5950x and PBO overheated something or busted custom loop?

[Ferrum Master]

If you mean regarding the block reassembly? I just do it by hand being careful not to overtighten them, approximating the torque I needed to remove them. I didn't have any leaks or cracks in the acrylic of any of my blocks so far. I should probably get the right tool for it for the long term. I don't know the numbers.

Actually I had a crack on mine. The V shaped screws are not welcome on the block edges. I haven't touched the block and put it on without any checking after the purchase, after a year a so I moved to a new PC case and redid my loop and noticed a crack developing. On the newer models they do not use V shaped grooves anymore and use normal screws. I guess they learned it the hard way also.

Long story short, they sent me a new block, all fine with EK support, now I put washers a top. But the story is, I've asked for the torque pressure settings that are not mentioned anywhere. Those are 0.6Nm-0.8Nm and that's rather tight. Keep a note on that, if you have a dyno screwdriver use it, replace the screws and put some washers.

It might be you really lack pressure on the VRM parts also.

 

[A Computer Guy]

Actually I had a crack on mine. The V shaped screws are not welcome on the block edges. I haven't touched the block and put it on without any checking after the purchase, after a year a so I moved to a new PC case and redid my loop and noticed a crack developing. On the newer models they do not use V shaped grooves anymore and use normal screws. I guess they learned it the hard way also.

Funny thing I found that monoblock by mistake and it was on sale on the cheap in the clearance section at EK at the time so I figured hey why not give it a try. By V shaped you mean the head of the screw? I'm pretty sure my are straight but the head is v shaped and recessed. To my knowledge the screws only need to be tight enough evenly across the block to get the gaskets to seal. You don't need to crush the gaskets and of course too tight and the acrylic will crack.

Long story short, they sent me a new block, all fine with EK support, now I put washers a top. But the story is, I've asked for the torque pressure settings that are not mentioned anywhere. Those are 0.6Nm-0.8Nm and that's rather tight. Keep a note on that, if you have a dyno screwdriver use it, replace the screws and put some washers.

It might be you really lack pressure on the VRM parts also.

Yea that was on my mind. The VRM's even with the monoblock always did seem a bit high but it was manageable.

At this point if my board is toast it won't matter.

Now I'm not sure if I want to get a CPU block so I have to research what will fit in an original 011D case for a 5950x
but on the other hand all I need is a CPU block now if I reuse everything else (except new mb) as I don't have a suitable air cooler on hand and EK only makes x570 monoblocks for non-asrock boards now and none for B550.

- Quantum Magnitude (wallet raping expensive)
or
- EK-Quantum Velocity² (this looks like it might be good for 5950x but I'm not sure I like the mounting, similar to the monoblock mounting per the diagrams)
or
- EK-Quantum Velocity (looks like the affordable option) and there are some on sale now too. only $45 for EK-Quantum Velocity - AMD Nickel + Plexi. They want another $42 just for RGB...no thanks, I'll take the non-RGB this time.

 

[tabascosauz]

Funny thing I found that monoblock by mistake and it was on sale on the cheap in the clearance section at EK at the time so I figured hey why not give it a try. By V shaped you mean the head of the screw? I'm pretty sure my are straight but the head is v shaped and recessed. To my knowledge the screws only need to be tight enough evenly across the block to get the gaskets to seal. You don't need to crush the gaskets and of course too tight and the acrylic will crack.

Yea that was on my mind. The VRM's even with the monoblock always did seem a bit high but it was manageable.

At this point if my board is toast it won't matter.

Now I'm not sure if I want to get a CPU block so I have to research what will fit in an original 011D case for a 5950x
but on the other hand all I need is a CPU block now if I reuse everything else (except new mb) as I don't have a suitable air cooler on hand and EK only makes x570 monoblocks for non-asrock boards now and none for B550.

- Quantum Magnitude (wallet raping expensive)
or
- EK-Quantum Velocity² (this looks like it might be good for 5950x but I'm not sure I like the mounting, similar to the monoblock mounting per the diagrams)
or
- EK-Quantum Velocity (looks like the affordable option) and there are some on sale now too. only $45 for EK-Quantum Velocity - AMD Nickel + Plexi. They want another $42 just for RGB...no thanks, I'll take the non-RGB this time.

The new Velocity seems pretty competitive if you get it for the right price.

Otherwise the top tier blocks for AM4 should still be Optimus Foundation and TechN AM4. I have the Optimus, a real tank of a block.

The monoblocks are nice, but all the higher end B550 or X570 boards have such overkill VRMs for AM4 that you may as well take the extra performance from a top block.

AM5 seems to preserve cooler compatibility as well, so you could keep that block for next gen too.

 

[Ferrum Master]

Funny thing I found that monoblock by mistake and it was on sale on the cheap in the clearance section at EK at the time so I figured hey why not give it a try. By V shaped you mean the head of the screw? I'm pretty sure my are straight but the head is v shaped and recessed. To my knowledge the screws only need to be tight enough evenly across the block to get the gaskets to seal. You don't need to crush the gaskets and of course too tight and the acrylic will crack.

Yea that was on my mind. The VRM's even with the monoblock always did seem a bit high but it was manageable.

At this point if my board is toast it won't matter.

Now I'm not sure if I want to get a CPU block so I have to research what will fit in an original 011D case for a 5950x
but on the other hand all I need is a CPU block now if I reuse everything else (except new mb) as I don't have a suitable air cooler on hand and EK only makes x570 monoblocks for non-asrock boards now and none for B550.

- Quantum Magnitude (wallet raping expensive)
or
- EK-Quantum Velocity² (this looks like it might be good for 5950x but I'm not sure I like the mounting, similar to the monoblock mounting per the diagrams)
or
- EK-Quantum Velocity (looks like the affordable option) and there are some on sale now too. only $45 for EK-Quantum Velocity - AMD Nickel + Plexi. They want another $42 just for RGB...no thanks, I'll take the non-RGB this time.

Yes, the head of the screw. The Arclyc has a groove also. Well I haven't looked on your block to be sure, but mine did have V shaped ones and that's strange.

I have a 011D. My body is ready for new GPUs series needing two PSU's to run it lol. You are free to ask any questions regarding custom loop in it. It still has some unpleasant surprises.

EK EK... but those are shit for CPU temps... I'm sorry but it is what it is. I had a Aquacomputer cuplex kryos NEXT for my old X99 platform. In their store a saw a retrofit for 15€, they sell new mounts for AM4 to use your old block, and damn even an angled one to have the jet point on the dies... I sold the block and made the assembly on the client's PC, also a custom loop. The temps were so much better than mine, I had a sellers remorse ffs...

Just use a proper CPU waterblock and leave the stock VRM heatsinks on, just buy a decent mobo, that doesn't have problems with VRM temps.

 

[A Computer Guy]

Just use a proper CPU waterblock and leave the stock VRM heatsinks on, just buy a decent mobo, that doesn't have problems with VRM temps.

Yea I'm just grinding my teeth now because I really dislike the x570 chipset fan.
https://www.newegg.com/asrock-x570-pg-velocita/p/N82E16813157969 is on my mind a the moment and one of the more recent x570 boards.

 

[Chomiq]

Yea I'm just grinding my teeth now because I really dislike the x570 chipset fan.
https://www.newegg.com/asrock-x570-pg-velocita/p/N82E16813157969 is on my mind a the moment and one of the more recent x570 boards.

People really need to take their heads out of their a**es. There's nothing wrong with X570 having a fan on the chipset if that fan sits idle 99% of the time. It's been 3 years already.

 

[tabascosauz]

Yea I'm just grinding my teeth now because I really dislike the x570 chipset fan.
https://www.newegg.com/asrock-x570-pg-velocita/p/N82E16813157969 is on my mind a the moment and one of the more recent x570 boards.

If you really dislike the PCH fan, the X570S Tomahawk is on Newegg for 10 bucks more at $229. I'd take that any day over the Velocita, MSI's BIOS fan control UI is great. tbh with ASRock I'd either take the Steel Legend for value, or the Taichi. Everything else in between is basically a marked up, copy-paste rehash of the Steel Legend in different colours.

PG Velocita is "new" in that it released concurrently with B550 basically, but that's still pretty old compared to X570S and second-wave B550 boards.

MSI MAG X570S TOMAHAWK MAX WIFI AM4 ATX AMD Motherboard - Newegg.com

The fan isn't really a big deal, but not all board makers have the same control over its behaviour and fanspeed, so best way to ensure it isn't a problem is still either B550 or X570S. On the Impact I have both of mine tiny fans (PCH and VRM) at a low speed, but out of the box they do spin pretty fast.

 

[Ferrum Master]

Yea I'm just grinding my teeth now because I really dislike the x570 chipset fan.
https://www.newegg.com/asrock-x570-pg-velocita/p/N82E16813157969 is on my mind a the moment and one of the more recent x570 boards.

I have a above average hearing in few dB than average people, I really don't notice it in my Asus X570-E, the pump being the loudest part while idle.

 

[A Computer Guy]

EK EK... but those are shit for CPU temps... I'm sorry but it is what it is. I had a Aquacomputer cuplex kryos NEXT for my old X99 platform. In their store a saw a retrofit for 15€, they sell new mounts for AM4 to use your old block, and damn even an angled one to have the jet point on the dies... I sold the block and made the assembly on the client's PC, also a custom loop. The temps were so much better than mine, I had a sellers remorse ffs...

I started with EK as a noob. So far it's been ok for me but to their credit when DHL delivered my distroplate to east junhunga instead of my house, and then refused to go get it back, EK did send me a new one free of charge via UPS. This is probably my first and only water-cooled build I will ever do but it's been fun. I'll probably switch to primochill tubing when my current tubing has had enough because I didn't realize ZMT didn't come in the size for my current fittings.

 

[Ferrum Master]

I started with EK as a noob. So far it's been ok for me but to their credit when DHL delivered my distroplate to east junhunga instead of my house, and then refused to go get it back, EK did send me a new one free of charge via UPS. This is probably my first and only water-cooled build I will ever do but it's been fun. I'll probably switch to primochill tubing when my current tubing has had enough because I didn't realize ZMT didn't come in the size for my current fittings.

I use Tygon R3400 tubing for mine... don't overcomplicate things.

 

[A Computer Guy]

If you really dislike the PCH fan, the X570S Tomahawk is on Newegg for 10 bucks more at $229. I'd take that any day over the Velocita, MSI's BIOS fan control UI is great. tbh with ASRock I'd either take the Steel Legend for value, or the Taichi. Everything else in between is basically a marked up, copy-paste rehash of the Steel Legend in different colours.

PG Velocita is "new" in that it released concurrently with B550 basically, but that's still pretty old compared to X570S and second-wave B550 boards.

MSI MAG X570S TOMAHAWK MAX WIFI AM4 ATX AMD Motherboard - Newegg.com

The fan isn't really a big deal, but not all board makers have the same control over its behaviour and fanspeed, so best way to ensure it isn't a problem is still either B550 or X570S. On the Impact I have both of mine tiny fans (PCH and VRM) at a low speed, but out of the box they do spin pretty fast.

The thing is have already invested quite a bit in ECC RAM and my trust in ASRock implementing that is pretty solid right now.
I don't think MSI offers ECC but I haven't seen their recent offerings although I like their Tomahawk series.
Asrock X570s board isn't appealing to me and is a no go.
Taichi X570 was going to be my other consideration but pricy, maybe the B550 of that.

Perhaps I'll take a harder look at Steel Legend.

ASRock X570 STEEL LEGEND WIFI AX AM4 ATX AMD Motherboard - Newegg.com

Buy ASRock X570 STEEL LEGEND WIFI AX AM4 AMD X570 SATA 6Gb/s ATX AMD Motherboard with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

www.newegg.com

- WiFi & Intel LAN check
- ECC check
- 128GB ram check + bonus
- 2 NVMe check
- Seems fairly priced
- PCI Express 4.0 x16 (bonus)

 

[Zach_01]

TDC has absolutely nothing to do with VRM OCP. SVI2 and Ryzen is smart, it's not omniscient. Everything in the past 3 years just points to TDC being a long-term counterpart to EDC.

In theory, PROCHOT EXT (external) sounds like a way for external sources to throttle the CPU

Another explanation I found

Thermal design current is the sustained (DC equivalent) current that a load is capable of drawing indefinitely and defines the current to use for voltage regulator temperature calculations.

I’ve read (from HWiNFO author) that PROCHOT EXT can be triggered by VRM overheating but I was under the impression that this will happen at a certain very high limit which can be well over 100C as it’s usually the typical max temp of VRMs. At least for the good ones…

—————————————

BTW the Ryzen CPU is alleged to be smart enough to protect and regulate it self no matter what are the PBO limits, though personally I do question this after CO/PBO era of 5000.
And we saw many times that boards are driving the CPU beyond stock limits and while those limits are enabled too. (see PowerReportingDaviation for 1 example).

And of course ”common sense” is always needed besides the CPU “intelligence“.
IMHO a board can do harm to it self or the CPU if you leave it “free” while playing with CO/PBO/scalar.
The user is the one that should set the limits, and not the board. Also the user must lower expectations and GHz hunting

_________________________

Also X570nonS is just fine. With the right air flow that little fan never works and temp stays under 60 at loaded situations.

 

[Valantar]

Another explanation I found

Thermal design current is the sustained (DC equivalent) current that a load is capable of drawing indefinitely and defines the current to use for voltage regulator temperature calculations.

I’ve read (from HWiNFO author) that PROCHOT EXT can be triggered by VRM overheating but I was under the impression that this will happen at a certain very high limit which can be well over 100C as it’s usually the typical max temp of VRMs. At least for the good ones…

What this tells us is that for motherboards without DrMOS/smart power stages (i.e. simpler VRMs without thermal sensors), VRM temperatures can be estimated through an equation based on TDC. That is of course dependent on the motherboard making such a calculation and having some kind of protetction mechanism linked to this - the CPU can't, as the equation will vary dependent on the VRM layout.

BTW the Ryzen CPU is alleged to be smart enough to protect and regulate it self no matter what are the PBO limits, though personally I do question this after CO/PBO era of 5000.
And we saw many times that boards are driving the CPU beyond stock limits and while those limits are enabled too. (see PowerReportingDaviation for 1 example).

And of course ”common sense” is always needed besides the CPU “intelligence“.
IMHO a board can do harm to it self or the CPU if you leave it “free” while playing with CO/PBO/scalar.
The user is the one that should set the limits, and not the board. Also the user must lower expectations and GHz hunting

The CPU should absolutely be able to self-regulate and protect itself, but it can't protect the VRM, as the VRM isn't controlled by the CPU's protection circuitry.

 

[phill]

I find with any of the AM4 boards I have, I always have gone over spec for what they are doing simply because, I'd rather spend a few quid more on the board to make sure it'll do everything and more than I'd like than not spend out a few quid.

Even buying second hand boards I've had no issues with them, so I'm either very lucky or just staying in spec lol With any sort of testing and such, always keep an eye on your temps for VRMs and of course CPU and such like.. if a temp starts rocketing up, there's a reason and generally cooling/capability will be your limiting factor.

Have you got anything in mind of what you'd look at to replace it??

 

[maxfly]

I started with EK as a noob. So far it's been ok for me but to their credit when DHL delivered my distroplate to east junhunga instead of my house, and then refused to go get it back, EK did send me a new one free of charge via UPS. This is probably my first and only water-cooled build I will ever do but it's been fun. I'll probably switch to primochill tubing when my current tubing has had enough because I didn't realize ZMT didn't come in the size for my current fittings.

EK blocks are solid performers but generally stupid expensive. If you can get one on the cheap, do it. Finding ANY top tier blocks for a reasonable price is next to impossible now and considering they are all within a couple of degrees of one another, your down to cs, warranty and trust.
You can't go wrong with primochill lrt. Its easily the best soft tubing I've ever used and I've tried just about all of them. If your a miser (like me) or know exactly what you need, ppcs sells it by the foot to save a few bucks.

But man, I'm truly shocked that Asrock jacked that mb up like that! Pulling that kind of bs is criminal in my book, particularly if it damaged other gear. I look forward to seeing what your cooked vrms look like in that morbid geeky way we all enjoy. I especially look forward to your posting said pics/results and your story to their social media pages. If for nothing else than to see what they have to say about the vrm bs. If they respond at all. Probably the latter I'm guessing.
GL with the mb search!

 

[A Computer Guy]

EK blocks are solid performers but generally stupid expensive. If you can get one on the cheap, do it. Finding ANY top tier blocks for a reasonable price is next to impossible now and considering they are all within a couple of degrees of one another, your down to cs, warranty and trust.
You can't go wrong with primochill lrt. Its easily the best soft tubing I've ever used and I've tried just about all of them. If your a miser (like me) or know exactly what you need, ppcs sells it by the foot to save a few bucks.

But man, I'm truly shocked that Asrock jacked that mb up like that! Pulling that kind of bs is criminal in my book, particularly if it damaged other gear. I look forward to seeing what your cooked vrms look like in that morbid geeky way we all enjoy. I especially look forward to your posting said pics/results and your story to their social media pages. If for nothing else than to see what they have to say about the vrm bs. If they respond at all. Probably the latter I'm guessing.
GL with the mb search!

I completed the teardown just now. Hopefully I'll be able to post the pictures soon. To keep everyone in suspense VRM's actually look fine but oh boy the CPU socket was melted to the CPU. I can't wait to post the pictures.

 

[maxfly]

I completed the teardown just now. Hopefully I'll be able to post the pictures soon. To keep everyone in suspense VRM's actually look fine but oh boy the CPU socket was melted to the CPU. I can't wait to post the pictures.

Oh no. That's horrendous man! Absolutely worst case scenario.
I feel terrible for you

 

[A Computer Guy]

I don't have time to post everything just yet but here is a picture of the CPU and socket. After about 30mins of very careful prying, I managed to extract the chip without breaking any pins.

 

[Deleted member 185158]

Wow. AsRock keeps their reputation through the years.

 

[mstenholm]

So go-fast stribes doesn’t work in real life? @A Computer Guy I hope that your CPU is still good.

 

[maxfly]

I don't have time to post everything just yet but here is a picture of the CPU and socket. After about 30mins of very careful prying, I managed to extract the chip without breaking any pins.

View attachment 256439

Damn... that's some of the worst damage I've seen in a very long time (to a modern cpu). It actually caught on fire, unfuckingbelievable! That's a lot of dough to have to choke down because of a shitty mb.

 

[A Computer Guy]

3 washes later.... it cleaned up nicely, looks like 1 pin lost a bit of gold.

The monoblock VRM thermal pads were intact but you can see that the mounting pressure in the middle looks insufficient for the thermal pad thickness EK recommended.

Here is a image of the rear side of the board

Another angle of the topside (in sunlight)

During my teardown I'd figure I'd capture an image of how I keep my RGB extension cables from falling apart using 4 zip ties.

Using slim fans at the bottom of 011D when ATX motherboard is installed you can see how it gives you some comfortable room at the bottom of the case for cable access.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Yep looks like the board bent think that bad spot was there out of the box or heat cause that :/
Could need a back plate as well.

I've used a few mono blocks and they are a pita even more so if you don't prep the back of the case so you can easily remove it without removing the board.

 

[A Computer Guy]

GPU block looking good on rx5000 reference card $280 newegg special. Best deal ever right before the GPU price hikes. I regret not buying 2.
The blower cooler was total crap after a few months so this card will never be air cooled again.

Hi,
Yep looks like the board bent think that bad spot was there out of the box or heat cause that :/
Could need a back plate as well.

I've used a few mono blocks and they are a pita even more so if you don't prep the back of the case so you can easily remove it without removing the board.

I did have a CPU back plate for the monoblock. Pretty sure it ended up acting like a heat sink for a few seconds.

 

[tabascosauz]

The thing is have already invested quite a bit in ECC RAM and my trust in ASRock implementing that is pretty solid right now.
I don't think MSI offers ECC but I haven't seen their recent offerings although I like their Tomahawk series.
Asrock X570s board isn't appealing to me and is a no go.
Taichi X570 was going to be my other consideration but pricy, maybe the B550 of that.

Perhaps I'll take a harder look at Steel Legend.

ASRock X570 STEEL LEGEND WIFI AX AM4 ATX AMD Motherboard - Newegg.com

Buy ASRock X570 STEEL LEGEND WIFI AX AM4 AMD X570 SATA 6Gb/s ATX AMD Motherboard with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

www.newegg.com

- WiFi & Intel LAN check
- ECC check
- 128GB ram check + bonus
- 2 NVMe check
- Seems fairly priced
- PCI Express 4.0 x16 (bonus)

All B550 and X570s offer a single x16 lane of PCIe 4.0. If you're referring to the second x16 slot, it looks to be wired electrically for x4 on most of these boards.

Practically, the only thing the X570 offers is a second 4.0 x4 NVMe slot, the B550 will only have one 4.0 slot. If you don't need that, you won't lose out with B550.

X570 and B550 Steel Legend have no BIOS flashback so if somehow you get old stock without a bootable BIOS for 5950X, you'll have to return it. Fortunately that should be exceedingly unlikely for both boards, since they've always been popular boards moving a lot of stock. PG Velocita does have BIOS flashback, all things considered it isn't that bad of a deal at the $210 sale price, since it is also a 6-layer board over the 4-layer (albeit excellent 4-layer) Steel Legend.