The EU Proposes New Mobile Device Regulation to Extend Product Life Time

[Aquinus]

Plus battery tech is advancing about as fase as combustion engine tech, IE barely.

So to me a moot point.

I think the point is that as phones become more efficient, we can get away with smaller batteries which use less materials that we're worried about.

 

[usiname]

What prevents you from not buying expensive solutions? Vote with your wallet!

That is what I am doing, but its not enough. Fewer and fewer spare parts are now available and things only get worse

 

[zlobby]

That is what I am doing, but its not enough. Fewer and fewer spare parts are now available and things only get worse

Me too. But refer to my posts about control (or the illusion thereof).

I meant that we need batteries with greater energy density by volume and weight, not necessarily larger.

Li-S, For example:

"Li–S batteries offer specific energies on the order of 550 WH/kg while lithium-ion batteries are in the range of 150–260 Wh/kg."

With that density, you would have a battery of 10000Mha of weight and volume similar to current technology. Unfortunately, these things never seem to become commercially viable.

Doesn't it bother you why? I know it bothers me.

 

[lexluthermiester]

At face value, I would agree, however I think it doesn't consider the negative side-effects of maintaining a supply chain for parts that may no longer be manufactured because there is a better solution used in newer products.

That will require them to change their business model to be more sustainable and long term focused.

Something like this would require manufacturers to continue producing old tech for the sake being able to continue using old devices.

Of course, you say that like it's a bad thing.. I have a pair of laptops that are 12 and 9 years old respectively. They work perfectly and I will not throw them away just because they're older tech. Replacement batteries? Yes thank you!

So while it might reduce general waste of entire devices, it'll definitely accelerate the waste produced by the replaced parts, like older battery tech.

I don't think so. I've seen too many examples of tech reuse that save much more than it used. I have laptops that have had battery replacements and those batteries were recycled. Same with a few phones. My current phone has a replaceable battery and I've done so once. Batteries are ridiculously easy to recycle.

Case in point.

You going to make a tangible point based in reality or just continue being pedantic?

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

It's not just our phones. The Matrix quote above nails it.
And it's not just a thought experiment - ditch your car, your phone, your laptop, your electricity and live like that for the rest of your life. Then and only then I'll will agree your are not in control of machines. Only not! Other will still continue using machines (weapons incl.) and then again machines will have control over you, one way or another.

So your basically suggesting we give up tool use and crack on In control at last.

Is it beyond you to understand some see these things as tools, and personally I don't carry a hammer around or use one continuously.

The pernitous bit is the data, that's keeping us glued to tech beyond sense at times.
Take away the net as I did in Newquay and see how fast these things become tools or toy's.

Tech doesn't control anything, data perhaps might try.

 

[TheUn4seen]

First of all, the devices people got with their contract as "free" were just paid for as an additional charge in said contract - often the total paid in such charges is much higher than what one would pay for the phone in a normal shop. My Note 10+ was "free" on contract, but when I got the same contract as a "bring your own device", the monthly payment was lower by an amount which, over two years, added up to three times what I paid for the same device in a nearby electronics store. I find it weird that many people still seem to not understand this.

Other than that, I wholeheartedly agree that manufacturers forcing obsolescence by withholding access to replacement parts for users and third party repair shops have to be forced into submission. Personally I don't care for software updates but getting a new, good quality battery from a reasonable source, something that should be simple and obvious, takes much more effort and money than it ought to.

 

[AusWolf]

What about changeable batteries like in the good old times? No need to reinvent the wheel, imo.

 

[lexluthermiester]

What about changeable batteries like in the good old times? No need to reinvent the wheel, imo.

That's part of what this is about. Sustainable tech, replaceable batteries included.

 

[AusWolf]

That's part of what this is about. Sustainable tech, replaceable batteries included.

I mean, replaceable by the user, not the manufacturer.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I mean, replaceable by the user, not the manufacturer.

Yes, exactly, like things once were. Sometimes to take a step forward, we have to take a step back.

 

[Jism]

I want just cheap batteries, 40-50$ for new smartphone batterie with 5000mah is ridiculous. I can get 10 qualitative 18650 with 3400mah for this money, I doubt the form factor to make the bateries 7-8 times more expensive, this is just milking

Lol,

its the same as automotive. The profit on selling cars is really within selling parts for repair.

 

[AusWolf]

Yes, exactly, like things once were. Sometimes to take a step forward, we have to take a step back.

Agreed. And sometimes, a step that seems to point forward actually points backwards = not all progress is positive.

 

[zlobby]

That will require them to change their business model to be more sustainable and long term focused.

Of course, you say that like it's a bad thing.. I have a pair of laptops that are 12 and 9 years old respectively. They work perfectly and I will not throw them away just because they're older tech. Replacement batteries? Yes thank you!

I don't think so. I've seen too many examples of tech reuse that save much more than it used. I have laptops that have had battery replacements and those batteries were recycled. Same with a few phones. My current phone has a replaceable battery and I've done so once. Batteries are ridiculously easy to recycle.


You going to make a tangible point based in reality or just continue being pedantic?

So your basically suggesting we give up tool use and crack on In control at last.

Is it beyond you to understand some see these things as tools, and personally I don't carry a hammer around or use one continuously.

The pernitous bit is the data, that's keeping us glued to tech beyond sense at times.
Take away the net as I did in Newquay and see how fast these things become tools or toy's.

Tech doesn't control anything, data perhaps might try.

I feel I owe you an apology. We have a rule. We never free a mind once it reached a certain age. It's dangerous, the mind has trouble letting go. I've seen it before and I'm sorry. I did what I did because, I had to.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I feel I owe you an apology. We have a rule. We never free a mind once it reached a certain age. It's dangerous, the mind has trouble letting go. I've seen it before and I'm sorry. I did what I did because, I had to.

Oh please. Don't quote such an awesome movie so wildly out of context and so blatantly off-topic. You clearly have no idea what enlightenment is. Do stop.

 

[Shihab]

Well, the EU likes to ask first, before enforcing things by making it a law.

Because bureaucracy alone isn't slow enough...

...or maybe it's newer technology that uses less power than older devices. Things like that can make newer devices not need batteries that are as big as their predecessors for the same kind of battery life. It's that kind of thing that I think will make a difference. Not easily replaceable parts for older devices that are less efficient.

Two words: Jevons paradox.
Hardware efficiency -measured for individual components- may have increased, but overall platform efficiency is more or less the same.
So one might argue, if recharge-to-recharge duration is the objective function, that strapping a new (read: bigger, more efficient to pack/manufacturer) battery to an old device would actually be better than shipping it in a new one.

 

[Ferrum Master]

What a bullshit proposal totally disconnected from the reality.

If we look at mature manufacturers their battery cycle time is around 1000 already.

The thing that differs is google core apps itself. Over the years google basic services grow and consume much more CPU cycles as they did and naturally storage as they did when you bought the device. Basically even if you flash your first ROM after google updates to ensure all security and bling compatibility they will explode and make the phone crawl again. Some feature phones gimp on system storage partition and after updates there ain't much even left rendering the unit a ewaste. When a customer asks for battery exchange in 90% cases it ain't the battery. Just app usage or water damage, just a silly person, that expects much more with few hour onscreen time surfing Tiktok, YT etc bullshit.

There is already stock for parts for most 10+ year phones, no problem. Just pay. But no one does as simply the bill costs more than the unit itself? Exception is insurance and extended warranty that many people do these days.

What kind idiot made the proposal that already is freely obtainable already . There are few spare part exceptions that ended up because of accidents like main warehouse fire etc or simply all those parts rot away, like memory/CPU plagued units.

From environmental point of view, forcing to handle milions excessive sparts would induce such a spike of plastics usage for packaging that never would justify the savings from prolonging life of one random user.

Solution? Enforce buyback program that already works.

 

[Space Lynx]

What a bullshit proposal totally disconnected from the reality.

If we look at mature manufacturers their battery cycle time is around 1000 already.

The thing that differs is google core apps itself. Over the years google basic services grow and consume much more CPU cycles as they did and naturally storage as they did when you bought the device. Basically even if you flash your first ROM after google updates to ensure all security and bling compatibility they will explode and make the phone crawl again. Some feature phones gimp on system storage partition and after updates there ain't much even left rendering the unit a ewaste. When a customer asks for battery exchange in 90% cases it ain't the battery. Just app usage or water damage, just a silly person, that expects much more with few hour onscreen time surfing Tiktok, YT etc bullshit.

There is already stock for parts for most 10+ year phones, no problem. Just pay. But no one does as simply the bill costs more than the unit itself? Exception is insurance and extended warranty that many people do these days.

What kind idiot made the proposal that already is freely obtainable already . There are few spare part exceptions that ended up because of accidents like main warehouse fire etc or simply all those parts rot away, like memory/CPU plagued units.

I disagree with you. Samsung phones released this year come with 4 OS yearly updates and 5 years of security updates, and Samsung is already working with ifxit on battery replacement as well, its not avaiable yet for my particular model, but some models are already avaiable.

So technically speaking, we are already there if you buy right and make sure your model will be supported by ifxit with official kits... although I admit, Samsung really needs to expand its model avaiablity to ifxit in a more broad way, and not force bundle the screen and battery together on ifixit together. https://www.ifixit.com/collaborations/samsung

Once ifixit and samsung allow for battery only kits for many models, and those models now do support 4 years OS and 5 years security... I mean yeah EU doesn't even need to ask, we are already there. why would I give my money to anyone else when I know this is already a thing.

 

[Ferrum Master]

I disagree with you

You are free. But you ain't the one 15years in mobile service tech as a manufacturer official. Nobody will bat an eye on those kits as a mere consumer. Cheapskates are everywhere, but the the effort really is a total miss for an average customer and their upgrade patterns. This all movement is totally useless 99,99% of population.

As I said... those upgrade cycles are useless also, because google expands itself, you cannot hold progress. What's the point of releasing a fresh OS on a hardware that lacks needed HW features and you have to do it brute force. It will work slower. People actually tend to stick to older releases because of performance reasons.

Or you are saying OK, lets push them to compile the shit code on any arch without thinking. We made our promise, who cares how. That's not how it works. Security updates are another thing. But it should be already solved if we look at Google GSI images.

 

[Aquinus]

So one might argue, if recharge-to-recharge duration is the objective function, that strapping a new (read: bigger, more efficient to pack/manufacturer) battery to an old device would actually be better than shipping it in a new one.

I was more speaking to the efficiency of the device, not battery tech. As others have pointed out, battery tech moves a lot more slowly than efficiency improvements. A great example is how my iPhone 11 Pro Max has a bigger battery in it than the subsequent Pro Max models without sacrificing much in the way of battery life. That's kind of where I was going with that.

Solution? Enforce buyback program that already works.

^ This. 100%. Let manufacturers recycle and reuse. They're the ones who likely can do it best.

 

[TheLostSwede]

On android 13 and happy to stick with it. Don't do anything very exciting with it. Only use official apps etc.

Don't see software support as a big deal. I'll probably keep it till it physically wears out.

The issue is security updates, as that's where things falter.

 

[rojo]

Pixel 4A isn't that old, and battery capacity will always be limited where usage rates and types are not.

It's not like we would ban new phones, just have better options.

Plus battery tech is advancing about as fase as combustion engine tech, IE barely.

So to me a moot point.

Well, this might be our answer to that problem. Diamond battery - Wikipedia

 

[zlobby]

Well, this might be our answer to that problem. Diamond battery - Wikipedia

One small problem:

Or did I wake up in another universe today?

 

[Pumper]

Been using my Lenovo P2 since 2017. At first it held for up to 12 days, now can get up to 10 days. Don't see any reason why I should get something new. Did not have such luck with battery life on several Samsung devices.

 

[Romoredux]

I'm still using my Samsung Galaxy 7 edge...I hit the battery jackpot with it...almost a decade and I'm just now noticing the battery draining fast. But yeah nice to see laws like this in place, to protect consumers.

 

[TheLostSwede]

One small problem:

Or did I wake up in another universe today?

They work, but at super low power levels, so not something that could power a phone.