AMD Readies More Ryzen 5000X3D Processors?

[eazen]

You'll easily counter it?!? Muahahaha, you can't even do a simple deduction right (450-370)

Your website says 399 and 449$. On time also electric bill savings due to less power usage, the 5800X3D wins this. Intel has better CPUs, the 12600K and 12400F are both great value for gamers (and unparalleled).

 

[Count von Schwalbe]

I found an interesting review by AnandTech. Many applications are actually assisted by the extra L3, outweighing the small loss of frequency.

The AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D Review: 96 MB of L3 3D V-Cache Designed For Gamers

www.anandtech.com

 

[Mussels]

Depends how good your AM4 board is i guess, a cheap one meh, if it's a ROG etc maybe so.

Why?
Any AM4 board can run any AMD CPU at full native speed, the worst ones cant enable PBO without adding some form VRM cooling


as much as i hated my MSI B450M for its garbage VRM's for how it handled my overclcocked 1700x (Hint: it sucked at it) that same board ran every CPU i've ever tried on it at stock without issue (most power hungry was the 2700x, iirc), until i sold it off to a friend


It's not the same as intel where i3-i5-i7-i9 are different power categories, ryzen has the same wattage values from a 5800x to a 5950x - and those sane power limits mean that any board can handle them fine.

 

[Why_Me]

Your website says 399 and 449$. On time also electric bill savings due to less power usage, the 5800X3D wins this. Intel has better CPUs, the 12600K and 12400F are both great value for gamers (and unparalleled).

The 12700F says 'hi'.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

Why?
Any AM4 board can run any AMD CPU at full native speed, the worst ones cant enable PBO without adding some form VRM cooling


as much as i hated my MSI B450M for its garbage VRM's for how it handled my overclcocked 1700x (Hint: it sucked at it) that same board ran every CPU i've ever tried on it at stock without issue (most power hungry was the 2700x, iirc), until i sold it off to a friend


It's not the same as intel where i3-i5-i7-i9 are different power categories, ryzen has the same wattage values from a 5800x to a 5950x - and those sane power limits mean that any board can handle them fine.

Why would you buy a nice Ryzen and stick it in the cheapest board you can get though, even if it can run it as well as a better one. I notice you have a ROG board, why not a cheaper one, your board is kinda making my point

 

[Mussels]

Why would you buy a nice Ryzen and stick it in the cheapest board you can get though, even if it can run it as well as a better one. I notice you have a ROG board, why not a cheaper one, your board is kinda making my point

Because "nice" means nothing to most people?
If performance isn't altered, why spend more?

My X370, B450 ITX and x570 all give the exact same performance, other than the ITX not being able to overclock ram as high. It's been amazing when hardware has failed or my watercooling attempts failed even worse, because i could simply move my CPU and GPU over and get 100% performance off the other systems.

 

[ratirt]

Depends how good your AM4 board is i guess, a cheap one meh, if it's a ROG etc maybe so.

Not really. All boards AM4 are good and eligible for 5800x3d but since you have mentioned it, I cant say the same about Intel. Especially with boosting capabilities and power limits.
These can affect the way CPU boost when on B660 which people bring up since it is cheaper. You forgot to bring up the power limits on those boards. The B660 boards that have indefinite boost time are expensive and go over $150.

Well then it's not better in every metric is it. Gamers don't just use their PC's for games. What are you doing now? on TPU not gaming. There is more to a PC than games, some of which need a good general use CPU not one that has been modified to be better at one and worse at the rest. Guess which CPU i would pick?

No they don't they also browse internet and use PDF's or watch a movie or youtube. I don't think you would see difference in performance with any of the processors. These days are long gone.
You would see a difference in gaming that is for sure and that is what our colleague here is clinging to.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

All AM4 boards are good, sure I'll buy a £30 AM4 board and stick a 5800X3D it'll be fine eh. Sure most AM4 users who buy this CPU have low/mid range boards and just decide to switch out their low end CPU for the X3D, doesn't matter if the low end board has crappy VRMs or features. /s

Pretty sure most people who bought 5800x would have bought a half decent board in the first place.

What do I know anyway being just a scummy Intel user, guess I should just keep out of any AMD discussion in future, not sure I like getting my opinion stomped on.

/unwatch

 

[ratirt]

All AM4 boards are good, sure I'll buy a £30 AM4 board and stick a 5800X3D it'll be fine eh. Sure most AM4 users who buy this CPU have low/mid range boards and just decide to switch out their low end CPU for the X3D, doesn't matter if the low end board has crappy VRMs or features. /s

Pretty sure most people who bought 5800x would have bought a half decent board in the first place.

What do I know anyway being just a scummy Intel user, guess I should just keep out of any AMD discussion in future, not sure I like getting my opinion stomped on.

The features should be tailored to needs not which CPU you want to use with it. You can fully utilize 5800X3d on basically any AM4 board and features don't play a role here since these are preference for users or necessities they need. You don't have to keep out of AMD discussion threads. the problem is, you speak about Intel despite thread's subject and people seeing this take your stand as a fanboy. At least that's what I think.

 

[Why_Me]

The features should be tailored to needs not which CPU you want to use with it. You can fully utilize 5800X3d on basically any AM4 board and features don't play a role here since these are preference for users or necessities they need. You don't have to keep out of AMD discussion threads. the problem is, you speak about Intel despite thread's subject and people seeing this take your stand as a fanboy. At least that's what I think.

Had a poster on another board wanting to pair up a $450 5800X3D with his existing board .... a Gigabyte 450M DS3H. I was like ... try this instead.

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813144528
MSI MAG B660M BAZOOKA DDR4 $129.99

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/intel-core-i7-12700f-12th-generation-12-core-20-thread-2-1-to-4-9-ghz-lga1700-desktop-processor/6492586.p?skuId=6492586

Intel Core i7-12700F $315.99

 

[ratirt]

Had a poster on another board wanting to pair up a $450 5800X3D with his existing board .... a Gigabyte 450M DS3H. I was like ... try this instead.

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813144528
MSI MAG B660M BAZOOKA DDR4 $129.99

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/intel-core-i7-12700f-12th-generation-12-core-20-thread-2-1-to-4-9-ghz-lga1700-desktop-processor/6492586.p?skuId=6492586

Intel Core i7-12700F $315.99

Sure that is great and again, The bazooka has a power limit and it will drop the power delivery to 65W since it cant sustain long term power indefinitely (56 seconds short term is 170W if I'm not mistaken). You would have to go with way more expensive board to supply higher power to the CPU. With a 5800x3d, you literally can use a board that costs $90 and it will not impact the CPU's performance.
What this means is you lose performance.
What I dislike about this statements guys is, you pick features of premium motherboards (or reviews conducted with a premium board like ASUS Z690 Maximus Hero here at TPU's) and prices of the cheap ones and forget to mention the power limits and difference here which will make the 12700 frequency dip.
If you look at the TPUs 12900K's (no 12700 or F review here but other sites have it) performance while power constrained, you will know what I'm talking about and how much the performance drops while it happens. This situation is exactly what will happen to your 12700F when the 65W (spec of the CPU) power limit kicks with that board with the Bazooka board. So, this is a hidden performance loss which you guys don't mention.

In my eyes, that was a very bad advice.

 

[Why_Me]

Sure that is great and again, The bazooka has a power limit and it will drop the power delivery to 65W since it cant sustain long term power indefinitely (56 seconds short term is 170W if I'm not mistaken). You would have to go with way more expensive board to supply higher power to the CPU. With a 5800x3d, you literally can use a board that costs $90 and it will not impact the CPU's performance.
What this means is you lose performance.
What I dislike about this statements guys is, you pick features of premium motherboards (or reviews conducted with a premium board like ASUS Z690 Maximus Hero here at TPU's) and prices of the cheap ones and forget to mention the power limits and difference here which will make the 12700 frequency dip.
If you look at the TPUs 12900K's (no 12700 or F review here but other sites have it) performance while power constrained, you will know what I'm talking about and how much the performance drops while it happens. This situation is exactly what will happen to your 12700F when the 65W (spec of the CPU) power limit kicks with that board with the Bazooka board. So, this is a hidden performance loss which you guys don't mention.

In my eyes, that was a very bad advice.

That MSI Bazooka board I posted has a 12 + 2 power phase design. No problems with that board running an i7 all day long.

 

[ratirt]

That MSI Bazooka board I posted has a 12 + 2 power phase design. No problems with that board running an i7 all day long.

Sure but the 12700F will not do that either way because it is a locked CPU. Even though the board can sustain it you cant override the CPU. You could though, but the board will cost as much as the CPU itself. You can trust me (I doubt you will) or just read reviews about it. Then, if you compare 5800x3d to this situation and it's price, it looks very compelling in games. Not to mention, the power consumption but you don't care about that do you?

 

[Why_Me]

Sure but the 12700F will not do that either way because it is a locked CPU. Even though the board can sustain it you cant override the CPU. You could though, but the board will cost as much as the CPU itself. You can trust me (I doubt you will) or just read reviews about it. Then, if you compare 5800x3d to this situation and it's price, it looks very compelling in games. Not to mention, the power consumption but you don't care about that do you?

Intel Core i7-12700 + Intel B660 Review

Today we have a combo review of all-new Intel hardware, our first look at the affordable Intel B660 platform, the non-K Core i7-12700 and Intel's latest box...

www.techspot.com

 

[ratirt]

Intel Core i7-12700 + Intel B660 Review

Today we have a combo review of all-new Intel hardware, our first look at the affordable Intel B660 platform, the non-K Core i7-12700 and Intel's latest box...

www.techspot.com

The dispute was between 5800x3d and 12700F non F version being the latter one better since it is cheaper and works with B660 board using DDR4
So here it is.

 

[efikkan]

A 5600X3D is probably the only model that would have made sense with 3D cache, even more than the current 5800X3D, providing it can retain decent clocks.

I actually think it wouldn't be too late to release a 5600X3D now, if priced correctly, as DDR5 availability and pricing is still an issue. For a while, budget buyers might be able to buy DDR4 fairly cheaply, along with a good motherboard selection to do a good value gaming build.

It will create internal competition - why does AMD insist to produce two lineups with approximately equal or similar performance characteristics?
Zen 3 3D =~ Zen 4.

I seriously doubt Zen 4 will have similar characteristics to a Zen 3 3D, as the 3D cache only help select workloads (a few games and some others) while the lower clocks reduces the overall performance across the board. Zen 4 will probably offer gains to a wide variety of workloads.

 

[Count von Schwalbe]

I seriously doubt Zen 4 will have similar characteristics to a Zen 3 3D, as the 3D cache only help select workloads (a few games and some others) while the lower clocks reduces the overall performance across the board. Zen 4 will probably offer gains to a wide variety of workloads.

I agree with this, but I think that people are overstating the slight loss in performance of the X3D. Also, what about Ryzen 7000X3D? Who knows what that will bring, especially if L3 voltage is independent from the rest and they can be overclocked...

 

[Pictus]

The 5800x3d is faster at games, nothing else. Even the 5800 no 3D is not faster than a 12700k.

AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D Continues Showing Much Potential For 3D V-Cache In Technical Computing

 

[Butrus]

There’s no point in designing a cpu without L3 cache, 3DV cache is more complicated and more expensive to include, so all CPUs will always have L3 cache and 3DVcache is just optional and additional.

First of all, I was talking about the CPU-chiplet and of course there is a point to remove the L3 from the CPU chiplet - to make room for more cores.
You are wrong that it is more complicate, on contrary, having L3 on a separate die allows for process optimization so that you "get more" from the same die size.
And of course a CPU-only chiplet + L3 chiplet is cheaper than two CPU+L3 chiplets...

But wait some time and you will see...

 

[Count von Schwalbe]

First of all, I was talking about the CPU-chiplet and of course there is a point to remove the L3 from the CPU chiplet - to make room for more cores.
You are wrong that it is more complicate, on contrary, having L3 on a separate die allows for process optimization so that you "get more" from the same die size.
And of course a CPU-only chiplet + L3 chiplet is cheaper than two CPU+L3 chiplets...

But wait some time and you will see...

I cannot see that AMD could achieve acceptable L3 latencies by using another chiplet.

 

[efikkan]

Also, what about Ryzen 7000X3D? Who knows what that will bring, especially if L3 voltage is independent from the rest and they can be overclocked...

I believe that will arrive later than the initial Zen 4 products.
But no one without real experience with this architecture can tell precisely how much the extra L3 will help this architecture vs. Zen 3. If Zen 4 only changed e.g. the L2 cache, we would expect the strain on L3 to lessen, and therefore the benefit of higher L3 too. But I expect Zen 4 to rebalance most of the design, so we can't know whether the L3 becomes less or more useful.
But we can know that larger L3 is not going to make a massive difference for most workloads, as L3 is a spillover cache, and many workloads will be largely unaffected.

 

[Pictus]

UPDATE:
Scan 5800X3D DAWbench, different from the German magazine, not good results.

DAWBench DSP / VI Universal - Cross Platform DAW Benchmarks : - Page 30 - Gearspace

Hey All, Quick heads up for the latest DAWbench Radio Show Episode. Music Tech Pioneers III : Sequential Circuits : Rise, Fall, Return ! 'UMII , You Me ' Uploaded Now across all of the major pod casting platforms. A few links below , but easily found on most others with a search. Podcast Home...

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