it work like "red port for high power, blue for fast data". Now it's more along the lines of "the port and cables look the same but you need to spend half an hour finding and reading several manuals to figure out why it doesn't do what you want it to".

Agree with this comment because it is the truth. If you are a tech geek junkie like I am you say, "That's pretty cool" and then go back to what is reliable in the long run.

 

[Tek-Check]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't Intel phase out the Alpine Ridge controller series like 5 years ago or something? I recall my X99 board seems to have the DSL6540, but I never owned the header card for it.

Devices can still use TB3 with PCIe 3.0 x2, so half of the speed. Many peripherals use it.

Make it 20 Gbps or 40 Gbps .

That's exactly what they did with USB4.

"U" stands for "universal" and USB is anything but - a myriad of standards, versions, alt modes. Just make it work like "red port for high power, blue for fast data". Now it's more along the lines of "the port and cables look the same but you need to spend half an hour finding and reading several manuals to figure out why it doesn't do what you want it to".

It's trying to be universal by supporting most of what you really need on PC, which is USB data, DP and PCIe.
Vendors are responsible for informing accurately about speeds.

 

[TheLostSwede]

It's interesting to see that MSI keeps calling its USB-C ports USB4 in the manual. USB-C 20Gbps = USB4?

Another thing that is a interesting marketing deploy is Thunderbolt 3 is "up to" 40 Gbps, Thunderbolt 4 requires 40 Gbps. I see a lot of hubs and externals for sale saying USB4 / Thunderbolt 3 40Gbps, but if you look into the hardware the controller cannot do more than 20Gbps. Whos scamming who now?

As I alluded, but didn't want to spell out in the article, Intel didn't want USB4 to be superior to Thunderbolt 4, despite other members of the USB-IF pushing for USB4 to offer better features. For example, some companies wanted 20 Gbps USB 3.2 to be the minimum supported, but that would've been better than the 10 Gbps that Thunderbolt does, so Intel said no.

Some of the limitations are cost related, some are kind of weird and I don't understand the reasoning behind. Several are related to backwards compatibility and some are related to the fact that USB4 does so much more than just sending USB data.

With all this performance, Would it be possible to create a USB4 GPU?

You mean an external GPU for laptops? Yes.

This is going to confuse all the users at work even more LOL.

A lot of it can be ignored by the average user, buy the fact that so many things are optional, is dumb and will indeed cause confusion.

 

[hat]

 

[TheLostSwede]

Man, what a fiasco. Do they not get it or do they not care? People want something simple, not more complicated. Make it 20 Gbps or 40 Gbps . Hell say USB4 supports 20Gbps but USB4.1 or USB4a supports 40Gbps just not this logo bull and all the other crap! It's hard enough for those of us who read this stuff all the time to keep up with, try explaining to your average consumer. They always end up just buying the cheapest thing they can and getting pissy because it doesn't work right. No wonder people are flocking to their phones and abandoning computers as a platform.

Well, at least everything that has passed certification has to be labelled properly now, unlike previous versions where you bought the pig in the poke. It was impossible to trust that cables would deliver on the claimed performance, unless it was from some brand name like Lindy etc.

Phones also use USB-C and most only have USB 2.0 for data and most phones don't support features like DP Alt Mode and most rely on an external DAC for audio. So it's really no better.

Oh, how I love the excitement of looking for the 2mm logos on a product just to figure out if a device will be compatible with this particular port and the uncertainty of "will it work at all?". USB-IF seems to be an organization full of either old people who don't care and just want money or people living in a really isolated tech bubble. "U" stands for "universal" and USB is anything but - a myriad of standards, versions, alt modes. Just make it work like "red port for high power, blue for fast data". Now it's more along the lines of "the port and cables look the same but you need to spend half an hour finding and reading several manuals to figure out why it doesn't do what you want it to".

It's not just that, but several members have very different agendas. In all honesty, I'm not sure why Intel pretty much gave the USB-IF Thunderbolt 3 as the base for USB4 and then demanded it couldn't be superior in any way to Thunderbolt 4.

 

[Tek-Check]

With all this performance, Would it be possible to create a USB4 GPU?

External GPU enclosures have been found to be limited in performance by PCIe 3.0 x4 connection used in TB4. It's like putting GPU into motherboard in x4 slot.

In all honesty, I'm not sure why Intel pretty much gave the USB-IF Thunderbolt 3 as the base for USB4 and then demanded it couldn't be superior in any way to Thunderbolt 4.

To increase TB4 and usb-c adoption in desktop space, which is currently really niche and usb-c has only started to appear.

 

[TheLostSwede]

External GPU enclosures have been found to be limited in performance by PCIe 3.0 x4 connection used in TB4. It's like putting GPU into motherboard in x4 slot.

USB4 should improve on that somewhat.

To increase TB4 and usb-c adoption in desktop space, which is currently really niche and usb-c has only started to appear.

Very likely, but then why make sure the baseline for USB4 is worse on all accounts compared to Thunderbolt 3?

 

[BSim500]

USB4 is Coming - Everything You Need to Know:-

- Motherboards will come with USB 4 ports by 2023.
- Cases will come with USB 4 ports by 2053.

 

[Space Lynx]

damn 240w... gaming laptops will be happy

 

[TheLostSwede]

damn 240w... gaming laptops will be happy

It's technically PoE Voltage, but at a much higher current.

 

[lexluthermiester]

USB4 is the next evolution of the USB standard, but it's quite different from its predecessors as it brings with it support for DisplayPort connectivity, as well as optional PCI-Express and Thunderbolt 3 support. It tries to fix some technical issues, but adds a few of its own, but at least the labeling is clear.

Good review and summery of information.

damn 240w... gaming laptops will be happy

True.

 

[Dristun]

"For some reason, Intel isn't marketing any of its Thunderbolt 4 products as "USB4 compatible" despite the fact that they appear to be certified."
Cause thunderbolt4 is cool and usb4 isn't, hahaha. Apple products have thunderbolt, expensive mobos have thunderbolt - no need for dat pleb usb4!

 

[messofpotamia]

How far are we from making monitor power plugs optional? 60 watts should allow a lot of people to clean up the cable clutter on their desk.

As for why Intel baselined USB4 lower than TB3.. just look at their profit margins if you want an answer.

 

[Tek-Check]

USB4 should improve on that somewhat.

What would be a difference?