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When will gpu prices return to normal.

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Some say when Ethereum is gone, miners can choose other coins and then convert it to ether....
I mean if Ethereum profitability is going down and miners are selling their GPU, couldn't they just mine Monero and convert it to bitcoin or ether View attachment 251262
is this really the end of mining?

@R-T-B @Valantar @Vayra86
Depends on a few dozen big things. Its really hard to tell, all you can say is the market is very volatile and there is one certainty: everything suffers from inflation. These fun coins take big hits at that point, when you have to choose between running your shitty GPUs all day or eating something for dinner. The price of energy is quickly going to overtake the profitability if this continues.
 
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No, it is not
In the USA (which is where majority of this forum lives) the AMD cards are alot cheaper overall so i'm not surprised someone made that claim.

RX 6600 is almost 100 dollars cheaper then the 3060 non-ti and the 6600 actually has 3 models that are cheaper than the cheapest 3050 which is an absolute joke. 6600XT is about $50-70 cheaper than the 3060 non-ti. 6700 is anywhere from $50-120 cheaper than both the 3060ti and 3070.

Even with the most recent aggresssive RTX 3080 price drops the 6800XT can still be found for $50-70 cheaper.
 

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In the USA (which is where majority of this forum lives) the AMD cards are alot cheaper overall so i'm not surprised someone made that claim.

RX 6600 is almost 100 dollars cheaper then the 3060 non-ti and the 6600 actually has 3 models that are cheaper than the cheapest 3050 which is an absolute joke. 6600XT is about $50-70 cheaper than the 3060 non-ti. 6700 is anywhere from $50-120 cheaper than both the 3060ti and 3070.

Even with the most recent aggresssive RTX 3080 price drops the 6800XT can still be found for $50-70 cheaper.

No, it is easy to check.

1655409192331.png

radeon rx 6800 xt | Newegg.com

1655409216525.png

rtx 3080 | Newegg.com

More or less the same price.
The cheapest RX 6800 XT in the list was discounted from 919$.
 
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In the USA (which is where majority of this forum lives) the AMD cards are alot cheaper overall so i'm not surprised someone made that claim.

RX 6600 is almost 100 dollars cheaper then the 3060 non-ti and the 6600 actually has 3 models that are cheaper than the cheapest 3050 which is an absolute joke. 6600XT is about $50-70 cheaper than the 3060 non-ti. 6700 is anywhere from $50-120 cheaper than both the 3060ti and 3070.

Even with the most recent aggresssive RTX 3080 price drops the 6800XT can still be found for $50-70 cheaper.

Even in my country with our shitty 27% VAT + greedy prices they are either equal or cheaper on the AMD side for ~equal or better performance.
RTX 3050 is a wee bit cheaper than the cheapest 6600 and the 6600 XT is cheaper than the 3060 or the same.

Crappiest 3060 Ti is more expensive than a RX 6700 XT Red Devil and its like that even higher up the list.
 
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The cheapest RX 6800 XT in the list was discounted from 919$.

6800xt are bad values right now. 6900xt and 6950xt seem to be available in far higher quantities.

6750xt is almost as good as 6800xt as well, if you're willing to get a slightly inferior card.

---------

I personally like the 6800xt in theory with 16GBs, full sized RDNA infinity cache. It has fewer compute units than 6900xt or 6950xt, but maybe yields have improved? So AMD just doesn't have much reason to sell the cut-down dies as 6800xt
 
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More or less the same price.
No you intentionally cherry picked the 1 example that was close. That doesn't mean AMD cards aren't cheaper

The 6600 being cheaper than the 3050 and $100 less than the 3060, the 6600XT being $50+ cheaper than the 3060, the 6700 being $100+ cheaper than the 3070 is NOT the definition of "more or less the same price"
 
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Some say when Ethereum is gone, miners can choose other coins and then convert it to ether....
I mean if Ethereum profitability is going down and miners are selling their GPU, couldn't they just mine Monero and convert it to bitcoin or ether View attachment 251262
is this really the end of mining?

@R-T-B @Valantar @Vayra86
Conversion rates would suck at that, but it's certainly possible if your desperate.
 
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I have heard this explanation all the time. But it shouldn't work like that. The retailers should transfer some percentage of the money got for the cards only after the purchase is executed, not before that, because it obviously doesn't take the current (at the time of the final purchase) market situation into account.
No distributor in the world would agree to that. I mean, the proposition is ludicrous on its face. "How about instead of me paying you the full price now, I pay you a percentage now, and a percentage at some undefined future date when I manage to sell the product on to a customer?" Distributors do not give out zero-interest loans with no fixed payback date. Very, very few entities do so in general.

AMD's pricing for the Radeons makes no sense whatsoever.

View attachment 251264
AMD RX 6800 XT 16GB | NiceHash

View attachment 251265
NVIDIA RTX 3060 Ti | NiceHash

RTX 3060 Ti costs only 500 euros and is more profitable mining solution than the 795 euros RX 6800 XT.
KFA² GeForce RTX 3060 Ti ab 499,99 € | Preisvergleich bei idealo.de
Almost as if ... oh, I don't know, GPU MSRPs aren't set based on their NiceHash return rate? Who'd'a thunk it?
That's because AMD is doing direct sales and isn't dependent on distributors in the same way retailers are. Retailers are generally relatively small businesses with tight margins and can't afford to take on significant losses clearing out stock - though at some point having the cash bound up in unsold stock does become more expensive than just taking the loss. But that takes months, possibly years.
No, it is easy to check.

View attachment 251281
radeon rx 6800 xt | Newegg.com

View attachment 251282
rtx 3080 | Newegg.com

More or less the same price.
The cheapest RX 6800 XT in the list was discounted from 919$.
You're very focused on the 6800 XT, which is among the worst value and least price competitive AMD GPUs in recent months (mainly due to most Navi 21 stock seemingly going to 6900 XT/6950 XTs instead). Maybe compare the 6600, 6600 XT or 6900 XT to their equivalent Nvidia cards?
 

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No distributor in the world would agree to that. I mean, the proposition is ludicrous on its face. "How about instead of me paying you the full price now, I pay you a percentage now, and a percentage at some undefined future date when I manage to sell the product on to a customer?" Distributors do not give out zero-interest loans with no fixed payback date. Very, very few entities do so in general.

You don't need distributors, to begin with. The less mid steps between the plant and the end user - the better for everyone.
Kill the distributors / don't ask them anything.


The AMD cards are slower in general - slower ray-tracing when needed, slower mining, not available DLSS if someone'd be interested in, etc.
 
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You don't need distributors, to begin with. The less mid steps between the plant and the end user - the better for everyone.
Kill the distributors / don't ask them anything.
Yeah, good luck buying products directly from manufacturers in most parts of the world. You don't seem to have much of an understanding of how the retail value chain works. A couple of questions:
- Do you believe manufacturers generally have their own distribution networks that aren't reliant on third parties?
- Do you believe all (or even most) retailers have the resources to coordinate importing their own products from overseas, including the major legal requirements surrounding this?
- Do you believe all or most retailers have the cash available to pay for pricey PC components several months ahead, and can afford the outlay while the product is shipped to them from the factory warehouse?
- Do you have any understanding of the type of scale required to make self-importing GPUs directly from the manufacturer economically viable, or the work required to make this happen?

Distributors can absolutely be massive assholes, and they also need margins for their business to not go under, but they fill a fundamentally necessary function in the distribution of goods produced on the other side of the globe. "Sidestepping distributors and going directly to the manufacturer" is an overused marketing trope typically used by major actors ordering low-cost goods directly from a manufacturer, and in the tech world that is essentially limited to store-brand peripherals and the like. The US is an exception, as many manufacturers do direct sales there, both due to being based there and due to the massive size of the US market (and the relatively low legal/distribution effort required for importing to a single country with a single language and mostly a single set of laws (there are lots of state laws, but few that are relevant to this)).
 
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You don't need distributors, to begin with. The less mid steps between the plant and the end user - the better for everyone.
Kill the distributors / don't ask them anything.


The AMD cards are slower in general - slower ray-tracing when needed, slower mining, not available DLSS if someone'd be interested in, etc.
I think you might want to rethink your last statement, if companies delivered directly they could also choose who gets what.
I would be surprised if Intel shipped to me at this point, that would be a shi##3r, I definitely Want a Arc card.
 
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You don't need distributors, to begin with. The less mid steps between the plant and the end user - the better for everyone.
Kill the distributors / don't ask them anything.

Retailers: Work with customers directly. Handles thefts, returns, warranties, other such customer-facing problems.

Factories: Creates lots and lots of product. Only ships entire pallets of product at a time, nothing smaller.

Wholesaler / Distributor: Breaks bulk. Cracks open pallets into smaller packages, so that end-retailers don't have to deal with as much product at a time. Handles last-mile logistics / short haul trucking (as opposed to the long-haul shipping and/or rail).

Different jobs, each managing an important part of the supply chain. People like Amazon / Walmart try to merge Retail / Wholesale into a singular company, but in practice, Walmart still has retail outlets and separate warehouses.

In effect: Walmart simply is an entity that has "in-housed" the wholesale portion of the supply chain.
 
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Retailers: Work with customers directly. Handles thefts, returns, warranties, other such customer-facing problems.

Factories: Creates lots and lots of product. Only ships entire pallets of product at a time, nothing smaller.

Wholesaler / Distributor: Breaks bulk. Cracks open pallets into smaller packages, so that end-retailers don't have to deal with as much product at a time. Handles last-mile logistics / short haul trucking (as opposed to the long-haul shipping and/or rail).

Different jobs, each managing an important part of the supply chain. People like Amazon / Walmart try to merge Retail / Wholesale into a singular company, but in practice, Walmart still has retail outlets and separate warehouses.

In effect: Walmart simply is an entity that has "in-housed" the wholesale portion of the supply chain.
Yep, as has a collection of others across various market segments and geographic areas. In the Nordics, the largest PC-focused electronics etailer (Komplett) built their now near three-decade dominant market position by starting a distribution business in parallel with their etail business (at the time it was named Norek, it has since renamed to Itegra, though the registered company name in public business registries is still Komplett Distribusjon AS, literally "Komplett Distribution" in Norwegian (AS is roughly the Norwegian equivalent of the US LLC)). This essentially gave them a double leg up - they got preferential pricing from their distributor arm, and also served as a key partner for most electronics companies wanting to sell goods in first Norway, then the Nordics, serving as a major distributor to every other retailer as well. Wherever you bought your PC components from, Komplett got a cut, with relatively minor exceptions. But running those two as separate businesses is the only reason this worked as well for them as it did (and it is of course an open question whether their close cooperation was anticompetitive or not). Combining the two into one unit wouldn't have been the same, and would have made the whole undertaking a lot more difficult.
 
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I see this guy is selling 3090 with active backplate cooler for 1050$
He was using Laird thermal pads and max temp was 68

He bought the card 2000$ himself + waterblock 110$

He's been sandwich watercooling it

1655453810271.png
 
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Yeah, good luck buying products directly from manufacturers in most parts of the world. You don't seem to have much of an understanding of how the retail value chain works. A couple of questions:
- Do you believe manufacturers generally have their own distribution networks that aren't reliant on third parties?
- Do you believe all (or even most) retailers have the resources to coordinate importing their own products from overseas, including the major legal requirements surrounding this?
- Do you believe all or most retailers have the cash available to pay for pricey PC components several months ahead, and can afford the outlay while the product is shipped to them from the factory warehouse?
- Do you have any understanding of the type of scale required to make self-importing GPUs directly from the manufacturer economically viable, or the work required to make this happen?

Distributors can absolutely be massive assholes, and they also need margins for their business to not go under, but they fill a fundamentally necessary function in the distribution of goods produced on the other side of the globe. "Sidestepping distributors and going directly to the manufacturer" is an overused marketing trope typically used by major actors ordering low-cost goods directly from a manufacturer, and in the tech world that is essentially limited to store-brand peripherals and the like. The US is an exception, as many manufacturers do direct sales there, both due to being based there and due to the massive size of the US market (and the relatively low legal/distribution effort required for importing to a single country with a single language and mostly a single set of laws (there are lots of state laws, but few that are relevant to this)).

i do agree with all point being made here. Warranties, etc.. All valid points.
But Tesla disrupted a old market and sure things aren't wonderfull, there is issues with the model, but it works.

A lot of times (and this is especially true in smaller countries like mine, may be different in something like the US) distribution of PC parts (and other specialized products) are in the hands of some obscure company that only creates problems for everyone, consumers and brand. In the gpu crisis this was even more clear, prices were even higher because of this exclusive distribution agents or whatever they are called.

In a market completely outside of tech i bought a product with a problem, the seller was 5 stars, the brand was 5 stars, all the problems came from the middle man, the exclusive distributor in my country. This is very common in my experience.
 
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i do agree with all point being made here. Warranties, etc.. All valid points.
But Tesla disrupted a old market and sure things aren't wonderfull, there is issues with the model, but it works.

A lot of times (and this is especially true in smaller countries like mine, may be different in something like the US) distribution of PC parts (and other specialized products) are in the hands of some obscure company that only creates problems for everyone, consumers and brand. In the gpu crisis this was even more clear, prices were even higher because of this exclusive distribution agents or whatever they are called.

In a market completely outside of tech i bought a product with a problem, the seller was 5 stars, the brand was 5 stars, all the problems came from the middle man, the exclusive distributor in my country. This is very common in my experience.
A Tesla is way way more expensive than any CPU part, the markup is not comparable to consumers pc part, so I don't think it would work the same.
 
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A Tesla is way way more expensive than any CPU part, the markup is not comparable to consumers pc part, so I don't think it would work the same.

I bough a EVGA card directly from EVGA. And it was a 350$ part.
 
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I bough a EVGA card directly from EVGA. And it was a 350$ part.
Wow expensive now what's a Tesla cost.

Can you buy a Tesla in most countries etc etc.
 
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A Tesla is way way more expensive than any CPU part, the markup is not comparable to consumers pc part, so I don't think it would work the same.
Wow expensive now what's a Tesla cost.

Pic a lane. You said it only worked for teslas because they were expensive, not for pc parts. I gave an example of a cheap pc part, now you complain it's not expensive. I'm really confused now.
 
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Pic a lane. You said it only worked for teslas because they were expensive, not for pc parts. I gave an example of a cheap pc part, now you complain it's not expensive. I'm really confused now.
No you missed my point ( my fault), you might be able to get one but it is not a global perspective, evga are unlikely to match Tesla in direct shipping to different countries, it's worth it for Tesla, not so for every pc component maker.

My price relative point was no pc part has enough markup to allow for a decent spread of RMA centers , offices etc where's Tesla's markup allows more.
 
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No you missed my point ( my fault), you might be able to get one but it is not a global perspective, evga are unlikely to match Tesla in direct shipping to different countries, it's worth it for Tesla, not so for every pc component maker.

My price relative point was no pc part has enough markup to allow for a decent spread of RMA centers , offices etc where's Tesla's markup allows more.

Sure, like i said not even Tesla managed to do it perfectly. But i do agree the user that said we really should find a solution to cut out the middle man. They take their cut and most of the times they are the more a source of trouble then customer satisfaction.
In the Tesla example anyone that dealt with car dealerships (new) knows how bad they usually are, and expensive.
 
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Sure, like i said not even Tesla managed to do it perfectly. But i do agree the user that said we really should find a solution to cut out the middle man. They take their cut and most of the times they are the more a source of trouble then customer satisfaction.
In the Tesla example anyone that dealt with car dealerships (news) knows i bad they usually are, and expensive.
The thing is, Tesla was about as well positioned to "disrupt" (god, how I hate that nonsensical buzzword) this system - and they still screwed it up. Their customer service is reportedly terrible, their delivery times are no shorter than those of others, and their cars aren't meaningfully cheaper than competitors. So, what's the effect of this? More profits to Tesla. I don't see that as a net benefit, sorry.

As to their advantages: they're massively cash rich, backed by a billionaire notoriously willing to spend his cash on risky ideas (and take the losses that often come from this), they've been working on vertical integration from the get-go, producing most of their components themselves (including various ICs) that other carmakers rely on third parties to make - which again lets Tesla in-house their service and support infrastructure, as they're not dependent on service personnell being trained by third parties. They're also selling high priced, low volume, high profit margin products, which are relatively easy to transport (in part because they can move on their own and are large enough to not require much additional packaging or other things making transport complicated, and there is an abundance of infrastructure already built up around transporting that type of product around the world).

And yet, they're barely managing to do an okay job. What this tells us is that for anyone without their advantages, such an undertaking would be essentially impossible. The only option then would be direct sales shipped from either a single centralized warehouse, or, if volumes allow, from a low number of regional warehouses. National level distribution and support would be impossible; retail would be impossible (if run on their own) or very complicated (if selling to other retailers, as supply deals would need to be negotiated with each). Of course, companies could band together to form some sort of organization or corporation that would do all of this work for them ... but that's a distributor. They already exist. And as they are for-profit entities, they extract profits from their work. I guess you could pitch the idea of starting a cooperatively run not-for-profit distribution company to various large tech companies, but I sincerely doubt they'd be willing to bankroll the costs of starting such an endeavor.

So, until the structures of global capitalism change fundamentally, this is a way of doing things that will not go away - unless you also want access to these goods to go away. Heck, it's even quite common for companies to just not sell their products in large parts of the world because they don't have a distribution network there - like Hynix SSDs in Europe. This tells us something about just how complicated that is, if you're willing to give up access to massive markets entirely just because you don't have distribution in place already.


@ARF Feel free to bring up any counterarguments you might have to what is being said here. I'd love to hear them. Those laughing reactions are a rather weak response ;)
 
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Sure, like i said not even Tesla managed to do it perfectly. But i do agree the user that said we really should find a solution to cut out the middle man. They take their cut and most of the times they are the more a source of trouble then customer satisfaction.
In the Tesla example anyone that dealt with car dealerships (new) knows how bad they usually are, and expensive.
So why are you suggesting Tesla showed the way.
I'm in the UK and The shortage wasn't just in your small(you say) country, it was everywhere, and for everyone, so no, getting rid of the middle man would do f all good, shit Nvidia sold so much direct to miner's it caused them a liable case in court.

You think Nvidia would ship 100000 cards to 100,000 different people all over the world or just one shipment to Dave the crypto miner?!.
 
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@Valantar
i see you know this stuff, mind you that for my part i didn't mean eliminate the retail, just the Wholesaler / Distributor

So why are you suggesting Tesla showed the way.
I'm in the UK and The shortage wasn't just in your small(you say) country, it was everywhere, and for everyone, so no, getting rid of the middle man would do f all good, shit Nvidia sold so much direct to miner's it caused them a liable case in court.

You think Nvidia would ship 100000 cards to 100,000 different people all over the world or just one shipment to Dave the crypto miner?!.

there is really no incentive in the long term for Nvidia to give them all their GPU's to miners, they know they will eventually go away, even if crypto was a sucess. Proof of stake and all that.
I also don't see them as more or less greedy then Wholesalers, they diverted large quantities of gpu's to miners, i know this for a fact from a store owner.
 
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